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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 07:37 - Apr 26 by Kilkennyjack
Lets hope people realise that old Labour was killed by Blair and his mob and has let working people down by putting forward that unelectable odd ball red Ed. plaid is now led by the Rhonda rebel and is no longer a party solely defined by the language issue. Lets give our lovely Leanne the chance to speak up for Wales. She will as well. The polls are looking good - if you believe such things.
Yip
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Just to put that into context, that's £41m less than they spent on the Millenium Centre. Funny how they mention it just before the election isn't it? Nice to see Peter Black highlight that we shouldn't have to beg for this grant, if it was Cardiff the money would've already been given. Pathetic from Welsh Labour, as always. Cue Nice2Michu telling us what a good offer this is and why we should all vote Labour...
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:49 - Apr 25 by Private_Partz
Come on NTM. You can do better than that. Tell us that Swansea and the rest of Wales has benefitted from Welsh Labour on equal terms to the South East. With examples of course ;-).
Private Partz - I don't think I can do better than that actually mate haha. The circular nature of this thread does get quite tiring. Like I've said before, I agree that investment has been skewed to the SE, and that is something that should be addressed over the next five years.
But we must also remember that it is the Soith-East, not just Cardiff. In the Cardiff City region deal, there are nine local authorities involved with the plans. The South-East is home to two-thirds of the population as well. Yet, I agree that investment is skewed and the Welsh Government ought to address that. But I do not agree that it is as skewed as some on here are suggesting. For example, an M4 relief road is so obviously not going to benefit the SE only, it is a benefit for South Wales. It is also a project that was going to go ahead regardless of the Welsh Government. The U.K. Government allocated resources for this project, and not to be used on a transport project on the Fabian Way, for example. They identified a need, and allowed the Welsh Government to implement and oversee the project.
CopperJack - are we really going to do this dance again? I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but you seem completely unable to even understand my point of view.
At the local authority level, I would argue that the Labour-run council is in good hands since Rob Stewart took over and performed admirably in the face of unprecedented cuts to their budget. Further, they are overseeing the largest investment in Swansea in its history (with mostly private funds, I know).
At the Assembly level, there hasn't been enough investment from the Assembly, as I've already acknowledged. in terms of handling constituents, of course you're going to have people who say "I didn't get a response for two weeks" etc etc, but they are in the minority (you are less likely to hear about positive reviews on this site or in the paper, that's true of representatives of all parties, and just the way of the world).
All the Swansea-based AMs are highly regarded by the trade unions, something which is not guaranteed just because it is the Labour Party (see the firefighters union).
Kerouac - I didn't bring up Mike Hedges intelligence, you did. I just stated that I think that your opinion is unfounded and just proves your trolling for trolling sake.
Private Partz/CopperJack - my view should be clear by now, the biggest decisions take place in Westminster. The campaign to put a Labour Party leader into no.10 has already started. Unfortunately for you guys, the vast majority of people do not split their votes (i.e. vote for one party at the local level, then vote for another at the national level). Therefore, at a crucial moment in the left-wing movement, a time where there is a clear chance to put a socialist into no.10, you are arguing that "Labour is rubbish, Plaid are awesome" etc etc and I am certain that this is way more destructive than you realise.
All three of the Swansea-based AMs supported Corbyn, for your information. I've personally heard two of them talk in favour of him prior to the leadership election.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 09:11 - Apr 26 with 1540 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 08:50 - Apr 26 by nice_to_michu
Private Partz - I don't think I can do better than that actually mate haha. The circular nature of this thread does get quite tiring. Like I've said before, I agree that investment has been skewed to the SE, and that is something that should be addressed over the next five years.
But we must also remember that it is the Soith-East, not just Cardiff. In the Cardiff City region deal, there are nine local authorities involved with the plans. The South-East is home to two-thirds of the population as well. Yet, I agree that investment is skewed and the Welsh Government ought to address that. But I do not agree that it is as skewed as some on here are suggesting. For example, an M4 relief road is so obviously not going to benefit the SE only, it is a benefit for South Wales. It is also a project that was going to go ahead regardless of the Welsh Government. The U.K. Government allocated resources for this project, and not to be used on a transport project on the Fabian Way, for example. They identified a need, and allowed the Welsh Government to implement and oversee the project.
CopperJack - are we really going to do this dance again? I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but you seem completely unable to even understand my point of view.
At the local authority level, I would argue that the Labour-run council is in good hands since Rob Stewart took over and performed admirably in the face of unprecedented cuts to their budget. Further, they are overseeing the largest investment in Swansea in its history (with mostly private funds, I know).
At the Assembly level, there hasn't been enough investment from the Assembly, as I've already acknowledged. in terms of handling constituents, of course you're going to have people who say "I didn't get a response for two weeks" etc etc, but they are in the minority (you are less likely to hear about positive reviews on this site or in the paper, that's true of representatives of all parties, and just the way of the world).
All the Swansea-based AMs are highly regarded by the trade unions, something which is not guaranteed just because it is the Labour Party (see the firefighters union).
Kerouac - I didn't bring up Mike Hedges intelligence, you did. I just stated that I think that your opinion is unfounded and just proves your trolling for trolling sake.
Private Partz/CopperJack - my view should be clear by now, the biggest decisions take place in Westminster. The campaign to put a Labour Party leader into no.10 has already started. Unfortunately for you guys, the vast majority of people do not split their votes (i.e. vote for one party at the local level, then vote for another at the national level). Therefore, at a crucial moment in the left-wing movement, a time where there is a clear chance to put a socialist into no.10, you are arguing that "Labour is rubbish, Plaid are awesome" etc etc and I am certain that this is way more destructive than you realise.
All three of the Swansea-based AMs supported Corbyn, for your information. I've personally heard two of them talk in favour of him prior to the leadership election.
Finally, I agree with you. Rob Steward has done an excellent job in the face on stinging cuts and no public investment. If he delivers these plans, he's an absolute genius - but it's a huge IF because of the lack of public investment. I doubt they'll back the plans, this £6m will disappear after the election, which is why they're not committing to it before the election, only saying they 'may' invest it.
If Labour get thrown out in Wales, it'll be their fault when they lose their well-paid jobs and start seeing austerity. They've ostracised huge swathes of this country with this myopic Cardiff-centric policies.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 19:30 - Apr 25 by Kerouac
I'd like to hear all about Mike Hedges' many achievements also.
I mentioned earlier about Mike Hedges including the Liberty extension in his list of positive things happening in Swansea East. I sent him an email on 26/08 telling him about this thread and suggesting he should read what's being said and perhaps join in and respond to the criticism. Here is his email response.
***************************************************** Yes I read the comments
I was rather surprised at the view that “I toe the party line” especially as I do not think there is one
Talking only about Swansea East
We currently have
SA1 development under construction Tidal lagoon plans well under way Swansea Vale mixed development now completed Liberty stadium expansion plans New schools at Burlais which is nearly complete and Lon Las about to start construction Electrification of Swansea to London mainline Road improvements around the Hafod with the new distributor road
Yes I want more investment in Swansea East I live here, my family live here and I am committed to the area
Mike *********************************************** SA! development. An incredibly vague answer. SA1 has been in development for years. What part of it is he talking about and how much have the WAG put towards it. That's what is needed because investment around Wales was the whole point of our conversation. Tidal Lagoon plans well under way - Tidal Lagoon plans actually not under way and possibly will never happen. Swansea Vale mixed development now completed - don't know what he means. Liberty Stadium extension plans - told you so. If it ever happens it will have had nothing to do with him or the WAG. New schools - nowhere in anyone's comments about investment has anybody made any reference to new schools. It's got nothing to do with what we were talking about which was infrastructure investment. Electrification of Swansea to London mainline - the Cardiff /Swansea section already delayed by a couple of years and won't be happening till 2020 or later, if at all. Road improvements - Hafod distributor road - the ONLY reference to infrastructure investment and the amount was about £2 million.
This is a pitiful answer to the questions raised. I can't understand why he would think that this answers any of the points about infrastructure investment put to him.
So Labour 12 % down on the same time in the last electoral cycle.
It looks like a lot of the Labour voters who would vote for them even if Hitler was their leader are passing away and being replaced by people who do not vote labour just because their father did or through family tradition.
If this current trend continues in a relatively short time Labour are going to have to work for the vote in Wales unlike the past 100 years when it's been handed on a plate by the sheep.
OUT AFLI SUCK IT UP REMOANER LOSERS
🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 10:05 - Apr 26 by johnlangy
I mentioned earlier about Mike Hedges including the Liberty extension in his list of positive things happening in Swansea East. I sent him an email on 26/08 telling him about this thread and suggesting he should read what's being said and perhaps join in and respond to the criticism. Here is his email response.
***************************************************** Yes I read the comments
I was rather surprised at the view that “I toe the party line” especially as I do not think there is one
Talking only about Swansea East
We currently have
SA1 development under construction Tidal lagoon plans well under way Swansea Vale mixed development now completed Liberty stadium expansion plans New schools at Burlais which is nearly complete and Lon Las about to start construction Electrification of Swansea to London mainline Road improvements around the Hafod with the new distributor road
Yes I want more investment in Swansea East I live here, my family live here and I am committed to the area
Mike *********************************************** SA! development. An incredibly vague answer. SA1 has been in development for years. What part of it is he talking about and how much have the WAG put towards it. That's what is needed because investment around Wales was the whole point of our conversation. Tidal Lagoon plans well under way - Tidal Lagoon plans actually not under way and possibly will never happen. Swansea Vale mixed development now completed - don't know what he means. Liberty Stadium extension plans - told you so. If it ever happens it will have had nothing to do with him or the WAG. New schools - nowhere in anyone's comments about investment has anybody made any reference to new schools. It's got nothing to do with what we were talking about which was infrastructure investment. Electrification of Swansea to London mainline - the Cardiff /Swansea section already delayed by a couple of years and won't be happening till 2020 or later, if at all. Road improvements - Hafod distributor road - the ONLY reference to infrastructure investment and the amount was about £2 million.
This is a pitiful answer to the questions raised. I can't understand why he would think that this answers any of the points about infrastructure investment put to him.
That's embarrassing. When will they stop taking credit for stuff they're not financing?
Rail electrification, IF it happens, is Westminster.
Liberty expansion, IF it happens, is paid for by the club.
SA1 development, they sold the land and instead of using the money to create a marina, they spent it elsewhere in Wales - I wonder where?
Again, a pitiful list in comparison to the hundreds of millions they pumped into Cardiff Bay/St Davids and everything else. Sums up Labour's response perfectly - they don't have one.
So Labour 12 % down on the same time in the last electoral cycle.
It looks like a lot of the Labour voters who would vote for them even if Hitler was their leader are passing away and being replaced by people who do not vote labour just because their father did or through family tradition.
If this current trend continues in a relatively short time Labour are going to have to work for the vote in Wales unlike the past 100 years when it's been handed on a plate by the sheep.
So, So bang on and profound what you said there! And still the deluded, complacent tw#ts are offering peanuts!....... And still Morriston Hospital has abysmal parking problems after all those years of WAG.................But hey! We should count ourselves lucky in their minds, cos if we should ever want to see Madame Butterfly , Tosca and opera at the best subsidised white-elephant in town i.e. Cardiff they've trumped around £70 Million to cater for 'our' *cough. cough, cough* needs!!!!!!!
Argus!
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 17:28 - Apr 26 with 1449 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 09:11 - Apr 26 by CopperJack
Finally, I agree with you. Rob Steward has done an excellent job in the face on stinging cuts and no public investment. If he delivers these plans, he's an absolute genius - but it's a huge IF because of the lack of public investment. I doubt they'll back the plans, this £6m will disappear after the election, which is why they're not committing to it before the election, only saying they 'may' invest it.
If Labour get thrown out in Wales, it'll be their fault when they lose their well-paid jobs and start seeing austerity. They've ostracised huge swathes of this country with this myopic Cardiff-centric policies.
If Labour get thrown out of Wales, as you so desire, will you take the blame for guaranteeing another Conservative government in 2020 and beyond?
No, I expect you shall not. Of course, I'm not insinuating that you would be wholly responsible for consecutive Tory government in Westminster. But surely you understand the connection between the two? The nationalists in Scotland whipped up a storm and bashed Labour for a few years, demanded a referendum, and subsequently got one (and lost). They bashed Labour at the general election and took over 50 seats. Great, woohoo. And for what? They already lost the referendum and have now made it extremely difficult for anyone to challenge the neo-conservatism in Westminster, of which significantly restrains the ability to deliver services here in Wales (no matter who is in power in Cardiff).
If it turned out that this will happen in Wales, and the all-too-predictable consequences come true, will you be satisfied? Have you contributed in a meaningful way to the socialist movement that you claim to admire?
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 17:50 - Apr 26 with 1438 views
Labour are nearly as right wing as the Conservatives, I seen Labour being described as Tory-Lite on a rugby message-board today, it makes little difference if its the Conservatives or the Red Tories in power, that's why any left leaning people should vote for a bona fide left of centre party like Plaid.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 17:28 - Apr 26 by nice_to_michu
If Labour get thrown out of Wales, as you so desire, will you take the blame for guaranteeing another Conservative government in 2020 and beyond?
No, I expect you shall not. Of course, I'm not insinuating that you would be wholly responsible for consecutive Tory government in Westminster. But surely you understand the connection between the two? The nationalists in Scotland whipped up a storm and bashed Labour for a few years, demanded a referendum, and subsequently got one (and lost). They bashed Labour at the general election and took over 50 seats. Great, woohoo. And for what? They already lost the referendum and have now made it extremely difficult for anyone to challenge the neo-conservatism in Westminster, of which significantly restrains the ability to deliver services here in Wales (no matter who is in power in Cardiff).
If it turned out that this will happen in Wales, and the all-too-predictable consequences come true, will you be satisfied? Have you contributed in a meaningful way to the socialist movement that you claim to admire?
Well Labour need never be thrown out of Wales if they start investing and governing the whole of Wales instead of just Cardiff and its environs. You say it is slightly skewed and quote the billion pound Brynglas route coming out of a different pot. Westminster money and the need was identified. Identified by whom? The same people that went cap in hand to Westminster to ensure HMRC was centralised in a new build in Cardiff I would wager. It is not just slightly skewed it is massive and it would seem our Northern brothers and sisters are not nearly so complacent. They feel completely disenfranchised but unfortunately lump Swansea in with it as they see it as a North v South thingy. It is pointless wringing your hands over the future of Welsh Labour whilst allowing the status quo to continue. There are a few of the old guard retiring in Cardiff Bay and a few more are going to fall victim of the continuing trend and lose their seats. Let's hope their replacements are far more savvy and tuned in to the needs of the whole of Wales. Not just their own back yard as Huw Edwards pointed out many years ago.
[Post edited 26 Apr 2016 18:07]
You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:07 - Apr 26 with 1425 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 17:50 - Apr 26 by trampie
Labour are nearly as right wing as the Conservatives, I seen Labour being described as Tory-Lite on a rugby message-board today, it makes little difference if its the Conservatives or the Red Tories in power, that's why any left leaning people should vote for a bona fide left of centre party like Plaid.
It's going to be hilarious if the lovely Lianne gets removed as leader in the summer and replaced by the more traditional right-wing nationalists that stock Plaid and have done for years.
More to the point, Plaid haven't ruled out doing a deal with the Tories yet. If Labour drop below 26 I wouldn't be surprised if Plaid and Lianne tried to pass a budget with Tory backing.
What would you say to a Plaid/Tory/maybe lib dem coalition in the Summer Tramps?
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:18 - Apr 26 with 1416 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:07 - Apr 26 by acejack3065
It's going to be hilarious if the lovely Lianne gets removed as leader in the summer and replaced by the more traditional right-wing nationalists that stock Plaid and have done for years.
More to the point, Plaid haven't ruled out doing a deal with the Tories yet. If Labour drop below 26 I wouldn't be surprised if Plaid and Lianne tried to pass a budget with Tory backing.
What would you say to a Plaid/Tory/maybe lib dem coalition in the Summer Tramps?
I do not know what Trampie would say but what I would say would be thank f#ck those Thatcherite right-wing enemies of social justice and equality have gone to be replaced by a (by comparison) left wing coalition of Tories and Plaid...... oh and also?......."What a shower of sh#t those Welsh Labour Red Tories really were, hallelujah!!!!!!!
[Post edited 26 Apr 2016 18:18]
Argus!
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:24 - Apr 26 with 1411 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:07 - Apr 26 by acejack3065
It's going to be hilarious if the lovely Lianne gets removed as leader in the summer and replaced by the more traditional right-wing nationalists that stock Plaid and have done for years.
More to the point, Plaid haven't ruled out doing a deal with the Tories yet. If Labour drop below 26 I wouldn't be surprised if Plaid and Lianne tried to pass a budget with Tory backing.
What would you say to a Plaid/Tory/maybe lib dem coalition in the Summer Tramps?
Who are these right wing nationalists in Plaid ?, Adam Price or Rhun ap Iorwerth are seen as successors to Ms Wood, wasn't Price a socialist before he became a nationalist ?
Plaid should do a deal to get power in certain circumstances as there is little difference between Labour and the Conservatives, if it means Plaid leading a coalition Government then i'm all for it. Plaid have ruled out a formal coalition with the Conservatives but if it was me considering there is little difference between the Conservatives and Labour and if Plaid were the biggest party in a coalition I would go for it. Pity the Lib-Dems and Greens are so poor as they would be less controversial coalitions for Plaid.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:07 - Apr 26 by acejack3065
It's going to be hilarious if the lovely Lianne gets removed as leader in the summer and replaced by the more traditional right-wing nationalists that stock Plaid and have done for years.
More to the point, Plaid haven't ruled out doing a deal with the Tories yet. If Labour drop below 26 I wouldn't be surprised if Plaid and Lianne tried to pass a budget with Tory backing.
What would you say to a Plaid/Tory/maybe lib dem coalition in the Summer Tramps?
Very true.
Also interesting to note that Plaid Cymru's candidate in Cardiff said that he "couldn't agree more" with the right-wing mouthpiece, Katie Hopkins, and her abhorrent views on disabled people and those on benefits.
Plaid Cymru aren't left-wing in their core, let's not kid ourselves.
You are a troll, Trampie, but not a very good one. You like to write nonsense (sometimes about something completely irrelevant to the thread) immediately after someone else has made a contribution to the discussion. It's a childish and transparent way to change the discussion.
We are trying to have an adult discussion here, fella.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:33 - Apr 26 with 1393 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:28 - Apr 26 by nice_to_michu
Very true.
Also interesting to note that Plaid Cymru's candidate in Cardiff said that he "couldn't agree more" with the right-wing mouthpiece, Katie Hopkins, and her abhorrent views on disabled people and those on benefits.
Plaid Cymru aren't left-wing in their core, let's not kid ourselves.
You are a troll, Trampie, but not a very good one. You like to write nonsense (sometimes about something completely irrelevant to the thread) immediately after someone else has made a contribution to the discussion. It's a childish and transparent way to change the discussion.
We are trying to have an adult discussion here, fella.
How can you possibly call Trampie a troll? I have read his stuff and see absolutely no problem with it whatsoever? Please a bit of respect here!
Argus!
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:35 - Apr 26 with 1391 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:24 - Apr 26 by trampie
Who are these right wing nationalists in Plaid ?, Adam Price or Rhun ap Iorwerth are seen as successors to Ms Wood, wasn't Price a socialist before he became a nationalist ?
Plaid should do a deal to get power in certain circumstances as there is little difference between Labour and the Conservatives, if it means Plaid leading a coalition Government then i'm all for it. Plaid have ruled out a formal coalition with the Conservatives but if it was me considering there is little difference between the Conservatives and Labour and if Plaid were the biggest party in a coalition I would go for it. Pity the Lib-Dems and Greens are so poor as they would be less controversial coalitions for Plaid.
So you hate Labour because they are too similar to the conservatives but are happy to see Plaid do a deal with the actual conservative party?
Ok then!
Remember all the nasty right wing things the Labour Party has done in Wales like capping student fees, preserving EMA, keeping privatisation out of the NHS, extending flying start, free bus passes, I could go on, and then enjoy watching Plaid, apparently a real left wing party, do a deal with the conservatives who oppose almost all of those things.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:37 - Apr 26 with 1386 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:03 - Apr 26 by Private_Partz
Well Labour need never be thrown out of Wales if they start investing and governing the whole of Wales instead of just Cardiff and its environs. You say it is slightly skewed and quote the billion pound Brynglas route coming out of a different pot. Westminster money and the need was identified. Identified by whom? The same people that went cap in hand to Westminster to ensure HMRC was centralised in a new build in Cardiff I would wager. It is not just slightly skewed it is massive and it would seem our Northern brothers and sisters are not nearly so complacent. They feel completely disenfranchised but unfortunately lump Swansea in with it as they see it as a North v South thingy. It is pointless wringing your hands over the future of Welsh Labour whilst allowing the status quo to continue. There are a few of the old guard retiring in Cardiff Bay and a few more are going to fall victim of the continuing trend and lose their seats. Let's hope their replacements are far more savvy and tuned in to the needs of the whole of Wales. Not just their own back yard as Huw Edwards pointed out many years ago.
[Post edited 26 Apr 2016 18:07]
So my main point about how predictabie it is that, a Plaid-led Wales would all but guarantee the Tories win in Westminster for decades, is not recognised by you again.
I get it, you say it's a protest vote. That's what some SNP supporters said, and before they knew it the people they elected into power used it is a platform to bash the Labour Party at a general election, with dire consequences.
It is so obvious. It's happened in other countries too. But it has also happened here in the UK, very recently.
[Post edited 26 Apr 2016 18:38]
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:39 - Apr 26 with 1384 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:28 - Apr 26 by nice_to_michu
Very true.
Also interesting to note that Plaid Cymru's candidate in Cardiff said that he "couldn't agree more" with the right-wing mouthpiece, Katie Hopkins, and her abhorrent views on disabled people and those on benefits.
Plaid Cymru aren't left-wing in their core, let's not kid ourselves.
You are a troll, Trampie, but not a very good one. You like to write nonsense (sometimes about something completely irrelevant to the thread) immediately after someone else has made a contribution to the discussion. It's a childish and transparent way to change the discussion.
We are trying to have an adult discussion here, fella.
You are the troll not me, you want along with other red Tory types for me to be banned from this site to shut down debate, because you cant beat me in a debate, lol.
Plaid are left wing, Labour are right wing, Plaid are more old Labour than old Labour.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:39 - Apr 26 by trampie
You are the troll not me, you want along with other red Tory types for me to be banned from this site to shut down debate, because you cant beat me in a debate, lol.
Plaid are left wing, Labour are right wing, Plaid are more old Labour than old Labour.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:52 - Apr 26 with 1363 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 18:37 - Apr 26 by nice_to_michu
So my main point about how predictabie it is that, a Plaid-led Wales would all but guarantee the Tories win in Westminster for decades, is not recognised by you again.
I get it, you say it's a protest vote. That's what some SNP supporters said, and before they knew it the people they elected into power used it is a platform to bash the Labour Party at a general election, with dire consequences.
It is so obvious. It's happened in other countries too. But it has also happened here in the UK, very recently.
[Post edited 26 Apr 2016 18:38]
It makes little difference as Labour are Tory-Lite or Red Tories, these are common phrases used by people and not just me, if you are left wing then it makes no difference if Labour or the Conservatives are in power in Westminster as they are both neoliberal parties.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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