| Well done Greece! on 11:49 - Jul 6 with 1412 views | WarwickHunt |
| Well done Greece! on 11:23 - Jul 6 by trampie |
The taxpayers bailed the banks out to the tune of trillions of pounds, yet the powers that be don't seem to want to write the very small amount of Greek debt off [in comparison to the bankers debts].
The Greeks are unable to pay, it would mean generations and generations of suffering and financial hardship for them to even try and pay it off, you cant get blood out of a stone and lending and investing carries risks, that is the capitalist game.
ISIS and Putin are relatively quite close to the Greek borders, the EU can write the debt off and not have people within the EU living in poverty at EU's own hand and also keep ISIS and Putin away from the door or the EU can squeeze the Greeks till the pips squeak or force them to leave the EU, then what direction Greece follows if they are forced to leave the European powers will have little say over.
The EU need to think on, particularly the Germans, I watched a foreign news channel last night and a bloke on there [expert type] seemed to be suggesting if any other country in Europe had the lead roll [as in the most powerful country in the EU] then they would not be pushing the Greeks into a corner like this but he seemed to suggest that the Germans are the one nation that would push the Greeks all the way with no compassion.
The Germans need to wind their necks in, otherwise modern Germany will be getting a reputation, they need to remember how the world treated them after the war. |
I've had some pisspoor warm moussaka in Greece but I'd draw the line at a lead roll.
No wonder there are so many toothless f*ckers out there. [Post edited 6 Jul 2015 12:15]
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| Well done Greece! on 12:18 - Jul 6 with 1373 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
Nice to see Perch banging on about lefties again😂.
It's every thread now Perch , |  |
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| Well done Greece! on 12:44 - Jul 6 with 1344 views | waynekerr55 |
| Well done Greece! on 11:49 - Jul 6 by WarwickHunt |
I've had some pisspoor warm moussaka in Greece but I'd draw the line at a lead roll.
No wonder there are so many toothless f*ckers out there. [Post edited 6 Jul 2015 12:15]
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Bollocks.
You don't venture to Greece you're a Tuscany and Barbados man 😂😂😂😂 |  |
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| Well done Greece! on 12:46 - Jul 6 with 1341 views | trampie |
The EU is a right wing creation and club. |  |
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| Well done Greece! on 13:12 - Jul 6 with 1309 views | trampie |
Thomas Piketty speaks and he gets stuck right into the Germans, Vive la France as they say in......well France I suppose. | |
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| Well done Greece! on 14:02 - Jul 6 with 1268 views | Groo |
Good summing up by someone in another forum.
" The Greeks have had a dysfunctional economy for years. Tax-dodging is so endemic its almost considered a national sport, the retirement age is a ridiculously and unsustainably low 57 and the public sector is seen almost entirely as a job creation scheme for the privilaged instead of a a way to efficiently administer the country.
Every half-hearted attempt to reform this in line with economic reality has been met with fanatical resistance by the unions and so the can was kicked further down the road and now here we are.
If they had their own currency, they could allow it to inflate to reflect the reality of Greece's economic circumstance, but they are in a common currency union with Germany, which does not need or desire the same kinds of inflationary policies to compensate for endemic structural weaknesses in its economy or bloated public sector.
As Greece has fundamentally refused to address its issues regarding its public sector it needs to leave the Euro so it can pursue its own monetary policies that suit its kind of economy, rather than keep expecting other, stronger economies within the currency union it is in to keep propping them up in order for them to keep using the Euro.
I agree that they need to default and wipe the slate clean, but that will obviously destroy their economic credibility and adversely affect their currency in the short term at the very least. They should at least have the courtesy to do that to their own currency, rather than one that is also shared between 17 other sovereign European countries." |  |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| Well done Greece! on 14:18 - Jul 6 with 1244 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Well done Greece! on 10:46 - Jul 6 by trampie |
Oh we are entitled to but the Greeks are not is it [say a Greek shipyard worker], I saw a Greek gentlemen [ordinary bloke interviewed in the street] on tv last night mentioning his pension had been halved, some better think on hearing stories like that, could it happen here ?, if workers in work here are getting squeezed and they are having to work longer and for much less pension then will they at some point turn round and say hey 'what about those retired on a good screw ? drawing a good pension, lets share the pain'. [Post edited 6 Jul 2015 10:50]
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So you think it's perfectly fair that an 'ordinary worker' in Germany has to work until they are 67 in order to pay for an 'ordinary worker' in Greece to retire at 59? And for the Greek worker's pension to go to an unmarried child for as long as they stay unmarried in the case of that worker's death? And for the German to receive c. 70% maximum of their working wage after 40 years work rather than c.80% if in Greece.
35,000 unmarried children of civil servants and armed forces personnel received their father's pension in Greece, irrespective of whether they had work or an income themselves. Up and down Greece, people deliberately remained unmarried to continue to receive the pension payment. One woman interviewed by Bloomberg had received her father's pension for 69 years (she was 70).
But that's ok - we should just say - forget it, no problem - you carry on. Laughable. |  | | |
| Well done Greece! on 14:51 - Jul 6 with 1210 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Well done Greece! on 14:18 - Jul 6 by londonlisa2001 |
So you think it's perfectly fair that an 'ordinary worker' in Germany has to work until they are 67 in order to pay for an 'ordinary worker' in Greece to retire at 59? And for the Greek worker's pension to go to an unmarried child for as long as they stay unmarried in the case of that worker's death? And for the German to receive c. 70% maximum of their working wage after 40 years work rather than c.80% if in Greece.
35,000 unmarried children of civil servants and armed forces personnel received their father's pension in Greece, irrespective of whether they had work or an income themselves. Up and down Greece, people deliberately remained unmarried to continue to receive the pension payment. One woman interviewed by Bloomberg had received her father's pension for 69 years (she was 70).
But that's ok - we should just say - forget it, no problem - you carry on. Laughable. |
But everyone knew this before they took them into the loving German arms of the Euro , it seems it wasn't a problem then.
Where as we over here just take it all in hook line & sinker.
Austerity it's all a made up load of bollox.
More country's to follow Greece , Spain & Potugal . | |
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| Well done Greece! on 14:52 - Jul 6 with 1209 views | trampie |
| Well done Greece! on 14:18 - Jul 6 by londonlisa2001 |
So you think it's perfectly fair that an 'ordinary worker' in Germany has to work until they are 67 in order to pay for an 'ordinary worker' in Greece to retire at 59? And for the Greek worker's pension to go to an unmarried child for as long as they stay unmarried in the case of that worker's death? And for the German to receive c. 70% maximum of their working wage after 40 years work rather than c.80% if in Greece.
35,000 unmarried children of civil servants and armed forces personnel received their father's pension in Greece, irrespective of whether they had work or an income themselves. Up and down Greece, people deliberately remained unmarried to continue to receive the pension payment. One woman interviewed by Bloomberg had received her father's pension for 69 years (she was 70).
But that's ok - we should just say - forget it, no problem - you carry on. Laughable. |
You are asking me to feel sorry about an ordinary worker in Germany Lisa ?, when their forefathers slaughtered my countrymen in the last world war only a short time ago [no more than a blink of an eye, time-wise, historically].
The world largely wrote Germany's massive debts off so they could rebuild and start again, Greece has no hope of paying it off unless they live in poverty for several generations, the Greek people are not the countries decision makers, I have read that infant mortality and suicide has already gone up since Greece has been suffering austerity.
I cant speak for the Anglo Saxon types but I have more compassion than that, my stance has been for decades we should all pay more taxes and everybody should pay their tax or go to jail and have their possessions taken off them but as regards Greece the horse has bolted, its best and probably cheaper [Islamic extremists, Putin expansionism etc] to largely write Greece's debt off and start again with structures in place so it does not happen again, if not still largely wipe the debt off as you cant get blood out of a stone and let them go their own way but what happens then to Greece and us in the EU on their border happens.
We the taxpayer bailed the bankers out but it seems as if the suits wont bail the Greek people out.
I take it you want ordinary Greek people to live under severe austerity for generations and generations ???, the World was careful not to hold Germans born after the 2WW accountable for the actions of their forefathers, do you want to make future generations of Greek people suffer for things that they had no say in and in some cases weren't even born ?
The Germans are pushing this, a few suits will no doubt follow suit and I am fearful of the English position, neoliberals are pushing policies that don't work, Anglo Saxon capitalism is ruining peoples lives and one day the chickens will come home to roost. | |
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| Well done Greece! on 15:06 - Jul 6 with 1184 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Well done Greece! on 14:52 - Jul 6 by trampie |
You are asking me to feel sorry about an ordinary worker in Germany Lisa ?, when their forefathers slaughtered my countrymen in the last world war only a short time ago [no more than a blink of an eye, time-wise, historically].
The world largely wrote Germany's massive debts off so they could rebuild and start again, Greece has no hope of paying it off unless they live in poverty for several generations, the Greek people are not the countries decision makers, I have read that infant mortality and suicide has already gone up since Greece has been suffering austerity.
I cant speak for the Anglo Saxon types but I have more compassion than that, my stance has been for decades we should all pay more taxes and everybody should pay their tax or go to jail and have their possessions taken off them but as regards Greece the horse has bolted, its best and probably cheaper [Islamic extremists, Putin expansionism etc] to largely write Greece's debt off and start again with structures in place so it does not happen again, if not still largely wipe the debt off as you cant get blood out of a stone and let them go their own way but what happens then to Greece and us in the EU on their border happens.
We the taxpayer bailed the bankers out but it seems as if the suits wont bail the Greek people out.
I take it you want ordinary Greek people to live under severe austerity for generations and generations ???, the World was careful not to hold Germans born after the 2WW accountable for the actions of their forefathers, do you want to make future generations of Greek people suffer for things that they had no say in and in some cases weren't even born ?
The Germans are pushing this, a few suits will no doubt follow suit and I am fearful of the English position, neoliberals are pushing policies that don't work, Anglo Saxon capitalism is ruining peoples lives and one day the chickens will come home to roost. |
Your post is full of soundbites, casual racism, attempts to make others seem like uncaring fascists if they disagree with you and falsehood.
To summarise your position - the Germans are responsible for the sins of their forefathers, but the Greeks are not.
We should all pay more taxes, but the Greeks should not.
The rest of Europe should put up with austerity measures, in order to help out the Greeks who should not.
Oh and it's 'The English' that you are, as usual fearful of.
You forget to mention 'occupied territories' by the way - you may want to edit your post.
One of the effects of the 'anti austerity' position Greece has adopted which you so love, by the way, has been to ensure that their debt carries an interest rate of c. 15% while, for example, Ireland's debt (used as an example since they have also suffered in recent years but have accepted that it has to be sorted) carries a rate of less than 2%.
You may want to think about the effect of that difference on their respective economies. | | | |
| Well done Greece! on 15:20 - Jul 6 with 1163 views | trampie |
| Well done Greece! on 15:06 - Jul 6 by londonlisa2001 |
Your post is full of soundbites, casual racism, attempts to make others seem like uncaring fascists if they disagree with you and falsehood.
To summarise your position - the Germans are responsible for the sins of their forefathers, but the Greeks are not.
We should all pay more taxes, but the Greeks should not.
The rest of Europe should put up with austerity measures, in order to help out the Greeks who should not.
Oh and it's 'The English' that you are, as usual fearful of.
You forget to mention 'occupied territories' by the way - you may want to edit your post.
One of the effects of the 'anti austerity' position Greece has adopted which you so love, by the way, has been to ensure that their debt carries an interest rate of c. 15% while, for example, Ireland's debt (used as an example since they have also suffered in recent years but have accepted that it has to be sorted) carries a rate of less than 2%.
You may want to think about the effect of that difference on their respective economies. |
Oh not answering .....hey ?
There you go again labelling and attacking the poster and not the debate, so disappointing but you have form for it so its to be expected.
Neither the Germans or the Greeks are responsible for the sins of their forefathers.
Now are you saying that the Greeks should live under extreme austerity for generations and generations ?, that is your solution is it ? | |
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| Well done Greece! on 15:24 - Jul 6 with 1157 views | perchrockjack |
Tommy.
Every?
EVERY.
Chaque un?
Non | |
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| Well done Greece! on 15:26 - Jul 6 with 1150 views | Lord_Bony |
| Well done Greece! on 15:24 - Jul 6 by perchrockjack |
Tommy.
Every?
EVERY.
Chaque un?
Non |
Translation anyone? |  |
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| Well done Greece! on 15:30 - Jul 6 with 1139 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Well done Greece! on 15:20 - Jul 6 by trampie |
Oh not answering .....hey ?
There you go again labelling and attacking the poster and not the debate, so disappointing but you have form for it so its to be expected.
Neither the Germans or the Greeks are responsible for the sins of their forefathers.
Now are you saying that the Greeks should live under extreme austerity for generations and generations ?, that is your solution is it ? |
Read your own post again Trampie.
You started off by saying that you shouldn't feel sorry for Germans whose forefathers slaughtered your countrymen. Now you say that they are not responsible? So which is it?
And I didn't say anything at all about Greeks living under extreme austerity for generations - you are trying to twist what people say. | | | |
| Well done Greece! on 15:34 - Jul 6 with 1126 views | perchrockjack |
Not you Bony, not you.
Tommy said, every post I ,make is anti leftie.
I question that.
Chaque is French and the TDF is on.
Do ya know, its not easy being this smart and making such arcane posts. | |
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| Well done Greece! on 15:39 - Jul 6 with 1122 views | trampie |
You are not answering Lisa...............should the Greek people be made to live under extreme austerity for generations and generations to pay their debt back ? [and if mortality rates, crime, suicides, etc go up then so be it is it ?, some that would suffer are only in school now or not yet born].
I await your solution to the Greek debt problem Lisa.  | |
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| Well done Greece! on 16:21 - Jul 6 with 1084 views | Groo |
| Well done Greece! on 15:39 - Jul 6 by trampie |
You are not answering Lisa...............should the Greek people be made to live under extreme austerity for generations and generations to pay their debt back ? [and if mortality rates, crime, suicides, etc go up then so be it is it ?, some that would suffer are only in school now or not yet born].
I await your solution to the Greek debt problem Lisa. |
The problem is the Greek's don't help the Greek's.
I could see a different attitude to helping the Greek's if they took steps to fix their problems.
They are not.
Instead they borrow to pay for the excesses they pay themselves.
1. Fix their tax system
2. Fix their pension system (both age and passing pensions onto unmarried children)
3. Fix their public spending
If they don't at least try to help themselves, how the jhell do they expect everyone else in Europe to keep paying for them. | |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| Well done Greece! on 16:29 - Jul 6 with 1081 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Well done Greece! on 15:39 - Jul 6 by trampie |
You are not answering Lisa...............should the Greek people be made to live under extreme austerity for generations and generations to pay their debt back ? [and if mortality rates, crime, suicides, etc go up then so be it is it ?, some that would suffer are only in school now or not yet born].
I await your solution to the Greek debt problem Lisa. |
No Trampie. They have no need to if they start collecting taxes and stop the absurd % of their GDP that goes on pensions.
Do you know that Greece has c. 76bn Euros of uncollected taxes? In January alone, the shortfall on what was collected was 23% below its target of 4.5bn Euros.
Do you also know that it still hasn't done anything about closing the loopholes that allow people with 'hazardous working conditions' to retire early? Did you also know that the list of jobs that meet the criteria include hairdressers and people hat play the flute or clarinet? They have hundreds of thousands of claims for early retirement still waiting for processing.
Did you know that when they were ordered to have a census for pension payments just 3 years ago, they found over 400,000 pension claimants that were dodgy (including about 100,000 people that didn't exist)?
So I think that they need to put a sensible plan together to present to funders, stop playing politics for the sake of it, stop promising the people of Greece things that they can't have, and go from there.
If I went to borrow money from the bank, what do you think they'd say if (a) I went in with a proper plan, sensible projections, and some humility and (b) I went in with no costed plan, a determination to spend, spend, spend, and threats? | | | |
| Well done Greece! on 16:34 - Jul 6 with 1073 views | Groo |
Anyone who thinks what's happening in Greece is great and whoopee for the Greeks are either:
1. Criminaly Insane or
2. Own absolutely nothing that they will lose in a total collapse.
I hope when they see their lives being effected by the actions of the Greek people, they still say well done Greece. | |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| Well done Greece! on 19:13 - Jul 6 with 1005 views | perchrockjack |
Banks are only open there courtesy of money from other countries.
They are skint, yet celebrating.
It's the apogee of political dogma.
Hope it's coherent enough .
In short, madness and it won't work. There will be blood | |
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| Well done Greece! on 19:17 - Jul 6 with 1001 views | JackSomething |
| Well done Greece! on 15:34 - Jul 6 by perchrockjack |
Not you Bony, not you.
Tommy said, every post I ,make is anti leftie.
I question that.
Chaque is French and the TDF is on.
Do ya know, its not easy being this smart and making such arcane posts. |
Think how the rest of us feel trying to decipher your 'arcane' posts! |  |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Well done Greece! on 22:14 - Jul 6 with 932 views | waynekerr55 |
| Well done Greece! on 16:29 - Jul 6 by londonlisa2001 |
No Trampie. They have no need to if they start collecting taxes and stop the absurd % of their GDP that goes on pensions.
Do you know that Greece has c. 76bn Euros of uncollected taxes? In January alone, the shortfall on what was collected was 23% below its target of 4.5bn Euros.
Do you also know that it still hasn't done anything about closing the loopholes that allow people with 'hazardous working conditions' to retire early? Did you also know that the list of jobs that meet the criteria include hairdressers and people hat play the flute or clarinet? They have hundreds of thousands of claims for early retirement still waiting for processing.
Did you know that when they were ordered to have a census for pension payments just 3 years ago, they found over 400,000 pension claimants that were dodgy (including about 100,000 people that didn't exist)?
So I think that they need to put a sensible plan together to present to funders, stop playing politics for the sake of it, stop promising the people of Greece things that they can't have, and go from there.
If I went to borrow money from the bank, what do you think they'd say if (a) I went in with a proper plan, sensible projections, and some humility and (b) I went in with no costed plan, a determination to spend, spend, spend, and threats? |
They'd say you're a Tory bstard  | |
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| Well done Greece! on 22:52 - Jul 6 with 899 views | blueytheblue |
| Well done Greece! on 12:46 - Jul 6 by trampie |
The EU is a right wing creation and club. |
Wow... just... wow.... | |
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| Well done Greece! on 23:05 - Jul 6 with 885 views | pikeypaul |
| Well done Greece! on 22:52 - Jul 6 by blueytheblue |
Wow... just... wow.... |
I agree with the scummer Right wing FFS |  |
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| Well done Greece! on 23:22 - Jul 6 with 875 views | WarwickHunt |
| Well done Greece! on 23:05 - Jul 6 by pikeypaul |
I agree with the scummer Right wing FFS |
Trampie is a f*cking idiot. | | | |
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