| Will lessons be learned if we survive? 06:46 - May 8 with 7823 views | E20Jack |
I genuinely believe that the Americans took over completely underestimating the need in constant, quality investment in the playing side. Seeing us as a safe mid table Premier League side, and they would be able to get a cheap deal with minimal investment and get some nice dividends from the profits every year. Sadly I think Jenkins did nothing to convince them otherwise, not to rock the boat. If they knew the club needed £15m-£20m net spend at least per season they wouldnt have been so keen.
Unfortunately football, and more specifically Premier League football, isnt like that. You can not scrimp and save otherwise you will be found out extremely quickly and your £100m+ business could end up a £30m business struggling to even pay its running costs before you can say "Blackburn Rovers".
If we do stay up by a gnats hair, and there is still an awful lot of work to do for that to happen, do you think the Americans will have realised the errors of their ways and redirect club income towards the playing side (Gylfi and Borja sale + the usual £15m) or do you think we will continue to let our top players go and replace with the standard £5m player?
We should have a small squad full of quality in order to finance the wage structure. A but like the Laudrup era. The frustrating thing is after this debacle is over, we have a real chance to progress given the right backing, yet I have a horrible feeling that the vision of the fans and the vision of the owners do not marry up.
I think after this season is out, as 21% shareholder the Trust deserve to know what direction the club is going in, what are the actual immediate plans regarding transfer budget and whether it is a low investment "surviving excercise" or are we actually looking to improve the club.
Is this something the Trust will be doing? |  |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 10:04 - May 8 with 1184 views | perchrockjack |
Not really Roger
Hitherto, we ve not been in a position to crack on |  |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 10:26 - May 8 with 1162 views | jack247 |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 09:11 - May 8 by waynekerr55 |
Well we have very low expectations if we don't think that we can find a better replacement for 500k per year |
Damn right I do. These are the people that gave Bob Bradley a Premier League job. | | | |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 10:57 - May 8 with 1131 views | Gowerjack |
In answer to the original post.
No.
Jenkins will see survival as a vindication of his management.
The clueless c unt. |  |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 11:20 - May 8 with 1107 views | waynekerr55 |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 10:00 - May 8 by lifelong |
Do you not think that 6 years in the top flight is progression in itself?
It's something the club has never done before in over a hundred years. |
You could argue that, yes. But on the flipside:
- huge operating losses
- a shambles of a commercial outfit (cue the usual excuses of we don't have the catering contracts etc.)
- next to no movement on expansion
Our supposed 'fans' f*cked the above off to chase the dough, which would be fine if they hadn't spun more bullsh*t that Alastair Campbell about their intentions. |  |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 11:25 - May 8 with 1099 views | waynekerr55 |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 10:26 - May 8 by jack247 |
Damn right I do. These are the people that gave Bob Bradley a Premier League job. |
Sadly that's a very good point. However one can hope that this experience has given them the kick up the coccyx that they needed  | |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 11:34 - May 8 with 1087 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 07:10 - May 8 by Dr_Winston |
We don't need a £15-20m net spend every year. We probably couldn't afford it anyway without heading into debt to someone, and that's not a price worth paying.
You mention the Laudrup squad as an example. Laudrup spent about £15-16m in the summer of 2012, money that was almost totally recouped by the sale of Joe Allen, never mind the sales of both Scott Sinclair and then Danny Graham.
We could do with beefing the squad up in certain areas but who the player is and whether or not the manager actually has a use for them is far more important than how much we spend on them. |
DR Winston, what do you think has happened in the 5 years since your £15-16M that Laudrup spent in 2012.
Do you actually think that you can still buy players of the same quality for the same prices as then.
I would suggest that the prices for Prem quality players have at least doubled since then, if not trebled. | | | |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 11:37 - May 8 with 1083 views | macthejack |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 08:45 - May 8 by STID2017 |
Everyone assumes Allen had his car packed pointing in the direction of Swansea.
How do we know he ever wanted to come back to us ?
He may have been advised against it or may have been offered a much better deal at Stoke.
Players have to weigh up what is best for them in a very short career - maybe Joe worked out he'd be better off elsewhere ?
A fan of Swans he may be, but his financial security has to come first. |
He was looking at houses on the Gower.
That decision really sticks in the throat as we rejected a bid of around 5-7 million from Stoke for Ki. We could realistically have got Allen, got rid of Ki for an outlay of no more than 8 million squids. Cretins. |  | | |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 11:44 - May 8 with 1064 views | waynekerr55 |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 11:37 - May 8 by macthejack |
He was looking at houses on the Gower.
That decision really sticks in the throat as we rejected a bid of around 5-7 million from Stoke for Ki. We could realistically have got Allen, got rid of Ki for an outlay of no more than 8 million squids. Cretins. |
I'm looking forward to the article spoon fed to Wathan as to why Gonzo made this choice in the best interests of the club... | |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 11:47 - May 8 with 1060 views | Uxbridge |
If we have a net spend of £20m each year then we'll be £100m in debt to somebody after 5 years. There is absolutely no reason why SCFC cannot live within its means, especially if those means include a 9 figure TV deal.
We'll always be a selling club. The trick is to buy low and sell high. We did that with Bony (relatively so ... he still cost £15m or so), Ayew from a financial perspective was excellent business all round and we could yet with Gylfi, however the rest are very few and far between. Recruitment has been poor in recent years, and that is one of the most pressing areas for improvement. January seemed a step forward on that score, although difficult to see any of those turning into a big money move either.
However, anyone expecting the Americans to invest money into the footballing side (or even the club) haven't been paying attention to their actions to date or their words. The January purchases were funded by bringing forward money from the Ayew sale. Anything in the future will need to be funded by players going out (and we've a few of those) or TV revenue (if we stay up).
However this thread is at least one week too early. There's still every chance we'll be in the Championship next season, at which time the challenges are somewhat different. Never been much of a fan of tempting fate. |  |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:27 - May 8 with 1007 views | MrSwerve |
We need to allow PC to loan in some players in the summer, surely he knows plenty of great talents in the Bayern and Real Madrid squads who are either in the under-21 (or equivalent) or unused first team players. If we can get a couple of these in with a few purchases, I don't think we need a huge overhaul. |  |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:34 - May 8 with 995 views | AngelRangelQS |
Irrespective of whether we stay up or go down, I fully expect the following to go:
1. Siggy . Approx £25m-£30m
2. Llorente. Approx £5m.
3. Montero. £5m?
4. Borja. £12m?
5. Ki. £7m?
With a bit of luck and the right contacts, we could really improve the squad with that, though the first two will be very big losses. |  | | |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:37 - May 8 with 985 views | shandyjack |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:34 - May 8 by AngelRangelQS |
Irrespective of whether we stay up or go down, I fully expect the following to go:
1. Siggy . Approx £25m-£30m
2. Llorente. Approx £5m.
3. Montero. £5m?
4. Borja. £12m?
5. Ki. £7m?
With a bit of luck and the right contacts, we could really improve the squad with that, though the first two will be very big losses. |
add in Gomis too for around £8-10m
although i think you've undercut how much Llorente would go for, we paid that for him and he's proven he can score with the right service in this league |  |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:38 - May 8 with 983 views | jack247 |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:34 - May 8 by AngelRangelQS |
Irrespective of whether we stay up or go down, I fully expect the following to go:
1. Siggy . Approx £25m-£30m
2. Llorente. Approx £5m.
3. Montero. £5m?
4. Borja. £12m?
5. Ki. £7m?
With a bit of luck and the right contacts, we could really improve the squad with that, though the first two will be very big losses. |
Sadly mate, I think you have overvalued every one of those. Only Llorente seems realistic to me, especially if we go down. | | | |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:42 - May 8 with 973 views | E20Jack |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 11:47 - May 8 by Uxbridge |
If we have a net spend of £20m each year then we'll be £100m in debt to somebody after 5 years. There is absolutely no reason why SCFC cannot live within its means, especially if those means include a 9 figure TV deal.
We'll always be a selling club. The trick is to buy low and sell high. We did that with Bony (relatively so ... he still cost £15m or so), Ayew from a financial perspective was excellent business all round and we could yet with Gylfi, however the rest are very few and far between. Recruitment has been poor in recent years, and that is one of the most pressing areas for improvement. January seemed a step forward on that score, although difficult to see any of those turning into a big money move either.
However, anyone expecting the Americans to invest money into the footballing side (or even the club) haven't been paying attention to their actions to date or their words. The January purchases were funded by bringing forward money from the Ayew sale. Anything in the future will need to be funded by players going out (and we've a few of those) or TV revenue (if we stay up).
However this thread is at least one week too early. There's still every chance we'll be in the Championship next season, at which time the challenges are somewhat different. Never been much of a fan of tempting fate. |
That's not how it works. Net spend in terms of transfer not turnover. You can have a net spend of £15m per season and still make a profit without any major alterations. We are all saying we should live within our means and nobody is expecting the Americans to put money in or us take out loans.
The point is we have £100m+ income. If we can't make £15m of that available each year to strengthen the playing side then our budgeting is a farce. | |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:49 - May 8 with 956 views | AngelRangelQS |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:38 - May 8 by jack247 |
Sadly mate, I think you have overvalued every one of those. Only Llorente seems realistic to me, especially if we go down. |
It was just based on previous rumours, etc and what we paid for them.
If we don't get £25m for Siggy (if we stay up) then there is absolutely no point in selling him. I'd argue against selling him for even that but let's not start that here.
I don't think Borja would have lost too much value in Spain based on one unsuccessful season over here. If someone like Josh King goes to an average Spanish side for £15m this summer but doesn't do anything there, you wouldn't expect his value to have dropped too dramatically the following summer?
Ki/Montero - I think you'd probably be looking around £10m-£12m for the pair, combined. Surely not any less than that? | | | |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:51 - May 8 with 947 views | waynekerr55 |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:42 - May 8 by E20Jack |
That's not how it works. Net spend in terms of transfer not turnover. You can have a net spend of £15m per season and still make a profit without any major alterations. We are all saying we should live within our means and nobody is expecting the Americans to put money in or us take out loans.
The point is we have £100m+ income. If we can't make £15m of that available each year to strengthen the playing side then our budgeting is a farce. |
Well with the Chuckle Brothers being responsible for recruitment and commercial...
Sort of validates your last sentence  | |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 13:00 - May 8 with 931 views | jack247 |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:49 - May 8 by AngelRangelQS |
It was just based on previous rumours, etc and what we paid for them.
If we don't get £25m for Siggy (if we stay up) then there is absolutely no point in selling him. I'd argue against selling him for even that but let's not start that here.
I don't think Borja would have lost too much value in Spain based on one unsuccessful season over here. If someone like Josh King goes to an average Spanish side for £15m this summer but doesn't do anything there, you wouldn't expect his value to have dropped too dramatically the following summer?
Ki/Montero - I think you'd probably be looking around £10m-£12m for the pair, combined. Surely not any less than that? |
Look at it from a buying clubs point of view.
Would you spend £5m on Montero or £12m on Borja? You wouldn't. If you were going to spend that kind of money you would just buy better players. [Post edited 8 May 2017 13:00]
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 13:22 - May 8 with 905 views | Uxbridge |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:42 - May 8 by E20Jack |
That's not how it works. Net spend in terms of transfer not turnover. You can have a net spend of £15m per season and still make a profit without any major alterations. We are all saying we should live within our means and nobody is expecting the Americans to put money in or us take out loans.
The point is we have £100m+ income. If we can't make £15m of that available each year to strengthen the playing side then our budgeting is a farce. |
It is, and has been the way the club has been run for years. The club is already spending everything that is coming in. That's an issue in itself. | |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 13:28 - May 8 with 896 views | dobjack2 |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 10:00 - May 8 by lifelong |
Do you not think that 6 years in the top flight is progression in itself?
It's something the club has never done before in over a hundred years. |
No.
We should have been building the squad year on year not chipping away at the foundations.
If we stay up we are arguably not as strong as when we came up and will need to sell to try and strengthen the side with quality. | | | |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 13:39 - May 8 with 881 views | costalotta |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 12:34 - May 8 by AngelRangelQS |
Irrespective of whether we stay up or go down, I fully expect the following to go:
1. Siggy . Approx £25m-£30m
2. Llorente. Approx £5m.
3. Montero. £5m?
4. Borja. £12m?
5. Ki. £7m?
With a bit of luck and the right contacts, we could really improve the squad with that, though the first two will be very big losses. |
Add to that...
Barrow 2.5m
Bartley 4m
Emnes 0.5m
VDH 1.5m
Amat 2m |  | | |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 13:52 - May 8 with 871 views | E20Jack |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 13:22 - May 8 by Uxbridge |
It is, and has been the way the club has been run for years. The club is already spending everything that is coming in. That's an issue in itself. |
It's not. £15m net spend on players doesn't mean we have to be £15m on debt as a result.
Yes that's the point. Money is being spent in the wrong areas currently, the club needs £15m of investment into the playing squad net every season to continue to progress. We have £100m+ income. There is no excuse that is even remotely feasible as to why this cannot be workable. None.
And if it continues to be "unworkable" due to shareholders taking too much dividends, shareholders taking too much wages, building yet more infrastructure, paying off yet more useless managers who have been offered too long contracts then we may as well go down this season and get it over and done with. Why prolong the inevitable. [Post edited 8 May 2017 13:56]
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 13:52 - May 8 with 869 views | somersetsimon |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 08:40 - May 8 by E20Jack |
Agree with you. "If you buy it cheap then you buy it twice" comes to mind. This transfer nonsense needs a major overhaul. Not bringing back Allen and baulking at a few extra million will sting for a very long time, he would have been one of the safest investments a club could ever make. |
Maybe there is some logic behind their transfer policies.
Option (1) buy a player for £10M, pay them £60K a week and have a reasonable prospect of success
Option (2) buy two players for £5M each, pay them £30K each and hope one them turns out to be a lot better than you thought, then sell on the duff one. |  | | |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 14:26 - May 8 with 825 views | E20Jack |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 13:52 - May 8 by somersetsimon |
Maybe there is some logic behind their transfer policies.
Option (1) buy a player for £10M, pay them £60K a week and have a reasonable prospect of success
Option (2) buy two players for £5M each, pay them £30K each and hope one them turns out to be a lot better than you thought, then sell on the duff one. |
Well if that is their logic that is even more concerning than initially thought.
Although even this bunch of rag tag businessmen aren't that stupid I'm sure. | |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 14:30 - May 8 with 820 views | Gowerjack |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 11:37 - May 8 by macthejack |
He was looking at houses on the Gower.
That decision really sticks in the throat as we rejected a bid of around 5-7 million from Stoke for Ki. We could realistically have got Allen, got rid of Ki for an outlay of no more than 8 million squids. Cretins. |
He already owns a substantial property on Gower.
And there is no such place as The Gower,something I may have mentioned on here previously. | |
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| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 14:31 - May 8 with 816 views | macthejack |
| Will lessons be learned if we survive? on 14:30 - May 8 by Gowerjack |
He already owns a substantial property on Gower.
And there is no such place as The Gower,something I may have mentioned on here previously. |
Sorry TheGowerJack | | | |
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