| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:44 - Aug 24 with 689 views | Lohengrin |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:28 - Aug 24 by QuakerJack |
I find the apron offensive Trampie, it's no different to the swastika, the only difference being that history is written by the victors. |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:46 - Aug 24 with 684 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:39 - Aug 24 by Lohengrin |
* There are indeed English people who would agree with your interpretation, you see them on any given Saturday on Oxford Street with their red flags selling their red papers. I joined the army in the 80's at the height of the Cold War when republican bombs were going off in Ulster and on the mainland almost on a weekly basis. I joined up to do something about it, in my own small way, to do my bit. I had the courage of my convictions. Just to wring my hands and moan wasn't enough.
** My initial reaction in that thread was to state quite plainly that I had made that connection as to cause and effect in the mind of the killer. I'd revise that slightly now having subsequently seen the photos of Cox on Geldof's boat on the Thames abusing the Newlyn fishermen. We'll see what comes out in the courts, it could be a combination of the two. |
Commendable... I assume had you been Irish you'd have joined the IRA when you saw the unjust things that the British army did in Ireland?
I do not condone the killing of innocent people, what happened in places like Manchester, Birmingham etc was not right... If a soldier of an occupying force gets killed then it's extremely sad but that's what happens when you invade and occupy a country, they tend to fight back. |  |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:50 - Aug 24 with 675 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:36 - Aug 24 by perchrockjack |
Yep, good ol Celtic. This thread shows that bitterness and bigotry will endure forever as its past down generations.
Welsh patriots ? This would mean,as I suggested before, thst British civilians including Welsh ones and kids in a high street ARE and were legitimate targets because of British colonial killings of the past.
I'm pretty proud to be Welsh but please don't ever you or anyone suggest I support any of the IRA murders over the decades. Not just me but plenty of decent Welsh people who saw the killings on both divides as unjustified .celtic and the filth thst support them are a cancer in sport, as are Rangers ,hearts and hibs.
Time we moved on, especially the irish |
Illegitimate murders of the British aren't just the colonial past, they are recent... Iraq? You can't just draw a line where you feel it's appropriate... oh we've invaded all these countries, killed innocent people but we'll stop now, so leave it there... no more fighting, we've decided it should stop.
Many of these atrocities were post war... Iraq, Cyprus, Kenya... [Post edited 24 Aug 2016 9:51]
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:51 - Aug 24 with 672 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:44 - Aug 24 by Lohengrin |
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aye I see the difference... one saw genocide committed under its banner, the other saw genocide committed under its banner. | |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:58 - Aug 24 with 650 views | Lohengrin |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:46 - Aug 24 by QuakerJack |
Commendable... I assume had you been Irish you'd have joined the IRA when you saw the unjust things that the British army did in Ireland?
I do not condone the killing of innocent people, what happened in places like Manchester, Birmingham etc was not right... If a soldier of an occupying force gets killed then it's extremely sad but that's what happens when you invade and occupy a country, they tend to fight back. |
Had I been southern Irish I may well have joined an tArm, although I may still have joined a British Irish regiment, as many from the south still do following family tradition and bearing in mind a young man's desire to see active service. As for the IRA, no. My sense of morality wouldn't allow the donning of a balaclava and the killing of schoolchildren.
"what happened in places like Manchester, Birmingham etc was not right... " You don't say! | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:03 - Aug 24 with 641 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:58 - Aug 24 by Lohengrin |
Had I been southern Irish I may well have joined an tArm, although I may still have joined a British Irish regiment, as many from the south still do following family tradition and bearing in mind a young man's desire to see active service. As for the IRA, no. My sense of morality wouldn't allow the donning of a balaclava and the killing of schoolchildren.
"what happened in places like Manchester, Birmingham etc was not right... " You don't say! |
You don't condone killing children yet you joined the British military? Is there a punchline coming? | |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:03 - Aug 24 with 640 views | Lohengrin |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:51 - Aug 24 by QuakerJack |
aye I see the difference... one saw genocide committed under its banner, the other saw genocide committed under its banner. |
Here's a bit of homework for you given your family connections. Can you guess at the percentage decline in the Protestant population of County Cork between 1911 and 1922?
How does it fit within a working definition of what constitutes genocide? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:07 - Aug 24 with 632 views | Lohengrin |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:03 - Aug 24 by QuakerJack |
You don't condone killing children yet you joined the British military? Is there a punchline coming? |
I've seen the aftermath of an explosion where British Soldiers were present in the clear-up. I've seen for myself the remains of kids being shovelled into sacks. Take a wild guess at where this was and who set off the bomb. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:16 - Aug 24 with 617 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:03 - Aug 24 by Lohengrin |
Here's a bit of homework for you given your family connections. Can you guess at the percentage decline in the Protestant population of County Cork between 1911 and 1922?
How does it fit within a working definition of what constitutes genocide? |
put next to what the British did? | |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:18 - Aug 24 with 612 views | Lohengrin |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:16 - Aug 24 by QuakerJack |
put next to what the British did? |
Not prepared to answer? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:18 - Aug 24 with 609 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:07 - Aug 24 by Lohengrin |
I've seen the aftermath of an explosion where British Soldiers were present in the clear-up. I've seen for myself the remains of kids being shovelled into sacks. Take a wild guess at where this was and who set off the bomb. |
That's your experience... millions around the world have done the same thing as a result of the actions of the organisation you worked for and are proud of...
That was truly awful, murdering anyone is awful... but you only see it from one side, your own. | |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:21 - Aug 24 with 602 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:18 - Aug 24 by Lohengrin |
Not prepared to answer? |
haha, said the man who has not once condemned anything the British empire has done.
Any killing is deplorable... this was a terrible act... | |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:23 - Aug 24 with 594 views | QuakerJack |
Ok, your turn. In the 1950s the British brutally murdered, raped, mutilated and sodomized people on mass in Kenya. These were soldiers wearing the uniform you wore...
Do you condemn or condone those actions? | |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:27 - Aug 24 with 587 views | Lohengrin |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:18 - Aug 24 by QuakerJack |
That's your experience... millions around the world have done the same thing as a result of the actions of the organisation you worked for and are proud of...
That was truly awful, murdering anyone is awful... but you only see it from one side, your own. |
On sh!t money, continually stabbed in the back by politicians yet often the only thing that has preserved civilization from the surging of a dark malignancy, nowhere more so than in Ulster. Yes I am indeed tremedously proud of HM Forces. | |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:30 - Aug 24 with 581 views | Lohengrin |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:21 - Aug 24 by QuakerJack |
haha, said the man who has not once condemned anything the British empire has done.
Any killing is deplorable... this was a terrible act... |
I think it says rather a lot for the Empire that colonials in both world wars enlisted in their millions to fight for what it represented. Further, I'd venture to suggest the world is a far more fractious, dangerous place for its passing. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:30 - Aug 24 with 580 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:23 - Aug 24 by QuakerJack |
Ok, your turn. In the 1950s the British brutally murdered, raped, mutilated and sodomized people on mass in Kenya. These were soldiers wearing the uniform you wore...
Do you condemn or condone those actions? |
Are you proud of them here as well? | |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:31 - Aug 24 with 577 views | Kerouac |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:39 - Aug 24 by Lohengrin |
* There are indeed English people who would agree with your interpretation, you see them on any given Saturday on Oxford Street with their red flags selling their red papers. I joined the army in the 80's at the height of the Cold War when republican bombs were going off in Ulster and on the mainland almost on a weekly basis. I joined up to do something about it, in my own small way, to do my bit. I had the courage of my convictions. Just to wring my hands and moan wasn't enough.
** My initial reaction in that thread was to state quite plainly that I had made that connection as to cause and effect in the mind of the killer. I'd revise that slightly now having subsequently seen the photos of Cox on Geldof's boat on the Thames abusing the Newlyn fishermen. We'll see what comes out in the courts, it could be a combination of the two. |
" I joined up to do something about it, in my own small way, to do my bit. I had the courage of my convictions. Just to wring my hands and moan wasn't enough."
This is the best point made so far.
If you believe something is right or wrong (to the point of being intolerable) you will DO something about it if you have any bollocks.
If you don't have the bollocks and instead choose to reside within the society you relentlessly criticise...picking out the bits of history that suit your argument while ignoring both the context and the many other examples from history that do not support your argument in the slightest...like a cancer cell attempting to mutate and take the wider body down...
...then you should take what is coming to you on the chin.
So, using Quaker as an example...he is free of course to express his view but it will always be a minority one as it offends the majority and so he will continually be shouted down throughout his life here in the UK.
Some people in this situation become incredibly bitter and even (in rare cases) seek to use violent means (terrorism) to force the establishment to concede on certain issues.
Most though are content with lecturing in one of our educational establishments where such criticisms of the UK and the West are seen as the healthy questioning of the status quo that leads to analysis , reflection and a more efficient form of government.
The kids lap it up and the age range of 18-30 can be relied upon to hold radical views and support political actors who want radical change.
When they grow up though, and by grow up I mean obtain a stake in society...own a house, start a family, maybe own a business etc.
They realise that those lecturers in University/College who tried to persuade them to reject the values of the UK (& the West) and put the interests of various people from all around the World above the interests of us in the UK/West were doing so from an extremely privileged position afforded to them by our society...the society they were so bitter about.
This is when those citizens who have managed to grow up (some never do...see: Trampie) realise that those lecturers were cowards.
They were cowards as they didn't have the courage in their convictions to actually act on what they believed...and then the grown ups will marvel at the tolerance of our society that allows such freedom of thought and expression, that paid these incessant critics of the UK and the West handsomely too.
When the grown ups learn more about the world they live in and then begin to question why the same liberties we enjoy are not afforded to people who live in very different societies elsewhere in the world they begin to feel privileged themselves.
They subsequently learn to value what we have in the UK/West greatly, even take pride in their country/culture.
So you see Quaker, you are pissing in the wind... and what is more, you have no bollocks.
Expect ridicule.
One day you could be Jeremy Corbyn/Nicola Sturgeon/Leanne Wood and be ridiculed on a national scale.
Be grateful for this though as in some societies you would have been silenced and possibly; beaten, jailed, tortured, killed etc. |  |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:32 - Aug 24 with 575 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:30 - Aug 24 by Lohengrin |
I think it says rather a lot for the Empire that colonials in both world wars enlisted in their millions to fight for what it represented. Further, I'd venture to suggest the world is a far more fractious, dangerous place for its passing. |
I'd say it's fractious because it's gone, but only because it existed in the first place... bit like when you go into the middle east, overthrow governments then leave it in ruins. | |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:33 - Aug 24 with 570 views | Lohengrin |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:23 - Aug 24 by QuakerJack |
Ok, your turn. In the 1950s the British brutally murdered, raped, mutilated and sodomized people on mass in Kenya. These were soldiers wearing the uniform you wore...
Do you condemn or condone those actions? |
Why should it be down to me to have to condemn or condone tribal enmities in Africa? I'm sure neither of us have even the breeziest of familiarity with the ancient factors that drive it. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:34 - Aug 24 with 564 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:31 - Aug 24 by Kerouac |
" I joined up to do something about it, in my own small way, to do my bit. I had the courage of my convictions. Just to wring my hands and moan wasn't enough."
This is the best point made so far.
If you believe something is right or wrong (to the point of being intolerable) you will DO something about it if you have any bollocks.
If you don't have the bollocks and instead choose to reside within the society you relentlessly criticise...picking out the bits of history that suit your argument while ignoring both the context and the many other examples from history that do not support your argument in the slightest...like a cancer cell attempting to mutate and take the wider body down...
...then you should take what is coming to you on the chin.
So, using Quaker as an example...he is free of course to express his view but it will always be a minority one as it offends the majority and so he will continually be shouted down throughout his life here in the UK.
Some people in this situation become incredibly bitter and even (in rare cases) seek to use violent means (terrorism) to force the establishment to concede on certain issues.
Most though are content with lecturing in one of our educational establishments where such criticisms of the UK and the West are seen as the healthy questioning of the status quo that leads to analysis , reflection and a more efficient form of government.
The kids lap it up and the age range of 18-30 can be relied upon to hold radical views and support political actors who want radical change.
When they grow up though, and by grow up I mean obtain a stake in society...own a house, start a family, maybe own a business etc.
They realise that those lecturers in University/College who tried to persuade them to reject the values of the UK (& the West) and put the interests of various people from all around the World above the interests of us in the UK/West were doing so from an extremely privileged position afforded to them by our society...the society they were so bitter about.
This is when those citizens who have managed to grow up (some never do...see: Trampie) realise that those lecturers were cowards.
They were cowards as they didn't have the courage in their convictions to actually act on what they believed...and then the grown ups will marvel at the tolerance of our society that allows such freedom of thought and expression, that paid these incessant critics of the UK and the West handsomely too.
When the grown ups learn more about the world they live in and then begin to question why the same liberties we enjoy are not afforded to people who live in very different societies elsewhere in the world they begin to feel privileged themselves.
They subsequently learn to value what we have in the UK/West greatly, even take pride in their country/culture.
So you see Quaker, you are pissing in the wind... and what is more, you have no bollocks.
Expect ridicule.
One day you could be Jeremy Corbyn/Nicola Sturgeon/Leanne Wood and be ridiculed on a national scale.
Be grateful for this though as in some societies you would have been silenced and possibly; beaten, jailed, tortured, killed etc. |
I have a good job, I'm over 30, I have a house... I have my opinions, I won't kill in their name, I'm not capable of taking a life, whether I'm wearing a uniform or a hoodie. I am actively engaged in politics, but then you weren't to know that. [Post edited 24 Aug 2016 10:38]
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:37 - Aug 24 with 562 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:33 - Aug 24 by Lohengrin |
Why should it be down to me to have to condemn or condone tribal enmities in Africa? I'm sure neither of us have even the breeziest of familiarity with the ancient factors that drive it. |
for the same reason you asked me about Dunmanway etc... and then questioned why I didn't answer it... I'm asking do you think that British soldiers committing mass murder is right? You haven't said yet so I'm asking you again... | |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:40 - Aug 24 with 553 views | 1462jack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 09:21 - Aug 24 by QuakerJack |
My relatives left Ireland because they were suffering in poverty and starving. From a famine that was instigated and controlled by the British government. There are English people in this country who agree with my side of things... should they go live in Ireland? The fact that you state that you should support your country's position no matter what tells me that you cannot think for yourself, you'd support Hitler if you lived in 1930s/40s Germany. You support and would have supported mass genocide.
Oh and so Jo Cox deserved to die because of the actions of others within her party? |
My grandmother and my Aunties and uncles were living in Belfast during the 70s in a catholic area , my grand mother being catholic and the kids protestant were living in a catholic area , they were found out and were terrorised for weeks and one evening whilst out on the balcony of the flat they were living in my auntie was almost shot in the head , and the murdering bastards you quote ie the british army had to come rescue them take them into their custody and then shipped them out to Liverpool the next day . |  | | |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:40 - Aug 24 with 553 views | Lohengrin |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:37 - Aug 24 by QuakerJack |
for the same reason you asked me about Dunmanway etc... and then questioned why I didn't answer it... I'm asking do you think that British soldiers committing mass murder is right? You haven't said yet so I'm asking you again... |
Aside from the air war I'm unaware of any mass killings? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:40 - Aug 24 with 552 views | yescomeon |
Planet Swans Bingo
long historical debate - *check*
argument over union jack - *check*
IRA - *check*
local schizophrenic telling people to seek psychiatric help - *check*
aaaaaaand...
Brit Nats - *check*
HOUSE!! |  |
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| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:46 - Aug 24 with 537 views | QuakerJack |
| Another One to Enjoy - Celtic Fans and Palestine on 10:40 - Aug 24 by Lohengrin |
Aside from the air war I'm unaware of any mass killings? |
Oh I'm sorry... the ones where 10s of thousands were killed... William Hague paid out 20mil in compo to victims a few years back and there's a high court case going on now I believe, regarding the torture and mass murder of, give or take, 44,000 people in camps.
1952 it was... have a quick read online then come back to me, see what you think... | |
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