| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU 12:02 - May 21 with 14871 views | jack_lord |
Just so we can read the reasons and then can respond to each with valid facts to denounce or support each one of them. |  |
| |  |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 20:52 - May 26 with 1222 views | exiledclaseboy |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 20:50 - May 26 by monmouth |
You're wasted in the CS. |
I've been telling them that for years but they keep giving me money.
Anyhoo, Alex Salmond just predicted a second referendum in Scotland within two years if the UK vote is to leave but Scotland votes to remain. [Post edited 26 May 2016 20:56]
|  |
| |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 20:54 - May 26 with 1220 views | exiledclaseboy |
The UKIP rep on the panel is so far out of her depth I'm embarrassed for her. [Post edited 26 May 2016 20:54]
| |
| |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 21:01 - May 26 with 1205 views | lifelong |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 20:24 - May 26 by exiledclaseboy |
Anyone watching this "debate" on BBC1? It's making me want to move to Europe let alone vote to remain in the EU. |
I've watched it as I'm seeking some proper debate to make my mind up which way to vote, I'm none the wiser. |  | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 21:04 - May 26 with 1197 views | blueytheblue |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 20:52 - May 26 by exiledclaseboy |
I've been telling them that for years but they keep giving me money.
Anyhoo, Alex Salmond just predicted a second referendum in Scotland within two years if the UK vote is to leave but Scotland votes to remain. [Post edited 26 May 2016 20:56]
|
Salmond is always whining about a second referendum. Smacks more of "keep doing referendums until we get the result we want". |  |
| |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 21:07 - May 26 with 1187 views | exiledclaseboy |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 21:01 - May 26 by lifelong |
I've watched it as I'm seeking some proper debate to make my mind up which way to vote, I'm none the wiser. |
Not gonna happen, Rog. Go with your instinct. | |
| |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 23:28 - May 26 with 1122 views | Ebo |
This is why the arguments from Leave about TTIP and having more money for the NHS seem so utterly disingenuous. A post-leave government will be firmly in favour of further NHS privatisation and exactly the kind of deregulated trade deal that TTIP gives us in spades.
I also think that a Remain win won't be the end of things and I really worry where all the aggression from the more extreme side of Brexit is going to be targetted. [Post edited 26 May 2016 23:29]
|  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 00:00 - May 27 with 1113 views | monmouth |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 23:28 - May 26 by Ebo |
This is why the arguments from Leave about TTIP and having more money for the NHS seem so utterly disingenuous. A post-leave government will be firmly in favour of further NHS privatisation and exactly the kind of deregulated trade deal that TTIP gives us in spades.
I also think that a Remain win won't be the end of things and I really worry where all the aggression from the more extreme side of Brexit is going to be targetted. [Post edited 26 May 2016 23:29]
|
This referendum will solve 5% of f**k all, whichever way it goes. The demographics and I dont just mean immigration, I mean population shifts, increasing impoverisation of whole swathes of the country, ageing populations and inequality, meansas a country we are heading rapidly for shit creek.
All that and we have the crappest set of politicians I can ever remember, which is saying something, right across the board to try and 'manage' it. |  |
| |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 08:22 - May 27 with 1063 views | AnotherJohn |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 00:00 - May 27 by monmouth |
This referendum will solve 5% of f**k all, whichever way it goes. The demographics and I dont just mean immigration, I mean population shifts, increasing impoverisation of whole swathes of the country, ageing populations and inequality, meansas a country we are heading rapidly for shit creek.
All that and we have the crappest set of politicians I can ever remember, which is saying something, right across the board to try and 'manage' it. |
Agree about population and social inequality. Population control was a major progressive cause when I was younger, but seems to be discounted by the present generation, whose interest has shifted to identity politics. Still there are some who haven't forgotten.
http://www.populationmatters.org/
I expect somebody will be along soon to tell me that as a country with an ageing population we need growth, but a House of Lords report a couple of years ago pointed out that (a) the size of the increase required would be too great to be feasible, and that (b) the incomers in turn get old. More attention needs to be paid to limits to growth and sustainability. If I was an 18 year old now I'd be wondering if I'd ever own a house and even how long I'd be able to own a car. | | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 09:47 - May 27 with 1043 views | LeonisGod |
If it helps, your or my individual votes will make fack all differnce.
Politicians have ruined this referendum. There could have been a sensible discussion about the pros and cons of the EU, but instead we get the usual spin and mudslinging from a bunch of cretins that everyone despises. It's a sure fire way to make people lose interest. |  | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 10:01 - May 27 with 1036 views | jojaca |
Just watched Question Time from last night, the brexit guys seemed to be the most logical. Ed Miliband was just spouting from a hymn sheet and Caroline Lucas just bored the shit out of me. [Post edited 27 May 2016 10:02]
|  |
| Even when you know, you never know? |
| |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 10:06 - May 27 with 1030 views | jack_lord |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 09:47 - May 27 by LeonisGod |
If it helps, your or my individual votes will make fack all differnce.
Politicians have ruined this referendum. There could have been a sensible discussion about the pros and cons of the EU, but instead we get the usual spin and mudslinging from a bunch of cretins that everyone despises. It's a sure fire way to make people lose interest. |
Collectively though, if everyone does vote then they will matter and the consensus will get what they want.
I agree with your point about the sensible discussion as we are generally having here. The big unfortunate is that we are all guessing what any "out"come would result in.
I don't think there will be any change in our security as it is in everyone's interest to carry on sharing if there is an exit.
Immigration will change but that works both ways.
If we had a crystal ball that would show how things would turn out for the economy, jobs etc then my choice would be a simple one.
At the moment, people have to filter out all the spin and look at what any sensible research has outlined. A question for me is how easy would it be to get another referendum in five years if the result is "in" or if there is an "out" vote then how easy would it be to rejoin a EU. | |
| |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 10:09 - May 27 with 1029 views | monmouth |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 10:06 - May 27 by jack_lord |
Collectively though, if everyone does vote then they will matter and the consensus will get what they want.
I agree with your point about the sensible discussion as we are generally having here. The big unfortunate is that we are all guessing what any "out"come would result in.
I don't think there will be any change in our security as it is in everyone's interest to carry on sharing if there is an exit.
Immigration will change but that works both ways.
If we had a crystal ball that would show how things would turn out for the economy, jobs etc then my choice would be a simple one.
At the moment, people have to filter out all the spin and look at what any sensible research has outlined. A question for me is how easy would it be to get another referendum in five years if the result is "in" or if there is an "out" vote then how easy would it be to rejoin a EU. |
If the polls swing out, hat may be the last desperate argument. Much 'easier' to have another out vote if it becomes intolerable (the 'sword of damocles' argument) rather than get back in which would be impossible on anything but paupers terms.
Out is irrevocable, in is not. Coming to a politicians mouth near you soon.
If it hasn't already. | |
| |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 10:19 - May 27 with 1022 views | LeonisGod |
I assume the irony is lost on them:
"As well as the good weather and large German community, one estate agent told the station that the new German arrivals were attracted by the fact that the majority of Hungarians are Christians and "there are hardly any migrants" in the country. | | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 10:26 - May 27 with 1018 views | LeonisGod |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 10:06 - May 27 by jack_lord |
Collectively though, if everyone does vote then they will matter and the consensus will get what they want.
I agree with your point about the sensible discussion as we are generally having here. The big unfortunate is that we are all guessing what any "out"come would result in.
I don't think there will be any change in our security as it is in everyone's interest to carry on sharing if there is an exit.
Immigration will change but that works both ways.
If we had a crystal ball that would show how things would turn out for the economy, jobs etc then my choice would be a simple one.
At the moment, people have to filter out all the spin and look at what any sensible research has outlined. A question for me is how easy would it be to get another referendum in five years if the result is "in" or if there is an "out" vote then how easy would it be to rejoin a EU. |
I suspect there is no way back (or not any time soon) if we vote to leave. It will take 3-5 yrs to negotiate an exit in any case. As for another referendum? That's more likely I reckon. But as you say we're just guessing as there are no independent statements about these things.
I agree that either decision could result in pros or cons. I'm not convinced either side can really forecast what will happen with any reliability. Chance are we'd make a good go of it either way, and global market conditions will continue to have a greater impact than our relationship with the EU (at least in terms of the economy). | | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 11:22 - May 27 with 994 views | jackonicko |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 10:09 - May 27 by monmouth |
If the polls swing out, hat may be the last desperate argument. Much 'easier' to have another out vote if it becomes intolerable (the 'sword of damocles' argument) rather than get back in which would be impossible on anything but paupers terms.
Out is irrevocable, in is not. Coming to a politicians mouth near you soon.
If it hasn't already. |
I know it's been dismissed on other threads but I think the opposite is true. 'In' is irrevocable.
I would not be surprised if we had another referendum if we vote 'out'. If there was a mandate to leave, too many vested interests to let that happen without another shot. And there is history for that.
Obviously, I hope an out vote is irrevocable but I just can't see it happen. The rest of the EU depends on the UK net contribution too much and they won't want to fund the difference.
Those French farmers and EU bureaucrats won't pay for themselves you know. |  | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 11:34 - May 27 with 986 views | blueytheblue |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 11:22 - May 27 by jackonicko |
I know it's been dismissed on other threads but I think the opposite is true. 'In' is irrevocable.
I would not be surprised if we had another referendum if we vote 'out'. If there was a mandate to leave, too many vested interests to let that happen without another shot. And there is history for that.
Obviously, I hope an out vote is irrevocable but I just can't see it happen. The rest of the EU depends on the UK net contribution too much and they won't want to fund the difference.
Those French farmers and EU bureaucrats won't pay for themselves you know. |
Yup, EU does depend on Britain's contribution as one of the bigger contributors along with Germany.
Which shows why Britain should leave.
Cameron went to them, negotiated and got the equivalent of Chamberlain's piece of paper, disparaged by EU officials afterwards over it.
They need us, couldn't even throw Cameron a material bone to sell to the voters.
That shows the distain held by the EU towards member states. You must buy into the groupthink... anything else is not allowed.
The EU can never be reformed. Britain leaves, I fully suspect other nations will also want to leave.
Then again, look at other referendums, in particular Ireland.
2001 - Treaty of Nice. Irish voters rejected with 53.9% of vote. No, no, no, we don't accept the result... only 34.8% of population voted. Magically the follow up referendum in 202 voted yes, 62.9% on 49.5% turnout.
2008 - Treaty of Lisbon. 53.2% voted against. No, no, no that result wasn't good enough. Make a few tweaks around abortion, get them vote "correctly". 2009 referendum passed unsurprisingly. | |
| |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 11:54 - May 27 with 973 views | monmouth |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 11:22 - May 27 by jackonicko |
I know it's been dismissed on other threads but I think the opposite is true. 'In' is irrevocable.
I would not be surprised if we had another referendum if we vote 'out'. If there was a mandate to leave, too many vested interests to let that happen without another shot. And there is history for that.
Obviously, I hope an out vote is irrevocable but I just can't see it happen. The rest of the EU depends on the UK net contribution too much and they won't want to fund the difference.
Those French farmers and EU bureaucrats won't pay for themselves you know. |
Ah yes it depends if an initial out vote result is respected, obviously.
As to back in, it would depend whether we were asking or being asked. If we were asking the terms would be ruinous.
What I meant though, is that the 'irrevocable out' is the argument the In crowd will probably use whilst not explicitely inferring a chink of light for another future out vote. That would give any 'too scared to choose' punters an option and boost the In vote. It would be impossible to claim from the out side that we could ever opt back in. [Post edited 27 May 2016 11:55]
| |
| |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 12:04 - May 27 with 960 views | GB11 |
The Remainers have decided now is the time to claim every tom, dick and harry is a racist if they hypothetically suggest controlling immigration may, I repeat, may, help our country.
If a Remainer is losing an argument - Simply rehashing old statements "EU migrants bring a lot to this country" clap clap clap clap from their army of seals in the audience.
Making it an emotional, moral debate, when it was only ever one based on logic.
I was undecided up until this week.
The constant need to turn good debates in to vague shouting contests by the remainers has turned me off. There is no debate for them. It is a race issue and that is that. If you are for remain, you are a good person, if not - Hitler incarnate.
But whatever ya no - The EU is failing on mass, Italy and Spain soon to explode - More bail outs. Mass migration, increasing.
I'm sure it will improve in 30 years time.
Am I for OUT. |  | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 12:58 - May 27 with 934 views | dailew |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 12:04 - May 27 by GB11 |
The Remainers have decided now is the time to claim every tom, dick and harry is a racist if they hypothetically suggest controlling immigration may, I repeat, may, help our country.
If a Remainer is losing an argument - Simply rehashing old statements "EU migrants bring a lot to this country" clap clap clap clap from their army of seals in the audience.
Making it an emotional, moral debate, when it was only ever one based on logic.
I was undecided up until this week.
The constant need to turn good debates in to vague shouting contests by the remainers has turned me off. There is no debate for them. It is a race issue and that is that. If you are for remain, you are a good person, if not - Hitler incarnate.
But whatever ya no - The EU is failing on mass, Italy and Spain soon to explode - More bail outs. Mass migration, increasing.
I'm sure it will improve in 30 years time.
Am I for OUT. |
There's nothing an illiberal liberal likes more than calling soemone a wacist.
Non-EU immigration is the big problem though. EU migration is more of a two way thing and they contribute more. A brexit may forgo Brits the choice to live in an EU country of choice.
Can't see many people wanting to live in Bangladesh or Somalia. |  |
| |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 13:46 - May 27 with 919 views | A_Fans_Dad |
The truth is out after the G7 meeting.
The whole of the western world is bricking it that the UK might leave the EU, which will fail even quicker than it will inevitably do anyway.
They can see that this is likely to cause economic problems for the them.
Is it any wonder that they all want us to stay in the EU, it doesn't matter to them if we are the losers, only that we prop up the failing EU for a bit longer.
The rise in popularity of the far right politics is also scaring the EU bureaucrats, especially after the Austrian election.
They are now talking of banning far right politicians from entering the elections.
Democracy in action. | | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 15:33 - May 27 with 891 views | Swanseajill |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 13:46 - May 27 by A_Fans_Dad |
The truth is out after the G7 meeting.
The whole of the western world is bricking it that the UK might leave the EU, which will fail even quicker than it will inevitably do anyway.
They can see that this is likely to cause economic problems for the them.
Is it any wonder that they all want us to stay in the EU, it doesn't matter to them if we are the losers, only that we prop up the failing EU for a bit longer.
The rise in popularity of the far right politics is also scaring the EU bureaucrats, especially after the Austrian election.
They are now talking of banning far right politicians from entering the elections.
Democracy in action. |
BUt the truth being that G7 never discussed the referendum. It was added in to the statement at the end of the meeting.
Now that the civil servants are not allowed in the next month to spin " percentages" or worry pensioners that there pensions will diminish, hopefully we will get both sides of debate and less scaremongering.
Edward Heath did a lot of scaremongering when we had a referendum to join THe Common market which was ...then only about trade with Europe.
Since then, The EU has turned into a monster that will need to prop up a lot more than Greece. |  | | |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 15:48 - May 27 with 878 views | exiledclaseboy |
| OK Why do people want to vote to leave the EU on 15:33 - May 27 by Swanseajill |
BUt the truth being that G7 never discussed the referendum. It was added in to the statement at the end of the meeting.
Now that the civil servants are not allowed in the next month to spin " percentages" or worry pensioners that there pensions will diminish, hopefully we will get both sides of debate and less scaremongering.
Edward Heath did a lot of scaremongering when we had a referendum to join THe Common market which was ...then only about trade with Europe.
Since then, The EU has turned into a monster that will need to prop up a lot more than Greece. |
Civil sevants only do what their ministers tell them to do. Just saying. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
