| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 09:31 - Sep 30 with 633 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 21:21 - Sep 29 by blueytheblue |
Well, yeah.
To be honest, a lot of those views are mostly held by Orthodox Jews - those "rules" were defined, shaped in an age where Jews were generally fighting to survive for the most part. Bit different today, which is why liberal Jews tend to loosen up a lot on things like that, so...
I'm an athiest anyway. It's all wacky to me. My son likes going to Cheder to learn Hebrew, likes learning about things and especially likes the food. Never had any real issues dropping him off there, quite a few of the fathers are also non-Jews.
To be honest, Jews have the best festival / ceremony ever in Purim. Celebrating defeating Haman who sought to wipe out Jews, minor fast followed by celebration.... as defined below...
" According to the Talmud, a person is required to drink until he cannot tell the difference between "cursed be Haman" and "blessed be Mordecai," though opinions differ as to exactly how drunk that is. A person certainly should not become so drunk that he might violate other commandments or get seriously ill. In addition, recovering alcoholics or others who might suffer serious harm from alcohol are exempt from this obligation."
How can you ever hate a race / religion who require you, once a year, to get rat arsed? [Post edited 29 Sep 2016 21:23]
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Where do I sign?! |  |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 11:07 - Sep 30 with 610 views | Catullus |
That doesn't disprove my post. May was for Remain, Murdoch was for leave. As Murdoch said when he went to Downing street he was listened to, when in Brussels he was ignored. It's not a surprise he'll be trying to get his talons into May.
And seeing as May was a a "silent remainer" who disappointed Cameron by not speaking out, she sott of falls into the career move sect.
As others say, you have to go to more than one source for your news. The Guardian usually p/$$ me right off with their blinkered, twisted views. They are every bit as bad as the Daily Mail. I read them both snd they are both ridiculous.
Bluey, I won't pretend to be an expert but I did some research on your reference. It was interesting to note that Amos Elon thinks that Jewish self loathing is/was a factor in the rise of anti semitism generally.
I wonder what Lessing would have made of Germany after his assassination, had he lived to see what Hitler turned Germany into. Just as interesting is his belief that it was Jewish intellectuals who were "self loathing Jews" and regarded Judaism "as the source of evil in the world"
For myself, I don't do any organised religion. I think they are all responsible for great evils, that's just me though!
As an aside, it never surprises me what people know. Lohengrin and Bluey are obviously well read and more intellectual than most people would think any football supporter is!
On the other hand, it often surprises me what people don't know...... |  |
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| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 12:13 - Sep 30 with 596 views | blueytheblue |
Me well read and intellectual?
Me thinks you've been celebrating Purim on the wrong date...
With regards to "intellectuals", I'm even wondering if it's a phenomenon that intellectuals as a generalisation are more prone to for want of a better word "self loathing" by overthinking, over rationalising events, particularly historical ones. | |
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| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 12:43 - Sep 30 with 585 views | snork44 |
| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 06:49 - Sep 30 by Dr_Winston |
I don't know how any decent, working class individual could support a Labour Party run by a c*nt like Corbyn. |
I'm no fan of Corbyn, but I'd rather a c*nt like Corbyn than the c*nts like Blair and Brown. At least Corbyn had principles, unlike the other two! |  |
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| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 13:11 - Sep 30 with 562 views | Professor |
Sadly the pro-Palestinian views of Corbyn's left spill into anti-semitism. I have visited Israel through work (I am not a union member and disagree with their academic boycott of the country). I did not much like the place and found the extreme views of both certain Jews and Arabs very unsettling. Equally I met some lovely people and I believe there is hope with younger people.
Bluey-your posts on this have been really illuminating. I know little of Jewish culture and tradition and understanding always helps. I despise hate in any form where it is founded against race, religion or sexuality. There are people I hate, because their actions deserve it regardless of colour or religion.
Perhaps some of Corbynistas need to read about the traditions and history of the left. How the 'Battle of Cable Street' transcended beyond the anti-semitism of 1930s London to stand against Moseley and the British Union of Fascists. Think about those of all religions who fought against Hitler.
On the theme of Orwell, I went to see 1984 in stage in London earlier in the week. Unsettling but powerful still. | | | |
| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 14:51 - Sep 30 with 540 views | blueytheblue |
Well, for me criticism of Israel can certainly be valid. Plenty I don't necessarily agree with... the point however is that it's trying to apply a western moral mindset in a completely different settings. The Israeli attitude can often be overly defensive and aggressive - you can't just view things in isolation, it has to be taken into regard we're not talking about persecution for 50, 100, 200 years but thousands. That will pretty much shape and define a collective psyche we in the west may not agree with but certainly don't always understand - and in some cases, don't want to stand.
The whole middle east is a mass of seething geopolitical microconflicts; trying to boil it down to "Jew vs Palestinian" or "Jew vs Arab" is a gross oversimplification. I've always suspected some ( looking at you, Saudi Arabia ) are more than happy for Israel to be a lightning rod in the region to deflect attention from their own abuses.
Other are happy to use proxies - for all the comments about Israeli actions in Lebanon, there were far fewer about the insidious way in which Iran and Syria in particular were abusing Lebanon by using it as a proxy to attack Israel. A Lebanese minister spoke out about Syria's activities in Lebanon and ended up being assassinated.
Regardless, can't see much happening soon but suspect quite a few nations will soften their view of Israel in return for aid fighting Isis. | |
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| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 14:54 - Sep 30 with 532 views | perchrockjack |
Hitler Stalin Lenin ,all men of principle .
Corbyn has principles, so has Diane maggot.
Issue is what are they. | |
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| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 15:07 - Sep 30 with 523 views | Professor |
| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 14:51 - Sep 30 by blueytheblue |
Well, for me criticism of Israel can certainly be valid. Plenty I don't necessarily agree with... the point however is that it's trying to apply a western moral mindset in a completely different settings. The Israeli attitude can often be overly defensive and aggressive - you can't just view things in isolation, it has to be taken into regard we're not talking about persecution for 50, 100, 200 years but thousands. That will pretty much shape and define a collective psyche we in the west may not agree with but certainly don't always understand - and in some cases, don't want to stand.
The whole middle east is a mass of seething geopolitical microconflicts; trying to boil it down to "Jew vs Palestinian" or "Jew vs Arab" is a gross oversimplification. I've always suspected some ( looking at you, Saudi Arabia ) are more than happy for Israel to be a lightning rod in the region to deflect attention from their own abuses.
Other are happy to use proxies - for all the comments about Israeli actions in Lebanon, there were far fewer about the insidious way in which Iran and Syria in particular were abusing Lebanon by using it as a proxy to attack Israel. A Lebanese minister spoke out about Syria's activities in Lebanon and ended up being assassinated.
Regardless, can't see much happening soon but suspect quite a few nations will soften their view of Israel in return for aid fighting Isis. |
For me the surprise is how close everything was. It is easy to forget Israel is a narrow strip of land. My host took me up to a monument on a hill to the IDF-you see how close the Palestinian left bank is to the new settlements and indeed Jerusalem are to each other. As you say the situation between the various branches of islam and states is very complex. To me the microcosm of the holy islamic and jewish sites being a stone or baton round apart with hundreds of years of conflict/persecution between both sums up the difficulty. Lebanon, as you say, ended up with a particularly bad deal as a relatively prosperous country with relative peace prior to 1967
Nevertheless there should be not room for racism of any sort here. | | | |
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| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 23:00 - Sep 30 with 489 views | Catullus |
| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 12:13 - Sep 30 by blueytheblue |
Me well read and intellectual?
Me thinks you've been celebrating Purim on the wrong date...
With regards to "intellectuals", I'm even wondering if it's a phenomenon that intellectuals as a generalisation are more prone to for want of a better word "self loathing" by overthinking, over rationalising events, particularly historical ones. |
Oh come on, how many have heard of Lessing let alone read his book? And in one post you caused me to look at something new and learn something too.
I can agree about the intellectuals by the way. It's nearly always these so called clever people who spout the most nonsense. Lessing also had a view about history, have you read "Geschichte als Sinngebung des Sinnlosen" or "History as giving meaning to the meaningless" obviously I haven't, I just came across it whilst researching your reference.
Maybe history is meaningless, after all what have we learned from centuries of war, hatred, bigotry and greed? | |
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| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 09:47 - Oct 1 with 459 views | Lohengrin |
| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 23:00 - Sep 30 by Catullus |
Oh come on, how many have heard of Lessing let alone read his book? And in one post you caused me to look at something new and learn something too.
I can agree about the intellectuals by the way. It's nearly always these so called clever people who spout the most nonsense. Lessing also had a view about history, have you read "Geschichte als Sinngebung des Sinnlosen" or "History as giving meaning to the meaningless" obviously I haven't, I just came across it whilst researching your reference.
Maybe history is meaningless, after all what have we learned from centuries of war, hatred, bigotry and greed? |
Try Popper's Poverty of Historicism. It covers much the same ground and is far more accessible and easily available in English translation. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 10:30 - Oct 1 with 444 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 09:47 - Oct 1 by Lohengrin |
Try Popper's Poverty of Historicism. It covers much the same ground and is far more accessible and easily available in English translation. |
Nice recommend sir. Added to (ever expanding) to read list! | |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 22:32 - Oct 1 with 413 views | Catullus |
| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 09:47 - Oct 1 by Lohengrin |
Try Popper's Poverty of Historicism. It covers much the same ground and is far more accessible and easily available in English translation. |
If it's available on e reader I'll give it a try. Thanks Loh. | |
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| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 13:23 - Oct 2 with 388 views | Highjack |
| Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party on 12:43 - Sep 30 by snork44 |
I'm no fan of Corbyn, but I'd rather a c*nt like Corbyn than the c*nts like Blair and Brown. At least Corbyn had principles, unlike the other two! |
I think you are doing Blair a massive disservice there. He had many strong principles that he was desperately and determinedly committed to for his entire political career and beyond. The principle that he should increase his personal wealth for example, and the principle that US foreign policy trumps UK foreign policy. Also the principle that listening to the imaginary voice of God in his head telling him to lead many of our soldiers to their deaths as part of some sort of holy war was the right thing to do.
He was an incredibly principled PM. |  |
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