| Ken Livingstone 14:02 - Apr 28 with 21445 views | Darran |
C*nt,end of.
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| Ken Livingstone on 21:17 - Apr 28 with 1465 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Ken Livingstone on 21:13 - Apr 28 by acejack3065 |
This isn't about Israels treatment of Palestinians. This is about the appalling way Ken has dealt with the issue and the context behind it i.e the defending of someone suspended from the Labour Party over allegations of using anti-Semitic language.
Lets be clear here. To criticise Israel isn't to be an anti-Semite. To defend Israel isn't to be a Zionist. This has become a poisonous and poorly handled debate in Britain as far as I'm concerned. People who harbour anti-Semitic views are all too quick and ready to fire their bile and hatred towards Jewish people under the guise of criticising Israel. People also feel the debate has been stifled somewhat because those criticising Israel have sometimes unfairly been labelled as anti-semitic.
In this instance Ken has behaved totally unacceptably and his mask has slipped. He needs to be shown the door, pronto. |
Exactly this. All of it. |  |
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| Ken Livingstone on 21:17 - Apr 28 with 1465 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Ken Livingstone on 16:08 - Apr 28 by londonlisa2001 |
There is a very real problem amongst certain elements of the Labour Party where they fall over themselves to such an extent in support of the Palestinians that they become quite blatantly anti Semitic.
This is one of those occasions and it's completely right that he's finally been suspended.
The original remark that started all this was quite obviously anti Semitic and Livingstone trying to justify it by citing Hitler was beyond what could be termed reasonable. [Post edited 28 Apr 2016 16:10]
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And this too. | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 21:18 - Apr 28 with 1465 views | blueytheblue |
| Ken Livingstone on 21:06 - Apr 28 by oh_tommy_tommy |
So it's ok then .
I get you . |
You want a dumbed down world view, Israel - Palestinians.
That's incredibly stupid on your part. PA / Hamas / Fatah activities are hardly condusive to harmony... if Israel didn't exist, Hamas and Fatah would be stuck in endless civil wars.
Fatah are secular, Hamas Sunni for the most part. You've got natural tensions all around.
Hamas want war, want dead Jews. Fatah are just a bunch of crooks.
Human rights watch, oft criticised by Israel themselves have pointed out that by firing rockets at civilians is a war crime. People seem to want to ignore that salient part; just because Iron Dome works, it's ok?
You're looking for black and white when it's a mirky shade of grey. |  |
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| Ken Livingstone on 21:21 - Apr 28 with 1444 views | Darran |
Did you make that up too? | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 21:33 - Apr 28 with 1425 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Ken Livingstone on 21:18 - Apr 28 by blueytheblue |
You want a dumbed down world view, Israel - Palestinians.
That's incredibly stupid on your part. PA / Hamas / Fatah activities are hardly condusive to harmony... if Israel didn't exist, Hamas and Fatah would be stuck in endless civil wars.
Fatah are secular, Hamas Sunni for the most part. You've got natural tensions all around.
Hamas want war, want dead Jews. Fatah are just a bunch of crooks.
Human rights watch, oft criticised by Israel themselves have pointed out that by firing rockets at civilians is a war crime. People seem to want to ignore that salient part; just because Iron Dome works, it's ok?
You're looking for black and white when it's a mirky shade of grey. |
You don't have to dumb down anything , I certainly know what's going on out there.
And now I certainly know your answer to the killing of children . |  |
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| Ken Livingstone on 21:33 - Apr 28 with 1414 views | trampie |
Miliband brothers one became Labour leader. |  |
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| Ken Livingstone on 21:35 - Apr 28 with 1410 views | blueytheblue |
| Ken Livingstone on 21:33 - Apr 28 by oh_tommy_tommy |
You don't have to dumb down anything , I certainly know what's going on out there.
And now I certainly know your answer to the killing of children . |
No. You think you do.
I choose not to correct you. | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 21:55 - Apr 28 with 1382 views | trampie |
Does Ken know his history ?, is there an unwritten rule that certain topics cant be broached ? | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 21:57 - Apr 28 with 1378 views | blueytheblue |
| Ken Livingstone on 21:55 - Apr 28 by trampie |
Does Ken know his history ?, is there an unwritten rule that certain topics cant be broached ? |
Livingstone believes Hitler won the vote in 1932 which was incorrect I do believe, so probably no, he doesn't. | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 22:23 - Apr 28 with 1340 views | trampie |
That is why I asked, perhaps it explains why Livingstone is in the Labour party. | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 23:21 - Apr 28 with 1300 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Ken Livingstone on 21:57 - Apr 28 by blueytheblue |
Livingstone believes Hitler won the vote in 1932 which was incorrect I do believe, so probably no, he doesn't. |
I think (without Googling) that Hitler was voted in as part of a coalition in 1932. I'm not Googling as I don't know for sure but that's my recall. 'I do believe', indeed. Point is, how many of us know every nuance of history when asked directly?
I'm no Labour fan, or of Ken himself, just trying to be objective. [Post edited 28 Apr 2016 23:23]
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| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Ken Livingstone on 23:29 - Apr 28 with 1292 views | blueytheblue |
| Ken Livingstone on 23:21 - Apr 28 by Jack_Meoff |
I think (without Googling) that Hitler was voted in as part of a coalition in 1932. I'm not Googling as I don't know for sure but that's my recall. 'I do believe', indeed. Point is, how many of us know every nuance of history when asked directly?
I'm no Labour fan, or of Ken himself, just trying to be objective. [Post edited 28 Apr 2016 23:23]
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I admit to googling :p
Hitler got 30%; Von Hindenburg 49.6%. As other candidates then pulled out, von Hindenburg won with 53%.
Hitler was made Chancellor and then succeeded von Hindenburg upon his death in 1934.
So Ken was wrong, get your point about nuances but if he's introducing the issue and referring to history, he needs to be correct. | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 23:37 - Apr 28 with 1287 views | Kerouac |
| Ken Livingstone on 18:37 - Apr 28 by CountyJim |
I like John Mann  |
Yes, fair play to the bloke....he should join the Lib Dems. |  |
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| Ken Livingstone on 23:52 - Apr 28 with 1271 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Ken Livingstone on 23:29 - Apr 28 by blueytheblue |
I admit to googling :p
Hitler got 30%; Von Hindenburg 49.6%. As other candidates then pulled out, von Hindenburg won with 53%.
Hitler was made Chancellor and then succeeded von Hindenburg upon his death in 1934.
So Ken was wrong, get your point about nuances but if he's introducing the issue and referring to history, he needs to be correct. |
Yeah Bluey, amazing what you can find out with 30 seconds of research eh?!
He didn't introduce the issue though did he?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-anti-semitism-row-full-tran | |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Ken Livingstone on 23:58 - Apr 28 with 1262 views | blueytheblue |
He was asked about claims made in the past, which is a valid question.
The fact is, he was caught in a straight up lie. Livingstone claims he has never lied. In the very same interview, he claims he didn't know the journalist he called a "concentration camp guard" was Jewish. He did - he initially called him a German war criminal. The reorter pointed out he was Jewish, then Livingstone made his offensive comment. So there's a lie straight away. | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 00:01 - Apr 29 with 1259 views | Loyal |
| Ken Livingstone on 21:55 - Apr 28 by trampie |
Does Ken know his history ?, is there an unwritten rule that certain topics cant be broached ? |
Depends who you are.
If it was Nigel Farage your opinion would be different maybe ? |  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Ken Livingstone on 08:14 - Apr 29 with 1197 views | Dr_Winston |
| Ken Livingstone on 21:15 - Apr 28 by acejack3065 |
We've had plenty of anti-Semites support the swans over the years... |
Always plenty of bigotry to be found at the WR. From the already mentioned anti-Semites to the likes of Trampie. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Ken Livingstone on 08:44 - Apr 29 with 1172 views | CopperJack |
| Ken Livingstone on 21:05 - Apr 28 by blueytheblue |
If Gaza - self governed - fire rockets into Israel, then Israel ware well within their rights to conduct military operations.
It's not as simplistic and emotive as you'd like to reduce it down to.
EDIT: Indeed, it's interesting nobody ever really questions Hamas. The whole Hamas - Fatah shit is embarassing... [Post edited 28 Apr 2016 21:06]
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This is an interesting post.
Nobody ever questions Hamas' tactics of firing rockets into Israel and the innocent civilians it kills. People focus on the response of Israel to a belligerent neighbour. I actually remember Channel 4 reporting that not a single rocket had been fired into Israel at the time - that was nothing more than propaganda, an outright lie.
I don't understand why anti-Semitism is so widely accepted in this country. If some of the remarks which have been made by Labour politicians had been made about another religion, their feet wouldn't touch the ground. Can't help feeling the party is imploding - need to sort it out ASAP. | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 08:55 - Apr 29 with 1169 views | blueytheblue |
| Ken Livingstone on 08:44 - Apr 29 by CopperJack |
This is an interesting post.
Nobody ever questions Hamas' tactics of firing rockets into Israel and the innocent civilians it kills. People focus on the response of Israel to a belligerent neighbour. I actually remember Channel 4 reporting that not a single rocket had been fired into Israel at the time - that was nothing more than propaganda, an outright lie.
I don't understand why anti-Semitism is so widely accepted in this country. If some of the remarks which have been made by Labour politicians had been made about another religion, their feet wouldn't touch the ground. Can't help feeling the party is imploding - need to sort it out ASAP. |
I wouldn't say anti-semitism is widely accepted, more it's not considered for what it is - vile racism.
There's always been anti-semitism historically, the whole "da Jooz killed Christ" bs... blood libel, Protocols of Zion etc. Becomes self-perpetuating - Jews been enslaved and expelled by Romans, expelled from Britain - well, must be their fault innit. Which is an argument akin to "well Blacks were slaves, must be all their fault for being enslaved". | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 10:03 - Apr 29 with 1145 views | Humpty |
| Ken Livingstone on 21:18 - Apr 28 by blueytheblue |
You want a dumbed down world view, Israel - Palestinians.
That's incredibly stupid on your part. PA / Hamas / Fatah activities are hardly condusive to harmony... if Israel didn't exist, Hamas and Fatah would be stuck in endless civil wars.
Fatah are secular, Hamas Sunni for the most part. You've got natural tensions all around.
Hamas want war, want dead Jews. Fatah are just a bunch of crooks.
Human rights watch, oft criticised by Israel themselves have pointed out that by firing rockets at civilians is a war crime. People seem to want to ignore that salient part; just because Iron Dome works, it's ok?
You're looking for black and white when it's a mirky shade of grey. |
You mention PA / Hamas / Fatah activities are hardly condusive to harmony... if Israel didn't exist, Hamas and Fatah would be stuck in endless civil wars.
You forgot to mention that Israel actively encouraged and helped Hamas to grow as a counterpoint to Fatah, the PLO etc. Divide and conquer and all that. |  | | |
| Ken Livingstone on 19:54 - Apr 29 with 1053 views | trampie |
| Ken Livingstone on 08:14 - Apr 29 by Dr_Winston |
Always plenty of bigotry to be found at the WR. From the already mentioned anti-Semites to the likes of Trampie. |
I'm not anti anybody, that is your department. | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 19:59 - Apr 29 with 1052 views | blueytheblue |
| Ken Livingstone on 10:03 - Apr 29 by Humpty |
You mention PA / Hamas / Fatah activities are hardly condusive to harmony... if Israel didn't exist, Hamas and Fatah would be stuck in endless civil wars.
You forgot to mention that Israel actively encouraged and helped Hamas to grow as a counterpoint to Fatah, the PLO etc. Divide and conquer and all that. |
Hamas charter has always referred to taking over Israel, throwing Jews into sea, that kinda thing. Israel may have implicitly turned a bind eye at times... an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood would be strange bedfellows indeed. I can understand wanting a group to put pressure on the intransigence of Fatah and PLO, jut Hamas have turned out to be worse for everything, Israeli or Palestinian.
Hamas would always have become what they became. The corruption of Fatah meant they were hardly popular... something would have emerged internally against Fatah. I doubt anything different to Hamas would have emerged. [Post edited 29 Apr 2016 20:02]
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| Ken Livingstone on 20:21 - Apr 29 with 1035 views | AnotherJohn |
| Ken Livingstone on 23:29 - Apr 28 by blueytheblue |
I admit to googling :p
Hitler got 30%; Von Hindenburg 49.6%. As other candidates then pulled out, von Hindenburg won with 53%.
Hitler was made Chancellor and then succeeded von Hindenburg upon his death in 1934.
So Ken was wrong, get your point about nuances but if he's introducing the issue and referring to history, he needs to be correct. |
Bernie Sanders made the same mistake back in August last year.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/08/28/why-you-shouldnt- [Post edited 29 Apr 2016 21:15]
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| Ken Livingstone on 20:27 - Apr 29 with 1030 views | trampie |
Is Ken trying to refer to German attitude to Britain in the 30's ?
Zionists attitude to the British mandate of Palestine in the 30's ?
Germans and Zionists dodging British gunboards that were trying to protect the British mandate of Palestine ?
Was Ken off about Hitler and the Zionists in the 30's before the war ?, with the Brits having a different agenda to the Germans and the Zionists. | |
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| Ken Livingstone on 22:08 - Apr 29 with 980 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Ken Livingstone on 20:27 - Apr 29 by trampie |
Is Ken trying to refer to German attitude to Britain in the 30's ?
Zionists attitude to the British mandate of Palestine in the 30's ?
Germans and Zionists dodging British gunboards that were trying to protect the British mandate of Palestine ?
Was Ken off about Hitler and the Zionists in the 30's before the war ?, with the Brits having a different agenda to the Germans and the Zionists. |
It was the haavara agreement Trampie .
Sensationalism at its upmost ,quite incredible stuff going in in the media. | |
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