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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? 13:56 - Apr 10 with 5550 viewsTheResurrection

Hear me out as I can hear the collective groans from the Planet Swans Match of the Day type pundits now....

People are beginning to stress we need more attacking intent but people automatically assume that can only come from Siggy going in to number 10 - a position that when he's played there this season we've been abysmal as a team....(yeah, yeah I know it's not Siggy's fault it's everyone else under the sun)

So what else can a team struggling for their lives try? As much as I feel we can't completely take the shackles off, we need to find a solution similar to the formation change that Clement brought in soon after he started.

Then, he found a way of getting Siggy and Fer on the pitch together without compromising our defensive duties too much.

It worked well for us and gave us a real stab at survival but it's starting to look stale now.

With Cork out I'd like to see someone who will give the fans a real boost come back, someone who's been there through it all and we know will be up for the fight. Leon Britton. We'll lose Cork's presence and height in the midfield but we'll gain Leon's tenacity and quick feet. I think he'll work well with Carroll and will hold our defensive shape well.

Onto Siggy... Arguably the main reason the 451 is looking stale is because Siggy is too predictable out on the left hand side of midfield. He can't go past a man as has no pace so his attributes to the game plan is to pick up loose balls, drift inside and get a sight on goal, both to create or score. He's also importantly defensively as he's a hard worker and covers well, when he hasn't gone wandering too much.

I don't think we can drop Fer, without Cork we'd have no beef in the middle and he is one of a very small few that can pass a man and take us further up the pitch. Maybe Fer could look to join attacks more and get himself in the mix a bit more often, but we need him in my opinion.

We'd lose Siggy's free kicks which would be the real risk in all this but Carroll or Fer, I'm sure could offer something in this department?

So who out wide in midfield?

Routledge and Siggy have been the main choices out there under Clement but looking at the stats for West Ham, a game where we had more percentage of the ball for once and when West Ham sat back for the most of the second half, both Siggy and Routs attempted just the one take on each and both failed with that.

Compare that to Ayew's 7 successful take on's from 10 tried and it's clear to see we need more from out wide, a lot more.

Because of this I'd pick Ayew instead of Siggy and hope he can offer something a bit different. Not just cutting inside but going on the outside as well, taking on opponents, getting crosses in and hopefully giving us a new dimension from that position.

The downside of this is Ayew tracking back which I'd be worried about. Is this a risk worth taking to try and be a little more expansive against a Watford team pretty much on the beach?

The other one is more tricky. It balls down to a choice of Routs, Montero or Narsingh. If we went with Ayew on the left maybe we could compensate with Routs on the right as we know he'll work hard and track back. Narsingh would be the other real contender for me to start there and would be ready to come on to change it up.

I know Llorente is back but we're looking very boring and predictable even when he's played, Hull first half, Bournemouth away and second half Saturday.

There's an argument to say the bigger risk is to not change something as it's not working.

------------------- Fab -------------
Naughts - Fed - Maws - Olsson
Routs - Fer - Leon - Carroll - Ayew
--------------- Llorente ------------

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 22:59 - Apr 11 with 712 viewsmonmouth

I'm not really sure what Fulton did, or didn't do, to get dropped. Clement won't change course now though. One change, Ki for Cork. Or not, if Cork's fit. Oops, and Llorente for Ayew assuming the big man deigns to play from the start. Otherwise, it'll be as you were. You can forget any fancy changes I'd bet.

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 23:15 - Apr 11 with 693 viewsKerouac

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 22:55 - Apr 11 by jack2jack

I'd have Leon back in a heart beat,however he's been out for a while,and probably wouldn't be able to do a full 90 mins,just a thought,i know we're short of decent options,suppose better to get something out of him,rather than the alternatives?


My thoughts behind those teams were centred around getting the ball down and playing good, attacking football, from the start...try to get our noses in front.
If Leon (or anyone else for that matter) flags, get the fresh legs on in the 2nd half and change our shape if needs be.

I've tried to shoehorn in all the "footballers" (the exception being Naughton over Rangel...that position requires more pace than Rangel has these days.

Players we can bring on to help shore up the midfield and protect the defence (if we are leading at around 60mins) include; Cork, Fulton (what has happened to him? injured?), Amat and even Rangel.
Also replace Llorente or one of the wingers to add some pace and an outlet.
Finishing the game something like this;

-------------------- Fabianski -----------------------
Naughton --- Fed ----- Mawson ------ Olsson
--------- Fulton --- Amat ---- Carroll -------------
---------------------- Siggy ---------------------------
----------- Llorente ------ Ayew -------------------

or

-------------------- Fabianski -----------------------
Naughton --- Fed ----- Mawson ------ Olsson
--------- Fulton --- Amat ---- Carroll -------------
Fer ------------------------------------------- Siggy
--------------------- Ayew --------------------------

or

-------------------- Fabianski -----------------------
Naughton --- Fed ----- Mawson ------ Olsson
--------- Siggy ---- Amat ---- Carroll -------------
Fer ---------------------------------------- Montero
--------------------- Ayew ----------------------------

Obviously, this won't happen....nothing I suggest ever does!
[Post edited 11 Apr 2017 23:24]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9VZ1FHxy0
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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 07:30 - Apr 12 with 648 viewsTheResurrection

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 22:24 - Apr 11 by Jack_Kass

Nope. Quite surprised you don't understand that really, it's on most football manager games.

You can't maintain full height, width, and depth (making the available attacking space as large as possible) and be compact (compressing defensive space to the minimum) at the same time. They are two contrasting opposites and principles of the game, that's just common sense. You can't maintain attacking width with a compact shape, and you can't be compact in defense while you have width. There is a time peiod (transition) to go from one to the other.

So if we've got 'proper' wingers that hug the sidelines , this inhibits the time it takes us to get back into a tight defensive shape, which is fine if we're expecting to be dominant in possession, and have the ball for long periods of time, and are able to keep the ball and build our attacking play, like we would have done in years gone by, but those days are long gone and that's just not us anymore.

Isn't learning fun?


Haha

I've never played a single game of football manager. You have though, haven't you?

I can't believe you've actually written this to be honest.

2 contrasting opposites?? Well yeah, defending and attacking generally are!!!

Playing 5 across the middle of the park wouldn't affect our width with the ball one iota. All it would mean is our wider players can go on the outside as well as cutting in - which is all that Siggy offers us out there.

We lose the ball then we simply fall back into shape and carry on doing the EXACT same thing we did well at Liverpool away, Leicester and Southampton home etc.

Now keep up Squire.

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 11:57 - Apr 12 with 623 viewsjasper_T

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 23:15 - Apr 11 by Kerouac

My thoughts behind those teams were centred around getting the ball down and playing good, attacking football, from the start...try to get our noses in front.
If Leon (or anyone else for that matter) flags, get the fresh legs on in the 2nd half and change our shape if needs be.

I've tried to shoehorn in all the "footballers" (the exception being Naughton over Rangel...that position requires more pace than Rangel has these days.

Players we can bring on to help shore up the midfield and protect the defence (if we are leading at around 60mins) include; Cork, Fulton (what has happened to him? injured?), Amat and even Rangel.
Also replace Llorente or one of the wingers to add some pace and an outlet.
Finishing the game something like this;

-------------------- Fabianski -----------------------
Naughton --- Fed ----- Mawson ------ Olsson
--------- Fulton --- Amat ---- Carroll -------------
---------------------- Siggy ---------------------------
----------- Llorente ------ Ayew -------------------

or

-------------------- Fabianski -----------------------
Naughton --- Fed ----- Mawson ------ Olsson
--------- Fulton --- Amat ---- Carroll -------------
Fer ------------------------------------------- Siggy
--------------------- Ayew --------------------------

or

-------------------- Fabianski -----------------------
Naughton --- Fed ----- Mawson ------ Olsson
--------- Siggy ---- Amat ---- Carroll -------------
Fer ---------------------------------------- Montero
--------------------- Ayew ----------------------------

Obviously, this won't happen....nothing I suggest ever does!
[Post edited 11 Apr 2017 23:24]


Amat not good enough to play in midfield.
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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:08 - Apr 12 with 619 viewsperchrockjack

Amat not good enough.

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:12 - Apr 12 with 617 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

We need to win games ,we've missed lorente when he hasn't played lately ,zero goal threat without him.

Dropping people who score or make goals isn't an option .

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:24 - Apr 12 with 604 viewsTheResurrection

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:12 - Apr 12 by oh_tommy_tommy

We need to win games ,we've missed lorente when he hasn't played lately ,zero goal threat without him.

Dropping people who score or make goals isn't an option .


He played first half versus Hull, all Bournemouth, second half of West Ham and about another 20 odd games when he's not scored.

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:41 - Apr 12 with 593 viewspencoedjack

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:12 - Apr 12 by oh_tommy_tommy

We need to win games ,we've missed lorente when he hasn't played lately ,zero goal threat without him.

Dropping people who score or make goals isn't an option .


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/top-scorers
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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:43 - Apr 12 with 587 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:24 - Apr 12 by TheResurrection

He played first half versus Hull, all Bournemouth, second half of West Ham and about another 20 odd games when he's not scored.


This thread is about siggy, you want to drop him , I'm also on about we need players on the pitch who at least look like scoring , one of those is lorente.

Luckily enough Clement won't drop siggy unluckily enough he may continue to play him out wide
And another game will pass him by.


There's nothing worse than seeing players playing out of position.
Lately it's been

Siggy
Fer
Ayew

Premier league be F@cked .



I'll be in Watford giving it my best shot , let's hope they all give the same.

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:58 - Apr 12 with 575 viewsTheResurrection

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:43 - Apr 12 by oh_tommy_tommy

This thread is about siggy, you want to drop him , I'm also on about we need players on the pitch who at least look like scoring , one of those is lorente.

Luckily enough Clement won't drop siggy unluckily enough he may continue to play him out wide
And another game will pass him by.


There's nothing worse than seeing players playing out of position.
Lately it's been

Siggy
Fer
Ayew

Premier league be F@cked .



I'll be in Watford giving it my best shot , let's hope they all give the same.


Seeing as nobody else has answered my question maybe you will...

Can you give me an example game this season where we've been anything like even half decent when Siggy has played at 10?

Because you and others crying out for this must have seen something all managers we've had haven't.

Come on Tom, let's see it?

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 13:33 - Apr 12 with 556 viewsLoyal

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 12:58 - Apr 12 by TheResurrection

Seeing as nobody else has answered my question maybe you will...

Can you give me an example game this season where we've been anything like even half decent when Siggy has played at 10?

Because you and others crying out for this must have seen something all managers we've had haven't.

Come on Tom, let's see it?


I would say gylfi's' positive games are few this season, however it's what he leaves behind if he is changed. I think you have a realistic point regards him however we don't have anyone IMO capable of fulfilling that number 10 role. He is obviously included for his set piece delivery, which in the last five games has been extremely lacking, aside that he never stops running, but a lot of that recently has been pointless or creates little.

The final point really mate is if he is dropped it is a dead certainty he will leave as opposed to the slim chance he won't. It is my belief the club don't want an unhappy Gylfi and his inclusion is as much about what he can deliver in pounds sterling when he goes as much as what he produces on the park.

Oh, and maybe Clement hasn't got the balls to drop him.

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 13:36 - Apr 12 with 553 viewsperchrockjack

When he leaves ,he surely should go with our respect .

He s kept us from the abyss for a long time

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 13:38 - Apr 12 with 550 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Not one of our players have pulled any trees up this year Res.
None , no one , from the goal keeper to the 5th sub hence our position

They've All been less than average that includes Siggy .
its been a F@cking disaster from the kick off .

Now then , let's have it out by here . Who do you want to play 10 , Fer , facking hell hes taking another team down ,his 3rd relegation or maybe his 4th .
He ain't got it and his record proves it , let's be honest he's f@cking rubbish.

we haven't got any one else , we haven't got any else that can create fack all , no one .


Siggy is the only bit of quality we've got in the squad , he's all we got .

We've f@cked it , buying cast offs and 5 million bargains has caught us up it was always on the cards .

However you carry on your personal crusade of blaming Siggy .
It's gives us something to brighten our day up over a pint after another defeat .
You'll get your wish in the summer he'll be sold .

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 13:45 - Apr 12 with 542 viewsperchrockjack

Siggy,by his standards has been relatively poor.

However ,he is no wide man but is selected to play there .Why ? Because he is covering for the inadequacies of others . It's why Rotledge ,god help us,is selected ...to cover our inadequate defenders. Here s a player who should not even be at our club ,along with Dyer Ki and FF but we have them and Siggy suffers .

He owes us nothing


We owe him

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 13:48 - Apr 12 with 537 viewsTheResurrection

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 13:38 - Apr 12 by oh_tommy_tommy

Not one of our players have pulled any trees up this year Res.
None , no one , from the goal keeper to the 5th sub hence our position

They've All been less than average that includes Siggy .
its been a F@cking disaster from the kick off .

Now then , let's have it out by here . Who do you want to play 10 , Fer , facking hell hes taking another team down ,his 3rd relegation or maybe his 4th .
He ain't got it and his record proves it , let's be honest he's f@cking rubbish.

we haven't got any one else , we haven't got any else that can create fack all , no one .


Siggy is the only bit of quality we've got in the squad , he's all we got .

We've f@cked it , buying cast offs and 5 million bargains has caught us up it was always on the cards .

However you carry on your personal crusade of blaming Siggy .
It's gives us something to brighten our day up over a pint after another defeat .
You'll get your wish in the summer he'll be sold .


So you can't offer me even the one example when we've done OK with him at 10???

Seriously?

So why the clamour to have him play there. It makes no sense at all.


Also, you don't need to ask me or look too far for my team. It's at the top of this thread.


Loyal, I hope he does go. He's no good for us.

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 13:54 - Apr 12 with 536 viewsperchrockjack

I haven't the memory recall Chris but ,let's put it this way, he is less effective out wide.

We have ,disgracefully, no midfielders able to score at all ,apart from Fer.


Not for no reason are Evertonpreparing a 25m bid.


You ll note that the cock that is Rotledge is never subject to bids . I doubt Age UK would take him off us

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 14:03 - Apr 12 with 527 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 13:38 - Apr 12 by oh_tommy_tommy

Not one of our players have pulled any trees up this year Res.
None , no one , from the goal keeper to the 5th sub hence our position

They've All been less than average that includes Siggy .
its been a F@cking disaster from the kick off .

Now then , let's have it out by here . Who do you want to play 10 , Fer , facking hell hes taking another team down ,his 3rd relegation or maybe his 4th .
He ain't got it and his record proves it , let's be honest he's f@cking rubbish.

we haven't got any one else , we haven't got any else that can create fack all , no one .


Siggy is the only bit of quality we've got in the squad , he's all we got .

We've f@cked it , buying cast offs and 5 million bargains has caught us up it was always on the cards .

However you carry on your personal crusade of blaming Siggy .
It's gives us something to brighten our day up over a pint after another defeat .
You'll get your wish in the summer he'll be sold .


That rubbish player that you are talking about scored 3 goals in 5 games under Guidolin, which gave us the Win against Burnley and the Draw against Chelsea. He also scored under Bradley helping us get the Win against Palace.
But he can't score if he plays deep, or if Llorente and Mawson are the dead ball targets.
But you just go ahead and slate him anyway, after all Sigi scored one more than him, probably one of the Penalties that he took.
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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 14:04 - Apr 12 with 525 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 13:48 - Apr 12 by TheResurrection

So you can't offer me even the one example when we've done OK with him at 10???

Seriously?

So why the clamour to have him play there. It makes no sense at all.


Also, you don't need to ask me or look too far for my team. It's at the top of this thread.


Loyal, I hope he does go. He's no good for us.


There we have it.








"I hope he goes "

"He's no good"


Facking hell

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 14:17 - Apr 12 with 514 viewsJack_Kass

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 07:30 - Apr 12 by TheResurrection

Haha

I've never played a single game of football manager. You have though, haven't you?

I can't believe you've actually written this to be honest.

2 contrasting opposites?? Well yeah, defending and attacking generally are!!!

Playing 5 across the middle of the park wouldn't affect our width with the ball one iota. All it would mean is our wider players can go on the outside as well as cutting in - which is all that Siggy offers us out there.

We lose the ball then we simply fall back into shape and carry on doing the EXACT same thing we did well at Liverpool away, Leicester and Southampton home etc.

Now keep up Squire.


That doesn't make sense, where else have you been learning to recite this long winded garbage from?

Good, you're learning something.

Except.. our width against Liverpool was almost non existent. We prioritized and glued the center up, meaning that we had very little work to do in terms of changing our shape when we lost the ball, which was our priority. In fact we hardly ever had the ball at all, with something ridiculous like 30% of the possession if I recall. So how can we do EXACT the same thing we did at Liverpool, when that's not what we did at Liverpool?

Keep up? I've lapped you three times over, son.

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 14:21 - Apr 12 with 511 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 14:03 - Apr 12 by A_Fans_Dad

That rubbish player that you are talking about scored 3 goals in 5 games under Guidolin, which gave us the Win against Burnley and the Draw against Chelsea. He also scored under Bradley helping us get the Win against Palace.
But he can't score if he plays deep, or if Llorente and Mawson are the dead ball targets.
But you just go ahead and slate him anyway, after all Sigi scored one more than him, probably one of the Penalties that he took.


AT LAST

Now that's what I've been fishing for.

I'm blaming just Fer and nobody else.

Now ,can you all see how stupid it looks when you blame one player in a team game .

Facking pathetic brainless stuff .
Get us another tap in Saturday Leroy .

I'm out .

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 15:55 - Apr 12 with 481 viewsTheResurrection

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 14:21 - Apr 12 by oh_tommy_tommy

AT LAST

Now that's what I've been fishing for.

I'm blaming just Fer and nobody else.

Now ,can you all see how stupid it looks when you blame one player in a team game .

Facking pathetic brainless stuff .
Get us another tap in Saturday Leroy .

I'm out .


Jesus, how Twp. You'd swear anyone would ever be dropped with that bunk theory.

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 16:09 - Apr 12 with 463 viewsTheResurrection

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 14:17 - Apr 12 by Jack_Kass

That doesn't make sense, where else have you been learning to recite this long winded garbage from?

Good, you're learning something.

Except.. our width against Liverpool was almost non existent. We prioritized and glued the center up, meaning that we had very little work to do in terms of changing our shape when we lost the ball, which was our priority. In fact we hardly ever had the ball at all, with something ridiculous like 30% of the possession if I recall. So how can we do EXACT the same thing we did at Liverpool, when that's not what we did at Liverpool?

Keep up? I've lapped you three times over, son.


The Llorente goal you mean when Carroll fed Olsson as wide on the left as you can get?

You see, well you probably won't actually, but for anyone with even half a brain, Llorente enjoys that type of service. Same as Fer's cross for him against Burnley...

There's no real difference FFS when playing 5, that's FIVE to make sure you're still with me, across the midfield and enjoying good width when attacking ie playing somebody in Siggy's position who can go on the outside as well as the inside, and being compact without the ball when falling back into defensive shape.

Only a demented Chimp would think otherwise. How is your mate Tarzan these days anyway??

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 16:10 - Apr 12 with 462 viewsmonmouth

I'm not even sure what the '10' position is in modern football, as it has become so fluid. Is it De Bryne?, Hazard? Silva? Coutinho? All of those seem to drop deep, go wide, change the point of attack.

For me Sigurdsson was best for us in his first spell when I remember him as being more box to box? Isn't that also the role he plays for Iceland? Given that he runs more kilometres than anyone in the side, that might be a better option and negate his iceberg slowness and inability to go past anyone, whilst still creating the edge of the box space for shots. It would also allow us to play Fer (or Ki) further forward, where I think both would be more effective.

We'll be back to plan A on Saturday though, with a pretty full complement. Lets hope it starts working again.

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 18:45 - Apr 12 with 415 viewsTheResurrection

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 16:10 - Apr 12 by monmouth

I'm not even sure what the '10' position is in modern football, as it has become so fluid. Is it De Bryne?, Hazard? Silva? Coutinho? All of those seem to drop deep, go wide, change the point of attack.

For me Sigurdsson was best for us in his first spell when I remember him as being more box to box? Isn't that also the role he plays for Iceland? Given that he runs more kilometres than anyone in the side, that might be a better option and negate his iceberg slowness and inability to go past anyone, whilst still creating the edge of the box space for shots. It would also allow us to play Fer (or Ki) further forward, where I think both would be more effective.

We'll be back to plan A on Saturday though, with a pretty full complement. Lets hope it starts working again.


Number 10 or attacking midfield or just in behind the striker...

I know you've put a question mark after your box to box comment and I've no doubt he'd put a shift in but he was attacking midfield in those days as well. We'd have had Leon and Joey doing the leg work with Siggy playing in front of them and behind Danny Graham.

Siggy linked well with Graham and Bony but hasn't whatsoever with Llorente.

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Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 18:54 - Apr 12 with 407 viewsTheResurrection

Shall we be brave and drop Siggy? on 13:54 - Apr 12 by perchrockjack

I haven't the memory recall Chris but ,let's put it this way, he is less effective out wide.

We have ,disgracefully, no midfielders able to score at all ,apart from Fer.


Not for no reason are Evertonpreparing a 25m bid.


You ll note that the cock that is Rotledge is never subject to bids . I doubt Age UK would take him off us


It seems nobody has the memory Rich and the reason for that is we haven't had a single successful performance when he's played there.

Not the one!!!

So why everyone is demanding he plays there I've got no idea.

I feel we may need to try something different. I'm not disputing that.

But seeing as we've tried Siggy at 10 quite a lot at different stages throughout the season and we've been totally woeful, what gives anyone the confidence that can work now?

Isn't that a fair question and assessment?

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