| Just Back - Formation 21:43 - Apr 18 with 1505 views | Magic_Michu |
Why on earth did we stick so long playing the diamond formation?
The centre of the park was so congested and their full backs had free reign attacking our full backs.
Bringing Montero and Dyer on changed the game... I feel that if they had played the entire 90 we would have come away with something.
Please leave this diamond just to fit Shelvey Siggy and Ki now... it's killing us. |  |
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| Just Back - Formation on 21:46 - Apr 18 with 1490 views | Dr_Winston |
Because it worked against Man Utd. Therefore we must always play it. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Just Back - Formation on 21:59 - Apr 18 with 1455 views | Drizzy |
| Just Back - Formation on 21:46 - Apr 18 by Dr_Winston |
Because it worked against Man Utd. Therefore we must always play it. |
Yeah clearly hasn't worked in any other game ever. |  |
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| Just Back - Formation on 22:04 - Apr 18 with 1435 views | LeonisGod |
I do find it slightly ironic that for years we've needed a plan B And when we finally find one we rarely change it and now need a plan A. |  | | |
| Just Back - Formation on 23:58 - Apr 18 with 1288 views | JonTheJack |
| Just Back - Formation on 21:59 - Apr 18 by Drizzy |
Yeah clearly hasn't worked in any other game ever. |
I would just like to make the point here that playing this formation, we have bagged a number of points; but the majority of these points have been from either a moment of magic, or sheer luck.
Saints - wonder strike.
Man Utd - deflection.
Burnley - whatever happened there wasn't down to us.
Everton - relied on dodgy pen.
There's a time and a place for formations and tactics; but the longer Monk continues with this every single game, it will slow us down, because it limits our strengths. |  | | |
| Just Back - Formation on 00:21 - Apr 19 with 1262 views | NeiltheTaylor |
The time and place for a formation and tactics change was today. Opportunity missed to try three at back with no pressure. When Monk has been saying all season it's all about being tactically flexible I eventually bought in that he was doing it on purpose. Just as I do - we become tactically rigid with this diamond when players in key positions are missing. So I don't really get it. Is he adjusting us dependent on opposition and players available or not? |  |
| Joe_bradshaw -I thought the cryochamber was the new name for Cardiff's stadium.
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| Just Back - Formation on 00:39 - Apr 19 with 1246 views | Drizzy |
| Just Back - Formation on 00:21 - Apr 19 by NeiltheTaylor |
The time and place for a formation and tactics change was today. Opportunity missed to try three at back with no pressure. When Monk has been saying all season it's all about being tactically flexible I eventually bought in that he was doing it on purpose. Just as I do - we become tactically rigid with this diamond when players in key positions are missing. So I don't really get it. Is he adjusting us dependent on opposition and players available or not? |
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Why would we try three at the back with our wingers being played as wing backs? Dyer is out form as it is and would have been lost at that position, Montero can hardly be trusted to track back at the best of times it would be mental to rely on him. Rangel doesn't have the legs for that role at his age. In fact we haven't played that formation since our second season with Rodgers, against Wolves at home I believe, and we conceded 4 goals to arguably the sh*ttest team in the league at that time. It could have been a massacre if we'd attempted to play three at the back today with our available personnel. | |
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| Just Back - Formation on 00:47 - Apr 19 with 1232 views | Dull1Thomas |
Diamond formation???? On paper maybe.
But we keep playing
flat back 4
Cork
Ki
Routledge Siggy
Striker
Jonjo floating around like a fart in a bottle.
The only reason we use a 'diamond formation' is we have 11 (maybe 13) outfield players we dare put on the field and the 'diamond' is the only way Monk can keep Shelvey, Ki, Siggy, Cork and Routledge happy.
If we take out Jonjo, Siggy or Ki who replaces them and where?
Dyer possibly could be another wing but he's not taking his chances when he has game time recently.
Montero can't do 90 and might even have legs of glass - phenomenal when he's in full flight but has a lot to prove as a full game player.
Emnes is our best hope.
Fulton & Grimes?
Today we could have played Leon alongside Cork to break down their predictable attack - but who of the Fantastic 4 would be dropped?
A few weeks back we were reading about this being the best squad in the history of Swansea City - sorry to burst the bubble here but falling apart because 2 players are unavailable (not including Rangel as he is a better all round player than Naughton) does not suggest a great squad.
Really annoyed about today's performance. | |
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| Just Back - Formation on 00:53 - Apr 19 with 1225 views | DJack |
| Just Back - Formation on 00:21 - Apr 19 by NeiltheTaylor |
The time and place for a formation and tactics change was today. Opportunity missed to try three at back with no pressure. When Monk has been saying all season it's all about being tactically flexible I eventually bought in that he was doing it on purpose. Just as I do - we become tactically rigid with this diamond when players in key positions are missing. So I don't really get it. Is he adjusting us dependent on opposition and players available or not? |
"... try three at back with no pressure"
I know that I've got a bad habit of posting when pissed but Iesu mawr. Three at the back against a pacey squad who are fighting for their survival! You are good poster normally but I think you've had a mind fart here...or you're more pissed than I generally am. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Just Back - Formation on 00:55 - Apr 19 with 1219 views | Drizzy |
| Just Back - Formation on 23:58 - Apr 18 by JonTheJack |
I would just like to make the point here that playing this formation, we have bagged a number of points; but the majority of these points have been from either a moment of magic, or sheer luck.
Saints - wonder strike.
Man Utd - deflection.
Burnley - whatever happened there wasn't down to us.
Everton - relied on dodgy pen.
There's a time and a place for formations and tactics; but the longer Monk continues with this every single game, it will slow us down, because it limits our strengths. |
What about the brisk and clinical win against Hull? What about when we outplayed Villa with a near perfect away performance and snatched 3 points?
You're doing our defence a massive disservice by attributing those points to luck. We shut out Manchester United through the middle, forced them to attack us from out wide we're their playmakers couldn't influence the game as much and defended the crosses well. We gave ourselves a chance to win at Burnley by keeping a clean sheet and capitalised on their f*ck up like a good team should do. Everton f*ck me they had a huge stroke of luck with Kone still being on the pitch, the penalty was a stonewall penalty has Coleman went down like a sack of sh*t and got rightly punished for his pathetic attempt at trying to scoop the ball to buy himself a free kick.
Our strengths are nullified by injuries, losing both our first choice full-backs has killed us because we rely on them so heavily for width when attacking that we're predictable when we're out. This should be addressed in the summer. I just don't see a better XI that could have gone out today with the players we had. Perhaps we could have went 4-3-3 but I don't want Dyer on the pitch on his current form, Routledge isn't particularly good on the right and Montero's lack of defensive work means he won't start until he starts protecting his full-back. Monk's first priority is going to be to keep a clean sheet. Always. Sooner people get used to that the better, it's the kind of pragmatism we've lacked for a while. | |
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| Just Back - Formation on 00:56 - Apr 19 with 1217 views | Dull1Thomas |
| Just Back - Formation on 00:53 - Apr 19 by DJack |
"... try three at back with no pressure"
I know that I've got a bad habit of posting when pissed but Iesu mawr. Three at the back against a pacey squad who are fighting for their survival! You are good poster normally but I think you've had a mind fart here...or you're more pissed than I generally am. |
Three central with two in front gives a really flexible formation especially if Rangel and Routledge (Dyer better still were played as wings who defend)
Cork and Leon today would have really defused the Leicester attack down the middle and crowded out their wide play which is what Leicester did to us. | |
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| Just Back - Formation on 01:18 - Apr 19 with 1194 views | DJack |
| Just Back - Formation on 00:55 - Apr 19 by Drizzy |
What about the brisk and clinical win against Hull? What about when we outplayed Villa with a near perfect away performance and snatched 3 points?
You're doing our defence a massive disservice by attributing those points to luck. We shut out Manchester United through the middle, forced them to attack us from out wide we're their playmakers couldn't influence the game as much and defended the crosses well. We gave ourselves a chance to win at Burnley by keeping a clean sheet and capitalised on their f*ck up like a good team should do. Everton f*ck me they had a huge stroke of luck with Kone still being on the pitch, the penalty was a stonewall penalty has Coleman went down like a sack of sh*t and got rightly punished for his pathetic attempt at trying to scoop the ball to buy himself a free kick.
Our strengths are nullified by injuries, losing both our first choice full-backs has killed us because we rely on them so heavily for width when attacking that we're predictable when we're out. This should be addressed in the summer. I just don't see a better XI that could have gone out today with the players we had. Perhaps we could have went 4-3-3 but I don't want Dyer on the pitch on his current form, Routledge isn't particularly good on the right and Montero's lack of defensive work means he won't start until he starts protecting his full-back. Monk's first priority is going to be to keep a clean sheet. Always. Sooner people get used to that the better, it's the kind of pragmatism we've lacked for a while. |
Drizzy, some days I laugh at your comments ... but then there are days like today. Thank you. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Just Back - Formation on 01:23 - Apr 19 with 1184 views | DJack |
| Just Back - Formation on 00:56 - Apr 19 by Dull1Thomas |
Three central with two in front gives a really flexible formation especially if Rangel and Routledge (Dyer better still were played as wings who defend)
Cork and Leon today would have really defused the Leicester attack down the middle and crowded out their wide play which is what Leicester did to us. |
Thomas I get what you are saying but I disagree. First, Amat is massively short of game time and this was shown by his early yellow. Secondly your formation with Cork and Leon is only going for the draw and I'm sure Garry is going for the win in every game until the end of season but I also believe that they were playing with too much pace for Leon to be as effective as he can be... they were also (everyone of them) as dogged as he can be. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Just Back - Formation on 12:01 - Apr 19 with 979 views | LeonisGod |
| Just Back - Formation on 00:47 - Apr 19 by Dull1Thomas |
Diamond formation???? On paper maybe.
But we keep playing
flat back 4
Cork
Ki
Routledge Siggy
Striker
Jonjo floating around like a fart in a bottle.
The only reason we use a 'diamond formation' is we have 11 (maybe 13) outfield players we dare put on the field and the 'diamond' is the only way Monk can keep Shelvey, Ki, Siggy, Cork and Routledge happy.
If we take out Jonjo, Siggy or Ki who replaces them and where?
Dyer possibly could be another wing but he's not taking his chances when he has game time recently.
Montero can't do 90 and might even have legs of glass - phenomenal when he's in full flight but has a lot to prove as a full game player.
Emnes is our best hope.
Fulton & Grimes?
Today we could have played Leon alongside Cork to break down their predictable attack - but who of the Fantastic 4 would be dropped?
A few weeks back we were reading about this being the best squad in the history of Swansea City - sorry to burst the bubble here but falling apart because 2 players are unavailable (not including Rangel as he is a better all round player than Naughton) does not suggest a great squad.
Really annoyed about today's performance. |
I'm glad it's not just me who doesn't think this is a classic diamond. More like two banks of midfield 3 at times with no striker up top.
Maybe it's because we're so used to it, but I still think 4231 is our most threatening approach. We have 3 natural wingers who like to hug the touch line, and possibly one of the scariest wingers in the division for a fullback to face. But we leave him on the bench so we can accommodate Cork, Ki, Shelvey and Siggy. It's effective at swamping the midfield and closing a game down, but it doesn't feel balanced. Siggy is wasted in this set-up too for some reason (probably because he's the furthest forward when we don't have the ball, so less able to pull the strings?).
2 from Ki, Cork, Shelvey, Leon behind Montero, Siggy, Routs/Dyer. With Gomis, Emnes, Nelson up top. And get back to the quick short triangles to play our way out from the back whilst we haven't got a striker to hold the ball up. Use the with as an outlet rather than looking for killer passes from Shelvey all the time. Although do we have the composure and belief to play that way any more? | | | |
| Just Back - Formation on 12:40 - Apr 19 with 959 views | MattG |
I was very surprised to see Amat on the left - when I heard the team, I assumed Rangel would switch sides and Amat would at least be playing on his more favoured side. To play him (a) out of position, (b) on the wrong side and (c) with no winger protection in front of him seemed very strange, to me.
He also wandered out of position quite a bit - perhaps not surprisingly - ending up as a third CB on too many occasions. The space this left was magnified by the lack of any other player on that side.
For that reason alone, I think the 4-5-1 would have been a better option from the start. [Post edited 19 Apr 2015 12:40]
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