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Is the Euro finished ? on 21:15 - Jan 25 by rockinj
No.
Greece will end up leaving probably and those cheering will all be in tears in a few years when they're about 80% poorer.
I don't blame them for their anger but the reality is they needed to keep at it. They were making strides it's a shame really.
I suspect there will be a fudge in the end with the creditors making some concessions so that all sides can save face. Did Greece have any realistic chance of cutting it's debts with such high unploymemt anyway? Whatever happens the Euro will be weakened.
The Euro as currency will finish soon. It s for the financial markets to decide that one but the level of debt and almost a trillion euros being pumped into Europe again soon will ensure a crash at some point which will probably be the braking point and the end of the EU.
Good time for hols boys n gals..
[Post edited 25 Jan 2015 23:28]
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
Is the Euro finished ? on 22:33 - Jan 25 by PozuelosSideys
Most likely are concessions with the end outcome of everyone losing except those at the top who will make a packet.
Follow the money..
Follow the money?
What about the taxation Greeks failed to pay? People moan about Vodafone et al but the Greek populace wanted infrastructure, wanted their pensions... with someone else paying for it.
Any lefty group can gain popularity by proclaiming they'll reverse austerity cuts. The financial plan doesn't add up unless they either force an increase in taxation or expect others to waive the debts.
Is the Euro finished ? on 00:18 - Jan 26 by blueytheblue
Follow the money?
What about the taxation Greeks failed to pay? People moan about Vodafone et al but the Greek populace wanted infrastructure, wanted their pensions... with someone else paying for it.
Any lefty group can gain popularity by proclaiming they'll reverse austerity cuts. The financial plan doesn't add up unless they either force an increase in taxation or expect others to waive the debts.
Just look at the complete clusterf*ck Ed's buddy Hollande is making in France. It's easy to offer an alternative to cutting back. Far harder to make it stick.
Good Goverment should be prepared to make the tough decisions, not just the popular ones.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Is the Euro finished ? on 08:23 - Jan 26 with 2311 views
Syriza will regret these promises. Once the hysteria dies down, the only choice to extreme pain is full starvation. Poor buggers. The whole thing sickens me. Meanwhile the architechts of the whole sorry mess just get richer and richer. Anyone that thinks the UK won't get caught up in the whole sh1tstorm that's coming over the next decade or so is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Is the Euro finished ? on 00:18 - Jan 26 by blueytheblue
Follow the money?
What about the taxation Greeks failed to pay? People moan about Vodafone et al but the Greek populace wanted infrastructure, wanted their pensions... with someone else paying for it.
Any lefty group can gain popularity by proclaiming they'll reverse austerity cuts. The financial plan doesn't add up unless they either force an increase in taxation or expect others to waive the debts.
Sorry, by that i meant that the only winners here will be the banks. Now awash with cheap QE money. Everything is weighted in their favour and those that will pick up the entire bill will be the EU taxpayer. Doubles all round!
The Germans wont give up their competitive advantage and are far too stubborn to put the Euro out of its misery. There can only be one at the top in the Ponzi and the Germans intend for that to be them.
"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Is the Euro finished ? on 08:23 - Jan 26 by monmouth
Syriza will regret these promises. Once the hysteria dies down, the only choice to extreme pain is full starvation. Poor buggers. The whole thing sickens me. Meanwhile the architechts of the whole sorry mess just get richer and richer. Anyone that thinks the UK won't get caught up in the whole sh1tstorm that's coming over the next decade or so is living in cloud cuckoo land.
So the architects weren't the Greeks? Look at the pathetically low amount of income tax garnered by the Greek government; plenty working cash in hand and expecting the good life.
The whole Greek model was utterly unsustainable yet other EU nationals expected to bail them out.
Is the Euro finished ? on 18:17 - Jan 26 by PozuelosSideys
Sorry, by that i meant that the only winners here will be the banks. Now awash with cheap QE money. Everything is weighted in their favour and those that will pick up the entire bill will be the EU taxpayer. Doubles all round!
The Germans wont give up their competitive advantage and are far too stubborn to put the Euro out of its misery. There can only be one at the top in the Ponzi and the Germans intend for that to be them.
Good post. The German economy and banks are benefitting enormously from the Euro and QE. The weak Euro is positive for exports and young professionals are moving to Germany from Spain for example, helping to alleviate the shortage of skilled labour. Whether the German taxpayer will continue to want to foot the bill is another question.
Is the Euro finished ? on 18:35 - Jan 26 by blueytheblue
So the architects weren't the Greeks? Look at the pathetically low amount of income tax garnered by the Greek government; plenty working cash in hand and expecting the good life.
The whole Greek model was utterly unsustainable yet other EU nationals expected to bail them out.
Not the people that will be paying the price no, and those are the ones I feel sorry for. If you want the true architects of this it is those that wilfully let Greece into the Euro knowing their politicians were lying about, well, everything. I agree that the Greek culture does dampen any sympathy, but you could apply that to Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy and France.
Is the Euro finished ? on 18:59 - Jan 26 by monmouth
Not the people that will be paying the price no, and those are the ones I feel sorry for. If you want the true architects of this it is those that wilfully let Greece into the Euro knowing their politicians were lying about, well, everything. I agree that the Greek culture does dampen any sympathy, but you could apply that to Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy and France.
Depends who pays the price.
Writing off any of the debt, well it's the european taxpayer paying the price.
Call me cynical but I can't remember any Greek citizens complaining about being paid cash in hand, not paying income tax correctly if at all. People want to rail against banks, governments and whilst the Greek government was riddled with corruption, plenty were more than happy to spend good times without providing the taxation to fund it all.
I suspect people turned a blind eye to Greece to boost the Euro. Equally, I suspect plenty of Greeks were happy to embrace the Euro as a safety blanket, expecting everyone else to pick up the tab when things inevitably went wrong.
The problem is a lack of credible idea from the left with regards to running economies. Greece seemingly now want to ignore any debt and spend money they don't have. France just want to tax, tax, tax.
Personally, the EU is a failed socialist experiment. Euro wide trading block, sure I can go for that. Harmonising disparate economies, legislation? Was obviously going to be carnage.
Is the Euro finished ? on 19:08 - Jan 26 by blueytheblue
Depends who pays the price.
Writing off any of the debt, well it's the european taxpayer paying the price.
Call me cynical but I can't remember any Greek citizens complaining about being paid cash in hand, not paying income tax correctly if at all. People want to rail against banks, governments and whilst the Greek government was riddled with corruption, plenty were more than happy to spend good times without providing the taxation to fund it all.
I suspect people turned a blind eye to Greece to boost the Euro. Equally, I suspect plenty of Greeks were happy to embrace the Euro as a safety blanket, expecting everyone else to pick up the tab when things inevitably went wrong.
The problem is a lack of credible idea from the left with regards to running economies. Greece seemingly now want to ignore any debt and spend money they don't have. France just want to tax, tax, tax.
Personally, the EU is a failed socialist experiment. Euro wide trading block, sure I can go for that. Harmonising disparate economies, legislation? Was obviously going to be carnage.
Do you honestly think that the Greeks will be able to repay the debt which has increased by over 60% since the start of the austerity programme in 2009 ?
Is the Euro finished ? on 19:32 - Jan 26 by longlostjack
Do you honestly think that the Greeks will be able to repay the debt which has increased by over 60% since the start of the austerity programme in 2009 ?
Do you honestly think Greece have ever had any intention of paying the debt?
Without austerity cuts do you believe the debt would be more or less than increased by 60%?
Again, I can't recall Greeks complaining that they weren't paying enough or indeed any income tax.
Is the Euro finished ? on 19:59 - Jan 26 by Nogginthenog
Bailed out with money that doesn't really exist in the first place. Electronic numbers on a screen. Debt is an illusion perpetrated by rich fools.
Perhaps you're tangled-up in confusion.
Money does exist -- money is a medium of exchange with an agreed-upon value [p.s., no matter how pitifully small is that value].
Debt is not an illusion. It's real, and it's deadly. "Neither a borrower nor a lender be, for loan oft loses both itself and friend, and borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry" has never been more true than it is today.
A "rich fool" is an outright contradiction in terms. There is a surfeit of fools, but one cannot be both a fool and be rich. Mark Twain said that the old saw that "a fool and his money are soon parted" raises the question of how they ever got together in the first place.
What you're leaving out are the two key elements in the Euro problem: the obsessively greedy, and the functionally blind over-educated "experts" who obsessively tinker with economic and political order.
Is the Euro finished ? on 20:23 - Jan 26 by Davillin
Perhaps you're tangled-up in confusion.
Money does exist -- money is a medium of exchange with an agreed-upon value [p.s., no matter how pitifully small is that value].
Debt is not an illusion. It's real, and it's deadly. "Neither a borrower nor a lender be, for loan oft loses both itself and friend, and borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry" has never been more true than it is today.
A "rich fool" is an outright contradiction in terms. There is a surfeit of fools, but one cannot be both a fool and be rich. Mark Twain said that the old saw that "a fool and his money are soon parted" raises the question of how they ever got together in the first place.
What you're leaving out are the two key elements in the Euro problem: the obsessively greedy, and the functionally blind over-educated "experts" who obsessively tinker with economic and political order.
I stand corrected then. Shouldn't have watched that youtube film "money as debt"
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Is the Euro finished ? on 21:00 - Jan 26 with 2024 views
Is the Euro finished ? on 20:44 - Jan 26 by Nogginthenog
I stand corrected then. Shouldn't have watched that youtube film "money as debt"
Ah you mean this one?
yeah one of my favourites too...just goes to show how this whole Ponzi scheme of the Euro is rigged to benefit the rich while the poor countries are enslaved in misery..
The day will come soon on the financial markets when the Euro will come crashing down..(thats if the dollar dows nt beat it first of course)...when that happens it will be the mother of all shtstorms hehhehheheee
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
Is the Euro finished ? on 21:00 - Jan 26 by Lord_Bony
Ah you mean this one?
yeah one of my favourites too...just goes to show how this whole Ponzi scheme of the Euro is rigged to benefit the rich while the poor countries are enslaved in misery..
The day will come soon on the financial markets when the Euro will come crashing down..(thats if the dollar dows nt beat it first of course)...when that happens it will be the mother of all shtstorms hehhehheheee
Why would that be funny? (im not being a b1tch, just curious as to the logic?)
Surely if it does go all tits up, then the masses will be scrabbling around, not those who already have the wealth? You think Bertie Bigbollox Billionaire will care?
Plenty of studies floating around right now which show that the whole mess since the crash of 2008 has made the top 1% richer, and everyoen else considerably poorer.
Theres a rebalancing going on and theres not a great deal average joe can do about it. When you make the rules, you win the game.
"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Is the Euro finished ? on 21:11 - Jan 26 by PozuelosSideys
Why would that be funny? (im not being a b1tch, just curious as to the logic?)
Surely if it does go all tits up, then the masses will be scrabbling around, not those who already have the wealth? You think Bertie Bigbollox Billionaire will care?
Plenty of studies floating around right now which show that the whole mess since the crash of 2008 has made the top 1% richer, and everyoen else considerably poorer.
Theres a rebalancing going on and theres not a great deal average joe can do about it. When you make the rules, you win the game.
i was being feseetious..
The Euro will tank make no mistake...it won t be funny thats just my sick sense of humour...in fact it won t be pretty at all for the average Joe on the street...but the banksters will be raking it in whichever way it goes....
Pretty soon the whole house of cards will come down....lol
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
I've no doubt Goldman Sachs did what was in their interest. if they refused, well we'd be talking about another bank.
It wasn't the banks that forced Greece to have a bloated public sector. It wasn't the banks that forced Greece to have a laissez faire attitude to paying tax. It wasn't the banks that forced Greece to be staggering incompetent at chasing unpaid tax. It wasn't the banks that forced Greece to have a decent standard of living which they couldn't afford.
Banks are a convenient target; whilst they aren't free from blame, the root cause of the Greece debacle lies at the feet of Greek governments and populace.
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