| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 13:58 - May 24 with 2523 views | Batterseajack |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 09:53 - May 24 by dickythorpe |
A tragic case all round.
Drink can chill some people out or it can turn them into monsters.
I have to agree with the roid head culture, the last thing you need whilst on steroids is alcohol.
Also the rugby drinking culture is becoming more aggressive due to more steroids in the game.
Cocaine use is far more widespread as well. |
Although we'd be wrong to assume that steroids and cocaine fueled this particular incident, i agree with the broader picture you described.
Grayson Perry did a fantastic three part series investigating men and man culture and how we struggle to shake off their caveman instincts and adapt to modern society. The constant desire to be seen as a hero or be brave and their inability to understand their own emotions can lead to these behaviors which lead to violence on nights out or even suicide, which is far for prevalent to young males than females of the same age. Episode 1 in particular resonated with me (and episode 2 to a degree) as they could easily have been set in Swansea.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/grayson-perry-all-man |  | |  |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 14:05 - May 24 with 2504 views | monmouth |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 13:58 - May 24 by Batterseajack |
Although we'd be wrong to assume that steroids and cocaine fueled this particular incident, i agree with the broader picture you described.
Grayson Perry did a fantastic three part series investigating men and man culture and how we struggle to shake off their caveman instincts and adapt to modern society. The constant desire to be seen as a hero or be brave and their inability to understand their own emotions can lead to these behaviors which lead to violence on nights out or even suicide, which is far for prevalent to young males than females of the same age. Episode 1 in particular resonated with me (and episode 2 to a degree) as they could easily have been set in Swansea.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/grayson-perry-all-man |
Makes my sexually indiscriminate, though generally female focused, behaviour after too much alcohol seem almost socially acceptable.
Does make you wonder who we really are though, or whether we are simply multiple personalities fighting for dominance, with stimulants like drugs or alcohol tipping the balance towards one of our many true personalities. |  |
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 14:25 - May 24 with 2470 views | DafyddHuw |
I feel sorry for the guy who punched him. What happened to going out for a night without having drunks all over you trying to prove what a "man" they are?
If you can't handle your drink, then stay in or have a couple of really good mates with you to slap you down when you get out of order. |  | | |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 14:31 - May 24 with 2460 views | controversial_jack |
Nights out are generally a lot safer than they were in the 70s and early 80s, when mass punch ups were common most weekend nights | | | |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 14:47 - May 24 with 2430 views | Batterseajack |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 14:25 - May 24 by DafyddHuw |
I feel sorry for the guy who punched him. What happened to going out for a night without having drunks all over you trying to prove what a "man" they are?
If you can't handle your drink, then stay in or have a couple of really good mates with you to slap you down when you get out of order. |
There's self defense, then there is punching someone full out in the back of the head whilst they are walking away and not expecting it. Two wrongs don't make a right. Its clear that Spud wasn't behaving like a saint that night, but lets not kid ourselves the defendant was either. | | | |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 15:01 - May 24 with 2402 views | swanjackal |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 14:47 - May 24 by Batterseajack |
There's self defense, then there is punching someone full out in the back of the head whilst they are walking away and not expecting it. Two wrongs don't make a right. Its clear that Spud wasn't behaving like a saint that night, but lets not kid ourselves the defendant was either. |
I agree. In that mentioned, if someone were to punch me in the back of the head, I have a portion of my lower skull removed, and that could be fatal, regardless of how hard the punch is. Nobody knows what a person gas gone through where even minimal contact could be fatal. |  |
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Hypocritically hypocritical ! |
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 15:26 - May 24 with 2362 views | blueytheblue |
You can walk away and it can still be self defence. If he made a movement the other guy interpreted as leading to a possible attack then it's still self-defence. | |
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 15:30 - May 24 with 2357 views | DafyddHuw |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 14:47 - May 24 by Batterseajack |
There's self defense, then there is punching someone full out in the back of the head whilst they are walking away and not expecting it. Two wrongs don't make a right. Its clear that Spud wasn't behaving like a saint that night, but lets not kid ourselves the defendant was either. |
" there is punching someone full out in the back of the head whilst they are walking away and not expecting it"
You say this as if it were a fact. Thought te defence (not defense, unless you're American) said that the blow was aimed to the side of the head (I can quote from the report if you like). Not seen the CCTV footage, so I can't really say what happened. Neither can you.
The fact us that someone, of an exemplary character, went out one night and may well now have to serve a jail sentence because Thomas couldn't hold his drink and wanted to prove how alpha-male he was. | | | |
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 15:58 - May 24 with 2304 views | Batterseajack |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 15:30 - May 24 by DafyddHuw |
" there is punching someone full out in the back of the head whilst they are walking away and not expecting it"
You say this as if it were a fact. Thought te defence (not defense, unless you're American) said that the blow was aimed to the side of the head (I can quote from the report if you like). Not seen the CCTV footage, so I can't really say what happened. Neither can you.
The fact us that someone, of an exemplary character, went out one night and may well now have to serve a jail sentence because Thomas couldn't hold his drink and wanted to prove how alpha-male he was. |
I'm becoming all too reliant on spell check these days and defence brings up that squiggly red line underneath in my browser. No excuse though.
Hit from the side of the head whilst coming from behind Jonny - I didn't think that's even under dispute.
It will be up to the Jury to decide whether that really was an act in self defence when the deceased was seemingly walking away, or whether he was retaliating to having his ego bruised in front of his mates and tried to restore his respect by punching jonny when he had his back turned. I may be wrong, but punching someone under these circumstances rather than simply walking away would inflame the situation rather than make it better. | | | |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 16:05 - May 24 with 2291 views | raynor94 |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 15:30 - May 24 by DafyddHuw |
" there is punching someone full out in the back of the head whilst they are walking away and not expecting it"
You say this as if it were a fact. Thought te defence (not defense, unless you're American) said that the blow was aimed to the side of the head (I can quote from the report if you like). Not seen the CCTV footage, so I can't really say what happened. Neither can you.
The fact us that someone, of an exemplary character, went out one night and may well now have to serve a jail sentence because Thomas couldn't hold his drink and wanted to prove how alpha-male he was. |
He hit him from behind full stop, yes he'd behaving like an arse minutes earlier but the fact of the matter is he was walking away hands in the air, as every witness testified, he could have left it but he decided not too, a tragedy for both families |  |
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 16:50 - May 24 with 2236 views | VetchitBack |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 19:21 - May 23 by Jackfath |
Nonsense. I am talking of BOTH families lives altered forever. BOTH parties could've walked away. You are the one who is generalising assuming I am talking about one party. |
Yes of course that's what you meant  |  |
| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 16:53 - May 24 with 2231 views | VetchitBack |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 16:05 - May 24 by raynor94 |
He hit him from behind full stop, yes he'd behaving like an arse minutes earlier but the fact of the matter is he was walking away hands in the air, as every witness testified, he could have left it but he decided not too, a tragedy for both families |
Barging into women, offering a boyfriend of the one of the women out for a fight down an alley then punching him to the floor when he refused is "behaving like an arse"??? | |
| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 16:57 - May 24 with 2219 views | blueytheblue |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 16:53 - May 24 by VetchitBack |
Barging into women, offering a boyfriend of the one of the women out for a fight down an alley then punching him to the floor when he refused is "behaving like an arse"??? |
Think you'll find the term for that when performed by an egg chaser / egg chasing fan is "high jinks". | |
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 17:24 - May 24 with 2178 views | raynor94 |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 16:53 - May 24 by VetchitBack |
Barging into women, offering a boyfriend of the one of the women out for a fight down an alley then punching him to the floor when he refused is "behaving like an arse"??? |
Call him whatever you like, but the second incident he was walking away which is indisputable, and the punch was not a spur of the moment action, let's wait and see what the jury make of it | |
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 17:28 - May 24 with 2166 views | shimmie |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 16:53 - May 24 by VetchitBack |
Barging into women, offering a boyfriend of the one of the women out for a fight down an alley then punching him to the floor when he refused is "behaving like an arse"??? |
No. It's utterly reprehensible and should've be punishable by death. Luckily in this instance justice was served. Jesus Christ, I wish I was such an angel and have never woken up after a night out thinking "you sir, are a complete prick". I knew spud, always thought he was sound. Sounds like he antagonised the situation and the defendant stole one on him. | | | |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 17:48 - May 24 with 2070 views | VetchitBack |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 17:28 - May 24 by shimmie |
No. It's utterly reprehensible and should've be punishable by death. Luckily in this instance justice was served. Jesus Christ, I wish I was such an angel and have never woken up after a night out thinking "you sir, are a complete prick". I knew spud, always thought he was sound. Sounds like he antagonised the situation and the defendant stole one on him. |
Some rather blasé attitudes to unprovoked violence.
I'm gonna step back here as I know neither party, the trial is ongoing with many allegations at this stage being just that.
But as a general comment I class anyone who punches someone to the ground with no provocation, 'just because he can'', as much much much worse than an arse, a complete prick, not an angel etc etc | |
| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 17:57 - May 24 with 2052 views | Jackfath |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 16:50 - May 24 by VetchitBack |
Yes of course that's what you meant |
Read what I wrote. I am unsure as to why you've chosen to point score on such a tragic thread. Pathetic. |  |
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 18:35 - May 24 with 1999 views | Gowerjack |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 15:30 - May 24 by DafyddHuw |
" there is punching someone full out in the back of the head whilst they are walking away and not expecting it"
You say this as if it were a fact. Thought te defence (not defense, unless you're American) said that the blow was aimed to the side of the head (I can quote from the report if you like). Not seen the CCTV footage, so I can't really say what happened. Neither can you.
The fact us that someone, of an exemplary character, went out one night and may well now have to serve a jail sentence because Thomas couldn't hold his drink and wanted to prove how alpha-male he was. |
If the jury accepts that the death was caused by the defendant than he's guilty.
Two wrongs don't make a right. |  |
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 18:44 - May 24 with 1981 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 22:29 - May 23 by Joe_bradshaw |
I would urge caution in coming to conclusions based on an Evening Post story.
I did jury service a few years ago and when I read the EP accounts of the trials that I was involved in after they had finished I barely recognised them. |
the post is a rag of a paper |  |
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 19:30 - May 24 with 1912 views | oldcob |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 13:50 - May 24 by Highjack |
A man is dead because of his reckless action. His whole future depends on whether he can prove it was self defence. If it's true that it was a punch to the back of the head this defence falls down rather quickly. |
Defendant doesn't have to prove anything. The burden of proof is with the prosecution. | | | |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 19:45 - May 24 with 1876 views | Highjack |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 19:30 - May 24 by oldcob |
Defendant doesn't have to prove anything. The burden of proof is with the prosecution. |
Ok I should have worded it differently for pedantic people: "his whole future depends on whether or not the prosecution can prove that the defence claim that it was self defence is wrong and can build a good enough argument that it wasn't self defence to sway the jury to bring a conviction." |  |
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 19:50 - May 24 with 1862 views | blueytheblue |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 19:45 - May 24 by Highjack |
Ok I should have worded it differently for pedantic people: "his whole future depends on whether or not the prosecution can prove that the defence claim that it was self defence is wrong and can build a good enough argument that it wasn't self defence to sway the jury to bring a conviction." |
How is he being pedantic?
You wrote " His whole future depends on whether he can prove it was self defence.". Pretty unambiguous that, stating the onus was on the defendant.
The previous actions of the deceased would introduce some element of reasonable doubt. Even walking away doesn't mean it wasn't self-defence if the defendant felt under imminent attack. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:52 - May 24 with 1855 views | exiledclaseboy |
I know nothing about this case really, but if Man A punched Man B and Man B died as a result of that punch then Man A is probably going down for manslaughter. [Post edited 25 May 2016 19:07]
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| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 20:02 - May 24 with 1839 views | pikeypaul |
| The Jonny Thomas Trial on 14:47 - May 24 by Batterseajack |
There's self defense, then there is punching someone full out in the back of the head whilst they are walking away and not expecting it. Two wrongs don't make a right. Its clear that Spud wasn't behaving like a saint that night, but lets not kid ourselves the defendant was either. |
Correct "spud,was not behaving like a saint" he was behaving like a bullying w@nker smacking a guy to the floor for no reason at all,then within minutes smacking another guy to the floor,Niether he knew or had caused him a problem.I bet his family are proud of him knowing now what he was like.
He did not deserve to die but he brought on the whole situation himself,which not even the prosecution has denied.
I think the jury will be out for a long time and would not bet on the outcome. [Post edited 24 May 2016 20:17]
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