| I need a new job and I need it quickly 12:41 - May 5 with 9436 views | jack_lord |
What are the best job search places or agencies for the Swansea area? |  |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 12:42 - May 14 with 2059 views | max936 |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 11:34 - May 14 by jack_lord |
I have a written contract that says I should give 30 minutes travel time that means that as I finish at 5:30 then 6 is my "home time which is why my childcare arrangement is for 6.
This arrangement has been in place for at least 5 years on a Tuesday and a Friday and the reason that when I am on my week of late starts I am exempt on Tuesday and Friday and my manager is well aware of this.
I am a member of a union though my company is not unionised.
I have an interview with another company in one week and I am now in a catch 22 situation.
I would, at this point, not go into work as it is intolerable and the relationship with my manager has it a low point but I do not want this to affect my chance in the job that I have applied for. |
You have got to go down the grievance route Jas, Email HR you can even put an official complaint in about the Manager, I'm in Unite union my employer doesn't recognise the union either, had to speak to them this week myself, to say they were less that useless is an overstatement, 14 quid a month I pay as well, I managed to sort things out with ease myself in the end after I wound myself right up, between my eldest and Mrs suffering from food poisoning and studying for my gas assessment seeing to my youngest and being stressed over work, I'm glad the week is over  |  |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 12:48 - May 14 with 2054 views | Highjack |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 11:34 - May 14 by jack_lord |
I have a written contract that says I should give 30 minutes travel time that means that as I finish at 5:30 then 6 is my "home time which is why my childcare arrangement is for 6.
This arrangement has been in place for at least 5 years on a Tuesday and a Friday and the reason that when I am on my week of late starts I am exempt on Tuesday and Friday and my manager is well aware of this.
I am a member of a union though my company is not unionised.
I have an interview with another company in one week and I am now in a catch 22 situation.
I would, at this point, not go into work as it is intolerable and the relationship with my manager has it a low point but I do not want this to affect my chance in the job that I have applied for. |
Have you considered thwacking him in his gimpy face? |  |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 13:19 - May 14 with 2023 views | londonlisa2001 |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 11:34 - May 14 by jack_lord |
I have a written contract that says I should give 30 minutes travel time that means that as I finish at 5:30 then 6 is my "home time which is why my childcare arrangement is for 6.
This arrangement has been in place for at least 5 years on a Tuesday and a Friday and the reason that when I am on my week of late starts I am exempt on Tuesday and Friday and my manager is well aware of this.
I am a member of a union though my company is not unionised.
I have an interview with another company in one week and I am now in a catch 22 situation.
I would, at this point, not go into work as it is intolerable and the relationship with my manager has it a low point but I do not want this to affect my chance in the job that I have applied for. |
I am not an employment lawyer so this is just an opinion based on experience in these situations before.
The scenario you've outlined wouldn't be a sufficient case for constructive dismissal in my view.
As Brynnie says, it forms part of a pattern that has to be recorded and that pattern may over time give you a case but as a single incident it wouldn't be enough.
You said that you have a 'normal leaving time' of 5.30 and this instruction (or request - you have to see this from both sides as any tribunal will do) was for you to complete a job 40 minutes before that (you said you called at 4.50). I have no idea how long such a job would normally take, but if it's around half an hour or so then you'd be finished by 5.30. Also, and employer would be regarded as reasonable to expect some flexibility on that, as they would point out many times when you finish say 5.15.
If you could prove that the employer was being deliberately unreasonable that's a different matter, but you said that the initial request didn't come from him? Also there would need to be a real pattern to prove deliberate targeting of you compared to anyone else or what was normally expected. If you don't like his management style, that's not enough for a claim unless his management style is bullying in some way (again remember that he would claim it wasn't).
By the way, people claiming things like 'you get a big pay out' etc is not strictly true. Constructive dismissal actually gives you a claim of unfair dismissal - it's not a separate thing. In other words, their actions have in effect been such that they have dismissed you without the statutory protections that are in place. So if you 'won' a case, then it's a payoff in respect of unfair dismissal that you'd get (those claims are exacerbated if reasons of gender, race or sexuality are involved but I'm assuming here that they are not).
If at all possible, it's always best not to go down that route as rightly or wrongly future employers don't like it. Have you tried asking for a meeting with you, him and HR to discuss your concerns and try to work through them? Any tribunal if it ever came to that would expect that. Simply telling HR that you won't work for him will not help your case at all.
It's always very difficult in these situations and if there is a genuine problem it's better to look elsewhere probably, but be careful. How long have you worked with this guy? Have there been problems before? You've got to bear in mind that however irritated you are, there may be reasons why he's suddenly started acting this way (if he's always been OK before). He may be having problems himself and is unfairly taking it out on people in work - doesn't make it OK, but however senior people are they are human as well and may have stresses. Talking to each other in a rational way may bring those out and could lead to a good relationship going forward. |  | | |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 14:14 - May 14 with 1995 views | jack_lord |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 13:19 - May 14 by londonlisa2001 |
I am not an employment lawyer so this is just an opinion based on experience in these situations before.
The scenario you've outlined wouldn't be a sufficient case for constructive dismissal in my view.
As Brynnie says, it forms part of a pattern that has to be recorded and that pattern may over time give you a case but as a single incident it wouldn't be enough.
You said that you have a 'normal leaving time' of 5.30 and this instruction (or request - you have to see this from both sides as any tribunal will do) was for you to complete a job 40 minutes before that (you said you called at 4.50). I have no idea how long such a job would normally take, but if it's around half an hour or so then you'd be finished by 5.30. Also, and employer would be regarded as reasonable to expect some flexibility on that, as they would point out many times when you finish say 5.15.
If you could prove that the employer was being deliberately unreasonable that's a different matter, but you said that the initial request didn't come from him? Also there would need to be a real pattern to prove deliberate targeting of you compared to anyone else or what was normally expected. If you don't like his management style, that's not enough for a claim unless his management style is bullying in some way (again remember that he would claim it wasn't).
By the way, people claiming things like 'you get a big pay out' etc is not strictly true. Constructive dismissal actually gives you a claim of unfair dismissal - it's not a separate thing. In other words, their actions have in effect been such that they have dismissed you without the statutory protections that are in place. So if you 'won' a case, then it's a payoff in respect of unfair dismissal that you'd get (those claims are exacerbated if reasons of gender, race or sexuality are involved but I'm assuming here that they are not).
If at all possible, it's always best not to go down that route as rightly or wrongly future employers don't like it. Have you tried asking for a meeting with you, him and HR to discuss your concerns and try to work through them? Any tribunal if it ever came to that would expect that. Simply telling HR that you won't work for him will not help your case at all.
It's always very difficult in these situations and if there is a genuine problem it's better to look elsewhere probably, but be careful. How long have you worked with this guy? Have there been problems before? You've got to bear in mind that however irritated you are, there may be reasons why he's suddenly started acting this way (if he's always been OK before). He may be having problems himself and is unfairly taking it out on people in work - doesn't make it OK, but however senior people are they are human as well and may have stresses. Talking to each other in a rational way may bring those out and could lead to a good relationship going forward. |
Thank you for the reply Lisa.
As driving is seen as part of the job as a "Field Engineer" then the planning team must take into account an engineer's home location when allocating a call. Information on this call did state that part was available at Rico Cardiff (which plays a part in time/distance to call) if engineer becomes available.
I spoke to the planning team to advise them that I was not necessarily available as it could take 50 minutes (heavy traffic which is commonplace at that time of day on a Friday) but I might get there and I would certainly try. I spoke to my colleague who lives less than five minutes from this site if he was available to take over if the need required and he said yes.
There were additional factors that arose, which meant that a build would be required as the hardware was different meaning that this job would take the above mentioned time.
The planning team recognised this and were updating for a visit the next day as the service level agreement was for the following day anyway but the new process introduced where we have to phone our manager meant he was involved.
In my opinion, this is now a bullying case following my liaison with HR due to his previous previous unreasonable behaviour which he has already told me that he is not happy about. The fact that he is telling me to make alternative arrangements for that evenings childcare arrangements at an hour notice is clearly unreasonable. This is further worsened by his refusal to let my colleague, who lives so close to that site take over the call from me which would have been the case in the past knowing that I have childcare commitments.
I am not after a big payout but I don't want this behaviour to continue and let other people be subjected to the same style of management. Three of my colleagues are also close to filing complaints about this man and the pressures of the job.
I understand that flexibility exists is all roles and I try to be this at most times. I have gone beyond the call of duty recently but had no thanks for that. | |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 14:22 - May 14 with 1982 views | Highjack |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 13:19 - May 14 by londonlisa2001 |
I am not an employment lawyer so this is just an opinion based on experience in these situations before.
The scenario you've outlined wouldn't be a sufficient case for constructive dismissal in my view.
As Brynnie says, it forms part of a pattern that has to be recorded and that pattern may over time give you a case but as a single incident it wouldn't be enough.
You said that you have a 'normal leaving time' of 5.30 and this instruction (or request - you have to see this from both sides as any tribunal will do) was for you to complete a job 40 minutes before that (you said you called at 4.50). I have no idea how long such a job would normally take, but if it's around half an hour or so then you'd be finished by 5.30. Also, and employer would be regarded as reasonable to expect some flexibility on that, as they would point out many times when you finish say 5.15.
If you could prove that the employer was being deliberately unreasonable that's a different matter, but you said that the initial request didn't come from him? Also there would need to be a real pattern to prove deliberate targeting of you compared to anyone else or what was normally expected. If you don't like his management style, that's not enough for a claim unless his management style is bullying in some way (again remember that he would claim it wasn't).
By the way, people claiming things like 'you get a big pay out' etc is not strictly true. Constructive dismissal actually gives you a claim of unfair dismissal - it's not a separate thing. In other words, their actions have in effect been such that they have dismissed you without the statutory protections that are in place. So if you 'won' a case, then it's a payoff in respect of unfair dismissal that you'd get (those claims are exacerbated if reasons of gender, race or sexuality are involved but I'm assuming here that they are not).
If at all possible, it's always best not to go down that route as rightly or wrongly future employers don't like it. Have you tried asking for a meeting with you, him and HR to discuss your concerns and try to work through them? Any tribunal if it ever came to that would expect that. Simply telling HR that you won't work for him will not help your case at all.
It's always very difficult in these situations and if there is a genuine problem it's better to look elsewhere probably, but be careful. How long have you worked with this guy? Have there been problems before? You've got to bear in mind that however irritated you are, there may be reasons why he's suddenly started acting this way (if he's always been OK before). He may be having problems himself and is unfairly taking it out on people in work - doesn't make it OK, but however senior people are they are human as well and may have stresses. Talking to each other in a rational way may bring those out and could lead to a good relationship going forward. |
On second thoughts this is better advice than twa tting him on the nose. Take Lisa's advice. | |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 12:07 - May 15 with 1880 views | SwaneeRiver |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 11:34 - May 14 by jack_lord |
I have a written contract that says I should give 30 minutes travel time that means that as I finish at 5:30 then 6 is my "home time which is why my childcare arrangement is for 6.
This arrangement has been in place for at least 5 years on a Tuesday and a Friday and the reason that when I am on my week of late starts I am exempt on Tuesday and Friday and my manager is well aware of this.
I am a member of a union though my company is not unionised.
I have an interview with another company in one week and I am now in a catch 22 situation.
I would, at this point, not go into work as it is intolerable and the relationship with my manager has it a low point but I do not want this to affect my chance in the job that I have applied for. |
My understanding is that if asked for a reference your old / current company cannot give a negative reference, at worst they can give a non-commital one.
Again your union should be able to advise you, although it's a shame they are not recognised by your company as a common sense resolution could have been found, which can't happen if the management won't come to the discussion table. | | | |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:36 - May 17 with 1767 views | jack_lord |
Latest:
I have had an answer machine message today from manager saying that "I should call him about a couple of things as he has had a crystal ball report (our phone tracking system) and it is quite alarming actually".
I have phoned him back, obviously quite worried but had to leave a message. | |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:49 - May 17 with 1754 views | Jackfath |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:36 - May 17 by jack_lord |
Latest:
I have had an answer machine message today from manager saying that "I should call him about a couple of things as he has had a crystal ball report (our phone tracking system) and it is quite alarming actually".
I have phoned him back, obviously quite worried but had to leave a message. |
What's alarming about the report? |  |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:54 - May 17 with 1742 views | jack_lord |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:49 - May 17 by Jackfath |
What's alarming about the report? |
It would be ok if I knew, but this is where the witch hunt begins. It is tracking data, with start time, travel times, stop times etc. | |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:58 - May 17 with 1724 views | Jackfath |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:54 - May 17 by jack_lord |
It would be ok if I knew, but this is where the witch hunt begins. It is tracking data, with start time, travel times, stop times etc. |
Does your boss come on here? | |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 19:02 - May 17 with 1720 views | jack_lord |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:58 - May 17 by Jackfath |
Does your boss come on here? |
My company are based in Derby and my manager,Ian, is from Wolverhampton so I doubt it. | |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 08:51 - May 18 with 1638 views | SwaneeRiver |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 13:19 - May 14 by londonlisa2001 |
I am not an employment lawyer so this is just an opinion based on experience in these situations before.
The scenario you've outlined wouldn't be a sufficient case for constructive dismissal in my view.
As Brynnie says, it forms part of a pattern that has to be recorded and that pattern may over time give you a case but as a single incident it wouldn't be enough.
You said that you have a 'normal leaving time' of 5.30 and this instruction (or request - you have to see this from both sides as any tribunal will do) was for you to complete a job 40 minutes before that (you said you called at 4.50). I have no idea how long such a job would normally take, but if it's around half an hour or so then you'd be finished by 5.30. Also, and employer would be regarded as reasonable to expect some flexibility on that, as they would point out many times when you finish say 5.15.
If you could prove that the employer was being deliberately unreasonable that's a different matter, but you said that the initial request didn't come from him? Also there would need to be a real pattern to prove deliberate targeting of you compared to anyone else or what was normally expected. If you don't like his management style, that's not enough for a claim unless his management style is bullying in some way (again remember that he would claim it wasn't).
By the way, people claiming things like 'you get a big pay out' etc is not strictly true. Constructive dismissal actually gives you a claim of unfair dismissal - it's not a separate thing. In other words, their actions have in effect been such that they have dismissed you without the statutory protections that are in place. So if you 'won' a case, then it's a payoff in respect of unfair dismissal that you'd get (those claims are exacerbated if reasons of gender, race or sexuality are involved but I'm assuming here that they are not).
If at all possible, it's always best not to go down that route as rightly or wrongly future employers don't like it. Have you tried asking for a meeting with you, him and HR to discuss your concerns and try to work through them? Any tribunal if it ever came to that would expect that. Simply telling HR that you won't work for him will not help your case at all.
It's always very difficult in these situations and if there is a genuine problem it's better to look elsewhere probably, but be careful. How long have you worked with this guy? Have there been problems before? You've got to bear in mind that however irritated you are, there may be reasons why he's suddenly started acting this way (if he's always been OK before). He may be having problems himself and is unfairly taking it out on people in work - doesn't make it OK, but however senior people are they are human as well and may have stresses. Talking to each other in a rational way may bring those out and could lead to a good relationship going forward. |
All of Lisa's post is good advice.
With regards to hold a meeting with HR, you and the manager in question, if they will not allow an outside party to represent or at least accompany you (I.E Union Rep) then at the very least have a workplace colleague to take notes and verify at any future proceedings what happened in the meeting. | | | |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 10:24 - May 18 with 1614 views | monmouth |
Put all your current emotional energy into getting the new job (don't worry about the reference).
As far as the clash with the manager goes really try and take any personal emotion out of it. Just be clinical. Put everything in writing - keep it factual, use any tactic, and get the best advice you can find on your strategy. Maybe imagine it as a game of chess being played by a third party. If you get the new job, it stops being a problem anyway.
Sorry, I know that's easy to say. Different when you're in the stressful heat of battle. Just keep thinking 'clinical' and play the game at your pace; you don't have to immediately respond to every stimulus, or make that many moves. If these logs (?) are damaging, then remember to consider which company written regulation prohibits whatever it is. Don't let anyone make up new 'rules' to fit their current agenda. Good luck. I hate bullying managers. |  |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:12 - May 23 with 1443 views | jack_lord |
Bizarre one now.
I had a meeting arranged on Thursday where our lady was driving down from Derby to meet with me.
I have had an email from my manager today telling me that my meeting with HR will no longer take place and he and my Team leader will meet with me Wednesday morning to discuss outstanding issues I have.
Alarm bells or not? | |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 19:37 - May 23 with 1403 views | SwaneeRiver |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:12 - May 23 by jack_lord |
Bizarre one now.
I had a meeting arranged on Thursday where our lady was driving down from Derby to meet with me.
I have had an email from my manager today telling me that my meeting with HR will no longer take place and he and my Team leader will meet with me Wednesday morning to discuss outstanding issues I have.
Alarm bells or not? |
Seems to me they have downgraded the issue and are looking to resolve it informally.
I would still ask for someone to accompany you - if they have nothing to hide then that should never be a problem.
I assume that you cannot be represented formally (have you asked ?) - otherwise they would have to find a mutually convenient date (within reason) | | | |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 21:23 - May 23 with 1352 views | jack_lord |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 19:37 - May 23 by SwaneeRiver |
Seems to me they have downgraded the issue and are looking to resolve it informally.
I would still ask for someone to accompany you - if they have nothing to hide then that should never be a problem.
I assume that you cannot be represented formally (have you asked ?) - otherwise they would have to find a mutually convenient date (within reason) |
As I only had the email this afternoon I spoke to HR and they told me that the person who was suppposed to meet me also said it was odd that they had cancelled our meeting. It was her who told me to put a complaint in formally to the operations manager. I told her that I would go away and think about it. She must have spoken to him (the ops manager) and he has told my manager to sort it out. HR have "assured" me that everything is OK and that my manager and TL are only trying to discuss my ongoing issues. | |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 07:25 - May 24 with 1289 views | SwaneeRiver |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 21:23 - May 23 by jack_lord |
As I only had the email this afternoon I spoke to HR and they told me that the person who was suppposed to meet me also said it was odd that they had cancelled our meeting. It was her who told me to put a complaint in formally to the operations manager. I told her that I would go away and think about it. She must have spoken to him (the ops manager) and he has told my manager to sort it out. HR have "assured" me that everything is OK and that my manager and TL are only trying to discuss my ongoing issues. |
It does sound promising, but proceed with caution. I have seen several occasions when the parties come together, one word gets taken out of context by one of the parties then before you know it they (the manager and TL) could both contrive to have it seen that you were the unreasonable one.
Very important you have representation or at least are accompanied by a colleague.
All the best | | | |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:15 - May 24 with 1212 views | jack_lord |
I have spoken to my TL today (who was a mate of mine for the last ten years before he became TL) who assured me that there was nothing sinister about this. That the manager had basically been told to sort this out before it gets worse. He said that he thought (and it is his opinion) that he thought my manager may be trying to offer an olive branch.
They want to hear my issues and he believes that I will leave with a smile on my face.
One of my close friends is saying that as they have cancelled my HR visit (which was my right) then if they put any pressure on me they are walking in to a successful constructive dismissal case. | |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:04 - May 25 with 1115 views | jack_lord |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:15 - May 24 by jack_lord |
I have spoken to my TL today (who was a mate of mine for the last ten years before he became TL) who assured me that there was nothing sinister about this. That the manager had basically been told to sort this out before it gets worse. He said that he thought (and it is his opinion) that he thought my manager may be trying to offer an olive branch.
They want to hear my issues and he believes that I will leave with a smile on my face.
One of my close friends is saying that as they have cancelled my HR visit (which was my right) then if they put any pressure on me they are walking in to a successful constructive dismissal case. |
I would say that was close to a stitch up.
Trying little phrases to trip me up or react.
Nothing was resolved and how can you sit there, in a meeting, with the person you are saying is bullying you telling him he is a bully? | |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 19:50 - May 25 with 1093 views | SwaneeRiver |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 18:04 - May 25 by jack_lord |
I would say that was close to a stitch up.
Trying little phrases to trip me up or react.
Nothing was resolved and how can you sit there, in a meeting, with the person you are saying is bullying you telling him he is a bully? |
I have to say it is not a surprise at all to me.
It doesn't make it right, but basically you go into any battle alone against management and they will twist it to make it look as if you are the unreasonable one and they have bent over backwards to accommodate you.
As you said, it also very hard to call somebody a bully to their face without documented evidence and support (if applicable) from colleagues who have also suffered.
In the first instance I would go back to HR and say that you want to lodge a Formal Grievance against the TL. Ask them if you can have union representation, legal representation or at the very least a colleague to accompany you.
Your "works manual" should detail the company procedure for this.
As I said before, I cannot understand if they have nothing to hide why they would refuse you representation of some kind. | | | |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 19:57 - May 25 with 1080 views | SwaneeRiver |
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/disciplinary-meetings/wh
Confirms your rights if it is a disciplinary hearing.
Also confirms(as per my advice) that at other meetings you can ask for someone to accompany you, although the company can refuse unless it is a disciplinary hearing.
I know it is easier to walk away, but don't let the barstewards win. If they get away with it with you, it empowers them to do it to others. | | | |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 21:04 - May 25 with 1057 views | jack_lord |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 19:57 - May 25 by SwaneeRiver |
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/disciplinary-meetings/wh
Confirms your rights if it is a disciplinary hearing.
Also confirms(as per my advice) that at other meetings you can ask for someone to accompany you, although the company can refuse unless it is a disciplinary hearing.
I know it is easier to walk away, but don't let the barstewards win. If they get away with it with you, it empowers them to do it to others. |
As it was not a disciplinary and "only them listening to my personal issues" then I could not have anyone there.
Your last sentence is bang on the money though as the company have managed to get HR out of the way and have told me that if I have any issues or complaints then there is a hierarchy and HR are not to be seen on that. | |
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| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 08:52 - May 26 with 997 views | SwaneeRiver |
| I need a new job and I need it quickly on 21:04 - May 25 by jack_lord |
As it was not a disciplinary and "only them listening to my personal issues" then I could not have anyone there.
Your last sentence is bang on the money though as the company have managed to get HR out of the way and have told me that if I have any issues or complaints then there is a hierarchy and HR are not to be seen on that. |
Strongly suggest you look at the Grievance route. Whilst officially the company may have no requirement for HR to be involved, it is highly unlikely they would have a grievance handled by managers who do not have a full knowledge of your rights and their rights.
Also means the case is dealt with by a manager who is not involved, as well as a cast iron allowance in law for you to be accompanied by Union official or colleague of your choosing.
http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/f/m/Acas-Code-of-Practice-1-on-disciplinary-and
I dealt with many cases of people who felt they couldn't get a fair deal from the company. More often than not a successful outcome is reached, especially when unions become involved. Managers who are big fish in a little pond, suddenly start becoming tongue tied when they deal with adversaries who know more than they do [Post edited 26 May 2016 8:53]
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