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Wiring arrangement for light futing 22:22 - Aug 22 with 3413 viewswaynekerr55

Anyone come across this?



I'd planned to change my bathroom light, but didn't fancy going off piste as the new light fitting has the standard live neutral earth set up
[Post edited 22 Aug 2015 22:24]

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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 00:28 - Aug 23 with 3355 viewsDyfnant

It's two fooking wires Wayne, you can't go wrong

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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 07:39 - Aug 23 with 3312 viewsAnotherJohn

One cable (i.e. 1.5mm twin plus earth) is going to the switch, and one carries mains voltage from your consumer unit. It looks like the neutral (black) from the cable carrying the mains supply is connected directly to the light fitting and the live (red) wire is connected to the red of the switch cable. Then, when the switch is on, live current comes back in the second black wire causing the light to come on.

Of course, this is old wiring with red and black insulation rather than the modern brown (live) and blue (neutral). The green earth seems to be taped up and not connected. Good practice would involve putting colour coded plastic shrouding over the live from the switch so that anybody doing work knows it is live, and also making a better connection as opposed to just taping the two reds together. The earth should also be connected to the designated terminal on the light fitting.

So just to summarise; if you use your existing wiring to connect to the new light fitting then one black wire is neutral and one live, and you should also connect the earth (green). You can find out which black wire is live by using either a neon screwdriver tester (it will only light on the live - with the switch on) or a multi-meter, However, although you should aim to get things right, the operation of an ordinary light fitting won't be affected if you reverse the connections. This will affect a fluorescent tube fitting though (it will glow slightly when off).

If in doubt get advice from a qualified electrician. I am just a lay person who has done a fair bit of wiring in the past but my advice is not guaranteed.

Oh and I am still thinking about the game - how did those two ******* points not come our way?
[Post edited 23 Aug 2015 7:58]
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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 07:55 - Aug 23 with 3287 viewswaynekerr55

Wiring arrangement for light futing on 07:39 - Aug 23 by AnotherJohn

One cable (i.e. 1.5mm twin plus earth) is going to the switch, and one carries mains voltage from your consumer unit. It looks like the neutral (black) from the cable carrying the mains supply is connected directly to the light fitting and the live (red) wire is connected to the red of the switch cable. Then, when the switch is on, live current comes back in the second black wire causing the light to come on.

Of course, this is old wiring with red and black insulation rather than the modern brown (live) and blue (neutral). The green earth seems to be taped up and not connected. Good practice would involve putting colour coded plastic shrouding over the live from the switch so that anybody doing work knows it is live, and also making a better connection as opposed to just taping the two reds together. The earth should also be connected to the designated terminal on the light fitting.

So just to summarise; if you use your existing wiring to connect to the new light fitting then one black wire is neutral and one live, and you should also connect the earth (green). You can find out which black wire is live by using either a neon screwdriver tester (it will only light on the live - with the switch on) or a multi-meter, However, although you should aim to get things right, the operation of an ordinary light fitting won't be affected if you reverse the connections. This will affect a fluorescent tube fitting though (it will glow slightly when off).

If in doubt get advice from a qualified electrician. I am just a lay person who has done a fair bit of wiring in the past but my advice is not guaranteed.

Oh and I am still thinking about the game - how did those two ******* points not come our way?
[Post edited 23 Aug 2015 7:58]


Cheers John. There's two earth's also wrapped together.

Any reason why they've chosen this set up?

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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 08:08 - Aug 23 with 3270 viewsJackfath

It's cow its old init.

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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 08:20 - Aug 23 with 3263 viewsAnotherJohn

Wiring arrangement for light futing on 07:55 - Aug 23 by waynekerr55

Cheers John. There's two earth's also wrapped together.

Any reason why they've chosen this set up?


Yes, the two earth wires will be bare wires in the standard cabling, pushed inside green plastic shrouding and probably twisted together. Old-style light fittings often did not have an earth terminal, and so the electrician has probably done this to tidy the wires already there in the standard cabling. As the new fitting will have an earth terminal you can now connect them. If the wires are not long enough, strip back the insulation and shorten the red and black wires a little to match. It looks like you have a reasonable amount of cable to play with. Actually in practice there is no real danger in not earthing a plastic light fitting. That is particularly the case if you have an RCD or similar cut-out device on your consumer unit.

At the risk of opening Pandora's box I'd say this is one way to minimise any risks with old wiring in the house. An RCD, RCCB, ELCB, RCBO or similar will cut off the supply very quickly in the event of leakage to earth (for instance through your body) and save lives. This is not the same as the mini-circuit breakers found in many consumer units, but can be fitted in a lot of older ones if they have enough space.The RCBO will fit in the same space as a normal MCB but is expensive.

As regards the use of the separate switch and supply cables that is a fairly standard set-up, If the connection between the supply and the switch was made somewhere else other than near the light fitting it would be harder to see what was going on.
[Post edited 23 Aug 2015 8:52]
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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 09:26 - Aug 23 with 3213 viewswaynekerr55

Wiring arrangement for light futing on 08:20 - Aug 23 by AnotherJohn

Yes, the two earth wires will be bare wires in the standard cabling, pushed inside green plastic shrouding and probably twisted together. Old-style light fittings often did not have an earth terminal, and so the electrician has probably done this to tidy the wires already there in the standard cabling. As the new fitting will have an earth terminal you can now connect them. If the wires are not long enough, strip back the insulation and shorten the red and black wires a little to match. It looks like you have a reasonable amount of cable to play with. Actually in practice there is no real danger in not earthing a plastic light fitting. That is particularly the case if you have an RCD or similar cut-out device on your consumer unit.

At the risk of opening Pandora's box I'd say this is one way to minimise any risks with old wiring in the house. An RCD, RCCB, ELCB, RCBO or similar will cut off the supply very quickly in the event of leakage to earth (for instance through your body) and save lives. This is not the same as the mini-circuit breakers found in many consumer units, but can be fitted in a lot of older ones if they have enough space.The RCBO will fit in the same space as a normal MCB but is expensive.

As regards the use of the separate switch and supply cables that is a fairly standard set-up, If the connection between the supply and the switch was made somewhere else other than near the light fitting it would be harder to see what was going on.
[Post edited 23 Aug 2015 8:52]


Yeah we've got a RCD consumer unit fitted December 2013, I think the place was rewired around 2003 just before the standardisation of the wire colours. The spark tested the circuits and they were fine.

The only problem with the new light is that there's limited space and the wiring is awkward. I may use terminal blocks and get some more cable so that it's easier for me to fit, as it's a little awkward to put the two earth's through as it's a small space and the instructions for the light says that you have to use the supplied sheathing

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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 17:20 - Aug 23 with 3134 viewsGroo



http://homewiringguide.com/page3.htm

http://www.flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/lighting_ceiling_rose.cs4



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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 18:23 - Aug 29 with 3020 viewswaynekerr55



Followed the existing set up, with the exception of fitting the earth to the light - yet still no light. I assume that there's a fault with the light fitting itself?

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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 18:50 - Aug 29 with 3004 viewsAnotherJohn

Wiring arrangement for light futing on 18:23 - Aug 29 by waynekerr55



Followed the existing set up, with the exception of fitting the earth to the light - yet still no light. I assume that there's a fault with the light fitting itself?


Sorry but I'm not familiar with that light fitting. Does it have a fluorescent tube? If so is there a fitting with four wires for the tube and starter and is that correctly connected to the ballast? It could be this type, but I am not sure:

http://alanwinstanley.com/consumer-stuff/2014/9/22/upgrade-a-circline-fluorescen

This page also shows what the wiring is for a newer electronic ballast.

One basic step is to get a multi-meter on the two black wires and check that there is supply with the switch on (obviously being careful not to shock yourself). I am assuming that you have joined the two red wires using the third terminal block to make the setup as it was before.
[Post edited 29 Aug 2015 18:57]
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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 19:59 - Aug 29 with 2962 viewswaynekerr55

Wiring arrangement for light futing on 18:50 - Aug 29 by AnotherJohn

Sorry but I'm not familiar with that light fitting. Does it have a fluorescent tube? If so is there a fitting with four wires for the tube and starter and is that correctly connected to the ballast? It could be this type, but I am not sure:

http://alanwinstanley.com/consumer-stuff/2014/9/22/upgrade-a-circline-fluorescen

This page also shows what the wiring is for a newer electronic ballast.

One basic step is to get a multi-meter on the two black wires and check that there is supply with the switch on (obviously being careful not to shock yourself). I am assuming that you have joined the two red wires using the third terminal block to make the setup as it was before.
[Post edited 29 Aug 2015 18:57]


Hi mate

Yeah put the block so the two lives are joined, the two earth's are joined and then I ran an earth to the fitting. I then joined the two neutrals to the fitting. It's an e27 screw cap standard light with connections for live neutral and earth.

I'm 99.99% certain there's power, as the old one still works now that I've reconnected it

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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 12:07 - Aug 30 with 2894 viewsAnotherJohn

Wiring arrangement for light futing on 19:59 - Aug 29 by waynekerr55

Hi mate

Yeah put the block so the two lives are joined, the two earth's are joined and then I ran an earth to the fitting. I then joined the two neutrals to the fitting. It's an e27 screw cap standard light with connections for live neutral and earth.

I'm 99.99% certain there's power, as the old one still works now that I've reconnected it


I think I have wired an E27 light fitting in Thailand but can't remember too much about it. As far as I can see from the internet it is just a 27mm screw-type bulb lampholder, though I could be wrong. If so you could start by making sure the bulb is okay and then check the terminals that engage with the bulb with a meter,

If I were in your situation, I think that as a test I would get a short length of flex connected to a standard mains plug and connect that to the terminals of the fitting to see if there is any life.

The wiring does not seem too complicated from this description.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Wiring-E27-ES-Lampholder

Hope somebody else with experience of this type of fitting can help.
[Post edited 30 Aug 2015 12:16]
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Wiring arrangement for light futing on 12:40 - Aug 30 with 2878 viewswaynekerr55

Wiring arrangement for light futing on 12:07 - Aug 30 by AnotherJohn

I think I have wired an E27 light fitting in Thailand but can't remember too much about it. As far as I can see from the internet it is just a 27mm screw-type bulb lampholder, though I could be wrong. If so you could start by making sure the bulb is okay and then check the terminals that engage with the bulb with a meter,

If I were in your situation, I think that as a test I would get a short length of flex connected to a standard mains plug and connect that to the terminals of the fitting to see if there is any life.

The wiring does not seem too complicated from this description.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Wiring-E27-ES-Lampholder

Hope somebody else with experience of this type of fitting can help.
[Post edited 30 Aug 2015 12:16]


Yeah I'm going to take it back as when I pulled the cable out the bulb holder snapped off!

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