| EU Referendum question is set 14:39 - May 28 with 7608 views | C_jack |
"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?"
Shrewd, as the Pro-EU now have control of the 'Yes' campaign, with the question and campaign focusing around the benefits of staying |  |
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| EU Referendum question is set on 11:15 - May 29 with 2012 views | dgt73 |
| EU Referendum question is set on 11:05 - May 29 by yescomeon |
If it is money that would not be coming to Wales anyway I couldn't really give a toss if it more being paid back by the UK than is give to Wales, to be Frank like. |
It's Briitish money full stop,not EU money and your attitude is why the EU will fail. Wanting other people to fund your lifestyle.....it's what has fcuked Greece. [Post edited 29 May 2015 11:21]
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| EU Referendum question is set on 11:22 - May 29 with 2001 views | yescomeon |
| EU Referendum question is set on 11:15 - May 29 by dgt73 |
It's Briitish money full stop,not EU money and your attitude is why the EU will fail. Wanting other people to fund your lifestyle.....it's what has fcuked Greece. [Post edited 29 May 2015 11:21]
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It's not my lifestyle I want funded. I don't trust the current UK government to award enough subsidies to the renewable sector. Relying on private companies to develop the renewable sector is causing to fall behind. |  |
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| EU Referendum question is set on 11:56 - May 29 with 1980 views | C_jack |
In general, the human mind is terrified of the unknown, the British mindset even more so, and will always stick to 'the devil you know'
To many of us, the EU is simply an urban tale that our 'parents' ( government) have told us, to keep us in check, not very many of us know what it actually does or even know what difference it makes to our every day lives, we just know it exists, and we can't upset it. It's burnt into the psyche of our brains, that it holds society together and without it, everything will go to hell . It can be compared to the early settlers, who would perform many rituals every night, because they believed it would appease the higher powers protecting them, and they were terrified of the prospect of upsetting them.
Madness for something that's only existed in our culture for 40 years, how did our ancestors survive without it? how has it swung so, that this once great empire, that ruled over the likes of Cyprus and Malta, are now reliant on those very same nations in effect, to prop itself up? [Post edited 29 May 2015 11:57]
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| EU Referendum question is set on 12:15 - May 29 with 1965 views | dgt73 |
| EU Referendum question is set on 11:56 - May 29 by C_jack |
In general, the human mind is terrified of the unknown, the British mindset even more so, and will always stick to 'the devil you know'
To many of us, the EU is simply an urban tale that our 'parents' ( government) have told us, to keep us in check, not very many of us know what it actually does or even know what difference it makes to our every day lives, we just know it exists, and we can't upset it. It's burnt into the psyche of our brains, that it holds society together and without it, everything will go to hell . It can be compared to the early settlers, who would perform many rituals every night, because they believed it would appease the higher powers protecting them, and they were terrified of the prospect of upsetting them.
Madness for something that's only existed in our culture for 40 years, how did our ancestors survive without it? how has it swung so, that this once great empire, that ruled over the likes of Cyprus and Malta, are now reliant on those very same nations in effect, to prop itself up? [Post edited 29 May 2015 11:57]
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We must have been living in caves - before the EU, EEC at the time brought us ( British ) civilisation. Oh how will we cope without them ? I'm terrified pmsl. | |
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| EU Referendum question is set on 16:06 - May 29 with 1920 views | trampie |
The EU the land of milk, fruit and veg, just heard a Plaid lady telling Brussels that she wished school children in her patch also had the scheme they have in other parts of the EU, but Britain opted out apparently.
We haven't moved on since Milk Snatcher have we. |  |
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| EU Referendum question is set on 16:19 - May 29 with 1904 views | Drizzy |
| EU Referendum question is set on 11:56 - May 29 by C_jack |
In general, the human mind is terrified of the unknown, the British mindset even more so, and will always stick to 'the devil you know'
To many of us, the EU is simply an urban tale that our 'parents' ( government) have told us, to keep us in check, not very many of us know what it actually does or even know what difference it makes to our every day lives, we just know it exists, and we can't upset it. It's burnt into the psyche of our brains, that it holds society together and without it, everything will go to hell . It can be compared to the early settlers, who would perform many rituals every night, because they believed it would appease the higher powers protecting them, and they were terrified of the prospect of upsetting them.
Madness for something that's only existed in our culture for 40 years, how did our ancestors survive without it? how has it swung so, that this once great empire, that ruled over the likes of Cyprus and Malta, are now reliant on those very same nations in effect, to prop itself up? [Post edited 29 May 2015 11:57]
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Is anyone taking this armchair psychology seriously? |  |
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| EU Referendum question is set on 16:22 - May 29 with 1901 views | londonlisa2001 |
| EU Referendum question is set on 09:56 - May 29 by jackonicko |
Right now, yes, I would (marginally) side on the vote to come out. I agree with quite a bit of C_Jack’s excellent post above.
Of course there are advantages to staying in, and one of those is the fear of the unknown if we were to pull out. Noone really knows how things would pan out. But voting yes for just that reason is the coward’s way out.
It’s certainly not the immigration argument for me. As I’ve stated elsewhere, I’m happier to see higher net migration into the country than we currently see. My fear on coming out is that politicians will use their new found ability to limit migration to choke off the people we need to come here to keep the economy sustained, in order to satisfy newspaper headlines.
However, I don’t buy the scare stories that leaving the EU would be a disaster — especially when they largely come from the same business leaders who told us that staying out of the Euro would be a disaster. I disagreed with them then, and I disagree with them now. The EU needs the UK just as much, if not more, than the UK needs the EU.
People use scary statistics that say 50% of our foreign trade is with the EU, but overlook that we trade quite happily with the other 50% with countries that aren’t in the EU. And if you look at the contribution that foreign trade makes to our national GDP figure, which is actually surprisingly small, then 50% of a surprisingly small figure is a very surprisingly small figure. It's not the big deal they make it out to be.
What I’m saying is that economically, I think the UK could do just fine. There is no way the rest of the EU will erect trade barriers — we are too important to them. Free movement of trade with the EU will remain, but we will have scope to more effectively negotiate elsewhere. The cost of membership is high through our annual contributions, and the direction of travel is that it is only going to be higher. And I don't see the value in it.
My other objections are political and philosophical. My politics may be right of centre economically, but the reason I agree with ECB so often is that I also believe in democracy and I have a strong liberal streak. I believe in fairness, the sovereignty of our democratically elected lower chamber, the importance of the supremacy of the UK judiciary - and I see much of that undermined by the EU in its pursuit of “ever closer union”.
I was a very strong proponent of the EU in the early 90s, but that has been eroded by more recent treaties, judgents from the ECJ and structural changes within the EU triumvirate of the Commission, the Parliament and the Council. There were judgments in the 90s from the ECJ (e.g. the Cassis du Dijon case) that eroded the sovereignty of parliament and blunted our judisciary in a way I fundamentally and philosophically disagree with.
The EU project as it currently stands is flawed (for many of the reasons C-Jack outlined), I don't like the direction the EU project is heading, and I don’t buy the economic argument of the threat of coming out. So, just about on balance, that’s a no vote for me. It’s up to Cameron to make his case to persuade me. [Post edited 29 May 2015 9:59]
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Fair enough - I can't disagree with much of what you say, particularly around the democracy angle.
My main concern, as I said previously, is less around the trade with the EU itself and more around any effect that there may be from our 'gateway' position as a natural transition between the EU and the US, Asia and Commonwealth countries. I don't believe that there will be significant trade barriers necessarily between us and the EU, but I do believe that there will be an attempt to raise barriers between, for example, a US company trading with the EU from here (or, actually, rather than barriers, I believe that there will be subsidies the other way which will lead to companies moving over time). The one area where I think there could be barriers between us and the EU nations will be over energy, as we are over a barrel at the moment.
I am also concerned about the potential for financial services.
I am, at the moment, in favour of staying in, BUT, and it's a fairly big but, I believe that the current format is unsustainable and I am not convinced that any renegotiation will result in anything other than the type of fluffy nonsense Clasie refers to. |  | | |
| EU Referendum question is set on 16:56 - May 29 with 1867 views | monmouth |
Hmmm and yet...and yet...I remember how absolutely desperate we were to join, to the extent Tory Ted bent over and got humped (yes...ok). Seeing as we had this wonderful panacea of non membership at the time, can someone explain why we were so desperate (economically not politically) to beg on our knees to join then and what has changed (economically, not politically) now that makes exclusion so desirable? |  |
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| EU Referendum question is set on 17:01 - May 29 with 1865 views | dgt73 |
Fear not Lisa regarding energy. EDF - which is partly own by the French goverment, have invested billions in the UK recently do you think they will risk all that. We import more than we export in the EU and EU Companies will still want to trade with the UK. | |
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| EU Referendum question is set on 17:08 - May 29 with 1851 views | Lord_Bony |
i HAVE NT READ ANY OF THIS THREAD BUT i WILL TRY AND GET A QUICK TWO PENNETH IN.
eUROPE IS SCREWED.
Greece WILL DEFAULT soon followed by Spain. Cataclysmic for the Eu which will have repurcussions for all.
Not a stable future we re better off out of it IMHO luckily we are not in the Euro currency. |  |
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| EU Referendum question is set on 17:09 - May 29 with 1851 views | londonlisa2001 |
| EU Referendum question is set on 17:01 - May 29 by dgt73 |
Fear not Lisa regarding energy. EDF - which is partly own by the French goverment, have invested billions in the UK recently do you think they will risk all that. We import more than we export in the EU and EU Companies will still want to trade with the UK. |
I'm not suggesting they will pull out. Doesn't mean there won't be any financial impact.
It's hardly as though we can say - oh, sod off, we'll do it ourselves is it. Not for the foreseeable future.
We have a real problem with energy coming down the tracks very very quickly. And it's an area where we can't really replace or do without. | | | |
| EU Referendum question is set on 00:20 - May 30 with 1802 views | ScoobyWho |
Anyone who voted in the Welsh referendum will know how confusing a yes or no answer can be. |  |
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| EU Referendum question is set on 07:41 - Jun 1 with 1744 views | Dr_Winston |
As Jean-Claude Juncker put it the other day, “There can be no democratic choice against the European Treaties”.
How can anyone possibly support staying in an organisation like that? |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| EU Referendum question is set on 07:49 - Jun 1 with 1741 views | dgt73 |
| EU Referendum question is set on 07:41 - Jun 1 by Dr_Winston |
As Jean-Claude Juncker put it the other day, “There can be no democratic choice against the European Treaties”.
How can anyone possibly support staying in an organisation like that? |
Absolutely....and what influence would Wales have in a population of 500 million....?. Greece would be better off if it left the Euro.... But the EU don't care about the Greek people all they care about is maintaining the EU project, even if that means individual countries suffer. | |
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| EU Referendum question is set on 14:01 - Jun 1 with 1693 views | ScoobyWho |
| EU Referendum question is set on 07:49 - Jun 1 by dgt73 |
Absolutely....and what influence would Wales have in a population of 500 million....?. Greece would be better off if it left the Euro.... But the EU don't care about the Greek people all they care about is maintaining the EU project, even if that means individual countries suffer. |
No other organisation could influence in such a way.
Especially through one man..
Oh ... Hang on 😂 | |
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