Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Leaders debate 18:58 - Jan 26 with 2302 viewstrampie

There is talk that Plaid and the SNP will be in the leaders debate this time round, the last time Plaid and the SNP almost certainly lost votes because they werent given the air time that the big three Westminster British nationalist unionist imperialist parties were given, so much for democracy hey.

Labour will obviously have to be careful what they say but you can guarantee they don't want Plaid or the SNP there even if they cant come out and say it, the Tories want the Greens there as they are not as formidable as Plaid and the SNP and if they did alright [possibly unlikely with their leader] they would hurt Labour, Plaid and the SNP would not hurt the Tories like they could Labour but they could make both look silly, UKIP would probably hurt the Tories and they do have somebody that is good in front of a camera, Lib-Dems could lose votes to everybody or gain votes of everybody, they are slipping at the moment quite badly.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Poll: UK European Union membership referendum poll

0
Leaders debate on 05:17 - Jan 27 with 636 viewsKilkennyjack

Leaders debate on 00:37 - Jan 27 by londonlisa2001

You have to remember that they are all, at heart, fundamentally self interested.

If you truly believe that they operate for the greater good of the country as a whole even if at their own expense then you're naive.

Don't forget that for the main parties, it doesn't make any difference overall, where the pot sits between one area of the country or another. There is an overall pot, an overall tax take, and overall public expenditure budget. Why should it matter whether that is spent in Newcastle or Glasgow if it earns them a few votes and an extra seat or two? The conservatives' agenda is more one of principle than seats, but the same applies.

The main parties in Wales are all trying to make Cardiff richer at the expense of every other part of Wales as well. But until everywhere else says enough is enough and stops voting them all in like sheep every time then it will continue. The subsidy of Scotland by the rest of the UK (and the subsidy is also from Wales don't forget, who lose out massively to the Scots currently) can continue until there is enough uproar in the rest of the UK. It's beginning to stir currently on both the conservative back benches and also from Plaid. No self respecting Welsh person should have any sympathy whatsoever with the SNP and Scottish Nationalism. They proved in the referendum that they see Wales as an absolute irrelevance, and they will continue to do so if they have any power whatsoever after the election. Absolute bunch of ar**holes.
[Post edited 27 Jan 2015 0:38]


Lisa - i am sure that you understand that a number of smaller european countries are very successful, right ? You have swallowed the whole book of Westminster self preservation. There are more modern ways of governing these islands than the current 'posh boys from Eton always knows best' model. Most people will have observed that the UK government tried to scare the Scots into staying - and it worked in the older age groups only. And pretty clearly that dynamic will change, and the whole debate is far from over. I think when you see a SNP landslide north of the border in the GE then you might understand that the post war model of UK government has run its course. Even compliant carwyn is starting to ask for more for wales. English votes on english laws - of course. Viva la difference.

Beware of the Risen People

0
Leaders debate on 08:00 - Jan 27 with 617 viewstrampie

Lisa the ar**holes are the British nationalist imperialist parties that will take us to war for no reason, they filter money from the poor to the rich, they give the rich tax cuts and they allow their banker friends to ruin the country and get away with it.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Poll: UK European Union membership referendum poll

1
Leaders debate on 13:34 - Jan 27 with 589 viewsblueytheblue

Leaders debate on 08:00 - Jan 27 by trampie

Lisa the ar**holes are the British nationalist imperialist parties that will take us to war for no reason, they filter money from the poor to the rich, they give the rich tax cuts and they allow their banker friends to ruin the country and get away with it.


Has Russell Brand got a login here then?

There's an irony that people complain about a lack of engagement by politicians whilst themselves reducing their complaints down to handy sized soundbites.

EDIT: And indeed, some on the left currently being idolised are ignorant. Take Owen "the boy" Jones. There was a hysterical clip of Andrew Neil et al utterly owning him. Ranting about how income tax cuts would benefit millionaires like Cameron. All he could do was bleat that Cameron had a house worth > 1m. When pressed on how much Cameron earnt in a year, he went on about the house value.

Dumb idiot does't even know how income tax works, so how can his views on anything be taken seriously?
[Post edited 27 Jan 2015 13:36]

Poll: Alternate POTY final

0
Leaders debate on 14:05 - Jan 27 with 578 viewstrampie

Weapons of mass destruction blueytheblue, low tax - low spend economy, our gold reserves, housing stock, nationalised industries all sold off for a song, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, we have a class of working poor now, not just unemployed poor but working poor, we are heading towards more people renting than owning property as they cant afford to buy even via a mortgage, foodbanks are the norm now, the NHS is in chaos, the safety system of the welfare state is being eroded.
Bin collections are every fortnight, street lights are getting knocked off, libraries and swimming pools are being closed all because people that can afford to pay tax are not and all the lack of services and facilities being closed down is so people that should be paying more tax get tax cuts so there is more money in their pockets.

Don't get me wrong I would be far better off personally with having tax cuts as I put lots in and take little if nothing out of the system, but I don't want to see the country go to pot, I vote for what I think is best for the country and not what is best for myself personally.

The country is in a mess all thanks to the Blue, Red and Yellow Tories, Mrs Thatcher won the war, she appealed to peoples greed and that was it the post war consensus was gone, Labour then became traitors to the working class and became a right wing party also offering tax cuts and free market policies as they new they had to appeal to middle England to win an election, they should have stuck to their principles but no and now all the major parties are all singing from the same hymn sheet with little choice for the electorate even more so in England.

I cant see the lot of the working class/unemployed under class getting better only worse for many many more years to come.

As they used to say in Tooting 'Power to the People'.
[Post edited 27 Jan 2015 14:18]

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Poll: UK European Union membership referendum poll

1
Leaders debate on 14:18 - Jan 27 with 567 viewsperchrockjack

"mutli"?

Poll: Who has left Wales and why

0
Leaders debate on 14:22 - Jan 27 with 565 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Leaders debate on 14:05 - Jan 27 by trampie

Weapons of mass destruction blueytheblue, low tax - low spend economy, our gold reserves, housing stock, nationalised industries all sold off for a song, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, we have a class of working poor now, not just unemployed poor but working poor, we are heading towards more people renting than owning property as they cant afford to buy even via a mortgage, foodbanks are the norm now, the NHS is in chaos, the safety system of the welfare state is being eroded.
Bin collections are every fortnight, street lights are getting knocked off, libraries and swimming pools are being closed all because people that can afford to pay tax are not and all the lack of services and facilities being closed down is so people that should be paying more tax get tax cuts so there is more money in their pockets.

Don't get me wrong I would be far better off personally with having tax cuts as I put lots in and take little if nothing out of the system, but I don't want to see the country go to pot, I vote for what I think is best for the country and not what is best for myself personally.

The country is in a mess all thanks to the Blue, Red and Yellow Tories, Mrs Thatcher won the war, she appealed to peoples greed and that was it the post war consensus was gone, Labour then became traitors to the working class and became a right wing party also offering tax cuts and free market policies as they new they had to appeal to middle England to win an election, they should have stuck to their principles but no and now all the major parties are all singing from the same hymn sheet with little choice for the electorate even more so in England.

I cant see the lot of the working class/unemployed under class getting better only worse for many many more years to come.

As they used to say in Tooting 'Power to the People'.
[Post edited 27 Jan 2015 14:18]


Indeed

Those facts are wasted on the blind .

Poll: DO you support the uk getting involved in Syria

0
Leaders debate on 14:22 - Jan 27 with 564 viewsblueytheblue

The level of poverty in Britain is entirely relative compared to say parts of India, where there's a real example of rich benefitting at the expense of the poor. #FirstWorldPoverty involves not affording Sky for some.

Renting over owning? Renting is incredibly common on the continent, is it not? It's only the British that are so dogmatic over their castle...

NHS in chaos? That's down to the union view that no front line worker can possibly ever be incompetent. Reality is different; as my wife regularly has appointments, my dad had a stroke 20 years ago we'd had easuly at least 10 different cases where complaints could and should have been made.

Bin collections, street lights etc? Those are council decisions. Nothing to do with income tax per se.

People have always been greedy, let's be honest. During the blackout people weren't all uniting as one against the evil Nazi bombings, some were on the rob.

Labour traitors to the working class? No, the real traitors to the "working class"* are the socialists who s*** all over dreams and aspirations... you're a prole and must forever remain a prole otherwise out dogma becomes irrelevent.

* An incredibly outdated and irrelevant classification

The fact remains there are plenty of people who when unemployed look to brach out themselves, whether it's window cleaning, whatever. Problem is there is, like it or not, an underclass content to stay on benefits with zero intention of working.

Poll: Alternate POTY final

-1
Leaders debate on 14:24 - Jan 27 with 563 viewstrampie

Leaders debate on 14:18 - Jan 27 by perchrockjack

"mutli"?


''Multi'' as in multiply the tax for rich individuals and some corporations that are using tactics to avoid tax, yes but by a factor of what 0.25, 0.33, 0.5 is the question.

Some say till the pips squeak but that might be a bit excessive, but then again ?....hmm

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Poll: UK European Union membership referendum poll

0
Login to get fewer ads

Leaders debate on 14:40 - Jan 27 with 554 viewsblueytheblue

Leaders debate on 14:24 - Jan 27 by trampie

''Multi'' as in multiply the tax for rich individuals and some corporations that are using tactics to avoid tax, yes but by a factor of what 0.25, 0.33, 0.5 is the question.

Some say till the pips squeak but that might be a bit excessive, but then again ?....hmm


Tax avoidance isn't illegal.

Tax evasion is.

Big difference.

Like it or not, taxation is an incredibly complex issue. Why? Because the taxation rules are so bloated and all over the place that it boils down to interpretation; indeed, a lot of the time that needs to be defined via court ruling.

HMRC always have their view, which feeds into estimations of tax not paid. Let's not forget that's the same HMRC who are the most two-faced people in the business.

Let's say you provide services, receiving renumeration through a scheme in the Seychelles. You've done that for 10 years with no problem as it's defined as being legal, or more accurately not defined as illegal.

Rabble rousers complain, law gets changed. It's now illegal.

Guess what? HMRC can and do persue back up to, from memory, 10-20 years. So they can demand tax and penalties for the time your scheme was legal ( or more accurately, not illegal ).

Corporations get accused of treating tax as a game; HMRC do precisely the same thing. Both sides have little regard for determining the actual amount due...

Poll: Alternate POTY final

0
Leaders debate on 14:52 - Jan 27 with 552 viewsLeonisGod

Leaders debate on 08:00 - Jan 27 by trampie

Lisa the ar**holes are the British nationalist imperialist parties that will take us to war for no reason, they filter money from the poor to the rich, they give the rich tax cuts and they allow their banker friends to ruin the country and get away with it.


They're all the same. I see them in action as part of my job and they are all the same. There are some notable exceptions of course, and the Independents are often less self-serving. I have no affinity towards any of them, but surprisingly the worse in in the mainstream in this regard are Labour. The best the Lib Dems (although pretty impotent when it comes to being able to do anything, but their hearts are more often than not in the right place). The UKIPs I've come into contact with have all been @rseholes. Everyone will let the financial institutes get away with it - we're collateral damage that is seen as justified to keep the City running. Just my opinion and others may see it differently of course.
0
Leaders debate on 15:02 - Jan 27 with 545 viewsblueytheblue

Leaders debate on 14:52 - Jan 27 by LeonisGod

They're all the same. I see them in action as part of my job and they are all the same. There are some notable exceptions of course, and the Independents are often less self-serving. I have no affinity towards any of them, but surprisingly the worse in in the mainstream in this regard are Labour. The best the Lib Dems (although pretty impotent when it comes to being able to do anything, but their hearts are more often than not in the right place). The UKIPs I've come into contact with have all been @rseholes. Everyone will let the financial institutes get away with it - we're collateral damage that is seen as justified to keep the City running. Just my opinion and others may see it differently of course.


Labour aren't surprising in that aspect though. I mean, there's little real interest in solving social inequality because if it ever went, well there would be no need for Labour or real socialists, would there?

Poll: Alternate POTY final

0
Leaders debate on 15:02 - Jan 27 with 545 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Leaders debate on 14:52 - Jan 27 by LeonisGod

They're all the same. I see them in action as part of my job and they are all the same. There are some notable exceptions of course, and the Independents are often less self-serving. I have no affinity towards any of them, but surprisingly the worse in in the mainstream in this regard are Labour. The best the Lib Dems (although pretty impotent when it comes to being able to do anything, but their hearts are more often than not in the right place). The UKIPs I've come into contact with have all been @rseholes. Everyone will let the financial institutes get away with it - we're collateral damage that is seen as justified to keep the City running. Just my opinion and others may see it differently of course.


The lib dems have some very good local councilers , they were starting to do ok untill clegg f@cked it right up for them ..

Iceland had enough of it , Greece have just followed & more will .

Poll: DO you support the uk getting involved in Syria

0
Leaders debate on 15:05 - Jan 27 with 543 viewsblueytheblue

Leaders debate on 15:02 - Jan 27 by oh_tommy_tommy

The lib dems have some very good local councilers , they were starting to do ok untill clegg f@cked it right up for them ..

Iceland had enough of it , Greece have just followed & more will .


Greece have rabble roused with zero solutions. Now that's a naked power grab in all it's glory.

Let's see how well the reversal of austerity there - which seemed to be working - goes given Greece haven't got the money to pay for all these wonderful changes. Can't see people being willing to bail them out - again.

Poll: Alternate POTY final

0
Leaders debate on 15:09 - Jan 27 with 541 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Leaders debate on 15:05 - Jan 27 by blueytheblue

Greece have rabble roused with zero solutions. Now that's a naked power grab in all it's glory.

Let's see how well the reversal of austerity there - which seemed to be working - goes given Greece haven't got the money to pay for all these wonderful changes. Can't see people being willing to bail them out - again.


Do you think the people of this country, you & I ,will bail the banks out again ?

Poll: DO you support the uk getting involved in Syria

0
Leaders debate on 15:19 - Jan 27 with 537 viewsblueytheblue

Leaders debate on 15:09 - Jan 27 by oh_tommy_tommy

Do you think the people of this country, you & I ,will bail the banks out again ?


Well, that does have zero to do with Greece....

To a degree banks will always have to be bailed out should things go wrong regardless of the actions of groups within the banks. Allow some of them to go bust, people then lose out after all.

Regardless of what happened, would you argue millions of Brits should lose their savings by not bailing out, for example, Natwest?

I always found it amusing Fred Godwin was villified, especially by a Labour government who approved his payoff, whereas Nick Leeson didn't receive anywhere as near as much venom due to being "working class made good".

Poll: Alternate POTY final

0
Leaders debate on 15:44 - Jan 27 with 490 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Leaders debate on 15:19 - Jan 27 by blueytheblue

Well, that does have zero to do with Greece....

To a degree banks will always have to be bailed out should things go wrong regardless of the actions of groups within the banks. Allow some of them to go bust, people then lose out after all.

Regardless of what happened, would you argue millions of Brits should lose their savings by not bailing out, for example, Natwest?

I always found it amusing Fred Godwin was villified, especially by a Labour government who approved his payoff, whereas Nick Leeson didn't receive anywhere as near as much venom due to being "working class made good".


And there's the point

They should have been jailed just like leeson.


Leeson "working class "

Class has nothing to do with it .

Class is the divide.

Class of all walks of life need to Stand up to these cuts in the name of Austerity .
[Post edited 27 Jan 2015 15:47]

Poll: DO you support the uk getting involved in Syria

0
Leaders debate on 16:13 - Jan 27 with 480 viewsskippyjack

Leaders debate on 14:05 - Jan 27 by trampie

Weapons of mass destruction blueytheblue, low tax - low spend economy, our gold reserves, housing stock, nationalised industries all sold off for a song, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, we have a class of working poor now, not just unemployed poor but working poor, we are heading towards more people renting than owning property as they cant afford to buy even via a mortgage, foodbanks are the norm now, the NHS is in chaos, the safety system of the welfare state is being eroded.
Bin collections are every fortnight, street lights are getting knocked off, libraries and swimming pools are being closed all because people that can afford to pay tax are not and all the lack of services and facilities being closed down is so people that should be paying more tax get tax cuts so there is more money in their pockets.

Don't get me wrong I would be far better off personally with having tax cuts as I put lots in and take little if nothing out of the system, but I don't want to see the country go to pot, I vote for what I think is best for the country and not what is best for myself personally.

The country is in a mess all thanks to the Blue, Red and Yellow Tories, Mrs Thatcher won the war, she appealed to peoples greed and that was it the post war consensus was gone, Labour then became traitors to the working class and became a right wing party also offering tax cuts and free market policies as they new they had to appeal to middle England to win an election, they should have stuck to their principles but no and now all the major parties are all singing from the same hymn sheet with little choice for the electorate even more so in England.

I cant see the lot of the working class/unemployed under class getting better only worse for many many more years to come.

As they used to say in Tooting 'Power to the People'.
[Post edited 27 Jan 2015 14:18]


No Trampie.. they're targeting specific areas and dumbing people down.. I don't choose my fate.. other people choose mine.. just because i won't play the game.

The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds.
Poll: Best Swans Player

0
Leaders debate on 16:50 - Jan 27 with 471 viewsblueytheblue

Leaders debate on 15:44 - Jan 27 by oh_tommy_tommy

And there's the point

They should have been jailed just like leeson.


Leeson "working class "

Class has nothing to do with it .

Class is the divide.

Class of all walks of life need to Stand up to these cuts in the name of Austerity .
[Post edited 27 Jan 2015 15:47]


"in the name of Austerity"?

You're aware of the figures for income tax collected by Greece, right? Do you absolve the Greek public and authorities of any responsibility for spending way beyond their means, expecting others to pick up the bill?

Poll: Alternate POTY final

0
Leaders debate on 17:18 - Jan 27 with 462 viewsPozuelosSideys

Leaders debate on 15:19 - Jan 27 by blueytheblue

Well, that does have zero to do with Greece....

To a degree banks will always have to be bailed out should things go wrong regardless of the actions of groups within the banks. Allow some of them to go bust, people then lose out after all.

Regardless of what happened, would you argue millions of Brits should lose their savings by not bailing out, for example, Natwest?

I always found it amusing Fred Godwin was villified, especially by a Labour government who approved his payoff, whereas Nick Leeson didn't receive anywhere as near as much venom due to being "working class made good".


Did you intentionally choose Natwest there?

FWIW, the biggest mistake and watered-down policy that was meant to be made but never went through was ring-fencing of retail banks like Natwest. Casino banking IB's should be allowed to go under, Retail banks should not. But of course, theres not much money to be made with Retail banks.

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

0
Leaders debate on 17:23 - Jan 27 with 460 viewsblueytheblue

Leaders debate on 17:18 - Jan 27 by PozuelosSideys

Did you intentionally choose Natwest there?

FWIW, the biggest mistake and watered-down policy that was meant to be made but never went through was ring-fencing of retail banks like Natwest. Casino banking IB's should be allowed to go under, Retail banks should not. But of course, theres not much money to be made with Retail banks.


First bank name that came into my head given it was a hypothetical example.

Agree with your point about the ringfencing. Retail banking has to be kept separate.

Poll: Alternate POTY final

0
Leaders debate on 18:48 - Jan 27 with 440 viewsPozuelosSideys

Leaders debate on 17:23 - Jan 27 by blueytheblue

First bank name that came into my head given it was a hypothetical example.

Agree with your point about the ringfencing. Retail banking has to be kept separate.


Ahh Natwest effectively bailed-out under the RBS banner. Hence the question.

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

0
Leaders debate on 19:00 - Jan 27 with 435 viewsexiledclaseboy

Anyhoo, back on topic. Cameron's people now seem to be positioning themselves to refuse to take part in the debates unless the DUP is involved. The f*cking idiot.

Poll: Tory leader

0
Leaders debate on 19:39 - Jan 27 with 416 viewsjacabertawe

Leaders debate on 19:00 - Jan 27 by exiledclaseboy

Anyhoo, back on topic. Cameron's people now seem to be positioning themselves to refuse to take part in the debates unless the DUP is involved. The f*cking idiot.


Cameron's next excuse will be The Monster Raving Loony Party.

Britishness...is a political synonym for Englishness which extends English culture over the Scots, the Welsh, and the Irish. - Gwynfor Evans

0
Leaders debate on 19:40 - Jan 27 with 415 viewsexiledclaseboy

Leaders debate on 19:39 - Jan 27 by jacabertawe

Cameron's next excuse will be The Monster Raving Loony Party.


He is desperate for these debates not to happen.

Poll: Tory leader

0
Leaders debate on 22:46 - Jan 27 with 389 viewslondonlisa2001

Leaders debate on 05:17 - Jan 27 by Kilkennyjack

Lisa - i am sure that you understand that a number of smaller european countries are very successful, right ? You have swallowed the whole book of Westminster self preservation. There are more modern ways of governing these islands than the current 'posh boys from Eton always knows best' model. Most people will have observed that the UK government tried to scare the Scots into staying - and it worked in the older age groups only. And pretty clearly that dynamic will change, and the whole debate is far from over. I think when you see a SNP landslide north of the border in the GE then you might understand that the post war model of UK government has run its course. Even compliant carwyn is starting to ask for more for wales. English votes on english laws - of course. Viva la difference.


I do indeed.

But the SNP didn't actually want to go it alone.

They wanted to do the political equivalent of moving into a tent at the bottom of Mam & Dad's garden. Keep sterling (so that the Bank of England would have to be the guarantor of last resort for their debts), keep the UK defence forces, keep the UK Public sector jobs all on top of made up nonsense on North Sea Oil revenues which by now would have be blown out of the water.

There are indeed other ways of governing - one of them is not determined by a budget drawn up on the back of a fag packet while refusing to accept responsibility and instead just cherry picking the good bits. If anyone was scaremongering during that election it was the SNP.
0
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© FansNetwork 2024