| Cardiff's accounts are out 13:57 - Feb 26 with 19339 views | NeathJack |
This should be fun  |  | | |  |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:45 - Feb 26 with 1973 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:50 - Feb 26 by NeathJack |
They won't be included in these accounts though so if you're expecting the next set to look a whole lot better, you may need to think again as this spending will be included in them.
I thought that was fairly obvious and wouldn't need to point it out. |
Well, given the point I was making was related to the cost saving measures, hey ho. The combined fees are less than the wages saved and fees received, so it all offsets.
Again, obvious. |  |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:59 - Feb 26 with 1926 views | SwansNZ |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:20 - Feb 26 by Nookiejack |
So 1. will be our total cumulative share of the running costs - if this is the case.
Remember in making this decision - it is the incremental naming rights revenue from ownership - not total revenue from naming rights that counts. As you would assume we would still earn naming rights revenue - even if we didn't own the stadium.
You would probably also need to understand impact of Ospreys on that we share the costs with them now - but assume we would charge them rent of we owned the stadium. |
Personally, I’d rather see funds going towards an extension, not the purchase of the stadium. |  |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 20:05 - Feb 26 with 1910 views | Uxbridge |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:30 - Feb 26 by Dr_Winston |
It's hard to work out what Vinny's end game is.
Admin costs have rocketed, so he could be trying to recoup a bit of cash that way. Wonder if there's any way he can sell the rotten husk of the club whilst retaining ownership of the stadium and charging FC Cardiff 2016 rent to play there. |
It's part of his end game for sure. Much made of the covenant in place but the local council have bent over backwards to subsidise the club previously and I don't doubt if Tan said either you remove the covenant or the club folds they'll do so.
He's just running it really really badly. Any other business and they'd go under. It's completely unsustainable. |  |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 20:13 - Feb 26 with 1887 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 20:05 - Feb 26 by Uxbridge |
It's part of his end game for sure. Much made of the covenant in place but the local council have bent over backwards to subsidise the club previously and I don't doubt if Tan said either you remove the covenant or the club folds they'll do so.
He's just running it really really badly. Any other business and they'd go under. It's completely unsustainable. |
Council have subsidised the club? Bent over backwards? Not really.
Agree the spending before January was unsustainable - at least, the money wasted on transfers was unsustainable. Purchases need to be cuter ones.
There's no quick fix, but Slade's approach is the sensible one long term. Cut the wage bill. Just seems it took a long time for that lesson to be taken on board. | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 20:15 - Feb 26 with 1877 views | Uxbridge |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 20:13 - Feb 26 by blueytheblue |
Council have subsidised the club? Bent over backwards? Not really.
Agree the spending before January was unsustainable - at least, the money wasted on transfers was unsustainable. Purchases need to be cuter ones.
There's no quick fix, but Slade's approach is the sensible one long term. Cut the wage bill. Just seems it took a long time for that lesson to be taken on board. |
Gifted land for the stadium, land of sport or whatever it was, planning permission at every turn etc. They've been a delight. | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 20:52 - Feb 26 with 1802 views | Nookiejack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:59 - Feb 26 by SwansNZ |
Personally, I’d rather see funds going towards an extension, not the purchase of the stadium. |
The thing is above calculations may actually show that stadium purchase is cash generative - so can end up doing stadium expansion as well.
I haven't made up mind until someone provides the analysis. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:08 - Feb 26 with 1766 views | SwansNZ |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 20:52 - Feb 26 by Nookiejack |
The thing is above calculations may actually show that stadium purchase is cash generative - so can end up doing stadium expansion as well.
I haven't made up mind until someone provides the analysis. |
Can we really afford to purchase the stadium and build an extension, whilst still providing funds for the playing staff? I think not — but it gives the want away shareholders an excuse, eh. | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:09 - Feb 26 with 1758 views | Pacemaker |
From the Cardiff Supporters a Trust
Trust board member and accountant, Keith Morgan, gives his take on the club’s latest accounts with a detailed examination of the financial position.
Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited has today filed their statutory accounts for the year to May 31, 2014. They do not make pleasant reading.
Despite record income for the club of £83.1m in the year (2013 income £17.3m) , principally due to the huge benefit derived from Sky and other broadcasting income (up from £4.9m in 2013 to £64.0m) , it still made an overall loss for the year of £12m.
The overall result is very disappointing — if a club can`t make money in the Premier League with all the broadcasting riches that brings , then when can it?
There are some items in the accounts which do go some way to explaining why a loss was made in the year.
1) The club obviously had to pay more in wages for a squad of Premier League players compared to the previous Championship squad cost (the total wage bill went up £20.4m from £32.8m to £53.2m).
2) The club bought new players at a total cost of £45.8m in the season. It is normal policy in football clubs to write this cost off equally over the length of the contract involved. So the cost in the 2014 accounts of wht is called amortisation of those contracts at £14.5m does not seem unreasonable (£45m over a three year contract period) but was considerably up on the 2013 figure of £7.4m because we bought more expensive players in transfer value terms.
At the end of each year , the club then has to do a further review of its assets to estimate if they have the same real value as their value in the books. In this case , the club decided that the playing squad at 31 May 2014 had a value of £6.6m less than their value calculated as above , so made a further write off in the accounts (the 2013 comparative figure was £4.0m).
3) The club lost £5.1m on player sales in the year (2013 only £345k). Players who were in the books at the time at a combined value of £8.2m were sold for only £3.1m.
As at May 31, 2014 , the total value of the playing squad was recorded as £25.2m (not unreasonable if this included the likes of Medel and Caulker so shouldn`t be much of an overall loss on players for the current season.
4) During the year the club spent £11.8m on the Ninian Stand extension. As with the playing squad above , the club then has to do a year end review to estimate if that is a fair value. It decided it was not , by nearly a half , so there was a further write-off in the accounts of £5.5m, or nearly half of what it had cost.
5) The club had “exceptional costs”( i.e those which don`t relate to normal business activities) of £2.0m . This was to do with the cost of terminating the contracts of Malky Mackay (and his support staff?) part way through the season.This is becoming a bit of a habit for the club as it also had £1.6m of such costs in 2011-12 in terminating the contracts of Dave Jones etc. There will , of course be further costs to the club in the 2015 in respect of terminating the contracts of OGS etc thsi season. This cost is becoming more “normal” for the club than “exceptional” in recent years.
6) On the good news front , the club again benefited from a finance cost credit (as opposed to a cost) in the year , but at £1.6m rather than the higher figure of £5.3m in 2013. This relates to a mix of interest charged by some lenders and interest waived by Vincent Tan, who charged no interest on his loans to the club throughout the year. I have no analysis of the split of this from the club , including an answer to when and where VT`s interest was charged in the accounts to enable it to be waived in 2013/14.(you can`t credit back interest if it wasn`t charged in the first place).
7) A strange note to the accounts appears for the first time this year (it didn`t appear in the 2013 accounts even though the 2014 accounts give a comparative figure for that year). This states that a very large amount of £1.68m (2013 £758k) was paid in the year to “key management personnel”. The club does not have to disclose , for confidentiality purposes , who these people are (they are not directors ) but my guess that this is a new accounting disclosure requirement and relates to the likes of OGS his predecessor as manager — not bad work if you can get it!! (I suspect Russell Slade will not be shown as earning anywhere near such an amount in next year`s accounts.)
8) In the year end balance sheet , the losses of £12m for the year take the overall balance sheet shortfall up to £65.8m. This is the net figure of assets less liabilities.
Assets were £91.4m (stadium and equipment £55.3m , players £25.2m , cash , debtors and stock £10.9m).
Liabilities were £157.2m (due to VT £122.8m , due to Mehmet Dalman £7.5m , due to Langston £5.6m , trade payables £8.8m other debts £12.5m). The other debts would have included normal debts due to HMRC payable after the year end and season ticket money received in advance of the current season.
In analysing the above figures I have assumed that the reference in the accounts to a £7.5m debt due to Torman Finance Inc is a company controlled by the club`s chairman Mehmet Dalman. I have done so on two bases — that I van think of no other director who would have put the money in and because I understand that MD has told the media that it is his company.
9) The accounts enable me to analyse how the amount due in respect of” loans from overseas shareholders and associated undertakings” (VT plus MD in the above figures) has grown from £65.8m in May 2013 to £130.3m in May 2014, an increase of £64.5m. The £64.5m was added to by a new share issue of £2.2m in the year , £3.1m from player sales and £4.2m generated from trading (cash generated is not the same as losses) . That total cash generated of £74.0m was then spent on players( £45.8m) , paying off other debt (£15.4m) and spending on the new stand extension and training ground (£12.8m).
In summary:
The club made an unexpected loss in 2013-4 , despite enjoying the benefits of a greatly increased income from its season in the Premier League.
As a result of the above losses , the club became even more insolvent than it had been before.
Of its total debts of £157m , all apart from £4.5m was technically repayable within one year after May 31, 2014 and the vast majority of it was due to Vincent Tan as a secured creditor which continues to represent a huge financial risk to the club.It is a risk which could have been avoided if the club`s directors had pursued the option publicly offered by Vincent Tan during the above financial period to convert £130m of debt into shares to make the club solvent and virtually debt free (other than accruing debts in the normal course of business).
My personal views on whether a failure to follow this course of action is the appropriate conduct for the club`s directors in carrying out their legal fiduciary duties of an insolvent company is a topic for a separate discussion.
Keith Morgan |  |
| Life is an adventure or nothing at all. |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:30 - Feb 26 with 1718 views | sully49 |
I bet Malky McKay gets the blame, and not Teflon Tan. |  |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:47 - Feb 26 with 1686 views | Dr_Winston |
Not like Since62 to be so pessimistic about their accounts. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:52 - Feb 26 with 1666 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:47 - Feb 26 by Dr_Winston |
Not like Since62 to be so pessimistic about their accounts. |
Well, being honest the Trust have become more militant the last 18 months or so.
Not like he'd allow that to potentially impinge on his professional judgement.
Last year, can't recall him saying we were insolvent ( note, not saying we were or we weren't just that it didn't seem that big an issue to him). With regards to the separate discussion comment, well it would be interesting if that separate discussion is held in public or private. | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:54 - Feb 26 with 1659 views | NeathJack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:47 - Feb 26 by Dr_Winston |
Not like Since62 to be so pessimistic about their accounts. |
Innit.
He predicted they'd show a profit of £20m  | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:54 - Feb 26 with 1659 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:52 - Feb 26 by blueytheblue |
Well, being honest the Trust have become more militant the last 18 months or so.
Not like he'd allow that to potentially impinge on his professional judgement.
Last year, can't recall him saying we were insolvent ( note, not saying we were or we weren't just that it didn't seem that big an issue to him). With regards to the separate discussion comment, well it would be interesting if that separate discussion is held in public or private. |
He's spent most of the last ten years predicting your imminent return to profitability and financial balance, so I wouldn't take him too seriously. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:59 - Feb 26 with 1638 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:54 - Feb 26 by Dr_Winston |
He's spent most of the last ten years predicting your imminent return to profitability and financial balance, so I wouldn't take him too seriously. |
I don't.
Seems someone well known here has been commenting too.
http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=155390&sid=d964e4aa4adbb9d
"Estimated an exact loss". Hmm. Impressive.
Still he believes Mutch, Campbell, Daehli et al were sold as asset stripping.
No, not due to Caulker, Campbell, Mutch etc wanting out so they could have Prem football whatsoever. Not due to Daehli wanting to leave once Ole left. Asset stripping, that's it.
"you will soon see that i made by far the most sense in your forums history."
Well, if he wants a medal for that claim... not a difficult feat. | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:02 - Feb 26 with 1632 views | Tom1912 |
Hang on, Mackey got £2m?
I thought they were all convinced he walked away with nothing. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:06 - Feb 26 with 1623 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:02 - Feb 26 by Tom1912 |
Hang on, Mackey got £2m?
I thought they were all convinced he walked away with nothing. |
He got nothing as a settlement.
Sadly he wasn't working for free during the year.
EDIT: To expand, the article in question states it cost 2m to replace Mackay with Ole - not that Mackay got 2m to go. That would have included any "signing on" bonus for Ole along with the costs of replacing backroom staff. [Post edited 26 Feb 2015 22:08]
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:08 - Feb 26 with 1610 views | NeathJack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:06 - Feb 26 by blueytheblue |
He got nothing as a settlement.
Sadly he wasn't working for free during the year.
EDIT: To expand, the article in question states it cost 2m to replace Mackay with Ole - not that Mackay got 2m to go. That would have included any "signing on" bonus for Ole along with the costs of replacing backroom staff. [Post edited 26 Feb 2015 22:08]
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His wages for the time he was employed would have been accounted for in, errr, well, the wages section of the accounts. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:10 - Feb 26 with 1603 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:08 - Feb 26 by NeathJack |
His wages for the time he was employed would have been accounted for in, errr, well, the wages section of the accounts. |
Hence the expanded answer via the edit. Given the results at the end of his reign, it's a pity he was paid... [Post edited 26 Feb 2015 22:12]
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:14 - Feb 26 with 1591 views | NeathJack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:10 - Feb 26 by blueytheblue |
Hence the expanded answer via the edit. Given the results at the end of his reign, it's a pity he was paid... [Post edited 26 Feb 2015 22:12]
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You are pembroke allan from Anus' board and I claim my £5. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:15 - Feb 26 with 1581 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:14 - Feb 26 by NeathJack |
You are pembroke allan from Anus' board and I claim my £5. |
Wrong.
Unlike CCFC I do actually have £5, but you're wrong. | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:17 - Feb 26 with 1576 views | Uxbridge |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 21:54 - Feb 26 by Dr_Winston |
He's spent most of the last ten years predicting your imminent return to profitability and financial balance, so I wouldn't take him too seriously. |
Those last two paragraphs are a delight. | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:19 - Feb 26 with 1570 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:17 - Feb 26 by Uxbridge |
Those last two paragraphs are a delight. |
Something of a turnaround isn't it?  | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:20 - Feb 26 with 1567 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:17 - Feb 26 by Uxbridge |
Those last two paragraphs are a delight. |
Well, if we were insolvent according to him 2014 accounts, I can't see how we weren't for 2013 etc. So it's interesting it's only an issue for him now. | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:26 - Feb 26 with 1532 views | Tom1912 |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:06 - Feb 26 by blueytheblue |
He got nothing as a settlement.
Sadly he wasn't working for free during the year.
EDIT: To expand, the article in question states it cost 2m to replace Mackay with Ole - not that Mackay got 2m to go. That would have included any "signing on" bonus for Ole along with the costs of replacing backroom staff. [Post edited 26 Feb 2015 22:08]
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If you gave Solksjaer a £2m signing on bonus, he'd have been one of the best paid managers in the league for half a season's work to get you relegated.
Backroom staff would cost feck all to replace in all likelihood.
An exceptional cost would be a ligation settlement. He clearly got something. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:31 - Feb 26 with 1515 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 22:26 - Feb 26 by Tom1912 |
If you gave Solksjaer a £2m signing on bonus, he'd have been one of the best paid managers in the league for half a season's work to get you relegated.
Backroom staff would cost feck all to replace in all likelihood.
An exceptional cost would be a ligation settlement. He clearly got something. |
I'd suggest replacing a significant number of backroom staff is an exceptional cost. Though it seems to be an annual running cost for us.
Mackay got feck all. [Post edited 26 Feb 2015 22:32]
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