| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? 13:56 - Apr 10 with 5554 views | TheResurrection |
Hear me out as I can hear the collective groans from the Planet Swans Match of the Day type pundits now....
People are beginning to stress we need more attacking intent but people automatically assume that can only come from Siggy going in to number 10 - a position that when he's played there this season we've been abysmal as a team....(yeah, yeah I know it's not Siggy's fault it's everyone else under the sun)
So what else can a team struggling for their lives try? As much as I feel we can't completely take the shackles off, we need to find a solution similar to the formation change that Clement brought in soon after he started.
Then, he found a way of getting Siggy and Fer on the pitch together without compromising our defensive duties too much.
It worked well for us and gave us a real stab at survival but it's starting to look stale now.
With Cork out I'd like to see someone who will give the fans a real boost come back, someone who's been there through it all and we know will be up for the fight. Leon Britton. We'll lose Cork's presence and height in the midfield but we'll gain Leon's tenacity and quick feet. I think he'll work well with Carroll and will hold our defensive shape well.
Onto Siggy... Arguably the main reason the 451 is looking stale is because Siggy is too predictable out on the left hand side of midfield. He can't go past a man as has no pace so his attributes to the game plan is to pick up loose balls, drift inside and get a sight on goal, both to create or score. He's also importantly defensively as he's a hard worker and covers well, when he hasn't gone wandering too much.
I don't think we can drop Fer, without Cork we'd have no beef in the middle and he is one of a very small few that can pass a man and take us further up the pitch. Maybe Fer could look to join attacks more and get himself in the mix a bit more often, but we need him in my opinion.
We'd lose Siggy's free kicks which would be the real risk in all this but Carroll or Fer, I'm sure could offer something in this department?
So who out wide in midfield?
Routledge and Siggy have been the main choices out there under Clement but looking at the stats for West Ham, a game where we had more percentage of the ball for once and when West Ham sat back for the most of the second half, both Siggy and Routs attempted just the one take on each and both failed with that.
Compare that to Ayew's 7 successful take on's from 10 tried and it's clear to see we need more from out wide, a lot more.
Because of this I'd pick Ayew instead of Siggy and hope he can offer something a bit different. Not just cutting inside but going on the outside as well, taking on opponents, getting crosses in and hopefully giving us a new dimension from that position.
The downside of this is Ayew tracking back which I'd be worried about. Is this a risk worth taking to try and be a little more expansive against a Watford team pretty much on the beach?
The other one is more tricky. It balls down to a choice of Routs, Montero or Narsingh. If we went with Ayew on the left maybe we could compensate with Routs on the right as we know he'll work hard and track back. Narsingh would be the other real contender for me to start there and would be ready to come on to change it up.
I know Llorente is back but we're looking very boring and predictable even when he's played, Hull first half, Bournemouth away and second half Saturday.
There's an argument to say the bigger risk is to not change something as it's not working.
------------------- Fab -------------
Naughts - Fed - Maws - Olsson
Routs - Fer - Leon - Carroll - Ayew
--------------- Llorente ------------
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 17:13 - Apr 10 with 1215 views | dobjack2 |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 16:19 - Apr 10 by TheResurrection |
I think the total opposite.
Without Siggy and Llorente and instead Joe Allen and Bony and the winger we were supposed to get... Chadli, Valencia or a genuine replacement of another name in that position we'd be nowhere near relegation.
We're so slow and predictable with those two it's unreal. |
I agree that with the players we should have got we would have been less likely to have been in the mess we are in now.
However there is little point in dropping gylfi. Playing him in a role he is better suited to though gets a yes from me. We are one paced And one dimensional. FFS we bang the ball into the centre for llorente to head even when he is sitting in the stands. |  | | |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 17:19 - Apr 10 with 1209 views | jasper_T |
Drop him into midfield in place of Fer and have him try to put crosses in from that side like Carroll has done on the left.
Routledge left wing, Narsingh right, try to have a running threat coming from both sides. | | | |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 17:53 - Apr 10 with 1188 views | TheResurrection |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 16:31 - Apr 10 by vetchonian |
Are you serious? Bony who is at Stoke with Allen ? How many goals has he got this season? Talk about rose coloured spectacles.
Yes maybe the Bony of 2-3 seasons ago .....its all very well talking about what could have been but you have to p!$$ with the c**k you have ....Siggy and Llorente have been that for us and without them to date we would have even less goals and points than we have now |
Deadly serious. I'd take Bony any day of the week over Llorente. There was nothing past it about him when we sold him to Man City and the same when he put us to the sword earlier in the season. Bony links up his midfield superbly plus can take a ball to feet on the edge of the box and make things happen. Llorente doesn't come close to those things.
With Allen zipping around in midfield and a winger or two we'd have still had millions over from the sale of Ayew and Williams. Llorente could have still come in for the Plan B.
It's futile to keep harping on about Siggy and Llorente as it's these 2 that have caused us the most issues this season, and if they weren't here there'd be a totally different dynamic to the team and one that would have fared a lot better than what we've seen so far I'd say.
We couldn't have done a lot worse could we. | |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 17:59 - Apr 10 with 1180 views | TheResurrection |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 17:19 - Apr 10 by jasper_T |
Drop him into midfield in place of Fer and have him try to put crosses in from that side like Carroll has done on the left.
Routledge left wing, Narsingh right, try to have a running threat coming from both sides. |
He's too lightweight in there, he'd be knocked off the ball and we'd be even more static than we are now.
Also, please, can anyone advocating Siggy to play at number 10 give me an example of a game this season when he's been there that we've looked even half OK?
Anyone?? | |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 18:15 - Apr 10 with 1162 views | monmouth |
I'm certain Clement won't drop him, and it would take balls of steel, but I would nod at the screen at any attempt to quicken things up in the midfield and increase the snap of our passing and speed of our movement. So I wouldn't exactly be traumatised. |  |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 18:17 - Apr 10 with 1161 views | dobjack2 |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 17:53 - Apr 10 by TheResurrection |
Deadly serious. I'd take Bony any day of the week over Llorente. There was nothing past it about him when we sold him to Man City and the same when he put us to the sword earlier in the season. Bony links up his midfield superbly plus can take a ball to feet on the edge of the box and make things happen. Llorente doesn't come close to those things.
With Allen zipping around in midfield and a winger or two we'd have still had millions over from the sale of Ayew and Williams. Llorente could have still come in for the Plan B.
It's futile to keep harping on about Siggy and Llorente as it's these 2 that have caused us the most issues this season, and if they weren't here there'd be a totally different dynamic to the team and one that would have fared a lot better than what we've seen so far I'd say.
We couldn't have done a lot worse could we. |
It's futile to go harping on about players we didn't sign - if we had signed a decent winger and joe that could have made the difference for gylfi and llorente. Nobody knows or will know.
We've got the team we've got and not the team we'd like and that is why we are in the sh!te. Our team is slow, lacks creativity and we seem reduced to pumping the ball into the box for llorente (plan A) and hoping to score from set pieces (plan B)
So I doubt that we will drop our dead ball player who can also shoot from outside the area. | | | |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 18:50 - Apr 10 with 1138 views | longlostjack |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 15:41 - Apr 10 by perchrockjack |
HMM
I was thinking with us having a tall chap we could actually have our wide men practise crossing the ball for him.
At the moment we look lost between two stools.
I d say its shite or bust time.
iF WE RE TO GO DOWN, LETS GO DOWN WITH SOME FIRE IN THE GUTS |
Ayew and Baston would be an interesting alternative to Llorente. Baston a complete mystery though and no doubt we'd still be floating crosses in to a non-existent target man. Lot of focus on getting the best out of Siggy but Carroll needs to step up. |  |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 18:55 - Apr 10 with 1133 views | TheResurrection |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 18:15 - Apr 10 by monmouth |
I'm certain Clement won't drop him, and it would take balls of steel, but I would nod at the screen at any attempt to quicken things up in the midfield and increase the snap of our passing and speed of our movement. So I wouldn't exactly be traumatised. |
I agree with you I don't think he'll do it but it could be our Claudio Ranieri moment.
But wouldn't it be refreshing to make that pitch as wide as possible again with wide-men that can go on the outside as well as the inside? | |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 19:16 - Apr 10 with 1109 views | WxmJax |
Should read shall we be stupid and drop Siggy. Get Olsson and Carroll down the left in tandem with Gylfi like they were against Liverpool and Leicester and get Fer and Llorente attacking the crosses. |  |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? (n/t) on 19:22 - Apr 10 with 1094 views | TheResurrection |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 18:15 - Apr 10 by monmouth |
I'm certain Clement won't drop him, and it would take balls of steel, but I would nod at the screen at any attempt to quicken things up in the midfield and increase the snap of our passing and speed of our movement. So I wouldn't exactly be traumatised. |
[Post edited 10 Apr 2017 19:23]
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 21:56 - Apr 10 with 1014 views | SPboy |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 18:55 - Apr 10 by TheResurrection |
I agree with you I don't think he'll do it but it could be our Claudio Ranieri moment.
But wouldn't it be refreshing to make that pitch as wide as possible again with wide-men that can go on the outside as well as the inside? |
You talking about our wingers? Yes the ones who can't beat a man on the outside and can't cross either ? |  | | |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 22:16 - Apr 10 with 993 views | TheResurrection |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 21:56 - Apr 10 by SPboy |
You talking about our wingers? Yes the ones who can't beat a man on the outside and can't cross either ? |
We only play with one and when Siggy plays we are very narrow from an attacking perspective.
He cuts inside and condenses the space for the other winger. If we had genuine width and sprayed the ball around quicker the chances are we'd turn defences around a lot more, get in behind them and make things happen.
I'm not 100% but on a bit of evidence seen so far I think Ayew could do that job on the one wing. If it was Routs on the other to hold shape a bit better I know he'd benefit from the extra space of a natural winger on the other side.
For us to play with 2 wide men I think it would come down to a choice between Siggy, Fer or Carroll.
In my opinion we need Carroll in there as he'd be the one to pass the ball quickly and set the tempo.
I'd also choose Fer for his size, power and his ability to drive us higher up the pitch - he can actually go past a man.
So give Siggy and his stomping around a well earned break and see if we look more of a team for once. | |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 22:32 - Apr 10 with 975 views | costalotta |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 22:16 - Apr 10 by TheResurrection |
We only play with one and when Siggy plays we are very narrow from an attacking perspective.
He cuts inside and condenses the space for the other winger. If we had genuine width and sprayed the ball around quicker the chances are we'd turn defences around a lot more, get in behind them and make things happen.
I'm not 100% but on a bit of evidence seen so far I think Ayew could do that job on the one wing. If it was Routs on the other to hold shape a bit better I know he'd benefit from the extra space of a natural winger on the other side.
For us to play with 2 wide men I think it would come down to a choice between Siggy, Fer or Carroll.
In my opinion we need Carroll in there as he'd be the one to pass the ball quickly and set the tempo.
I'd also choose Fer for his size, power and his ability to drive us higher up the pitch - he can actually go past a man.
So give Siggy and his stomping around a well earned break and see if we look more of a team for once. |
Fair play that's a strong case you put forward and one I think at this moment I'd agree with. We've certainly got nothing to loose and could alsways revert if needed to. We need to do something and whilst might loose our set piece threat we carry others. Ayew can go past players out wide. He set up our goal against spurs and has showed similar ability albeit fleetingly. But that was as the man guy in the centre.
I'm in. |  | | |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 23:06 - Apr 10 with 954 views | Legend83 |
Remember last season when Siggy pretty much singlehandedly kept us up with his goals in the last quarter of the season?
Yeah, we need that to happen.
Which it won't if he's on the bench. | | | |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 23:10 - Apr 10 with 948 views | Kilkennyjack |
We need changes at home.
Start Leon and make him captain.
Put Siggy as a 10.
Play 2 proper wingers.
Dont play Fer right back.
Thanks Clemo. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 09:26 - Apr 11 with 859 views | perchrockjack |
I'm with Killy .
Back to basics
Win ball, keep ,ball. If lose it get it back quick
When in front of goal ,shoot .
Play for the whole game | |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:08 - Apr 11 with 833 views | towns |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 14:42 - Apr 10 by jack247 |
He will just replace Cork. Hopefully with Britton or Fulton, but neither have had a look in, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Ki.
We are going to be fairly cagey and unless we can get the link up between Siggy, Olsson and Carroll going again, the best chance I can see is a set piece. Sadly. |
dont know why he is still thinking bringing KI on is doing us anything .I cant remember the last time he was playing and we didn't lose.he runs away from the tackle and gives nothing.he used to be good on the ball but now I wouldn't put him in the reserves. | | | |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 13:20 - Apr 11 with 797 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 09:26 - Apr 11 by perchrockjack |
I'm with Killy .
Back to basics
Win ball, keep ,ball. If lose it get it back quick
When in front of goal ,shoot .
Play for the whole game |
You should do this for a living. There's not enough cliches in the world. Thanks for redressing the balance with some good old 1950's coaching and motivational tactics. Tell them they're allowed a fag at half time with their cups of tea why don't you.
Leon play again? More chance of Baston getting a hundred appearances for us. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 14:12 - Apr 11 with 775 views | Jack_Kass |
I guess it depends on what you value more
You want wingers to have chalk on their boots, and use the fill width of the field, which is nice, but that means we sacrifice our ability and speed in which we can become compact, and away from home, even against Watford, it's a long day without being defensively sound as we can be. | |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 18:35 - Apr 11 with 713 views | PapaLazarou |
Fabianski
Naughton
Mawson
Fernandez
Olsson
Britton
Carroll
Narsingh
Sigurdsson
Routledge
Llorente
As has been mentioned, let's get back to basics. Bring some width in. Britton and Carroll will get things moving quickly in the centre. Fer is a great option to bring off the bench if we need a bit more muscle. |  | | |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 21:42 - Apr 11 with 671 views | TheResurrection |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 14:12 - Apr 11 by Jack_Kass |
I guess it depends on what you value more
You want wingers to have chalk on their boots, and use the fill width of the field, which is nice, but that means we sacrifice our ability and speed in which we can become compact, and away from home, even against Watford, it's a long day without being defensively sound as we can be. |
Who's this to?
You're wrong by the way, | |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 22:24 - Apr 11 with 644 views | Jack_Kass |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 21:42 - Apr 11 by TheResurrection |
Who's this to?
You're wrong by the way, |
Nope. Quite surprised you don't understand that really, it's on most football manager games.
You can't maintain full height, width, and depth (making the available attacking space as large as possible) and be compact (compressing defensive space to the minimum) at the same time. They are two contrasting opposites and principles of the game, that's just common sense. You can't maintain attacking width with a compact shape, and you can't be compact in defense while you have width. There is a time peiod (transition) to go from one to the other.
So if we've got 'proper' wingers that hug the sidelines , this inhibits the time it takes us to get back into a tight defensive shape, which is fine if we're expecting to be dominant in possession, and have the ball for long periods of time, and are able to keep the ball and build our attacking play, like we would have done in years gone by, but those days are long gone and that's just not us anymore.
Isn't learning fun? | |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 22:32 - Apr 11 with 634 views | Pokerface |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 21:42 - Apr 11 by TheResurrection |
Who's this to?
You're wrong by the way, |
You are probably the most boring poster ever on PS. Ever.
Give it a rest. You are saying the same thing a 100 times on numerous threads. WE GET IT.
No need to repeat. Cheers.
I am personally glad Siggy and Llotente are part of our team as they are a ray of sunshine in a shitstorm that is our squad. | |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 22:38 - Apr 11 with 627 views | Kerouac |
How about...
------------------- Fab -------------
Naughts - Fed - Maws - Olsson
---------- Siggy --- Leon ---------
Narsingh ----- Fer ------ Carroll
--------------- Llorente ------------
or
------------------- Fab -------------
Naughts - Fed - Maws - Olsson
---------------- Leon ---------------
--------- Fer -------- Siggy --------
Narsingh ----------------- Carroll
--------------- Llorente ------------ |  |
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| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 22:55 - Apr 11 with 600 views | jack2jack |
| Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 22:38 - Apr 11 by Kerouac |
How about...
------------------- Fab -------------
Naughts - Fed - Maws - Olsson
---------- Siggy --- Leon ---------
Narsingh ----- Fer ------ Carroll
--------------- Llorente ------------
or
------------------- Fab -------------
Naughts - Fed - Maws - Olsson
---------------- Leon ---------------
--------- Fer -------- Siggy --------
Narsingh ----------------- Carroll
--------------- Llorente ------------ |
I'd have Leon back in a heart beat,however he's been out for a while,and probably wouldn't be able to do a full 90 mins,just a thought,i know we're short of decent options,suppose better to get something out of him,rather than the alternatives? |  | | |
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