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Lets get an idea from us fans in general as to the last 6 months or so. A 6 months that's seen us bought out by the Americans in a deal where the old owners sold their souls and us down the river.
We all know they did their best to keep the Trust away from discussions and tried wilfully to get the Trust to sign a legal document stating the old regime's Shareholders Agreement practically meant nothing.
Since then the Trust have parted company with their Supporters Director and Vice Chairman and have been threatening legal action throughout the whole time, also stating on many an occasion that "this can't go on much longer"
As we are now aware from recent statements the Trust feel they are "building bridges" and getting somewhere with the new regime. Do we think this is the right course of action and to trust the new American owners and the remaining old Directors, bearing in mind all that's gone on?
What do the fans think?
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action
[Post edited 21 Feb 2017 14:58]
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
I will also add you're not offering anything constructive to a really healthy discussion on the future of the Trust. I know you like to pop some ego's as you've told me, but this isn't the thread to do that.
Umpteen posters have explained in fine detail the importance of the issues surrounding this case, you're deliberately choosing to ignore them, i'm guessing because you're bored and want to cause mischief?
Do me a favour, if I can be so bold to ask you of one, don't do it on this thread or ones relative to this.
I would respect you for not as I'm sure many others would too.
Cheers.
[Post edited 27 Feb 2017 13:20]
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 13:00 - Feb 27 by Lord_Bony
The members are fans...but anyways...what you reckon will be the outcome of all this Monny?
Seriously....f**k knows, but personally I'd like to see something more decisive than just a drift back into cosy toothless (and rather supine) coalition, with the Trust playing the Lib-Dems, which I think would be all too easy to happen.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 13:15 - Feb 27 by Shaky
I'm afraid I don't see how that would be possible.
But as I said, to me at least the case looks very strong, involving 3 different arguments as to why the Trust has been wronged in law. What the Americans might refer to as a triple lock!
And on the question of legal fees, as I said this is potentially a very important landmark case involving UK and European company law, with a reasonable chance of winning judgement on a clean sweep of the arguments.
As I see it high profile barristers should be falling over themselves to take this on for free, if you can sell it properly.
[Post edited 27 Feb 2017 13:17]
If it is clear cut and some good barristers would take it on for free or a nominal fee,then that's definatley an option for the Trust to look into surely...
The cost of court fees, that is the amount payable to the court, would be about 10k in a case like this I believe.
This post has been edited by an administrator
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"Per ardua ad astra"
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 13:20 - Feb 27 by monmouth
Seriously....f**k knows, but personally I'd like to see something more decisive than just a drift back into cosy toothless (and rather supine) coalition, with the Trust playing the Lib-Dems, which I think would be all too easy to happen.
It's hard to know what to do as passionate fans looking on. I want to believe in the Trust so much and if we still had the likes of Richard Lillicrap on board I'd be backing it to the hilt.
I've lost all sorts of faith with the present lot and the Trust just seems to continually drift from apathy to crisis and back again.
There's no drive, no determination, no dynamism and as a result we are left with toothless leaders who will continue until they decide to do otherwise.
In July we had them on here saying this can't and won't go on much longer - 7/8 months later we drift on, and on, and on....
I don't know how many legal people they have employed, I know there's been a few. But unfortunately we also know we're no closer to any sort of decision or urgency than we have ever been.
It seems more gets done on this message board than will ever in the Trust Boardroom and that is a crying shame.
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 13:28 - Feb 27 by TheResurrection
It's hard to know what to do as passionate fans looking on. I want to believe in the Trust so much and if we still had the likes of Richard Lillicrap on board I'd be backing it to the hilt.
I've lost all sorts of faith with the present lot and the Trust just seems to continually drift from apathy to crisis and back again.
There's no drive, no determination, no dynamism and as a result we are left with toothless leaders who will continue until they decide to do otherwise.
In July we had them on here saying this can't and won't go on much longer - 7/8 months later we drift on, and on, and on....
I don't know how many legal people they have employed, I know there's been a few. But unfortunately we also know we're no closer to any sort of decision or urgency than we have ever been.
It seems more gets done on this message board than will ever in the Trust Boardroom and that is a crying shame.
I believe there are some decent guys in there with the good of the club at their core, but a wartime leader is not the same as a peacetime leader. I'd hope they are at least on a war footing.
The points Shaky is raising and any others floating about have to be addressed at some point though, explicitly and publicly.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 13:43 - Feb 27 by monmouth
I believe there are some decent guys in there with the good of the club at their core, but a wartime leader is not the same as a peacetime leader. I'd hope they are at least on a war footing.
The points Shaky is raising and any others floating about have to be addressed at some point though, explicitly and publicly.
Yes good guys, nice fellas, I agree... but is that we need?
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 20:28 - Feb 26 by Shaky
I understand your impatience, but knowing a bit about how lawyers work they will want to look at the cases I have cited and then probably spend a day or two thinking about things before coming to a conclusion whether my proposed legal strategy is worth pursuing.
Their job is to find holes and weaknesses, and up to a certain point the longer it takes for a response the better news it is.
Alternatively there is a possibility that I realise you will find remote, that a QC, expert in this area, will already know of many dozens of relevant cases and will have considered them when forming his opinion and is unlikely to be caught out by someone who is neither a lawyer, nor an expert in unfair prejudice cases in U.K. private companies.
We all, myself included, suggest angles to explore, and questions to ask of the experts, but most don't assume that we know more than people then consulted?
I think it's right to ask the questions, in case something has been missed, as we all know that the way you frame a question may be crucial to the advice you receive but if the question has already been asked and answered, I think the Trust then needs to follow the advice they have been given, irritating though that advice may be to the rest of us.
In this case, I don't think we know whether questions along the lines you have proposed (or I have proposed, or anyone else for that matter) have been asked and answered, but if they have, I don't think any of us are likely to find cases that a QC will not be aware of.
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Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 14:07 - Feb 27 with 665 views
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 13:28 - Feb 27 by TheResurrection
It's hard to know what to do as passionate fans looking on. I want to believe in the Trust so much and if we still had the likes of Richard Lillicrap on board I'd be backing it to the hilt.
I've lost all sorts of faith with the present lot and the Trust just seems to continually drift from apathy to crisis and back again.
There's no drive, no determination, no dynamism and as a result we are left with toothless leaders who will continue until they decide to do otherwise.
In July we had them on here saying this can't and won't go on much longer - 7/8 months later we drift on, and on, and on....
I don't know how many legal people they have employed, I know there's been a few. But unfortunately we also know we're no closer to any sort of decision or urgency than we have ever been.
It seems more gets done on this message board than will ever in the Trust Boardroom and that is a crying shame.
One of the major issues is that the communication about what has or hasn't been done is sparse and incomplete.
We've been told that legal advice has been taken - the issue I guess is that none of us know exactly what questions were asked and answered. As I've said to Shaky, it's possible that his questions, and mine, have already been assessed - we just don't know.
The difficulty that the Trust have, I imagine, is that giving detailed statements on plans of legal attack may, in their minds, hinder any actions they may wish to take. As Shaky pointed out, there is no legal reason for not giving away information as such, but it is generally a silly thing to do, to tell your possible opponents, in a public way, what your attack will be.
There is a wider issue though, which is that we've been told that we'll vote on whether to go ahead with legal action if the Trust decide that is the best course of action, but we haven't been given any say in the current position of establishing a better relationship. I'm not sure I would vote to establish a better relationship with the new owners for example (although the majority might, who knows). I don't see any reason to trust them with a barge pole to be frank.
[Post edited 27 Feb 2017 14:20]
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Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 14:19 - Feb 27 with 1296 views
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 14:07 - Feb 27 by Lord_Bony
The next step.
1. Find some good legal representation willing to do it for free or low cost,possibly on a no win no fee basis....plenty would do the latter.
2. Pay the 10k court fees to bring the matter to court.
Simple.
I don't think many QCs work on a no win no fee basis!! I can't see any reason why the Trust don't use its money on exploring it properly (they may be doing so). After all, there's little else can be done with the money in the bank. I'd rather the Trust hired the best available (and acknowledged they are expensive), rather than do it on the cheap.
0
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 14:20 - Feb 27 with 1294 views
I'm reading your and other comments with some concern.
I have asked questions
It's my right
We are relying on others to provide stewardship of our club and I'm not sure as to whom would be better to own our club.
You have to understand my point too
Whether I or others bring constructive argument into a thread is subjective. Name calling certainly isn't constructive and most of us ,including you, have done it
I m looking for the owners to take us to the next level. I'm awaiting any signs of that
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 14:05 - Feb 27 by londonlisa2001
Alternatively there is a possibility that I realise you will find remote, that a QC, expert in this area, will already know of many dozens of relevant cases and will have considered them when forming his opinion and is unlikely to be caught out by someone who is neither a lawyer, nor an expert in unfair prejudice cases in U.K. private companies.
We all, myself included, suggest angles to explore, and questions to ask of the experts, but most don't assume that we know more than people then consulted?
I think it's right to ask the questions, in case something has been missed, as we all know that the way you frame a question may be crucial to the advice you receive but if the question has already been asked and answered, I think the Trust then needs to follow the advice they have been given, irritating though that advice may be to the rest of us.
In this case, I don't think we know whether questions along the lines you have proposed (or I have proposed, or anyone else for that matter) have been asked and answered, but if they have, I don't think any of us are likely to find cases that a QC will not be aware of.
Well thanks very much for your attempted hatchet job there, Lisa, I know how difficult it must be for you not to be the center of attention.
Of course we shall see what happens, but whereas I agree it is unlikely that a QC will have been unaware of any of the cases I mentioned, it is far more probable that the background given did not provide adequate details of the relationships between the shareholders in the club, and as a consequence will not have been considered.
Believe it or not I have many, many times found legal angles and arguments expensive lawyers under my supervision have missed because I am at heart a bloody good analyst, with an eye for the law.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 14:19 - Feb 27 by londonlisa2001
I don't think many QCs work on a no win no fee basis!! I can't see any reason why the Trust don't use its money on exploring it properly (they may be doing so). After all, there's little else can be done with the money in the bank. I'd rather the Trust hired the best available (and acknowledged they are expensive), rather than do it on the cheap.
Well there in lies the rub.
To hire top QCs is going to be very expensive and it will drag on a fair bit. This can sometimes put a case off from going to court.
In my opinion this is a clear cut case...it's not complex...so a good competent lawyer along with knowledgeable members of the trust should be sufficient.
It's just a simple matter of explaining the facts for the judge to decide. It does not need to cost a lot.
My fear is QCs dragging this thing back and fore and eventually human nature being what it is the Trust will say...you know what lets just let it go,let's forgive,forget and move on...let's all be friends again...until next time we get screwed over........I hope I'm wrong and I know there are good people there doing their best...but they are human like the rest of us.
My only advice is don't over complicate this,keep it simple and be decisive.
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 14:01 - Feb 27 by TheResurrection
Yes good guys, nice fellas, I agree... but is that we need?
I don't know them well enough to say, but I am extremely sceptical that peacetime and wartime leadership is interchangeable, and we are at war until we have a (legal) terms of peace that we can accept. So it is war possibly for the long term,maybe forever after. I hope the 'bridges' don't obscure that fact.
We simply cannot afford another poodle having its tummy tickled. Again that's not an accusation, I simply don't know the people. It will no doubt become apparent in due course, for me, the earlier the better.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 14:20 - Feb 27 by perchrockjack
Chris.
Ive made my point, which is my right.
I'm reading your and other comments with some concern.
I have asked questions
It's my right
We are relying on others to provide stewardship of our club and I'm not sure as to whom would be better to own our club.
You have to understand my point too
Whether I or others bring constructive argument into a thread is subjective. Name calling certainly isn't constructive and most of us ,including you, have done it
I m looking for the owners to take us to the next level. I'm awaiting any signs of that
THAT is what should concern us
I've spoken to others
So may I ask your own question again ...respectfully .
What is the point of the Trust? where do they fit into this? Should we just forgive and forget and move on now?
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 14:21 - Feb 27 by Shaky
Well thanks very much for your attempted hatchet job there, Lisa, I know how difficult it must be for you not to be the center of attention.
Of course we shall see what happens, but whereas I agree it is unlikely that a QC will have been unaware of any of the cases I mentioned, it is far more probable that the background given did not provide adequate details of the relationships between the shareholders in the club, and as a consequence will not have been considered.
Believe it or not I have many, many times found legal angles and arguments expensive lawyers under my supervision have missed because I am at heart a bloody good analyst, with an eye for the law.
We shall see.
Shaky - difficult though it may be for you to grasp, I don't give a flying toss where an idea comes from that could prove successful. To me, the only thing that matters, is the best possible outcome for the club, the fans and the Trust (in that order).
I have little doubt that any solution that may or may not be found in the future, will be almost exclusively due to you whatever happens.
1
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 15:37 - Feb 27 with 1151 views
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 14:19 - Feb 27 by londonlisa2001
I don't think many QCs work on a no win no fee basis!! I can't see any reason why the Trust don't use its money on exploring it properly (they may be doing so). After all, there's little else can be done with the money in the bank. I'd rather the Trust hired the best available (and acknowledged they are expensive), rather than do it on the cheap.
Yeah, if anyone can recommend a QC who's prepared to work for free then let us know!
As mentioned in the latest Trust board minutes, that's exactly what the Trust is doing in terms of getting the best guidance available.
It's been a very interesting discussion on here, with lots of good points. A lot of which are very logical. However, in my view anyway, whether the legal path is truly open will depend on the guidance we receive from that top QC. I'm far from an expert on the law but one thing I've learned is that what seems obvious isn't necessarily the case, and if it was so clear cut we wouldn't need a second opinion. Just my opinion anyway.
Anyway, as I think Mon said, ultimately if any legal action is to be taken, it would have to be taken and voted by the members, and such a decision could only be taken with that guidance being made available to the members. However, as you also said, what detail that could be put out there without weakening the case would be the tricky bit.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 15:37 - Feb 27 by Uxbridge
Yeah, if anyone can recommend a QC who's prepared to work for free then let us know!
As mentioned in the latest Trust board minutes, that's exactly what the Trust is doing in terms of getting the best guidance available.
It's been a very interesting discussion on here, with lots of good points. A lot of which are very logical. However, in my view anyway, whether the legal path is truly open will depend on the guidance we receive from that top QC. I'm far from an expert on the law but one thing I've learned is that what seems obvious isn't necessarily the case, and if it was so clear cut we wouldn't need a second opinion. Just my opinion anyway.
Anyway, as I think Mon said, ultimately if any legal action is to be taken, it would have to be taken and voted by the members, and such a decision could only be taken with that guidance being made available to the members. However, as you also said, what detail that could be put out there without weakening the case would be the tricky bit.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 15:37 - Feb 27 by Uxbridge
Yeah, if anyone can recommend a QC who's prepared to work for free then let us know!
As mentioned in the latest Trust board minutes, that's exactly what the Trust is doing in terms of getting the best guidance available.
It's been a very interesting discussion on here, with lots of good points. A lot of which are very logical. However, in my view anyway, whether the legal path is truly open will depend on the guidance we receive from that top QC. I'm far from an expert on the law but one thing I've learned is that what seems obvious isn't necessarily the case, and if it was so clear cut we wouldn't need a second opinion. Just my opinion anyway.
Anyway, as I think Mon said, ultimately if any legal action is to be taken, it would have to be taken and voted by the members, and such a decision could only be taken with that guidance being made available to the members. However, as you also said, what detail that could be put out there without weakening the case would be the tricky bit.
How long does this bloody QC need to make a coding opinion?
He's had the case over 2 months, surely you've had some sort of nod from him/her?
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
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