| Swans PL future 15:00 - Feb 25 with 1981 views | sully49 |
As a matter for discussion purposes only, do you think we are going to continue our top 10 status every season or are we going to be satisfied to have long-term, middle of the table whatever, as Villa, Stoke and Sunderland, doing just enough to stay out of the relegation zone every season?
I believe that we will attempt to be better than the previous season, buying within our wage structure, never buying big named players with life changing weekly wages, looking instead for the bargains out there, which we are very good at, unless of course we get a cash investment from outside parties.
Sorry to make the last sentence as it has been superbly debated in another thread, but I needed it to make my point. |  |
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| Swans PL future on 15:09 - Feb 25 with 1967 views | airedale |
A point I'd make following recent events is, to date we have had the benefit of a superb senior management structure which may end in the not too distant future.
If indeed this occurs soon (I for one wouldn't fancy the responsibility of running a £100m pa T/O business), because certain people want to retire from their day to day managerial involvement with the club, the ongoing success of the club will depend on the efficacy of the new incumbents. |  | | |
| Swans PL future on 16:11 - Feb 25 with 1902 views | sully49 |
| Swans PL future on 15:09 - Feb 25 by airedale |
A point I'd make following recent events is, to date we have had the benefit of a superb senior management structure which may end in the not too distant future.
If indeed this occurs soon (I for one wouldn't fancy the responsibility of running a £100m pa T/O business), because certain people want to retire from their day to day managerial involvement with the club, the ongoing success of the club will depend on the efficacy of the new incumbents. |
That will make us an ideal candidate for an outside "take over" for sure, also I do know that there is absolutely nothing we could do to influence anything. | |
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| Swans PL future on 16:20 - Feb 25 with 1887 views | Badgeman |
A club of our size and structure should never be unhappy with finishing between 14th and 8th every year until football ends. The club makes healthy profits as long as it lives within its means and finishes inside this bracket.
The money needs to be spent on improving facilities including the Youth structure, stadium facilities and training facilities. This will ensure that the club is in the best position to compete in terms of developing and attracting players as well as fans.
The gap between 6th and 8th is almost as big as the gap between the Premier League and the Championship. Clubs like Spurs and Liverpool spend countless millions that the club will never have without a big investor and what does it achieve? A few higher places in the league is all. Push too fast and you will end up Like Leeds Utd for they are a massive club.
Swansea City will only be as big as Spurs, Everton, Liverpool, and the rest if it cements its place in the top flight for decades and wins silverware like the FA cup and the League Cup. The best and most achievable way to do that is steady growth that ensures relegation is less likely every year.
To move from where we are now into those few league places higher would require countless millions of pounds and 20 00 more fans. It aint happening any time soon nor should we demand it. |  |
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| Swans PL future on 16:26 - Feb 25 with 1873 views | Jack_y_Jwc |
Huw Jenkins believes we can get to the Champions Lg, so I presume he won't be happy with stagnating.
Personally, I'm more than happy with where we are but should do better in the cups. |  |
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| Swans PL future on 17:25 - Feb 25 with 1813 views | libertine |
when did our Huw say that? |  | | |
| Swans PL future on 17:51 - Feb 25 with 1781 views | Nookiejack |
When you comment 'about buying within our wage structure' and 'never buying big name players' is that also to do with your understanding of FFP rules?
As my understanding is:- (1) your wage structure can only increase by £4m per season plus additional commercial revenue - less costs of generating the commercial revenue.
(2) also you can't make cumulative losses of £15m over three seasons.
.....so I don't think FFP would allow us to buy big name players?
Under FFP it appears you have got to grow organically and incrementally. Unless you can find a pure philanthropist out there who is going to inject equity (which essentially means the club doesn't have to repay them the cash they have injected into the club - in contrast to a Loan which the club has to repay - along with respective interest due) and there doesn't seem be too many of these out there - who would provide equity to splash the cash on players.
Also if you take a look at Chelsea - I don't think Abramovich is planning to inject equity to buy big name players in the future - as that is why Chelsea now seem to be complaining about FFP - given Man U have considerable advantage due to their commercial revenue.
Do you have a different view of FFP? | | | |
| Swans PL future on 18:02 - Feb 25 with 1759 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Swans PL future on 17:51 - Feb 25 by Nookiejack |
When you comment 'about buying within our wage structure' and 'never buying big name players' is that also to do with your understanding of FFP rules?
As my understanding is:- (1) your wage structure can only increase by £4m per season plus additional commercial revenue - less costs of generating the commercial revenue.
(2) also you can't make cumulative losses of £15m over three seasons.
.....so I don't think FFP would allow us to buy big name players?
Under FFP it appears you have got to grow organically and incrementally. Unless you can find a pure philanthropist out there who is going to inject equity (which essentially means the club doesn't have to repay them the cash they have injected into the club - in contrast to a Loan which the club has to repay - along with respective interest due) and there doesn't seem be too many of these out there - who would provide equity to splash the cash on players.
Also if you take a look at Chelsea - I don't think Abramovich is planning to inject equity to buy big name players in the future - as that is why Chelsea now seem to be complaining about FFP - given Man U have considerable advantage due to their commercial revenue.
Do you have a different view of FFP? |
the wages bit doesn't change if an owner injects equity or loans - that's why Chelsea are complaining. It's not that Abramovitch won't put in equity, it's that it makes no difference.
However, the new TV deal all goes towards being able to increase salaries - that's straight onto the allowed amount which is why people are concerned it will all just go on salaries.
We can buy 'big name players' in a few ways. One - by replacing current big name players (hence get people like Michu off the books will be crucial - watch out for loans of top players if clubs can't sell them). Two - by increasing commercial income (there should be some movement here for us as we have sod all commercial income at the movement outside the TV deals). I assume that the extra money you get for finishing higher in the league since it is pat of the TV deal counts as commercial income as well so that will have an impact as well.
All in all though. the whole things is skewed towards Man Utd, Madrid etc, which, I guess is the point. | | | |
| Swans PL future on 18:12 - Feb 25 with 1729 views | Nookiejack |
| Swans PL future on 18:02 - Feb 25 by londonlisa2001 |
the wages bit doesn't change if an owner injects equity or loans - that's why Chelsea are complaining. It's not that Abramovitch won't put in equity, it's that it makes no difference.
However, the new TV deal all goes towards being able to increase salaries - that's straight onto the allowed amount which is why people are concerned it will all just go on salaries.
We can buy 'big name players' in a few ways. One - by replacing current big name players (hence get people like Michu off the books will be crucial - watch out for loans of top players if clubs can't sell them). Two - by increasing commercial income (there should be some movement here for us as we have sod all commercial income at the movement outside the TV deals). I assume that the extra money you get for finishing higher in the league since it is pat of the TV deal counts as commercial income as well so that will have an impact as well.
All in all though. the whole things is skewed towards Man Utd, Madrid etc, which, I guess is the point. |
Thanks for clarifying Londonlis2001
I do go on about FFP in my various posts - as think people should consider that it is the environment that we are currently living in. | | | |
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| Swans PL future on 18:35 - Feb 25 with 1687 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Swans PL future on 18:12 - Feb 25 by Nookiejack |
Thanks for clarifying Londonlis2001
I do go on about FFP in my various posts - as think people should consider that it is the environment that we are currently living in. |
Except most of the big teams seem to be able to find ways around it, especially the Debt angle.
Those that have fallen foul of the rule in the past do appear to be more careful though. | | | |
| Swans PL future on 19:08 - Feb 25 with 1646 views | Nookiejack |
| Swans PL future on 18:02 - Feb 25 by londonlisa2001 |
the wages bit doesn't change if an owner injects equity or loans - that's why Chelsea are complaining. It's not that Abramovitch won't put in equity, it's that it makes no difference.
However, the new TV deal all goes towards being able to increase salaries - that's straight onto the allowed amount which is why people are concerned it will all just go on salaries.
We can buy 'big name players' in a few ways. One - by replacing current big name players (hence get people like Michu off the books will be crucial - watch out for loans of top players if clubs can't sell them). Two - by increasing commercial income (there should be some movement here for us as we have sod all commercial income at the movement outside the TV deals). I assume that the extra money you get for finishing higher in the league since it is pat of the TV deal counts as commercial income as well so that will have an impact as well.
All in all though. the whole things is skewed towards Man Utd, Madrid etc, which, I guess is the point. |
Londonlisa2002,
Just one further point of clarification on FFP.
Are you totally 'straight jacketed' by max increase in players' wages of £4m plus increase in commercial revenue?
I ask this as I read that owners could inject equity to cover losses. So could you increase the wages by amounts above £4m - leading to losses - but then inject equity to cover those losses?
Or are you simply not allowed to increase the wage bill by more than £4m plus increase in commercial revenue (per season) - as that is extremely interesting if that is the case?
Also Commercial Director position seems to be a key role in the club going forward - given this FFP rule? | | | |
| Swans PL future on 19:12 - Feb 25 with 1638 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Swans PL future on 19:08 - Feb 25 by Nookiejack |
Londonlisa2002,
Just one further point of clarification on FFP.
Are you totally 'straight jacketed' by max increase in players' wages of £4m plus increase in commercial revenue?
I ask this as I read that owners could inject equity to cover losses. So could you increase the wages by amounts above £4m - leading to losses - but then inject equity to cover those losses?
Or are you simply not allowed to increase the wage bill by more than £4m plus increase in commercial revenue (per season) - as that is extremely interesting if that is the case?
Also Commercial Director position seems to be a key role in the club going forward - given this FFP rule? |
my understanding is that losses rules and salaries rules are two separate things.
Losses rules are changed by equity injections- change from £15m losses cumulatively over 3 years to £105m cumulatively if owner injects equity to cover them.
However, salaries rules are not changed by method of funding. £4m increase per year plus commercial income increases. Can't get round that by equity investment (hence why clubs can't ever do a Man City any longer - a rich sugar daddy can't invest £100m to buy a team). [Post edited 25 Feb 2015 19:13]
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| Swans PL future on 19:20 - Feb 25 with 1624 views | sully49 |
| Swans PL future on 18:35 - Feb 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
Except most of the big teams seem to be able to find ways around it, especially the Debt angle.
Those that have fallen foul of the rule in the past do appear to be more careful though. |
Absolutely but that's the way it has always be and it isn't going to charge any day soon. I believe that a sizable chunk of the increased Tv monies next season also. We are probably the top in the PL to use our equity on the infrastructure.
The naming right of our stadium needs to gather pace and why don't we look for someone to sponsor our training facilities?
I can't help but wonder what will our ST's will be next season???? | |
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| Swans PL future on 19:20 - Feb 25 with 1621 views | Nookiejack |
| Swans PL future on 19:12 - Feb 25 by londonlisa2001 |
my understanding is that losses rules and salaries rules are two separate things.
Losses rules are changed by equity injections- change from £15m losses cumulatively over 3 years to £105m cumulatively if owner injects equity to cover them.
However, salaries rules are not changed by method of funding. £4m increase per year plus commercial income increases. Can't get round that by equity investment (hence why clubs can't ever do a Man City any longer - a rich sugar daddy can't invest £100m to buy a team). [Post edited 25 Feb 2015 19:13]
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Wow - that's very, very interesting.
Thanks once again | | | |
| Swans PL future on 19:22 - Feb 25 with 1614 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
| Swans PL future on 16:26 - Feb 25 by Jack_y_Jwc |
Huw Jenkins believes we can get to the Champions Lg, so I presume he won't be happy with stagnating.
Personally, I'm more than happy with where we are but should do better in the cups. |
As he should be.
To anyone who thinks Champions League is a crazy pipe dream, I'd argue that we've already made 90% of the journey (based on where Swansea City was in 2003). |  |
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| Swans PL future on 19:26 - Feb 25 with 1605 views | LeonisGod |
| Swans PL future on 15:09 - Feb 25 by airedale |
A point I'd make following recent events is, to date we have had the benefit of a superb senior management structure which may end in the not too distant future.
If indeed this occurs soon (I for one wouldn't fancy the responsibility of running a £100m pa T/O business), because certain people want to retire from their day to day managerial involvement with the club, the ongoing success of the club will depend on the efficacy of the new incumbents. |
This x100. We are where we are because of the continued knack of the board (Huw?) to get the big decisions right. Contrast that to Tan, the Venkys, Fernandez, that Leeds bloke etc if you want an example of how important good management of the club is BEFORE you get to the manager.
As for the OP, I'd be peed off if we ended up like Villa and Sunderland. But happy if we can replicate Stoke. Villa and S'land are perpetual relegation candidates these days.
IF we can keep mid table, that will be great. No problem aiming higher, but we need to remember we are small and history is not on our side. Plenty of clubs larger than us have slipped from the top league after a fair few seasons up here (Bolton, Charlton, Wigan, Wolves?, Fulham...). |  | | |
| Swans PL future on 21:31 - Feb 25 with 1498 views | Edmundo |
| Swans PL future on 19:20 - Feb 25 by sully49 |
Absolutely but that's the way it has always be and it isn't going to charge any day soon. I believe that a sizable chunk of the increased Tv monies next season also. We are probably the top in the PL to use our equity on the infrastructure.
The naming right of our stadium needs to gather pace and why don't we look for someone to sponsor our training facilities?
I can't help but wonder what will our ST's will be next season???? |
Our rep on the board said cheaper ST's next season ðŸ‘
Which is nice, loads more seats as well, so get your name down now 😉 |  |
| Swansea City-Officially the best football team in Wales-FACT |
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| Swans PL future on 09:31 - Feb 26 with 1343 views | Jack_y_Jwc |
| Swans PL future on 17:25 - Feb 25 by libertine |
when did our Huw say that? |
It was in the transcript from the trust forum last week I think | |
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| Swans PL future on 10:42 - Feb 26 with 1283 views | perchrockjack |
I l say this
We pretty unique and what happens/happened at other clubs doesn't necessarily apply to us.
No reason why we cannot finish top six.
Only clubs we cannot overtake IMO are Citeh, chelski,arse,,manure, for sure, and probably Liverpool/Spurs. Its a matter of of consistency on the field and off it..oh yeah and have fans who believe not ones who doubt.
Biggest issue for me is our lack of silverware and why our worst result this season so far was at Blackburn- a pretty disgusting day.
FA CUP PLEASE | |
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| Swans PL future on 17:34 - Feb 26 with 1143 views | RogueTrooper |
I think we are doing it organically, by imprving the academy and training. Southampton have shown this season, that producing players is the best way clubs of our size can generate the income to compete with the big boys. It is a good way of future proofing the club against possible hard times ahead.
The top clubs will fluctuate over time, two of them could have a stinker of a season and we could have a blinder. Not forgetting that the Europa league is another avenue towards champions league, it was a lost oppurtunity going out of the FA cup this year considering how many of the big boys are now out and we are pretty much guaranteed safety, we could have given it a good go and winning it is a reachable goal for one of the current 10 best teams in the country.
In the meantime, consolodate what we have, invest wisely in players (Cork and Naughton are good examples) as well as taking the odd punt on a Bony type extravagance (Which paid off well for us) and once we start churning out future stars, we will have the foundations for a surprise assault on the big boys. |  |
| "If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training, you will be a weapon. You will be a minister of death praying for war. But until that day you are pukes. You are the lowest form of life on Earth. You are not even human furcking beings! You are nothing but unorganized, grabastic pieces of amphibian sh1t! Because I am hard, you will not like me. But the more you hate me the more you will learn." |
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| Swans PL future on 21:16 - Feb 26 with 1049 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Swans PL future on 17:34 - Feb 26 by RogueTrooper |
I think we are doing it organically, by imprving the academy and training. Southampton have shown this season, that producing players is the best way clubs of our size can generate the income to compete with the big boys. It is a good way of future proofing the club against possible hard times ahead.
The top clubs will fluctuate over time, two of them could have a stinker of a season and we could have a blinder. Not forgetting that the Europa league is another avenue towards champions league, it was a lost oppurtunity going out of the FA cup this year considering how many of the big boys are now out and we are pretty much guaranteed safety, we could have given it a good go and winning it is a reachable goal for one of the current 10 best teams in the country.
In the meantime, consolodate what we have, invest wisely in players (Cork and Naughton are good examples) as well as taking the odd punt on a Bony type extravagance (Which paid off well for us) and once we start churning out future stars, we will have the foundations for a surprise assault on the big boys. |
I agree. Our relatively huge academy investment needs to pay back at some point. We are a business afterall. I think we can be greatly encouraged by the step change improvements we have seen over the last 15 months at the academy, just need the players to start to break through now. Its a big part of Sir Huwberts master plan. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Swans PL future on 00:51 - Feb 27 with 981 views | Nookiejack |
| Swans PL future on 21:16 - Feb 26 by Kilkennyjack |
I agree. Our relatively huge academy investment needs to pay back at some point. We are a business afterall. I think we can be greatly encouraged by the step change improvements we have seen over the last 15 months at the academy, just need the players to start to break through now. Its a big part of Sir Huwberts master plan. |
Yes but let's be realistic a big difference in standard between Development League South playing Colchester U21s and the Premier League.
We really need to close the gap in standard by achieving top level academy status - so are playing likes of Chelsea U21s each week. Will also mean that we need to recruit better quality youngsters - otherwise will get stuffed each week - which wouldn't look good if you get my drift. | | | |
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