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The referendum was "non-binding", we have yet to invoke 'article 50' and can do so at our leisure. The EU wants us to exit ASAP and desires a swift conclusion. Why? Because it is creating financial turmoil for them too....because they are prevented from moving forward with deeper union until this has been resolved....and because it is creating tensions within individual states, there is a serious risk of EU break-up.
Despite wishing for a swift conclusion they have stated that there will be "no informal negotiations" and that "negotiations will only begin once 'Article 50' is invoked".
Frankly, the decision for when we invoke 'Article 50' is out of their hands....and the more they stamp their feet and be unreasonable the more the political tensions in their own countries and between EU states increase.
I can see us dragging this out and creating as much mischief as possible within the EU. Nothing has changed at the moment....all the anxiety concerns what speculators are doing in financial markets. The longer this drags on, the longer the financial uncertainty, the more the political tensions in the EU increase.
They will HAVE to start informal negotiations with us. There is NOTHING they can do about the timescale. We will hold out for a good deal and we will get it or the EU will burn down. Why? Mass youth unemployment, piss weak economies, mass immigration, TTIP and terrorism. The Greeks are now anti-EU, the party making all the gains in Italy are Eurosceptic, an anti-EU party in Germany is increasing in the polls, France have Marine Le Pen on the far right demanding a referendum and many on the far left unhappy with the EU, the Eastern European states have openly disobeyed the EU, Poland is already stating that it is the EU who should be bending to keep the UK, There are tensions in Holland and Scandinavia too....the EU does not win at the ballot box in any European state. The other European citizens will be demanding their say at the ballot box.
We have the cards, we now just need someone with a cool head to play them.
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 23:17 - Jun 28 by londonlisa2001
It's only been two days! As I said another £5bn is going in next week (Tuesday).
So that's £8.1bn - as you say, not a lot in some ways, but quite a lot in 10 days given that the annual budget for the Welsh Government last year was £15.3bn.
The 'backstop' as you casually describe it, is real - it's a commitment to inject that amount if needed, not an assurance given off the hoof.
Lisa, if you work in the City of London you probably know better than I that markets bet on a 'remain' win, hence the pound strengthening all the way up to 10 o'clock on Thursday.
They got it wrong and had to dump their positions to minimize losses. Today was the third day after the result and both the pound and the UK stock market went up. It will be steady as she goes from here until it becomes clear what is actually going to change and what some of the consequences of that change will be. Panic is always the wrong option.
Haven't read all pages so sorry if I'm repeating something that has already been said but to the OP "we hold the cards" that's an example of the delusional arrogant crap that has got us into this mess. Complete fiasco and parallels with England Iceland.
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 23:29 - Jun 28 by Kerouac
Lisa, if you work in the City of London you probably know better than I that markets bet on a 'remain' win, hence the pound strengthening all the way up to 10 o'clock on Thursday.
They got it wrong and had to dump their positions to minimize losses. Today was the third day after the result and both the pound and the UK stock market went up. It will be steady as she goes from here until it becomes clear what is actually going to change and what some of the consequences of that change will be. Panic is always the wrong option.
I already said (on page 2) that it's the longer term economic indicators that are important. The credit rating is not good news though. The BofE support is, but obviously that has a price and it's potentially huge sums.
Panic is not the right option, but as bad is the current inactivity which is why I said Carney had done well as at least one person (institution if you prefer) that is focussed on now rather than being distracted by internal politics.
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EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 00:11 - Jun 29 with 1108 views
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 23:50 - Jun 28 by longlostjack
Haven't read all pages so sorry if I'm repeating something that has already been said but to the OP "we hold the cards" that's an example of the delusional arrogant crap that has got us into this mess. Complete fiasco and parallels with England Iceland.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. The reaction to the Iceland defeat was so predictable it's untrue. It's so obvious what England needs to do - they need to find an identity. But to do so they need to look at what other nations have done when faced with similar crises. Germany, Belgium and Iceland completely revolutionised their footballing structures from top to bottom to maximize their chances of success. They didn't expect overnight success, but made a long-term commitment to transforming their chances of success.
Can you see England having the humility to say - let's study what Germany and Belgium, or (God forbid) tiny Iceland, have got right?
The truth is the FAW (or its Trust arm to be precise) are ahead of the FA when it comes to grassroots development. But I'm quite content with the knowledge that England would never consider learning from its little kid brother.
The attitude of the FA to the rest of the World pretty much reflects the little Britain worldview in general. Johnny Foreigner has nothing to teach us is the unbending sentiment.
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EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 00:26 - Jun 29 with 1128 views
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 22:50 - Jun 28 by Kerouac
Well it needed pointing out as some were wittering nonsense like "thank god for Mark Carney" or some such drivel..... Like he is the most important factor in the resilience of the UK economy, he alone stood there with his finger in the dyke, one Canadian between us and armageddon....
.... as opposed to the facts - that the BoE has always paid it's debts, a proud record that has stood for hundreds of years. - that we have our own currency and therefore have all the tools at our disposal to stabilise the situation ourselves - that we have had literally YEARS to prepare for this (the Scottish referendum being the dry run), to prepare our banks to run through all likely scenarios....there has long been a plan in place that involves a great number of people both in planning the strategy and implementing the plan.
BUT THANK FUKK FOR MARK CARNEY. Let's all get down on our knees and genuflect before the guy because he's the bloke that reads out the statements on TV.
Talking of "dopey kunts" can you tell me how much money the BoE has "injected into markets" today? Got another snappy one liner for me
[Post edited 28 Jun 2016 22:51]
".... as opposed to the facts - that the BoE has always paid it's debts, a proud record that has stood for hundreds of years. "
Yeah great one. The BoE decided that after WWII it would put the balance book back in the black whilst Germany invested in it's infrastructure etc... Look who is Europe's biggest and strongest economy! Guess what, even after waves of patriotic Brits take control and make Britain "Great" again, as some would have it, we wont even get close. Do us all a favour and bookmark this and then you can come back in many years time and say...(not a lot).
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
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EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 01:07 - Jun 29 with 1111 views
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 00:26 - Jun 29 by DJack
".... as opposed to the facts - that the BoE has always paid it's debts, a proud record that has stood for hundreds of years. "
Yeah great one. The BoE decided that after WWII it would put the balance book back in the black whilst Germany invested in it's infrastructure etc... Look who is Europe's biggest and strongest economy! Guess what, even after waves of patriotic Brits take control and make Britain "Great" again, as some would have it, we wont even get close. Do us all a favour and bookmark this and then you can come back in many years time and say...(not a lot).
The main reasons for post war economic growth in West Germany ;
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 21:02 - Jun 28 by sherpajacob
Brexit :The Blackest of black comedies. We ve had remain voters hijacking a leave voters petition IDS saying "I never said that" about the campaigns flagship slogan. Labour MPs in revolt even though their supporters actually voted overwhelming to remain. People who voted leave to stop Muslims coming in from Africa. Boris is now in favour of the single market and free movement
and now this which I think would be the ultimately irony. A main leave issue was the fact that our own parliament no longer had control of Great Britain.. Vote leave and take back control they said.
In transpires that our parliament and MPs do have control and the ultimate say after all. We've voted to give control to our own parliamentary democracy, and our elected representatives when presented with Article 50, are well within their rights to say,, "No, we'll stay as we are thank you" I trust they do just that.
No. As much as you and I may hate it the Great British public was offered the chance to remain in or leave the EU. They chose to leave the EU. We absolutely cannot now refuse to do so because the vote went against us.
They say it was anger at being ignored which made them vote this way. They'll be a hell of a lot more angry if we go back on what was promised to them.
The Great British public has spoken. The Great British public should now live with the consequences of what they've voted for.
Good or bad.
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EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 08:03 - Jun 29 with 1045 views
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 01:21 - Jun 29 by dailew
UK got 2.3 times as much as Germany from the Marshall Plan.
[Post edited 29 Jun 2016 1:55]
Did you have a look at the third link?
Germany got to hit the reset button; new currency, less currency in circulation, the elimination of price controls, reduced tax rates.....as well as the help received from the Marshall plan and their national debt being written off.
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 00:11 - Jun 29 by BytholWyn
I was thinking exactly the same thing. The reaction to the Iceland defeat was so predictable it's untrue. It's so obvious what England needs to do - they need to find an identity. But to do so they need to look at what other nations have done when faced with similar crises. Germany, Belgium and Iceland completely revolutionised their footballing structures from top to bottom to maximize their chances of success. They didn't expect overnight success, but made a long-term commitment to transforming their chances of success.
Can you see England having the humility to say - let's study what Germany and Belgium, or (God forbid) tiny Iceland, have got right?
The truth is the FAW (or its Trust arm to be precise) are ahead of the FA when it comes to grassroots development. But I'm quite content with the knowledge that England would never consider learning from its little kid brother.
The attitude of the FA to the rest of the World pretty much reflects the little Britain worldview in general. Johnny Foreigner has nothing to teach us is the unbending sentiment.
There has been a coaching revolution in Wales over the last couple of decades, I have heard that they come from all over the World to Wales to learn under the World renowned guru Osian Roberts.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 08:03 - Jun 29 by Kerouac
Did you have a look at the third link?
Germany got to hit the reset button; new currency, less currency in circulation, the elimination of price controls, reduced tax rates.....as well as the help received from the Marshall plan and their national debt being written off.
"...EU Leaders made it crystal clear today that access to the single market requires acceptance of all four freedoms, including the freedom of movement. There will be no single market "Ã la carte..."
So, that's the entire Leave campaign's manifesto out of the window...
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 21:13 - Jun 29 by FearOfAJackPlanet
EU Council statement:
"...EU Leaders made it crystal clear today that access to the single market requires acceptance of all four freedoms, including the freedom of movement. There will be no single market "Ã la carte..."
So, that's the entire Leave campaign's manifesto out of the window...
It's fine mun. Were holding all the cards. Apparently.
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 21:13 - Jun 29 by FearOfAJackPlanet
EU Council statement:
"...EU Leaders made it crystal clear today that access to the single market requires acceptance of all four freedoms, including the freedom of movement. There will be no single market "Ã la carte..."
So, that's the entire Leave campaign's manifesto out of the window...
Boris want freedom of movement in Europe and that's what leave voters want as well, so let's crack on.
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 22:22 - Jun 29 by vetchonian
We leave negotiate a deal with access to the single market but have to give way on free movement and end up paying more than currently
In other words worse off than we were
But also free to negotiate our own deals with India, China, The US and anyone else we care to.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 23:04 - Jun 29 with 1017 views
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 22:25 - Jun 29 by Dr_Winston
But also free to negotiate our own deals with India, China, The US and anyone else we care to.
Why do you think we'll be able to negotiate more favourable deals with these countries than are in place between them and the EU?
Particularly more favourable to the ordinary worker? Our veto of the imposition of taffis on Chinese steel may be a sign of things to come?
I have no idea whether we can or not, but I find the fact that people seem to believe we definitely will to be baseless. We are a smaller market than the EU with us in it (and the EU without us) so why do we now become more attractive?
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EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 23:21 - Jun 29 with 1000 views
EU negotiations - How do you see them panning out? on 23:12 - Jun 29 by londonlisa2001
Why do you think we'll be able to negotiate more favourable deals with these countries than are in place between them and the EU?
Particularly more favourable to the ordinary worker? Our veto of the imposition of taffis on Chinese steel may be a sign of things to come?
I have no idea whether we can or not, but I find the fact that people seem to believe we definitely will to be baseless. We are a smaller market than the EU with us in it (and the EU without us) so why do we now become more attractive?
I was trying to elucidate this to a former colleague of mine this very evening.
All he kept reverting to was that GB was great before we entered the EU and we will be again.
Lord_Jack increasingly detached from the riches of kicking a ball
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