| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:33 - Nov 24 with 2049 views | dgt73 |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:03 - Nov 24 by londonlisa2001 |
It is a dangerous game, but thankfully, I don't think Putin is quite the idiot that some seem to believe.
Neither is Obama, and I'm pretty certain the first call will have been between them.
And I'm sure Turkey in private will be told in no uncertain terms. however, a public reprimanding for, on the face of it, protecting an incursion into their own airspace is unlikely (unless we really are on the point of no return with the Turks - which we should be, in my view).
Agreed completely on the Russian airmen. |
Who are the "some" who think Putin is an idiot ? I've never heard anyone describe him as that. |  |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:35 - Nov 24 with 2054 views | Lohengrin |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:03 - Nov 24 by londonlisa2001 |
It is a dangerous game, but thankfully, I don't think Putin is quite the idiot that some seem to believe.
Neither is Obama, and I'm pretty certain the first call will have been between them.
And I'm sure Turkey in private will be told in no uncertain terms. however, a public reprimanding for, on the face of it, protecting an incursion into their own airspace is unlikely (unless we really are on the point of no return with the Turks - which we should be, in my view).
Agreed completely on the Russian airmen. |
According to Radio Four, Lisa, American analysts calculate the Russian plane infringed on Turkish airspace for a shade under two seconds and was well outside of it when brought down. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:40 - Nov 24 with 2046 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:35 - Nov 24 by Lohengrin |
According to Radio Four, Lisa, American analysts calculate the Russian plane infringed on Turkish airspace for a shade under two seconds and was well outside of it when brought down. |
I have no doubt Loh that they were in the wrong.
However, they are stating that they gave a number of warnings whilst the Russians were in the airspace, and therefore, as a Nato country, they won't be publicly reprimanded (unless it's proven that they are lying of course).
The situation with Turkey is very difficult - on the face of it, they need dealing with, however, there must be a concern that if we push them, they will turn into far more dangerous and fundamentalist state than they are at present. |  | | |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:42 - Nov 24 with 2045 views | Lohengrin |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:40 - Nov 24 by londonlisa2001 |
I have no doubt Loh that they were in the wrong.
However, they are stating that they gave a number of warnings whilst the Russians were in the airspace, and therefore, as a Nato country, they won't be publicly reprimanded (unless it's proven that they are lying of course).
The situation with Turkey is very difficult - on the face of it, they need dealing with, however, there must be a concern that if we push them, they will turn into far more dangerous and fundamentalist state than they are at present. |
Apparently there are no radio intercepts of any warnings.
Draw your own conclusions.... | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 19:46 - Nov 24 with 1993 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 12:33 - Nov 24 by Lord_Bony |
Ha haha...dont be silly now Tommy boy.,no way are we going to miss out on another war....we re goin in up to our necks on this one mate...
Cameron will put his case forward to the House of Commons next week...he ll get the vote this time on the back of the Paris bombings....Tally ho....
Feck me even the Israelis are having a pop and no one invited them to the party...yes its all brewing nicely...all we need is another major incident with all these different jets flying about the place...  |
Ideed
This lot been gagging for a war as we've been saying for a while L Bony
Nothing beats a good war when the country is in a financial mess .
Old Dai can be a war hero just like his idol ,maggie . |  |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 19:48 - Nov 24 with 1989 views | EvenThisNameIsTaken |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:40 - Nov 24 by londonlisa2001 |
I have no doubt Loh that they were in the wrong.
However, they are stating that they gave a number of warnings whilst the Russians were in the airspace, and therefore, as a Nato country, they won't be publicly reprimanded (unless it's proven that they are lying of course).
The situation with Turkey is very difficult - on the face of it, they need dealing with, however, there must be a concern that if we push them, they will turn into far more dangerous and fundamentalist state than they are at present. |
It's already that bad in Turkey. You may just see the face of turkey being the holiday resorts like marmaris. Try going to Istanbul as it is now or go further inland to see the real turkey. | |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 19:51 - Nov 24 with 1984 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 19:48 - Nov 24 by EvenThisNameIsTaken |
It's already that bad in Turkey. You may just see the face of turkey being the holiday resorts like marmaris. Try going to Istanbul as it is now or go further inland to see the real turkey. |
I've been to quite a lot of Turkey on a few occasions (once to a holiday resort, not the other times).
Istanbul is a wonderful city, but not one that I would choose to visit now for a girls' weekend. | | | |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 20:00 - Nov 24 with 1972 views | EvenThisNameIsTaken |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 19:51 - Nov 24 by londonlisa2001 |
I've been to quite a lot of Turkey on a few occasions (once to a holiday resort, not the other times).
Istanbul is a wonderful city, but not one that I would choose to visit now for a girls' weekend. |
I used to travel there a lot. It 'used' to be a very nice place to go, but over the last decade has become more dark and unwelcoming. A trip to many regions of Turkey now can be met with hostility. | |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 20:27 - Nov 24 with 1951 views | AnotherJohn |
The dark clouds do seem to be gathering. I spent some time in Ankara a few years ago preparing a report with two Turkish colleagues. There is a Westernised metropolitan elite who mingle easily with people like me and are not adverse to a visit to a Kızılay bar. But my colleagues were struggling against erosion of the secular state and growing AKP authoritarianism. Turkey was a centre for Islamic modernism in the early 20th century (with Kemalism etcetera), and scholars even wrote of the beginnings of an Islamic reformation - which would be the (as yet missing) antidote to the nasty bits in the Qur'an. Unfortunately this ran into the sand and the tide has reversed back towards fundamentalism. I felt sad walking around Ataturk's mausoleum and reflecting on how the goals of the secular state spelt out in the museum have been undermined. [Post edited 24 Nov 2015 20:30]
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 21:15 - Nov 24 with 1894 views | Humpty |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:40 - Nov 24 by londonlisa2001 |
I have no doubt Loh that they were in the wrong.
However, they are stating that they gave a number of warnings whilst the Russians were in the airspace, and therefore, as a Nato country, they won't be publicly reprimanded (unless it's proven that they are lying of course).
The situation with Turkey is very difficult - on the face of it, they need dealing with, however, there must be a concern that if we push them, they will turn into far more dangerous and fundamentalist state than they are at present. |
There is no way we would shoot down a Russian plane that entered our airspace for a few seconds. Turkeys actions are extremely irresponsible. |  | | |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 21:17 - Nov 24 with 1889 views | skippyjack |
Muslims defending other Muslims shocker. |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 21:18 - Nov 24 with 1887 views | EvenThisNameIsTaken |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 21:15 - Nov 24 by Humpty |
There is no way we would shoot down a Russian plane that entered our airspace for a few seconds. Turkeys actions are extremely irresponsible. |
Russia have had numerous aircraft within our airspace over the past few years. Warnings are issued, typhoons are scrambled and the intruding craft is 'escorted' out of the airspace.
The russians themselves are sh1ts at airspace intrusions, but on this occasion the Turkish were flat out in the wrong - and I hope there's repercussions for this! They've gotten away with a lot recently. | |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 22:07 - Nov 24 with 1856 views | Watchman |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 13:35 - Nov 24 by Lord_Bony |
Top U.S, Democrat calls on Obama to stop helping ISIS and a potential showdown with the Russians...well done that lady,talks a lot of sense here....
Tulsi Gabbard, D-Hawaii, said the U.S. and Russia are on a collision course over Syria that could result in World War III if not de-escalated.
Wolf Blitzer asked her how that collision could be avoided. Her answer was as follows:
“Very simple. The U.S. and the CIA should stop this illegal and counter-productive war to overthrow the Syrian government of Assad and should stay focused on fighting against who our enemy is, the Islamic extremist groups,” she said. “Because right now we’re seeing why this is counter-productive, by working towards that end, by working toward the overthrow of Assad we are not only strengthening our enemy, the Islamic extremists, who will walk in and take over all of the country Syria, right now they have about half of the country under their control, but it also puts us in that position of a potential direct head to head conflict with Russia which brings us to the brink of a potential larger conflict, a potential World War III situation.”
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/11/democrat-outs-obama-hes-arming-our-enemies-in-syria/# |
or maybe both sides are keeping their military happy with a small theatre of war operation where none of the 'big boys'get hurt |  |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 22:18 - Nov 24 with 1844 views | jackportis |
Country could do with a war. |  |
| Jackportis the brand. “A gifted posterâ€, “planet swans have a real talent on their hands in the name of Jackportis†sky sports 2018. . JP fully supports posters of LBG, mx orientation and ethnic minority groups. Update - now fully supporting the pansexual community. |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 23:53 - Nov 24 with 1786 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:31 - Nov 24 by Private_Partz |
I agree we are at point if no return with the Turks. We have had countless incursions into airspace throughout Europe. Why on earth do they pick a moment like this to shoot down the aircraft and a Russion one at that.
I thought the flight map evidence they used was decidedly dodgy as well. I am open to correction here but the area is minute compared of the size of Turkey. How an earth they got ten warnings in I will never know. |
It must have taken fully thirty seconds to cross that minute sliver of land , virtually surrounded on 3 sides by Syria.
I've been pretty much sickened by what Obama and Hollannde had to say in response, siding completely with the Turks over a miniscule transgression over a confused border area. It's yet to be truly determined just exactly where the fighter was when it was hit. The destruction of the rescue helicopter by U.S. trained Turkumen with U.S. armourments will infuriate the Kremlin even further.
It would incredible to think that the Turks haven't premeditated this attack ever since the Russians got involved in Syria. The main reason seems to be that the Russians have disrupted the oil flow from Isistan to Turkey , and as Tagip Erdogan's son was (allegedly) heavily involved in it's transportation through Syria into Turkey. They recently destroyed most of his vehicles in bombing raids, taking a vast amount of money out of his pockets.
The Turks are reluying heavily on their Nato protection payments for this (they would never have done anything like this without their minders looking out for them), and I do think Russia will definitely avenge herself over Turkey's provocation. We'll see just how much this NATO "blanket" of friends will rally around if Russia decides to take millitarty action directly against Ankara.
Anyhow, Turkey should have been stripped of her NATO membership for invading the Repubic of Cyprus in 1974 and forcibly partitioning the island. Stank then and it still stinks now. [Post edited 24 Nov 2015 23:58]
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| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 09:49 - Nov 25 with 1713 views | perchrockjack |
Cyprus was invaded to protect Turkish speakers in the island. Greeks butchered many Turkish Cypriots.
Depend which way you see things.
I agree with brynmill.
Istanbul not a place for girls weekend because... You would be seen as virtual prostitutes on tour exposing too much flesh and acting without husband s permission.
Islam eh | |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 10:03 - Nov 25 with 1706 views | pikeypaul |
Brynmilljack sums it up perfectly.
The time range from various sources that the aircraft was in Turkish airspace ranges from
a maximum 18secs to a minimum of 2secd.
Turkey were obviously eager to bring a Rissian plane down.
The way the US have defended Turkey says everything about them.
Although even the US have now said the jet was over Syria when shot down
not Turkey which if true Russia have every reason and right to retaliate
and no way should we in NATO defend the Turks. [Post edited 25 Nov 2015 10:07]
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 10:10 - Nov 25 with 1699 views | Nogginthenog |
Putin summed it up quite well, stabbed in the back by terrorist sympathisers. This act by Turkey is completely unforgivable given that the UN only just made a resolution that all countries should unite against IS. A minor transgression like this should not lead to the destruction of a Russian aircraft , the death of 1 pilot and a marine sent to rescue him. Completely out of order. NATO is a busted flush with the Turks in the mix. |  | | |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 10:44 - Nov 25 with 1686 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
It's all about OIL
It's always been about the OIL
not religion , it's about money & power
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The west marched into Iraq for this reason only . | |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 10:49 - Nov 25 with 1681 views | Lord_Bony |
The Turks will play both sides in times of war...dangerous.
We should not allow them to join the EU mainly because half of the country is in Asia. |  |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 12:50 - Nov 25 with 1629 views | trampie |
Turkey playing NATO................ what the Turks did was well naughty.
What religion are the Russians ?, what religion are the Turks ?, what side was the Russians on in the World Wars ? and what side did the Turks fire on in the World wars ?
The English lead British Government are nearly always on the wrong side in recent conflicts.
They would have had us fight alongside ISIS a couple of years ago and now it seems like they will have us fight alongside Al-Qaeda affiliates if they have their own way.
The Russians don't seem to discriminate against terrorists in the region, taking the if it looks like a terrorist, acts like a terrorist then it probably is a terrorist line, where as our Government and the Americans seem to cosy up to groups that others would describe as out and out terrorists. |  |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 13:11 - Nov 25 with 1610 views | trampie |
One lot say the plane was over Turkey for 2 seconds, yet had 10 warnings, those Turks talk quick don't they, the plane came down in Syria, the pilots would have ejected immediately and they landed in Syria,............. hmm.
What was the Turks playing at ?, the Russians are fighting a war against terrorists and the Turks do that, well out of order.
And the Brit Nats UK Government backing the Turks in the circumstance is also well out of order. | |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 13:38 - Nov 25 with 1598 views | Groo |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 12:50 - Nov 25 by trampie |
Turkey playing NATO................ what the Turks did was well naughty.
What religion are the Russians ?, what religion are the Turks ?, what side was the Russians on in the World Wars ? and what side did the Turks fire on in the World wars ?
The English lead British Government are nearly always on the wrong side in recent conflicts.
They would have had us fight alongside ISIS a couple of years ago and now it seems like they will have us fight alongside Al-Qaeda affiliates if they have their own way.
The Russians don't seem to discriminate against terrorists in the region, taking the if it looks like a terrorist, acts like a terrorist then it probably is a terrorist line, where as our Government and the Americans seem to cosy up to groups that others would describe as out and out terrorists. |
In World War 1, Russia's alliance with Serbia and their pact to defend them dragged the whole of Europe into a war after Serbian sponsored terrorists assasinated the heir to the Austrian/Hungarian Empire. Germany's alliance with Austria and Frances with Russia ensured everyone was involved.
Russia after being a main trigger in the war self imploded resulting in the revolution and the Bolshoviks made peace with Germay leaving the rest of us to it.
In World War 2, they signed a peace treaty with Hitler and carved up Poland with them, only joining the war when Hitler in desperation for the Russian oil fields attacked Russia. |  |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 13:39 - Nov 25 with 1594 views | Groo |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 12:50 - Nov 25 by trampie |
Turkey playing NATO................ what the Turks did was well naughty.
What religion are the Russians ?, what religion are the Turks ?, what side was the Russians on in the World Wars ? and what side did the Turks fire on in the World wars ?
The English lead British Government are nearly always on the wrong side in recent conflicts.
They would have had us fight alongside ISIS a couple of years ago and now it seems like they will have us fight alongside Al-Qaeda affiliates if they have their own way.
The Russians don't seem to discriminate against terrorists in the region, taking the if it looks like a terrorist, acts like a terrorist then it probably is a terrorist line, where as our Government and the Americans seem to cosy up to groups that others would describe as out and out terrorists. |
When did we fight alongside ISIS? | |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 13:40 - Nov 25 with 1593 views | Groo |
| Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 12:50 - Nov 25 by trampie |
Turkey playing NATO................ what the Turks did was well naughty.
What religion are the Russians ?, what religion are the Turks ?, what side was the Russians on in the World Wars ? and what side did the Turks fire on in the World wars ?
The English lead British Government are nearly always on the wrong side in recent conflicts.
They would have had us fight alongside ISIS a couple of years ago and now it seems like they will have us fight alongside Al-Qaeda affiliates if they have their own way.
The Russians don't seem to discriminate against terrorists in the region, taking the if it looks like a terrorist, acts like a terrorist then it probably is a terrorist line, where as our Government and the Americans seem to cosy up to groups that others would describe as out and out terrorists. |
Some of those so called terrorists are rebels fighting to remove a dictator. | |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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