| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread 20:33 - Apr 7 with 83283 views | exiledclaseboy |
About time we had one and it's got the word "official" in the title so that makes all the difference. If a mod wants to sticky it, feel free.
I seem to remember that five years ago (on the old, better Planet Swans) we got to nearly 100 pages and then another 60odd with the "aftermath" thread. They were good fun but there were more posters then and we were all a bit more tolerant of others' views. Let's try to be nice to each other, eh.
Anyway, best site for opinion polls is this one in my experience:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/
Polls are so tight the only conclusion is that the Tories and Labour are head to head nationwide. Can't put a whisker between them.
Tories need about 39-40% for an overall majority. Labour will probably get one on 36-37%. God bless our ridiculous voting system.
So, enjoy yourselves. I'll start with a prediction. Labour to win most seats but slightly fewer votes than the Tories and end up forming some kind of minority government with support from various parliamentary lefties on a vote by vote basis. And then all of a sudden many Tory supporters will discover that they've always hated first past the post and can't understand why we perpetuate a system under which the party which more people voted for than any other can lose the election. It'll be quite funny and lead to calls for a proper voting system. Which everyone will forget about in six months when all the fuss has died down.
What say you? |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:27 - Apr 14 with 1828 views | trampie |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 19:54 - Apr 14 by Lohengrin |
Good news for tenants wanting to buy though, no question about that. Don't you regard it as a parental obligation to hand something tangible down to help your children and grandchildren? |
You cant give some people a discount (a massive discount at that) on their houses and not others, if you rent privately apparently you will get Porthcawl, if you rent from a housing association apparently you could get a massive discount per the Tory Government (if a Tory Government comes to pass), if you have a mortgage or if you own your own home you get nothing.
If its worth for arguments sake 100k (because property is so expensive in parts of England), then people that dont get it might well expect to have a 100k cash otherwise they might not see it as fair.
When Thatcher did it, it was not hers to sell, she sold the housing stock off to the few for a song, well what about people that werent Council tenants at that time ?, they didn't get the same benefit.
There again Thatcher sold our nationalised Industries off the few for a song also (mainly her friends in the city), previously the nationalised Industries were owned by all of us, it was the family silver. |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:30 - Apr 14 with 1821 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:26 - Apr 14 by Lohengrin |
What about your sisters? None of them fancy it, Clase? |
If they had they would have done it. They have the means, as did I if I was so minded. It was a strange old day walking out of there for the final time last July. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:36 - Apr 14 with 1810 views | Lohengrin |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:27 - Apr 14 by trampie |
You cant give some people a discount (a massive discount at that) on their houses and not others, if you rent privately apparently you will get Porthcawl, if you rent from a housing association apparently you could get a massive discount per the Tory Government (if a Tory Government comes to pass), if you have a mortgage or if you own your own home you get nothing.
If its worth for arguments sake 100k (because property is so expensive in parts of England), then people that dont get it might well expect to have a 100k cash otherwise they might not see it as fair.
When Thatcher did it, it was not hers to sell, she sold the housing stock off to the few for a song, well what about people that werent Council tenants at that time ?, they didn't get the same benefit.
There again Thatcher sold our nationalised Industries off the few for a song also (mainly her friends in the city), previously the nationalised Industries were owned by all of us, it was the family silver. |
With the massive increase in the construction of social housing I've just proposed renting privately will be a matter of choice. I've also stated that I'd have a ten year occupancy rule to cut out speculation and profiteering.
Industry? Utilities? That's a different argument. I'm not about to sit here and defend Thatcherite policy but I'll always stand up to advocate the widest possible distribution of property ownership. |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:37 - Apr 14 with 1804 views | Lohengrin |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:30 - Apr 14 by exiledclaseboy |
If they had they would have done it. They have the means, as did I if I was so minded. It was a strange old day walking out of there for the final time last July. |
The same sort of feelings I get when I pass my late grandparents houses, I'd imagine. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:40 - Apr 14 with 1793 views | Lohengrin |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:38 - Apr 14 by trampie |
Not only would the proposal be unfair on non housing association residents but it will also cause housing inflation and a have and have nots between those that will buy and those that will not be able to buy even at a great discount and they could be in the same street or neighbours. [Post edited 14 Apr 2015 20:41]
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Let's generalise and say that those applying for social housing are often the least educated, the least able to shift for themselves. Don't you want to help them along? | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:57 - Apr 14 with 1771 views | epaul |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:08 - Apr 14 by trampie |
It will make things worse, its a disgrace and shouldn't be allowed. |
Spot on Trampie, it's a f*cking disgrace a Landlord right to buy scheme |  |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:58 - Apr 14 with 1758 views | perchrockjack |
That's a very personal and emotional post Andrew and I agree really as I feel council houses should not be made available as landlords will end up buying them and make a living out of houses built for renting y local councils and the money paid into local councils.
Thatchers worse legacy apart from utility privatisation |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:03 - Apr 14 with 1763 views | trampie |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:40 - Apr 14 by Lohengrin |
Let's generalise and say that those applying for social housing are often the least educated, the least able to shift for themselves. Don't you want to help them along? |
Help them along, what about private renters in lots of cases they wont be rich, one lot would get effectively a handout and the other lot nothing.
Right wingers like incentive, where is the incentive to get on the housing ladder and get a mortgage ? when somebody that could be said to be lower down the food chain in certain circumstances jumps over some home owners heads (who are struggling with a mortgage) because of preferential treatment. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:13 - Apr 14 with 1751 views | Lohengrin |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:03 - Apr 14 by trampie |
Help them along, what about private renters in lots of cases they wont be rich, one lot would get effectively a handout and the other lot nothing.
Right wingers like incentive, where is the incentive to get on the housing ladder and get a mortgage ? when somebody that could be said to be lower down the food chain in certain circumstances jumps over some home owners heads (who are struggling with a mortgage) because of preferential treatment. |
I've already answered your first point in an earlier post.
The new social housing I'm proposing wouldn't be palaces but a foot on the ladder and a chance after a decade's occupancy to start climbing.
I'm offering no panacea, I'm not trying to sell any Utopian vision I'm simply trying to think of ways to get people's heads and spirits up, something to strive for. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:18 - Apr 14 with 1742 views | trampie |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:36 - Apr 14 by Lohengrin |
With the massive increase in the construction of social housing I've just proposed renting privately will be a matter of choice. I've also stated that I'd have a ten year occupancy rule to cut out speculation and profiteering.
Industry? Utilities? That's a different argument. I'm not about to sit here and defend Thatcherite policy but I'll always stand up to advocate the widest possible distribution of property ownership. |
Private renting wont be a matter of choice as there are not enough housing association/Council houses to go around.
A 10 year occupancy in some cases wont stop speculating, as somebody might rent their paid for home out/sell it and try and get a housing association property to make a killing on, there was loop holes with the Council house right to buy
You wont be able to defend Thatcherite policy as what milk snatcher done was indefensible.
Thatchers great achievement was not just persuading one party to implement her policies but two. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:22 - Apr 14 with 1737 views | exiledclaseboy |
Interestingly, the Tories claim that the housing policy has been costed by officials in the DCLG and HM Treasury. Which is another misuse of the civil service for party political purposes during an election campaign. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:25 - Apr 14 with 1733 views | C_jack |
Leanne is a Red, there's no doubt that, and I don't mean Labour Red.
She's been a guest speaker at many an event under the Commie banner |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:47 - Apr 14 with 1700 views | trampie |
Leanne is for real, she is a product of her environment, parts of the Rhondda were and still are known as 'little Moscow'.
She is in a social justice party because that is what fits in with her politics, communism doesnt, but there are things that can be used and learned from, Plaid would like to model themselves on the Nordic model, those countries are top of the league, Plaids Dr DJ Davies from the early years was an advocate even then and Ms Wood would be looking in that direction and not to Moscow or Havana. [Post edited 14 Apr 2015 22:06]
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:55 - Apr 14 with 1690 views | yescomeon |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:25 - Apr 14 by C_jack |
Leanne is a Red, there's no doubt that, and I don't mean Labour Red.
She's been a guest speaker at many an event under the Commie banner |
Done a quick Google and she was a guest speaker at a communitst party event mentioned on Wikipedia. Never been a member of the party as far than I can see but hadly done a thorough search. I would say any claim she is a communist is speculation imo. She is clearly very left and is open about being a socialist. |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 22:15 - Apr 14 with 1668 views | Lohengrin |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:47 - Apr 14 by trampie |
Leanne is for real, she is a product of her environment, parts of the Rhondda were and still are known as 'little Moscow'.
She is in a social justice party because that is what fits in with her politics, communism doesnt, but there are things that can be used and learned from, Plaid would like to model themselves on the Nordic model, those countries are top of the league, Plaids Dr DJ Davies from the early years was an advocate even then and Ms Wood would be looking in that direction and not to Moscow or Havana. [Post edited 14 Apr 2015 22:06]
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What, pray tell, are we to learn from communism save from the object lessons of enslavement and moral degradation?
If you want to talk about DJ Davies fine but understand he was something of a peripheral figure tasked mainly with wrestling with the finances of self government. The drive, the intellectual coherence behind "The Ten Points" came from Lewis, Bebb and Daniel. Christian, European men not marxist lackies. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 22:30 - Apr 14 with 1645 views | trampie |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 22:15 - Apr 14 by Lohengrin |
What, pray tell, are we to learn from communism save from the object lessons of enslavement and moral degradation?
If you want to talk about DJ Davies fine but understand he was something of a peripheral figure tasked mainly with wrestling with the finances of self government. The drive, the intellectual coherence behind "The Ten Points" came from Lewis, Bebb and Daniel. Christian, European men not marxist lackies. |
Read the wiki page on DJ Davies, Prof John Davies talks about DJ Davies had long term influence, his influence was at least equal to Saunders Lewis, Gwynfor Evans followed DJ Davies political path, its been said that Saunders Lewis stepped back when he realised it was the path of DJ Davies that was going to be followed.
DJ Davies was a bona fide left winger and the party could still be said to be following DJ Davies path even today. [Post edited 14 Apr 2015 23:32]
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 23:50 - Apr 14 with 1588 views | perchrockjack |
Right wingers ..yep, like to have a place if their own and possibly have a private income ,pay tax , run a car, find a good school for their kids.
This a bad thing, tough for right on socialist bouts.
And by whom is Anglesey being overrun | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 00:20 - Apr 15 with 1574 views | trampie |
Apparently only 67.6% of Ynys Mon's population was born in Wales.
Stats like that will probably make it harder and harder for Plaid to win seats, but they are appealing to a more all inclusive group these days. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 07:34 - Apr 15 with 1529 views | epaul |
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| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 08:32 - Apr 15 with 1508 views | epaul |
Oh dear
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/14/tory-candidate-chamali-fernando-sugge
Wristbands can be removed easily perhaps they should suggest they tattoo a serial number on their foreheads
Got to love the Tories | |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 08:33 - Apr 15 with 1506 views | perchrockjack |
Song overwhelmed and why should that matter.
Last time I looked, we are free to live,love and die anywhere in the UK.
There again communists/reds don't really aspire to this and a brief cursory look at modern history will tell you that.
No doubt ,you re playing the anti English card. WELL, me old mucker Angelsey and much of north Wales would feckn starve without ENGLSH visitors and many derelict properties bringing in no revenue to local councils would stay empty and derelict.
Given the attitude of trampie and many north west Walians Im amazed any English people bother their arse to spend time in Gwynedd ,which although beautiful ,has too many with attitudes which make you think- feek them. Its why people from north east Wales are infinitely more welcoming and outgoing. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 08:44 - Apr 15 with 1501 views | trampie |
You asked who the incomers were, I told you the figures for non Welsh born and you have gone on an insecure rant im not from North-West Wales the demographics are the demographics. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 08:51 - Apr 15 with 1495 views | trampie |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 08:27 - Apr 15 by Lohengrin |
I didn't know there was a Wiki page on DJ Davies? I know of him because I've got the full set of his booklets sat on the shelf. He wasn't a "left-winger" in the way you seem to imagine. He was an arch Monarchist, the same as Lewis for starters. He was never really a Socialist along the lines that you and Wood seem to think he was at all, nothing like it. In point of fact in outlook he'd have been much, much closer to The Greens.
I'm laughing writing this at the thought of you picturing Leanne Wood's leadership as somehow being the crowning culmination of Davies's influence on the development of I'r Blaid. If you want to see his real legacy turn away from poltics and look instead to Llangollen and The International Eisteddfod. See all those kids singing and dancing, breathing new life into arcane folk traditions from around the world? That's his doing and hat's off to him.
* I can hear Clase tutting from here...  |
He was a left winger, he was a founding member of Welsh Labour before becoming a founding member of what was to become Plaid, he was a Republican who in later life thought we should have our own monarchy, a Welsh monarchy. | |
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