| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU 12:02 - May 21 with 14870 views | jack_lord |
Just so we can read the reasons and then can respond to each with valid facts to denounce or support each one of them. |  |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:06 - May 25 with 887 views | blueytheblue |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:42 - May 24 by jack_lord |
Have things for them improved since they became members. Greece is a basket case and the amount of corruption in that country is crazy. The tax avoidance of the rich in that nation makes our lot look like angels.
The EU is a machine that should concentrate on stabilising it and dealing with the tax avoiders. |
You think it's only the rich in Greece avoiding tax!
Greek tax revenue collected was pathetically low... cash in hand economy. If the EU wanted to stabilise and tax avoiders then think you'll find Greece would basically become a prison based upon their view on tax avoidance. Wanted the nice trappings say of a very generous state pension just didn't want to actually pay the tax to support it. |  |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:16 - May 25 with 877 views | costalotta |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 07:06 - May 25 by nice_to_michu |
Why is it a "comedic" claim to acknowledge that the EU has played its part in securing peace for Europe as a trading bloc, along with other organisations such as NATO?
Europe has been one of, if not the most, violent continents on earth. I don't know why you would say that a trade agreement between previous enemies is a bad thing. |
Hey.
Options are one thing and Facts are another...
You could present an argument for most continents on our planet (minus Australia) being the most violent. For example, South America has been quite quite bad, La Violencia in Colombia, Wiping out the indigenous Indians in N America. The madness and violence in Cambodia, China and I could go on.
This vote is about the future not the past. [Post edited 25 May 2016 17:17]
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:20 - May 25 with 871 views | Batterseajack |
I was listening to 5 Live on the way home from work earlier and they were coming live from Swansea market. Turns out Swansea has benefited quite a bit from European funding, a lot of which i wasn't really aware of.
The fascinating bit i found was, when they were speaking to the average dummie in the street, aside from the fact they could barely string a complete sentence together, was that they were largely for an exit from EU on the grounds of immigration and security. Swansea is hardly the hot bed of Islamist terrorism and European economic migrants is it. Why on earth do these people care so much about this perceived threat? Are these issues really a problem for Swansea and its people? I find it frankly bizarre.
My industry (building design) would struggle if we halted the flow of Europeans. We struggle as it is to get enough Architects, Engineers and project managers. I reckon at least a third of my colleagues are Europeans and we'd be f**ked if we had to send them home as there is not enough British people willing to take on these jobs. | | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:22 - May 25 with 870 views | costalotta |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 14:03 - May 22 by swansealad69 |
My opinion is this
We now have a chance to do what we think is best
Off course we all have separate opinions but should we vote to stay in then I can't see another vote for Atleast 10 years
What could happen in 10 years?
All our powers to be in control off our laws rights and way off life
These real scary part is what the turks are trying
They are desperate to be part off the EU and are holding us to ransom over the refugee crisis
In order to to accept refugees they want in
That's 70million turks free to cross Europe
Now if that don't send alarm bells ringing then nothing will
And off course there is the idiots who want to open our boarders and want to give them the rights to protest and so on in our streets
The way I look at it is this
If pepole want to go to a different country then they should at the very least learn the language and wile in public stick to the rules and cultural believes off the land
Should they want to carry out there own believes then they can do so within the laws and there own places.
Can we actually preach our laws and rights in other country's?
There are to many left wing idiots who will allow our country to be over run and don't care if we lose our culture
Ask your self this
We in the last 20 years have seen a lot off changes
Our schools having to be politically correct in favor of Muslims
Different cultures now use the fact that we allow them to speak there mind and have taken advantage off it
It is not racist to white and proud nor is it racist to be British and proud
But we are walking on thin ice to say it.
The pepole who face the biggest problem will be our children and grand children
The EU has not worked
It may have been a good idea but to many cultures and way off life's for it to work.
Add to that we don't see our self's as part off it in the same way as the main land
We have that stripe off water that has kept us apart for hundreds off years wile the main land has been been integrated at the boarders
We don't look at the EU as they do
We will never
And the EU will never understand that.
Vote out and take our chances
We did well for hundreds off years
Its now time to have some pride in our history and start standing up for our self's.
We never bowed down to European dictators and fought to keep our way off life.
This is our time to stand up to another dictatorship in the Brussels
Just think off the world we could leave our kids should we stay in
And we won't get another chance. |
as we are all entitled to our views and they are just that.
You should trying living in a "Dictorship" then you'd realise that Europe is far from that! | | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:26 - May 25 with 861 views | blueytheblue |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:20 - May 25 by Batterseajack |
I was listening to 5 Live on the way home from work earlier and they were coming live from Swansea market. Turns out Swansea has benefited quite a bit from European funding, a lot of which i wasn't really aware of.
The fascinating bit i found was, when they were speaking to the average dummie in the street, aside from the fact they could barely string a complete sentence together, was that they were largely for an exit from EU on the grounds of immigration and security. Swansea is hardly the hot bed of Islamist terrorism and European economic migrants is it. Why on earth do these people care so much about this perceived threat? Are these issues really a problem for Swansea and its people? I find it frankly bizarre.
My industry (building design) would struggle if we halted the flow of Europeans. We struggle as it is to get enough Architects, Engineers and project managers. I reckon at least a third of my colleagues are Europeans and we'd be f**ked if we had to send them home as there is not enough British people willing to take on these jobs. |
So are your European Architects, Engineers and project managers claiming benefits? Not working? Council housing?
Where skilled people come into Britain, filling skill gaps then most people don't have a problem with that. Should always be a temporary stopgap whilst the skills gap gets addressed. | |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:28 - May 25 with 858 views | nice_to_michu |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:00 - May 25 by johnlangy |
Well said. How do you put a value on peace. |
Yeh, you can't put a price on it.
The key is to give two adversaries a reason to talk and compromise instead of heading towards conflict. The idea of war should be so costly (financially) that neither side will resort to conflict. A good way to do this is via economic unions (e.g. the EU).
Even if you have a president/leader who is a warmonger with deep hatred for his neighbouring country and despises their race, ethnicity or religion etc (think back to the old Yugoslavia), then the hope is that the economic argument for restraining from war outweigh the reasons for it. |  | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:34 - May 25 with 849 views | Batterseajack |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:26 - May 25 by blueytheblue |
So are your European Architects, Engineers and project managers claiming benefits? Not working? Council housing?
Where skilled people come into Britain, filling skill gaps then most people don't have a problem with that. Should always be a temporary stopgap whilst the skills gap gets addressed. |
How may poor European economic migrants are coming here claiming benefits and council housing here in Wales? Is there an actual problem, or is it just perceived? | | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:39 - May 25 with 843 views | nice_to_michu |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:16 - May 25 by costalotta |
Hey.
Options are one thing and Facts are another...
You could present an argument for most continents on our planet (minus Australia) being the most violent. For example, South America has been quite quite bad, La Violencia in Colombia, Wiping out the indigenous Indians in N America. The madness and violence in Cambodia, China and I could go on.
This vote is about the future not the past. [Post edited 25 May 2016 17:17]
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Yep, no doubt other continents have their own violent pasts.
The reason why Europe is often considered so violent is that "total war" has been seen on our continent twice in the past 100 years. Also, we are a (relatively) densely populated region, with some of the worlds most powerful armies (Russia, U.K., France) concentrated in one area of the globe, all with distinct identities, languages and ethnicities that sometimes come together at one time and conflict ensues. | | | |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:48 - May 25 with 838 views | blueytheblue |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:34 - May 25 by Batterseajack |
How may poor European economic migrants are coming here claiming benefits and council housing here in Wales? Is there an actual problem, or is it just perceived? |
I suspect the problem is localised, Wales not experiencing it to the same degree that parts of England do - which is expected really given the SE England is one of the first point people coming through Calais would be in Britain.
I don't think there's an actual problem in Wales right now, there's scope for it to potentially become an issue over time as more people are dispersed from say London due to a lack of housing. | |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:51 - May 25 with 836 views | costalotta |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:39 - May 25 by nice_to_michu |
Yep, no doubt other continents have their own violent pasts.
The reason why Europe is often considered so violent is that "total war" has been seen on our continent twice in the past 100 years. Also, we are a (relatively) densely populated region, with some of the worlds most powerful armies (Russia, U.K., France) concentrated in one area of the globe, all with distinct identities, languages and ethnicities that sometimes come together at one time and conflict ensues. |
Hence the need for close trade links... Sharing as it were. Its good for all of us; or at least better than the alternative which would be tension, empire building and the like.
The two World Wars you mention were IMO the end of an era lasting a couple of centuries at least with pretty much constant fighting in Europe. I know the cold war was dragged out over a few decades but that was more of a stand off between America and Russia.
Its funny that in the time of the EU since the 70's that we've prospered. If you're prepared to work hard and put the effort in there are rewards in life to be had. Not saying it wasn't like that before but I think of my parents and grandparents with the life they had and can only conclude that we seem much better of these days and i'm hopeful that trend continues with my children and theirs to come. | | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:56 - May 25 with 854 views | blueytheblue |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:51 - May 25 by costalotta |
Hence the need for close trade links... Sharing as it were. Its good for all of us; or at least better than the alternative which would be tension, empire building and the like.
The two World Wars you mention were IMO the end of an era lasting a couple of centuries at least with pretty much constant fighting in Europe. I know the cold war was dragged out over a few decades but that was more of a stand off between America and Russia.
Its funny that in the time of the EU since the 70's that we've prospered. If you're prepared to work hard and put the effort in there are rewards in life to be had. Not saying it wasn't like that before but I think of my parents and grandparents with the life they had and can only conclude that we seem much better of these days and i'm hopeful that trend continues with my children and theirs to come. |
Close trade links, yes.
Everything else, no.
It's ridiculous to try to showhorn European nations into one homogenous mob... different values, cultures make that non-sensical, an unachievable goal.
Even if it could be done, no sane person can defend an unelected mob with corruption rife to the extent accounts weren't signed off for what 15 years straight? Where the whistleblower was suspended and persecuted?
28 nations would struggle to come to a common decision as to the best Pot Noodle flavour... | |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:01 - May 25 with 847 views | jack_lord |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:56 - May 25 by blueytheblue |
Close trade links, yes.
Everything else, no.
It's ridiculous to try to showhorn European nations into one homogenous mob... different values, cultures make that non-sensical, an unachievable goal.
Even if it could be done, no sane person can defend an unelected mob with corruption rife to the extent accounts weren't signed off for what 15 years straight? Where the whistleblower was suspended and persecuted?
28 nations would struggle to come to a common decision as to the best Pot Noodle flavour... |
This was one of my questions in my finals at Uni. It was about the widening and deepening of the EU. My answer was based around the support for a widening but steering from deepening. | |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:08 - May 25 with 842 views | blueytheblue |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:01 - May 25 by jack_lord |
This was one of my questions in my finals at Uni. It was about the widening and deepening of the EU. My answer was based around the support for a widening but steering from deepening. |
Eurovision is the biggest example as to why the EU was always doomed.
People voting for songs from a similar cultural background. Nations consistently voting for each other irrespective of song quality. Standalone nations isolated, always underperforming. A small number of nations subsidising the event for others - and gaining little benefit from it. | |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:21 - May 25 with 835 views | nice_to_michu |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:56 - May 25 by blueytheblue |
Close trade links, yes.
Everything else, no.
It's ridiculous to try to showhorn European nations into one homogenous mob... different values, cultures make that non-sensical, an unachievable goal.
Even if it could be done, no sane person can defend an unelected mob with corruption rife to the extent accounts weren't signed off for what 15 years straight? Where the whistleblower was suspended and persecuted?
28 nations would struggle to come to a common decision as to the best Pot Noodle flavour... |
What parts of the EU or its legislation are you referring to when you say "shoehorn into a homogenous mob"?
And which parts are unelected? The bureaucrats at the EU (the EU's "Whitehall) is of course unelected, but then again they don't legislate. Turnout is poor, but we do choose our European legislators. | | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:33 - May 25 with 824 views | dailew |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:00 - May 25 by johnlangy |
Well said. How do you put a value on peace. |
And the total EU budget is about a fifth of what the US spends on "defence". |  |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:34 - May 25 with 824 views | blueytheblue |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:21 - May 25 by nice_to_michu |
What parts of the EU or its legislation are you referring to when you say "shoehorn into a homogenous mob"?
And which parts are unelected? The bureaucrats at the EU (the EU's "Whitehall) is of course unelected, but then again they don't legislate. Turnout is poor, but we do choose our European legislators. |
I'd say most of the EU and it's legislation would attempt to create a one size fits all solution. ERM, Euro et al being examples. The entire concept is flawed - United States of America has obvious regional differences but enough commonalities for it to work.
Unelected? Who voted for Juncker for example - the boss who then threatens if a nation exits? MEPs are voted to the Parliament. It's the Commission that introduces legislation. A Commission of 28 who swear the oath to put the EU first over national interests. The COmmission can also enact legislation without requiring the permission of the Parliament, meaning elected MEPs can have no say in the matter.
I just don't see any way the EU can be saved without tearing it down, scaling it down and working on a trade block only principle. That would never happen, too many people have a nice slice of the money as things stand. | |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:34 - May 25 with 824 views | Whiterockin |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:08 - May 25 by blueytheblue |
Eurovision is the biggest example as to why the EU was always doomed.
People voting for songs from a similar cultural background. Nations consistently voting for each other irrespective of song quality. Standalone nations isolated, always underperforming. A small number of nations subsidising the event for others - and gaining little benefit from it. |
And letting in immigrants like Australia.  |  | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:35 - May 25 with 822 views | blueytheblue |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:34 - May 25 by Whiterockin |
And letting in immigrants like Australia. |
Their songs have been far better than most of the dross, so clearly there are skilled migrants rather than wanting to leech off Eurovision voters ;) | |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 19:02 - May 25 with 805 views | felixstowe_jack |
The comment "we do choose our European legislators" is incorrect. EU commissioners who draft most of the legislation are not elected they are appointed usually one per Country. Neil and Glynis Kinnock were rejected by UK voters but were appointed EU Commissioners by the Labour government. The same goes for Mandy who was kicked out of Parliament twice once for a mortgage fraud , can't remember what for the second time.
The Commissioners plans are then rubber stamped by the EU parliament. A couple of time they actually voted down the EU budget increases but the EU just ignored the vote anyway and increased it. | |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 19:02 - May 25 with 805 views | exiledclaseboy |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 18:08 - May 25 by blueytheblue |
Eurovision is the biggest example as to why the EU was always doomed.
People voting for songs from a similar cultural background. Nations consistently voting for each other irrespective of song quality. Standalone nations isolated, always underperforming. A small number of nations subsidising the event for others - and gaining little benefit from it. |
You're seriously invoking Eurovision? The debate has plumbed new depths. |  |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 19:05 - May 25 with 801 views | AnotherJohn |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 17:34 - May 25 by Batterseajack |
How may poor European economic migrants are coming here claiming benefits and council housing here in Wales? Is there an actual problem, or is it just perceived? |
This is a complicated question. Some will want to distinguish people fleeing persecution from economic migrants. Then migrants who come in search of a better life and are on benefits may fall into several categories including (a) those seeking asylum (b) those granted asylum but still in search of work(c) those who have worked but are in a period of unemployment (d) undetected illegal immigrants, and (e) legal immigrants from the EU who may be claiming benefits (largest group by nationality is Polish). Additionally there is the issue of whether receiving 'in work benefits' counts as 'claiming benefits' and means that a person does not make a 'net fiscal contribution'.
As far as I know we don't have good statistics for most of these categories, but we do know that in December 2015 about 840 asylum seekers out of 2856 in Wales were receiving Section 95 support in the Swansea LA area. Section 95 support means receiving benefits while waiting for an asylum claim to be decided.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-october-to-dec
(volume 4 Table as 16 q)
So my guess is that the total numbers are larger than most would think. The Migration Observatory published a 2014 analysis that showed that 17233 foreign-born people lived in Swansea in 2011 (many gainfully employed no doubt, but some not). | | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 19:13 - May 25 with 786 views | blueytheblue |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 19:02 - May 25 by exiledclaseboy |
You're seriously invoking Eurovision? The debate has plumbed new depths. |
It was a tongue in cheek post with an element of truth. Eurovision has a nominal good aim, ruined via factionalism and self-interest. | |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 19:19 - May 25 with 784 views | exiledclaseboy |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 19:13 - May 25 by blueytheblue |
It was a tongue in cheek post with an element of truth. Eurovision has a nominal good aim, ruined via factionalism and self-interest. |
You should have stuck to tongue in cheek. It's a song contest with about as much relevance to continental trade and geopolitics as Brotherhood of Man. See what I did there. | |
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| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 19:54 - May 25 with 746 views | londonlisa2001 |
To give an alternative view from some of the 'everyone I know is voting out' comments, I was in a work related dinner last night with 10 people around the table. 9 in and 1 out. No one was anything other than 'on balance' and no one described themselves as 'not for moving'.
All agreed that there was no sign of anyone 'moving' them though given the appalling level of debate. No one mentioned immigration as a factor in their decision. | | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 19:55 - May 25 with 746 views | blueytheblue |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 19:19 - May 25 by exiledclaseboy |
You should have stuck to tongue in cheek. It's a song contest with about as much relevance to continental trade and geopolitics as Brotherhood of Man. See what I did there. |
Song contest? Political willy waving with a thin nudge and wink towards it being about the best song...
UK could put out the universally applauded greatest ever song written ever... and it wouldn't win. | |
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