By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Brexit trade deals on 13:34 - Aug 18 by AnotherJohn
I suppose I was trying to add a caveat to my claim about opportunities for work abroad by saying that this depends on having skills to offer. Is it really such a sophisticated argument to say that the referendum result can be attributed to the manipulation of uneducated people by a segment of the mass media? Lohengrin is closer to the mark with his picture of alienated working class communities that have experienced the sharp end of globalisation and come to a reasoned conclusion about where their interests lie. But of course debates about sovereignty, the democratic deficit, and the general direction of Commission policy have extended right across the social classes - from Tony Benn to Arthur Scargill if you like. In fact the critics of the EU include many people who had the benefit of a rather good education.
Mentioning the effets of the right wing media on the uneducated majority might not be a sophisticated argument but it is the truth. Those archives of those papers in the run up to the referendum are there for everyone to see. They were very calculated in their propoganda just as the most prominent brexit campaigners were very calculated with what they put forth but then admitted on June 24th probably wouldn't be delivered.
I posted this clip prior to the referendum and I will again now. From around 0.50 John Major sums it up perfectly:
I've still yet to hear even one person from the leave campaign who has any sort of plan or even half convincing idea of how things are suposedly going to be better for this country as a result of the vote. It just defies all sense to spend our resources for so many years on a needless 'divorce' while simultaneously stating things are going to be better. If anything is going to be better and that is a huge if which I completely disagree with, it certainly wont be better for many years and we will absolutely have to go through some sh*t times. Nobody with a sane mind just ignores the opinions of their doctors when told they are going to get ill living a certain lifestyle yet so many people did just that with the economy.
[Post edited 18 Aug 2016 14:32]
2
Brexit trade deals on 14:55 - Aug 18 with 1495 views
Mentioning the effets of the right wing media on the uneducated majority might not be a sophisticated argument but it is the truth. Those archives of those papers in the run up to the referendum are there for everyone to see. They were very calculated in their propoganda just as the most prominent brexit campaigners were very calculated with what they put forth but then admitted on June 24th probably wouldn't be delivered.
I posted this clip prior to the referendum and I will again now. From around 0.50 John Major sums it up perfectly:
I've still yet to hear even one person from the leave campaign who has any sort of plan or even half convincing idea of how things are suposedly going to be better for this country as a result of the vote. It just defies all sense to spend our resources for so many years on a needless 'divorce' while simultaneously stating things are going to be better. If anything is going to be better and that is a huge if which I completely disagree with, it certainly wont be better for many years and we will absolutely have to go through some sh*t times. Nobody with a sane mind just ignores the opinions of their doctors when told they are going to get ill living a certain lifestyle yet so many people did just that with the economy.
[Post edited 18 Aug 2016 14:32]
Rubbish. And I voted remain. Yet to see any of the doomsday scenario put about pre vote, in fact FTSE 100 is up 15% unemployment down,world war 3not started, USA have not put us at the back of the 'queue',house price not dropped apart from the multi million London market,sterling drops great for exports and jobs. Happy days.
OUT AFLI SUCK IT UP REMOANER LOSERS
🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
Rubbish. And I voted remain. Yet to see any of the doomsday scenario put about pre vote, in fact FTSE 100 is up 15% unemployment down,world war 3not started, USA have not put us at the back of the 'queue',house price not dropped apart from the multi million London market,sterling drops great for exports and jobs. Happy days.
The 'ww3 not started' discredits your post immediately. Cameron never even mentioned ww3.. He stated that the 'EU' was originally set up to promote peaceful relations after ww2. He was then childishly mocked by a campaign focused on emotion without any substance.
The rest is just something I keep seeing..a mix of cherry picked or misunderstood figures or statements. Take a look again at some of the time periods those are over or the reasons for them. And to state that the pound being so low is a good thing is just ridiculous. For a start we import far more than we export, secondly even most exporting business need to import aswell, thirdly why be happy that all of our money/savings is worth so much less in the world? Lowest pound to dollar in 31 years was predicted and really isn't a joking matter. It hasn't climbed. It's down against the euro. Why is that? Have people properly considered the reasons why FTSE companies are up currently? Have they also forgotten the action that the bank of England has taken? The actual figures in the period since the referendum have shown that all of our major industries contracted (services, manufacturing, property)...
Please tell me how you think against all the experts recommendations that somehow spending so many years in future negotiating brexit will be good for our economy. Given that even the most right wing papers have admitted now that a recession is likely and that trade deals will take significantly longer than the time it will take to get out of the EU..where are the economic positives? It would be good if someone could answer directly rather than just shouting 'rubbish' because still I have yet to see anybody give an answer to this.
1
Brexit trade deals on 15:54 - Aug 18 with 1471 views
There is an upside to all this, I suppose. Perhaps the cradle of the industrial revolution may actually start to make things again, make them primarily for the home market.
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
1
Brexit trade deals on 16:00 - Aug 18 with 1464 views
Moody's were predicting doom and gloom pre-referendum, but have now modified their stance. They say no recession, but some slowing of the economy. You have to register here to get the full report.
Moody's were predicting doom and gloom pre-referendum, but have now modified their stance. They say no recession, but some slowing of the economy. You have to register here to get the full report.
Title: Sovereigns--Brexit and European Union: Direct Impact is minor, but may have credit implications for those with less policy space
Anyway I think this topic will generate heat for some time to come and that we will have to agree to disagree - hopefully without the name-calling.
I didn't see them predict a recession beforehand. They said it would be bad for the economy which it is. If you look back at the reports when they downgraded our countries credit rating, they said similar...i.e.a slowing of growth.
Here's another from today about the confidence from our very own banks:
As an aside, one of the comments on that article makes depressing reading:
"Today the £ = €1,16. Then you have to pay the commission charges, meaning that the £ has now reached effective parity with the € if you use an airport Bureau de Change. Things are really looking up for you, aren't they..."
[Post edited 18 Aug 2016 17:03]
0
Brexit trade deals on 17:18 - Aug 18 with 1429 views
I didn't see them predict a recession beforehand. They said it would be bad for the economy which it is. If you look back at the reports when they downgraded our countries credit rating, they said similar...i.e.a slowing of growth.
Here's another from today about the confidence from our very own banks:
As an aside, one of the comments on that article makes depressing reading:
"Today the £ = €1,16. Then you have to pay the commission charges, meaning that the £ has now reached effective parity with the € if you use an airport Bureau de Change. Things are really looking up for you, aren't they..."
[Post edited 18 Aug 2016 17:03]
The latter is an especially silly story based on rates at Stansted airport. If anybody really want to buy euros look here - several options over 1.13.
Brexit trade deals on 12:46 - Aug 18 by dickythorpe
The British fishing industry will thrive now we are out of the EU. We should be proud of that industry.
Not necessarily, much of our fish gets shipped abroad. Do you think the EU will sit idly by if our fishing boats start over fishing shared European waters to obliteration?
Rubbish. And I voted remain. Yet to see any of the doomsday scenario put about pre vote, in fact FTSE 100 is up 15% unemployment down,world war 3not started, USA have not put us at the back of the 'queue',house price not dropped apart from the multi million London market,sterling drops great for exports and jobs. Happy days.
If you voted remain why did you say "We have won" just an hour or so after the result was official?
I'm always sceptical of these "i voted remain but..." posts. Lying is something thst many leave supporters do quite frequently, whether to others or themselves. Over on the daily mail they don't even believe the sudden drop in the pound on the 24th June was due to brexit. Beggars belief.
0
Brexit trade deals on 19:32 - Aug 18 with 1387 views
Jeez.. What a well thought out reply. Such simple statements are what have got us into this mess : 'take back control', 'if you have skills you'll get work', 'other countries are more racist'. I've seen those things written hundreds of times in the daily mail comments section. I mean 'f*ck the reality of the current and future situation, f*ck what any experts say...f*ck really thinking about it full stop. If the emotion feels right then do it'. That's basically the way that most leave voters minds work.
[Post edited 18 Aug 2016 12:01]
If anyone is guilty of trotting out simple ststements it's you mate. And you are getting very emotional yourself about this whole Brexit result. I'm sure if you were to go abroad to work now you would be welcomed in Europe as article 50 is't likely to be triggered until at least January.
So which country do you want to go to work in then? Which is your strongest European language(obviously apart from English)?
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
0
Brexit trade deals on 19:34 - Aug 18 with 1385 views
Brexit trade deals on 19:32 - Aug 18 by Brynmill_Jack
If anyone is guilty of trotting out simple ststements it's you mate. And you are getting very emotional yourself about this whole Brexit result. I'm sure if you were to go abroad to work now you would be welcomed in Europe as article 50 is't likely to be triggered until at least January.
So which country do you want to go to work in then? Which is your strongest European language(obviously apart from English)?
From what I'm seeing I'll be amazed if Article 50 is triggered as early as January.
The 'ww3 not started' discredits your post immediately. Cameron never even mentioned ww3.. He stated that the 'EU' was originally set up to promote peaceful relations after ww2. He was then childishly mocked by a campaign focused on emotion without any substance.
The rest is just something I keep seeing..a mix of cherry picked or misunderstood figures or statements. Take a look again at some of the time periods those are over or the reasons for them. And to state that the pound being so low is a good thing is just ridiculous. For a start we import far more than we export, secondly even most exporting business need to import aswell, thirdly why be happy that all of our money/savings is worth so much less in the world? Lowest pound to dollar in 31 years was predicted and really isn't a joking matter. It hasn't climbed. It's down against the euro. Why is that? Have people properly considered the reasons why FTSE companies are up currently? Have they also forgotten the action that the bank of England has taken? The actual figures in the period since the referendum have shown that all of our major industries contracted (services, manufacturing, property)...
Please tell me how you think against all the experts recommendations that somehow spending so many years in future negotiating brexit will be good for our economy. Given that even the most right wing papers have admitted now that a recession is likely and that trade deals will take significantly longer than the time it will take to get out of the EU..where are the economic positives? It would be good if someone could answer directly rather than just shouting 'rubbish' because still I have yet to see anybody give an answer to this.
Childishly mocking is exactly what you're doing now though isn't it?
[Post edited 18 Aug 2016 20:13]
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
0
Brexit trade deals on 20:15 - Aug 18 with 1356 views
One look at comments on the daily mail or express websites (pro brexit readers for anyone who isn't aware) tells me all I need to know. The daily mail actually had an article the other day where one of the highest rated comments praised a certain German WW2 leader for the way he 'at least put the Germans first'. The article was about immigration and the EU. Made me sick to read it but also angry that so many people feel this way. It was no coincidence that racist attacks rose after brexit. What's more, those same people have potentially taken away my right to live, work or retire abroad in friendlier places. Again, sickening.
Your point about people 'not knowing WTF the EU do' is meaningless. People say the same about our own poloticians 'what do they do'. It's human nature to hate anybody that we see as having some sort of power over us but views about 'what they do' are generally uneducated. I remember from my time working in the public sector how people moaned about what public sector employees did without any thought to the services and facilities all around them. Red tape and businesses? Not so sure on that. Perhaps some had reason to be miffed at the EU but I know quite a fee small business voters who voted in on their realisation of what this vote would do to the economy and in particular the value of the pound/cost of importing.
I hope you are aware that the Labour prty was vehemently anti Europe and campaigned against Edward Heath signing the treaty of Rome in the first place. Yep, those xenophobic left ingers, just like Frank Field and George Galloway.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
0
Brexit trade deals on 00:23 - Aug 19 with 1310 views
Rod Liddle was good on tonight's Newsnight, he was mocking the Labour Party but touched on Europe as he was filming in Middlesboro (a Brexit heartland). The working class in this country have called "bull-shit!" on the claims made for the European Union in this country. The people who benefit from our membership of the EU want to make out we have 17 million "bigots" in this country but this is obviously not so. The "no" vote was entirely logical .
What people want is what they always want; a good job, their own house and a decent standard of living...AND THE SAME FOR THEIR CHILDREN. The working class of this country do not wish to make an already competitive economic environment even more competitive for their children...and they could easily see that the mess European politicians have made of the Eurozone economies was going to lead to hundreds of thousands of skilled/educated/unemployed/English speaking European young people seeking work here (on top of the already huge number of unskilled labour that has been coming in from Eastern Europe).
I'm going to risk a Cantona moment now; When the rooks see an Owl (a natural predator of their young) move into the neighbourhood they do not welcome him in with open wings. They chase him off, sometimes violently. A rook who did the opposite would be, at best, one confused rook
I see that unemployment is down and retail spending in July (the month following our rejection of the EU) was 6% up on the previous July...1.6% up on June 2016 also. Also a retail property auction in London in July sold most of it's lots for higher prices than expected. Some serious people backing the outlook for a post Brexit economy.
Rod Liddle was good on tonight's Newsnight, he was mocking the Labour Party but touched on Europe as he was filming in Middlesboro (a Brexit heartland). The working class in this country have called "bull-shit!" on the claims made for the European Union in this country. The people who benefit from our membership of the EU want to make out we have 17 million "bigots" in this country but this is obviously not so. The "no" vote was entirely logical .
What people want is what they always want; a good job, their own house and a decent standard of living...AND THE SAME FOR THEIR CHILDREN. The working class of this country do not wish to make an already competitive economic environment even more competitive for their children...and they could easily see that the mess European politicians have made of the Eurozone economies was going to lead to hundreds of thousands of skilled/educated/unemployed/English speaking European young people seeking work here (on top of the already huge number of unskilled labour that has been coming in from Eastern Europe).
I'm going to risk a Cantona moment now; When the rooks see an Owl (a natural predator of their young) move into the neighbourhood they do not welcome him in with open wings. They chase him off, sometimes violently. A rook who did the opposite would be, at best, one confused rook
I see that unemployment is down and retail spending in July (the month following our rejection of the EU) was 6% up on the previous July...1.6% up on June 2016 also. Also a retail property auction in London in July sold most of it's lots for higher prices than expected. Some serious people backing the outlook for a post Brexit economy.
[Post edited 19 Aug 2016 0:41]
Back to Immigration again...
How has immigration ruined the job prospects and economy in the north (or wales for that matter)?
0
Brexit trade deals on 18:52 - Aug 19 with 1030 views
Brexit trade deals on 11:38 - Aug 19 by Batterseajack
Back to Immigration again...
How has immigration ruined the job prospects and economy in the north (or wales for that matter)?
I think that if the standard of living was a lot higher in this country, no one was employed on poverty wages and there was general contentment among the populace then immigration wouldn't be half the issue it is now.
I don't care if we take in professionals from the E.U. to hlp with shortages of staff in the NHS etc etc as it's a massive benefit to the country.
It's an entirely different proposition flooding the countrywith low skilled button pushers from Romania or Bulgaria with hardly any English language skills. It's for this reason that the living wage is increasingly common , even for semi skilled machining jobs. It's exploiting them which in turn exploits us. Is that xenophobic??
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
3
Brexit trade deals on 22:05 - Aug 19 with 989 views
Brexit trade deals on 18:52 - Aug 19 by Brynmill_Jack
I think that if the standard of living was a lot higher in this country, no one was employed on poverty wages and there was general contentment among the populace then immigration wouldn't be half the issue it is now.
I don't care if we take in professionals from the E.U. to hlp with shortages of staff in the NHS etc etc as it's a massive benefit to the country.
It's an entirely different proposition flooding the countrywith low skilled button pushers from Romania or Bulgaria with hardly any English language skills. It's for this reason that the living wage is increasingly common , even for semi skilled machining jobs. It's exploiting them which in turn exploits us. Is that xenophobic??
Precisely. The most racist comment from the referendum debates were from the remain camp that we desperately need these immigrants because they are the only ones who will do the shyte jobs.
One particular comment on here was that only foreingers should work as waiters or in car washes.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Precisely. The most racist comment from the referendum debates were from the remain camp that we desperately need these immigrants because they are the only ones who will do the shyte jobs.
One particular comment on here was that only foreingers should work as waiters or in car washes.
I see Dean has retired from the debate. He obviously was unaware there were any working class people in Britain.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
0
Brexit trade deals on 10:33 - Aug 21 with 912 views
Precisely. The most racist comment from the referendum debates were from the remain camp that we desperately need these immigrants because they are the only ones who will do the shyte jobs.
One particular comment on here was that only foreingers should work as waiters or in car washes.
Can't remember. It's there in the big 100+ page thread if you can be arsed to read it.
Nah. I doubt they said what you said they did though. It was probably more like saying the immigrants are needed because they do the jobs that the indigenous people don't want to do. Not that we need them to save us Brits from having to do the sh*tty jobs.
Nah. I doubt they said what you said they did though. It was probably more like saying the immigrants are needed because they do the jobs that the indigenous people don't want to do. Not that we need them to save us Brits from having to do the sh*tty jobs.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
