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French presidential election run off. on 00:29 - Apr 25 by Kerouac
Macron is Tony Blair.
It really made me laugh to see headlines making him out to be an "outsider" intent on reform. He is an investment banker who has served as finance minister and is backed by the French and European elites. He was just savvy enough to judge which way the wind was blowing and manufacture himself a position where he could disentangle himself from mainstream politics and claim to be anti-establishment. He is p*ssing down the neck of the French voting public and telling them it is raining, sporting a beaming smile and an expensive suit.
Was funny watching Mandelson talk about him on Newsnight earlier as some kind of shining example for the left...Macron has been pictured with Mandelson's book on the shelf behind him, Mandelson talked about the strategy of Macron and then couched it in terms like; "but he recognised that he had to stand on principles"
Some still don't get it. People across the West are now aware that they have been sold a lot of bullsh*t by establishments and no longer believe in and trust the people at the top who have been lying to them for so long while looking after their own narrow interests.
They have rejected the status quo, yet still arseholes like Macron are repackaged and marketed to the electorate again and again and again.
I wouldn't be surprised if Le Pen won at all.
"Macron is Tony Blair. "
When I made the crack about 'Blairite stage management' I wasn't pulling that out of thin air I was watching history repeating.
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
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French presidential election run off. on 08:40 - Apr 25 with 924 views
French presidential election run off. on 06:14 - Apr 25 by exiledclaseboy
I agree about Macron to an extent. He's very much part of the elite despite not belonging to the main political parties. But so is le Pen.
Would you like to see le Pen win, Kerouac? I know you haven't mentioned her much in your post there but given your views on some things I'd imagine you'd be quite the admirer of hers.
[Post edited 25 Apr 2017 6:16]
I am for Brexit and recognise that Islam is incompatible with our society (therefore I believe measures need to be taken to address this...which I have outlined many times).
The EU and Islamic terrorism are the big issues in Europe of our time...everybody is proposing either closer union, reform of the EU or the break up of the EU right across Europe. Nobody is arguing for the status quo.
Everybody across Europe are now putting forward their strategies for combating Islamic terror...they have been forced to come to these positions by reality.
I am not for Le Pen. I am a Liberal Democrat for Christ sake!
French presidential election run off. on 08:40 - Apr 25 by Kerouac
I am for Brexit and recognise that Islam is incompatible with our society (therefore I believe measures need to be taken to address this...which I have outlined many times).
The EU and Islamic terrorism are the big issues in Europe of our time...everybody is proposing either closer union, reform of the EU or the break up of the EU right across Europe. Nobody is arguing for the status quo.
Everybody across Europe are now putting forward their strategies for combating Islamic terror...they have been forced to come to these positions by reality.
I am not for Le Pen. I am a Liberal Democrat for Christ sake!
Islam is not incompatible with society, I happily work and socialise with many muslims.
Terrorism is incompatible with society.
2
French presidential election run off. on 09:00 - Apr 25 with 907 views
French presidential election run off. on 09:00 - Apr 25 by Pegojack
Let me ask you, are you accepting of the Islamic view of women and their role in society, or of homosexuality?
I'm not,
Nor of the Christian view of either. Nor Jewish. All are pretty much the same.
And yet people have no problem accepting that people of a Christian background don't agree with those aspects of their religion, but think Moslems all agree with all of it. Or point out that countries such as Saudi are abhorrent in their views (which is true) but fail to say the same about Uganda (a Christian country which puts gays to death). Why does everyone seem to believe that Moslems are all fundamentalist nutters but the rest of us aren't? The Moslems I know are as tolerant as anyone else.
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French presidential election run off. on 09:28 - Apr 25 with 875 views
French presidential election run off. on 09:15 - Apr 25 by londonlisa2001
I'm not,
Nor of the Christian view of either. Nor Jewish. All are pretty much the same.
And yet people have no problem accepting that people of a Christian background don't agree with those aspects of their religion, but think Moslems all agree with all of it. Or point out that countries such as Saudi are abhorrent in their views (which is true) but fail to say the same about Uganda (a Christian country which puts gays to death). Why does everyone seem to believe that Moslems are all fundamentalist nutters but the rest of us aren't? The Moslems I know are as tolerant as anyone else.
What she said.
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French presidential election run off. on 09:32 - Apr 25 with 870 views
French presidential election run off. on 09:15 - Apr 25 by londonlisa2001
I'm not,
Nor of the Christian view of either. Nor Jewish. All are pretty much the same.
And yet people have no problem accepting that people of a Christian background don't agree with those aspects of their religion, but think Moslems all agree with all of it. Or point out that countries such as Saudi are abhorrent in their views (which is true) but fail to say the same about Uganda (a Christian country which puts gays to death). Why does everyone seem to believe that Moslems are all fundamentalist nutters but the rest of us aren't? The Moslems I know are as tolerant as anyone else.
I agree with you, but would probably go further. As I've said on here many times, I think all religion is an exercise in self delusion, mind control for the weak of intellect, and is generally a negative force in the world. I'm in favour of a totally secular society, no involvement whatsoever for any religion in education, for example, other than as an object of curiosity for study in sociology.
However, what concerns me in this particular debate is how far the adherents of a particular religion allow it to shape their everyday lives and actions. Of course there will be many exceptions amongst the Muslim community, but I feel world Islam is the most extreme and single minded in promoting its medieval view of society and the most dangerous to Western liberal civilization.
Of course, the problem traditional lefties have got (me included) is their reluctance to meet this threat head on, to criticize and to oppose the spread of Muslim culture and practice , for fear of being labeled 'racist' or 'fascist', whilst at the same time failing to acknowledge that Islam is at its very heart one of the most intolerant, racist and fascist of world philosophies.
French presidential election run off. on 09:32 - Apr 25 by Pegojack
I agree with you, but would probably go further. As I've said on here many times, I think all religion is an exercise in self delusion, mind control for the weak of intellect, and is generally a negative force in the world. I'm in favour of a totally secular society, no involvement whatsoever for any religion in education, for example, other than as an object of curiosity for study in sociology.
However, what concerns me in this particular debate is how far the adherents of a particular religion allow it to shape their everyday lives and actions. Of course there will be many exceptions amongst the Muslim community, but I feel world Islam is the most extreme and single minded in promoting its medieval view of society and the most dangerous to Western liberal civilization.
Of course, the problem traditional lefties have got (me included) is their reluctance to meet this threat head on, to criticize and to oppose the spread of Muslim culture and practice , for fear of being labeled 'racist' or 'fascist', whilst at the same time failing to acknowledge that Islam is at its very heart one of the most intolerant, racist and fascist of world philosophies.
I agree with most of that, but it seems like your view of muslims is based on what you see in the media - every muslim I know treats their wife with respect and dignity, just because it is written in the Quran doesn't mean thats exactly how they live, can you imagine all Christians living by the exact words of the bible.
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French presidential election run off. on 09:40 - Apr 25 with 862 views
French presidential election run off. on 09:32 - Apr 25 by Pegojack
I agree with you, but would probably go further. As I've said on here many times, I think all religion is an exercise in self delusion, mind control for the weak of intellect, and is generally a negative force in the world. I'm in favour of a totally secular society, no involvement whatsoever for any religion in education, for example, other than as an object of curiosity for study in sociology.
However, what concerns me in this particular debate is how far the adherents of a particular religion allow it to shape their everyday lives and actions. Of course there will be many exceptions amongst the Muslim community, but I feel world Islam is the most extreme and single minded in promoting its medieval view of society and the most dangerous to Western liberal civilization.
Of course, the problem traditional lefties have got (me included) is their reluctance to meet this threat head on, to criticize and to oppose the spread of Muslim culture and practice , for fear of being labeled 'racist' or 'fascist', whilst at the same time failing to acknowledge that Islam is at its very heart one of the most intolerant, racist and fascist of world philosophies.
It's as intolerant as every other religion.
And the only reason people feel that Moslems allow it to shape their everyday lives is because the media constantly push the message of a small minority of nutters.
If every time you heard the word Christian they showed the Westboro Church lot, or every time someone white in the US killed a person or a bunch of people they were called a 'Christian terrorist' you'd think the same about Christianity.
It always strikes me that the people who actually know more Moslems (live in London just as an example) dont agree with the view that they are intolerant or obsessed by their religion.
Edited to add - one of the great confusions is the influence of Arab culture being confused with Islam.
[Post edited 25 Apr 2017 9:41]
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French presidential election run off. on 09:42 - Apr 25 with 859 views
French presidential election run off. on 09:40 - Apr 25 by londonlisa2001
It's as intolerant as every other religion.
And the only reason people feel that Moslems allow it to shape their everyday lives is because the media constantly push the message of a small minority of nutters.
If every time you heard the word Christian they showed the Westboro Church lot, or every time someone white in the US killed a person or a bunch of people they were called a 'Christian terrorist' you'd think the same about Christianity.
It always strikes me that the people who actually know more Moslems (live in London just as an example) dont agree with the view that they are intolerant or obsessed by their religion.
Edited to add - one of the great confusions is the influence of Arab culture being confused with Islam.
[Post edited 25 Apr 2017 9:41]
Have you been to Hereford?
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French presidential election run off. on 09:55 - Apr 25 with 851 views
French presidential election run off. on 09:40 - Apr 25 by londonlisa2001
It's as intolerant as every other religion.
And the only reason people feel that Moslems allow it to shape their everyday lives is because the media constantly push the message of a small minority of nutters.
If every time you heard the word Christian they showed the Westboro Church lot, or every time someone white in the US killed a person or a bunch of people they were called a 'Christian terrorist' you'd think the same about Christianity.
It always strikes me that the people who actually know more Moslems (live in London just as an example) dont agree with the view that they are intolerant or obsessed by their religion.
Edited to add - one of the great confusions is the influence of Arab culture being confused with Islam.
[Post edited 25 Apr 2017 9:41]
Islam is an expression of Arab culture and the blueprint for an Arab empire.
French presidential election run off. on 09:35 - Apr 25 by PURe_Evil
I agree with most of that, but it seems like your view of muslims is based on what you see in the media - every muslim I know treats their wife with respect and dignity, just because it is written in the Quran doesn't mean thats exactly how they live, can you imagine all Christians living by the exact words of the bible.
I once worked with a lot of Turks. The company we worked for was based in the UK, I got on well with them, they took me into their confidence... ...in fact, so relaxed were they in my company that the mask was allowed to slip on many an occasion. I remember one example, we were in a casino and having a drink (some had coffee or soft drinks, a few were drinking alcohol with me. These supposed tolerant, moderate, muslims had a lot to say about the behaviour of the British and young British women in particular...none of it nice, utterly disrespectful I would call it. the collective view was that our young women are no better than whores.
I left.
Lisa - Don't tell me I don't know Muslims because I am not metropolitan/cosmopolitan enough. You don't know me and I KNOW of what I speak.
There is no such thing as 'Moderate Islam' as judged against our own cultural view of what is tolerant and moderate and the same can be said when Islam is measured up against other cultures too. This is why there is conflict all along the borders of Islam, wherever Islam rubs up against non-Muslims...and this has always been the case.
French presidential election run off. on 10:06 - Apr 25 by Kerouac
I once worked with a lot of Turks. The company we worked for was based in the UK, I got on well with them, they took me into their confidence... ...in fact, so relaxed were they in my company that the mask was allowed to slip on many an occasion. I remember one example, we were in a casino and having a drink (some had coffee or soft drinks, a few were drinking alcohol with me. These supposed tolerant, moderate, muslims had a lot to say about the behaviour of the British and young British women in particular...none of it nice, utterly disrespectful I would call it. the collective view was that our young women are no better than whores.
I left.
Lisa - Don't tell me I don't know Muslims because I am not metropolitan/cosmopolitan enough. You don't know me and I KNOW of what I speak.
There is no such thing as 'Moderate Islam' as judged against our own cultural view of what is tolerant and moderate and the same can be said when Islam is measured up against other cultures too. This is why there is conflict all along the borders of Islam, wherever Islam rubs up against non-Muslims...and this has always been the case.
I genuinely can't tell if thats a serious post?
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French presidential election run off. on 10:10 - Apr 25 with 828 views
French presidential election run off. on 10:06 - Apr 25 by Kerouac
I once worked with a lot of Turks. The company we worked for was based in the UK, I got on well with them, they took me into their confidence... ...in fact, so relaxed were they in my company that the mask was allowed to slip on many an occasion. I remember one example, we were in a casino and having a drink (some had coffee or soft drinks, a few were drinking alcohol with me. These supposed tolerant, moderate, muslims had a lot to say about the behaviour of the British and young British women in particular...none of it nice, utterly disrespectful I would call it. the collective view was that our young women are no better than whores.
I left.
Lisa - Don't tell me I don't know Muslims because I am not metropolitan/cosmopolitan enough. You don't know me and I KNOW of what I speak.
There is no such thing as 'Moderate Islam' as judged against our own cultural view of what is tolerant and moderate and the same can be said when Islam is measured up against other cultures too. This is why there is conflict all along the borders of Islam, wherever Islam rubs up against non-Muslims...and this has always been the case.
You used to work in Llanelli? lol
The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
French presidential election run off. on 10:06 - Apr 25 by Kerouac
I once worked with a lot of Turks. The company we worked for was based in the UK, I got on well with them, they took me into their confidence... ...in fact, so relaxed were they in my company that the mask was allowed to slip on many an occasion. I remember one example, we were in a casino and having a drink (some had coffee or soft drinks, a few were drinking alcohol with me. These supposed tolerant, moderate, muslims had a lot to say about the behaviour of the British and young British women in particular...none of it nice, utterly disrespectful I would call it. the collective view was that our young women are no better than whores.
I left.
Lisa - Don't tell me I don't know Muslims because I am not metropolitan/cosmopolitan enough. You don't know me and I KNOW of what I speak.
There is no such thing as 'Moderate Islam' as judged against our own cultural view of what is tolerant and moderate and the same can be said when Islam is measured up against other cultures too. This is why there is conflict all along the borders of Islam, wherever Islam rubs up against non-Muslims...and this has always been the case.
Incidentally I once worked with a lot of Welsh people and we were in Castle Bingo they had a lot to say about the young Morriston girls, none of it nice.
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French presidential election run off. on 10:27 - Apr 25 with 801 views
French presidential election run off. on 10:14 - Apr 25 by PURe_Evil
Incidentally I once worked with a lot of Welsh people and we were in Castle Bingo they had a lot to say about the young Morriston girls, none of it nice.
Yeah because having grown up in South Wales, Port Talbot, I can't tell the difference.
Keep telling yourself it'll be alright.
We are selling out our children.
We need to get a grip of religion in general but especially Islam or there will be a civil war in our children's or Grandchildren's lifetime.
....I know, I know, "Kerouac's a facist/Nazi/Islamophobe etc." No I'm not, I'm a Liberal Democrat who actually believes in the things my party is supposed to stand for.
Ask yourself this question; If the behaviour I described is just like the boys in Morriston and has so little to do with the religion (the ideology force fed to these people throughout their childhoods) how come you will find societies that reflect these views across the Islamic World, without exception.
Are the women of Morriston oppressed? If your answer is "yes", how does that oppression compare with the women of Turkey?
Try to take the question seriously and answer it as scientifically as possible. Then ask yourself WHY the likes of yourself and Lisa want to compare apples and oranges and pretend that they are the same.
French presidential election run off. on 10:27 - Apr 25 by Kerouac
Yeah because having grown up in South Wales, Port Talbot, I can't tell the difference.
Keep telling yourself it'll be alright.
We are selling out our children.
We need to get a grip of religion in general but especially Islam or there will be a civil war in our children's or Grandchildren's lifetime.
....I know, I know, "Kerouac's a facist/Nazi/Islamophobe etc." No I'm not, I'm a Liberal Democrat who actually believes in the things my party is supposed to stand for.
Ask yourself this question; If the behaviour I described is just like the boys in Morriston and has so little to do with the religion (the ideology force fed to these people throughout their childhoods) how come you will find societies that reflect these views across the Islamic World, without exception.
Are the women of Morriston oppressed? If your answer is "yes", how does that oppression compare with the women of Turkey?
Try to take the question seriously and answer it as scientifically as possible. Then ask yourself WHY the likes of yourself and Lisa want to compare apples and oranges and pretend that they are the same.
[Post edited 25 Apr 2017 10:30]
Do you honestly think all muslim women are oppressed? Do you know any?
And I don't think you are a Nazi.
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French presidential election run off. on 10:35 - Apr 25 with 786 views
French presidential election run off. on 10:27 - Apr 25 by Kerouac
Yeah because having grown up in South Wales, Port Talbot, I can't tell the difference.
Keep telling yourself it'll be alright.
We are selling out our children.
We need to get a grip of religion in general but especially Islam or there will be a civil war in our children's or Grandchildren's lifetime.
....I know, I know, "Kerouac's a facist/Nazi/Islamophobe etc." No I'm not, I'm a Liberal Democrat who actually believes in the things my party is supposed to stand for.
Ask yourself this question; If the behaviour I described is just like the boys in Morriston and has so little to do with the religion (the ideology force fed to these people throughout their childhoods) how come you will find societies that reflect these views across the Islamic World, without exception.
Are the women of Morriston oppressed? If your answer is "yes", how does that oppression compare with the women of Turkey?
Try to take the question seriously and answer it as scientifically as possible. Then ask yourself WHY the likes of yourself and Lisa want to compare apples and oranges and pretend that they are the same.
[Post edited 25 Apr 2017 10:30]
What part of Port Talbot?
The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
French presidential election run off. on 10:31 - Apr 25 by PURe_Evil
Do you honestly think all muslim women are oppressed? Do you know any?
And I don't think you are a Nazi.
Watch this, a lot of the kids on it are good, lovely, people. Unfortunately they have been force fed this ideology and are policed by the elders in their community. It is not healthy. Would you want it for your children? If Islam is allowed to grow unfettered in this country these are the values, ideas, norms that will be allowed to grow in modern Britain. Is this what we want for future generations of British kids (and when I say British I am not talking about ethnicity)
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