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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two 15:39 - Sep 15 with 39740 viewsDarran

Seeing as the other one is a mess and the mods can't be arsed on here these days.

lol
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/corbyn-refuses-to-sing-god-save-the-queen-at-battle-o

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:51 - Sep 17 with 1023 viewsUxbridge

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:42 - Sep 17 by jackonicko

Yougov have done a slightly more balanced straw poll of 1,649 people from the Great British Public.

Corbyn isn't faring so well at moment. Early days, though.

Summary results:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/17/public-doubt-corbyn-success/

Raw data at the link:

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/0f34cl5n9e/TimesR
[Post edited 17 Sep 2015 13:45]


Early days indeed, and about in line what I would expect. Hard support amongst the rank and file, but all everyone else has seen is derision from pretty much all sides. I expect movement upwards as people get used to the prospect of the High Sparrow actually being the leader of the opposition. Even Ed saw a bounce.

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:56 - Sep 17 with 1018 viewsUxbridge

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:45 - Sep 17 by londonlisa2001

They're representative of a section of it. I'm not talking bankers etc - I'm talking people that own and run businesses - mainly as it happens, in the North of England. I was in one meeting this week with a few people that between them, employ or are responsible for the employment of, at least 50,000 people in the North. I think that what they think is important.

The two biggest employers I was with are both historical Labour voters, and they are genuinely concerned. The thing is - they believe that Corbyn is the worst type of Labour - intellectual, very London centric, and with no practical experience. 'An old Trot' was the main description. The people in the meeting who were Tories just laughed.


A section, but a small section. I'm going to slip into ePaul territory soon, but if Corbyn can somehow mobilise the lapsed and idle masses then things could get interesting.

What nobody's really talked about is the impact on the Liberals. And why would they bother some would say. The irony is that Corbyn being Corbyn has pretty much taken the whole point of Fallon out of the equation. If we do see another Gang of 4 defecting across then somebody like Hunt or Umunna could be quite dangerous over there. I'm all for a bit more polarisation anyway, this constant need to haggle over the 1% in the middle depresses me.

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:58 - Sep 17 with 1009 viewsDarran

He's Donald ducked if Her Majesty is getting James Bond involved.


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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:59 - Sep 17 with 1008 viewslondonlisa2001

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:48 - Sep 17 by Uxbridge

Speaking of minds made up eh

The payrise thing's a bit cheap IMO. The job pays a certain amount. He hardly negotiated the increase. I'd agree the shadow cabinet looks a bit weak (Owen Smith FFS) but to pin that on nepotism rather ignores that anyone who was known to be semi-competent has ruled themselves out in what I can only describe as one of the biggest acts of mass arrogance I've ever seen in the political sphere, and by god there's been some competition. If those Labour MP's had a mere shred of dignity they'd resign as MP's if they can't support the democratically elected (by a massive majority) leader of the party.

Corbyn and I differ wildly on many things ... without wanting to sound worryingly like Chris Bryant I'm also relatively agnostic on the value of Trident in the 21st century but the UK's position in EU and NATO is pretty sacrosanct to me ... but his economic views are relatively mainstream in economic circles, I'm all for renationalising where privatisation has patently failed (i.e. rail) and maybe even where it could be for the national good (potentially energy, although I'd need some convincing).

In short, a lot of bitter Labour supporters are clearly writing him off from the start, or even agitating against him. This I find monumentally stupid ... what was the alternative? More of the same? Did the election pass them by? Have they failed to notice the mood of the electorate and indeed the general trend across Europe? Did they notice how abjectly they failed to enthuse voters? Here we have a man that has convinced hundreds of thousands of people to actually vote for him. People who in all likelihood didn't vote for Labour last time. And this is seen as a bad thing. Baffling.

It's about time we had a genuine political argument and choice in this country. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Tories in the next couple of years, as there's the very real prospect of Corbyn vs Osborne in 2020. That's pretty much as polarising as anything I could remember since Foot vs Thatcher, but hopefully without the conflict on the other side of the world!


Possibly.

In my defence, I think I've mentioned before that I know quite a few of the old Trendy Lefty Islington Labour types from many, many years ago, and so this isn't my first viewing of Corbyn, and nor do I necessarily believe some of the more media friendly comments he's taken to making, when compared to the stuff that he (certainly used to at least) genuinely believes.

I find it funny in some ways, but actually deeply worrying, as I hate the thought of Cameron running riot which I think he will be able to for quite some time. And interesting though the polarisation is in some ways, the thought of either Corbyn or Osborne is deeply alarming.
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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:59 - Sep 17 with 1007 viewsGroo

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 11:24 - Sep 17 by Senhin

What's the point in having Labour be a low fat version of the Tories. I still don't understand why people read right wing newspapers, believe every word they say without looking at the full story, and then try starting arguments about him with everyone.

I keep arguing with one guy I work with who keeps ranting about him being a lunatic that will get us invaded because "if we elect him he'll is going to scrap the army".

Or, if you listened to what he actually said instead of tabloid headlines...

"Wouldn't it be wonderful if every politician around the world instead of taking pride in the size of their Armed Forces did what Costa Rica have done and abolished their Army, and took pride in the fact they don't have an Army."

Outrageous. How dare he think the world would be a better place if we weren't all trying to kill each other.


Costa Rica! The Costa Rica thats virtually a state of the US, that Costa Rica?

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:00 - Sep 17 with 1001 viewslondonlisa2001

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:56 - Sep 17 by Uxbridge

A section, but a small section. I'm going to slip into ePaul territory soon, but if Corbyn can somehow mobilise the lapsed and idle masses then things could get interesting.

What nobody's really talked about is the impact on the Liberals. And why would they bother some would say. The irony is that Corbyn being Corbyn has pretty much taken the whole point of Fallon out of the equation. If we do see another Gang of 4 defecting across then somebody like Hunt or Umunna could be quite dangerous over there. I'm all for a bit more polarisation anyway, this constant need to haggle over the 1% in the middle depresses me.


Fallon removes the point of Fallon.
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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:01 - Sep 17 with 996 viewsUxbridge

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:59 - Sep 17 by Groo

Costa Rica! The Costa Rica thats virtually a state of the US, that Costa Rica?


Think you may mean Puerto Rico there

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:02 - Sep 17 with 993 viewsGroo

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:59 - Sep 17 by londonlisa2001

Possibly.

In my defence, I think I've mentioned before that I know quite a few of the old Trendy Lefty Islington Labour types from many, many years ago, and so this isn't my first viewing of Corbyn, and nor do I necessarily believe some of the more media friendly comments he's taken to making, when compared to the stuff that he (certainly used to at least) genuinely believes.

I find it funny in some ways, but actually deeply worrying, as I hate the thought of Cameron running riot which I think he will be able to for quite some time. And interesting though the polarisation is in some ways, the thought of either Corbyn or Osborne is deeply alarming.


Ever seen the movie The Last Supper?

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:04 - Sep 17 with 986 viewsUxbridge

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:59 - Sep 17 by londonlisa2001

Possibly.

In my defence, I think I've mentioned before that I know quite a few of the old Trendy Lefty Islington Labour types from many, many years ago, and so this isn't my first viewing of Corbyn, and nor do I necessarily believe some of the more media friendly comments he's taken to making, when compared to the stuff that he (certainly used to at least) genuinely believes.

I find it funny in some ways, but actually deeply worrying, as I hate the thought of Cameron running riot which I think he will be able to for quite some time. And interesting though the polarisation is in some ways, the thought of either Corbyn or Osborne is deeply alarming.


I'll be with you if, in 12 months time, he's been an abject failure. I just think the Labour party needed a total break with Blairism and to reconnect with something fundamental to its raison d'etre. That and, well, did you see the other alternatives? We'll see I guess.
[Post edited 17 Sep 2015 14:06]

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:06 - Sep 17 with 983 viewsUxbridge

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:00 - Sep 17 by londonlisa2001

Fallon removes the point of Fallon.


I'm surprised he even got the 10% of the PLP to back his nomination

Shame really. The Liberals have a real opportunity, so long as they can convince the electorate they can actually be trusted to do what they said they would or course.

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part tw on 14:11 - Sep 17 with 1007 viewsGroo

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:01 - Sep 17 by Uxbridge

Think you may mean Puerto Rico there


lol I'd better shut up then, it is early morning here :)

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part tw on 14:16 - Sep 17 with 999 viewsLohengrin

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part tw on 14:11 - Sep 17 by Groo

lol I'd better shut up then, it is early morning here :)


Crazy Cannuck!

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:18 - Sep 17 with 994 viewsJackSomething

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 13:59 - Sep 17 by Groo

Costa Rica! The Costa Rica thats virtually a state of the US, that Costa Rica?


As Ux has pointed out, you're a bit confused there. But that's missing the point anyway. Can you honestly not see what he's saying? That the world would be a far better place if armies weren't wanted or needed?

As someone pointed out (Lisa I think), it's a pretty naive thing for the leader of the opposition to say though. Lovely sentiment, but hardly practical.

You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help.

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:33 - Sep 17 with 976 viewsUxbridge

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:18 - Sep 17 by JackSomething

As Ux has pointed out, you're a bit confused there. But that's missing the point anyway. Can you honestly not see what he's saying? That the world would be a far better place if armies weren't wanted or needed?

As someone pointed out (Lisa I think), it's a pretty naive thing for the leader of the opposition to say though. Lovely sentiment, but hardly practical.


Indeed it isn't in the current climate. The bit I saw from him on this talked about resolving the social and economic issues that would reduce the need for armed forces, which is certainly something I'd support. As a species we're probably unsuited for that though.

The Trident thing I find interesting though. The current solutions offers us very little in terms of the threats the UK faces. I'm not by any means saying we should dismantle our nuclear capability, but all things should constantly be under review.

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:51 - Sep 17 with 954 viewslondonlisa2001

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:02 - Sep 17 by Groo

Ever seen the movie The Last Supper?


No.
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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:52 - Sep 17 with 952 viewslondonlisa2001

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:04 - Sep 17 by Uxbridge

I'll be with you if, in 12 months time, he's been an abject failure. I just think the Labour party needed a total break with Blairism and to reconnect with something fundamental to its raison d'etre. That and, well, did you see the other alternatives? We'll see I guess.
[Post edited 17 Sep 2015 14:06]


The people that they came up with are deeply depressing it has to be said.
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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:56 - Sep 17 with 943 viewslondonlisa2001

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:33 - Sep 17 by Uxbridge

Indeed it isn't in the current climate. The bit I saw from him on this talked about resolving the social and economic issues that would reduce the need for armed forces, which is certainly something I'd support. As a species we're probably unsuited for that though.

The Trident thing I find interesting though. The current solutions offers us very little in terms of the threats the UK faces. I'm not by any means saying we should dismantle our nuclear capability, but all things should constantly be under review.


Again though it's all a bit John Lennon and not very realistic.

The world has ben unable at any point to remove the social and economic issues that reduce the need for armed forces - largely because it still wouldn't remove the basic human instinct that leads to war in the first place.

Some wars happen because countries or people think they have less than others. Some happen because people are just greedy and power hungry. Even Corbyn himself, of course, which is presumably why he wanted the power that he now has.
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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 15:02 - Sep 17 with 937 viewsUxbridge

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 14:56 - Sep 17 by londonlisa2001

Again though it's all a bit John Lennon and not very realistic.

The world has ben unable at any point to remove the social and economic issues that reduce the need for armed forces - largely because it still wouldn't remove the basic human instinct that leads to war in the first place.

Some wars happen because countries or people think they have less than others. Some happen because people are just greedy and power hungry. Even Corbyn himself, of course, which is presumably why he wanted the power that he now has.


I was agreeing

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 15:11 - Sep 17 with 929 viewslondonlisa2001

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 15:02 - Sep 17 by Uxbridge

I was agreeing


I know - sorry, it was less a reply and more a stream of consciousness on the difference between the statements needed from governments as opposed to 'Cindy, who is representing the Great State of Texas, and wants world peace and for everyone to be nice to animals'.

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 15:20 - Sep 17 with 920 viewsperchrockjack

We actually need Cameron to run riot, at least to show basic guts which he hasn't shown previously.

Corbyn s supporters are back-pedalling somewhat no doubtbtompresent him as being a man for us all....that s those not poor, whatever that means.

Corbyn will no doubt Watertown his pitch as he can sniff power.

Our country could face state controls the like of which we ve not seen before and those not trades unionists or in poverty will see their lifestyle change to their detriment purely to feed corbyn policies.

He has not produced anything in detail as to how things will be funded but he simply cannot do any wrong.
For non trades unionist and people in well paid jobs, professions to support him is for me madness

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 15:21 - Sep 17 with 918 viewstrampie

Corbyn is still a member of a Red Tory party therefore a danger to the poor and less well off and he is a unionist which makes him a danger for some Welsh, Scots, Irish, Cornish etc

So if you are poor and a 'Celt' and patriotic then Corbyn is a massive danger, he represents an imperialistic state and the free market but in a way that may swiz a lot of people, Blair did exactly that, they could be like Swansea spies the way they position themselves as if they will act in the best interests of one group but will actually act in the interests of another group.
[Post edited 17 Sep 2015 15:22]

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 15:51 - Sep 17 with 891 viewsJackSomething

After a sober and thoughtful exchange of views, it's nice that two of our resident nutjobs returned a Corbyn thread to it's natural place on the fringe of madness.

You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help.

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 16:14 - Sep 17 with 872 viewstrampie

Corbyn cannot be trusted at this point in time, he might prove himself of course but the concern is that if he was a genuine socialist why has been a member of the Labour party for the last three decades ?

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 16:31 - Sep 17 with 857 viewsUxbridge

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 15:51 - Sep 17 by JackSomething

After a sober and thoughtful exchange of views, it's nice that two of our resident nutjobs returned a Corbyn thread to it's natural place on the fringe of madness.


I'm hopong the rest of us take the approach we did when Darren tried to interject into the thread, and simply pretend it didn't happen

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The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 16:31 - Sep 17 with 856 viewsUxbridge

The Jeremy Corbyn thread part two on 15:11 - Sep 17 by londonlisa2001

I know - sorry, it was less a reply and more a stream of consciousness on the difference between the statements needed from governments as opposed to 'Cindy, who is representing the Great State of Texas, and wants world peace and for everyone to be nice to animals'.



We could have an anecdoteoff with Dave. He's constantly referring to specific people, even if they don't exist.

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