| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 08:09 - Mar 1 with 3013 views | nordenblue |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 07:55 - Mar 1 by TalkingSutty |
Simon Gauge is no better than any of us, if that's what you are suggesting. He hasn't just arrived in Rochdale I don't think, somebody said he's from the Luton area..give me Rochdale any day. It seems that this was the only option open to the Chairman but I would still like it confirming from the Trust Board rep that all other options were properly explored in a effort to avoid a significant amount of fans and shareholders having to vote through the motions at the EGM. Only Gauge and those in the Boardroom will know tge answer to that. If that's the case then yes, history could be kind should this deal go through. If it doesn't I'm hoping he hasn't burned bridges with others who might have been deemed suitable. |
While I agree with most of what you post TS, I'm not sure Simon Gauge thinks nor do most fans think he's any "better" than us but his financial input and sounds like losses too that he's put into the club should never be underestimated in all this.
I'm not his biggest fan by any stretch and certainly think he could have helped his cause massively with better communication throughout his time as chairman, but some of the comments aimed at him are nothing but embarrassing and massively misguided. |  | |  |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 10:29 - Mar 1 with 2575 views | TalkingSutty |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 08:09 - Mar 1 by nordenblue |
While I agree with most of what you post TS, I'm not sure Simon Gauge thinks nor do most fans think he's any "better" than us but his financial input and sounds like losses too that he's put into the club should never be underestimated in all this.
I'm not his biggest fan by any stretch and certainly think he could have helped his cause massively with better communication throughout his time as chairman, but some of the comments aimed at him are nothing but embarrassing and massively misguided. |
Sorry, you misinterpreted my reply to your post. I'm not suggesting that the Chairman thinks he is better than people from Rochdale, it was yourself who seemed to indicate that in your post. Apologies if i misinterpreted that. Generation's of fans have kept this club going throughout its history, Cloughie dedicated his life and estate to it. The majority are Rochdalians but obviously what Simon and the Directors put into the club is a fantastic gesture. Collectively the value of the fans shares is about to disappear, and that's a magnificent gesture and combined it's a awful lot of money the shareholders/ Trust members/ fans are writing off. That's something that i haven't seen mentioned in all of this, some fans stand to lose thousands of pounds and it's a situation that they have very little say in. As I said, if all options have been properly explored by the Chairman and approving the motions at the EGM was the only choice then fair enough. [Post edited 1 Mar 10:44]
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 10:40 - Mar 1 with 2508 views | wozzrafc |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 07:55 - Mar 1 by TalkingSutty |
Simon Gauge is no better than any of us, if that's what you are suggesting. He hasn't just arrived in Rochdale I don't think, somebody said he's from the Luton area..give me Rochdale any day. It seems that this was the only option open to the Chairman but I would still like it confirming from the Trust Board rep that all other options were properly explored in a effort to avoid a significant amount of fans and shareholders having to vote through the motions at the EGM. Only Gauge and those in the Boardroom will know tge answer to that. If that's the case then yes, history could be kind should this deal go through. If it doesn't I'm hoping he hasn't burned bridges with others who might have been deemed suitable. |
He is from Biggleswade but move to Rochdale years ago.
how we got here has been covered on numerous threads and it won’t change the fact that we now face a decision none of us wanted.
However if we had to choose the profile from a type of investor we would want I think one which has a background of sports club ownership and player development would be pretty much at the e top of our list, along with no red flags during due diligence, I’m sure the trust will continue its work there and will report back if there are. The fact they spoke about covering the cost of keeping the academy going to the tune of £400k should be seen as a positive.
Time is not something that we have. The proof is within the pudding but given the other jokers who we have nearly sold to this looks like as good an option as we could have hoped for.
It’s time to draw a line and look forward. Our views on Simon Guage are not the issue now. Let’s get this deal done and look forward to the next chapter, and above all concentrating on the football | | | |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 11:17 - Mar 1 with 2339 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 10:40 - Mar 1 by wozzrafc |
He is from Biggleswade but move to Rochdale years ago.
how we got here has been covered on numerous threads and it won’t change the fact that we now face a decision none of us wanted.
However if we had to choose the profile from a type of investor we would want I think one which has a background of sports club ownership and player development would be pretty much at the e top of our list, along with no red flags during due diligence, I’m sure the trust will continue its work there and will report back if there are. The fact they spoke about covering the cost of keeping the academy going to the tune of £400k should be seen as a positive.
Time is not something that we have. The proof is within the pudding but given the other jokers who we have nearly sold to this looks like as good an option as we could have hoped for.
It’s time to draw a line and look forward. Our views on Simon Guage are not the issue now. Let’s get this deal done and look forward to the next chapter, and above all concentrating on the football |
Last night was great.
For me it drew a line under a freefall process that started 2018 and removed the previous 12 years of stability the club had since 2006 and which had generated in its most successful ever period, possibly that I will see in my remaining lifetime.
In six years (Feb 18 to Feb 24) I think I am right in saying we have had:
* 4 Chairman
* 5 Managers
* 10 different directors, in addition to those 4 who are Chairman, 14 in total
* EFL sanctions
* 2 relegations
That's no way to run a professional football club if you expect some success.
2019 also saw the stopping of the one thing that we have been good at over the years and that is money going into the club for shares and not to individuals via private transactions. There are some individuals who have done personally very well out of RAFC since 2019, to the detriment of the club.
I do genuinely think that Covid saved us as it brought to light all of the things that made quite a wide group of different people sceptical to an EGM motion that was initially proposed for March 2020 but could not be heard because of pandemic.
We had two lucky cup draws that put enough money into the club just before the pandemic hit that we had something to cling on to.
Yesterday's announcement breathes new hope for stability and structure, for the club and for the town. Simon Gauge, Richard Knight, Tony Pockney, Guy Courtney, Jamie Sarsfield and Jan Wormald all put their heads and money into the club when the boots were properly flying in.
The phrase last night was about 2021 and "buying time" - its taken 3 years.
Credit too to Murray Knight and to the Trust that sounded the alarm nationally with #upthedalenotforsale. I think Simon said last night that the Trust Director faced all of the same personal liability issues from the hostile takeover just by being on the Board. That cannot have been fun.
And the last word for Jim McNulty. I'm still not won over by the style of play but there can be no arguing that he cares deeply, he wants his teams to care and that he want people to work hard.
I hope that in the remaining weeks of this season he tells the players to have a proper go like December 2006 because we don't expect to make the playoffs and make watching Rochdale fun again and that he takes more direct questions in interviews because he dealt with all of last night's with aplomb.
The next chapter will hopefully be exciting for the club and support the town. |  |
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 11:56 - Mar 1 with 2194 views | judd |
I just wanted to clarify a point made during last night's upbeat forum, and in no way wishing to detract from the positivity. It was such a relief to see Simon in such a relaxed and humorous mood, too.
It was said the the Trust had carried out due diligence on the investors who have signed the LOI.
Due diligence was carried out at a very top level on a named individual who I have not connected with this outfit so far, and not on the organisation, as I was not provided with their name. |  |
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 12:01 - Mar 1 with 2145 views | 100notout |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 07:55 - Mar 1 by TalkingSutty |
Simon Gauge is no better than any of us, if that's what you are suggesting. He hasn't just arrived in Rochdale I don't think, somebody said he's from the Luton area..give me Rochdale any day. It seems that this was the only option open to the Chairman but I would still like it confirming from the Trust Board rep that all other options were properly explored in a effort to avoid a significant amount of fans and shareholders having to vote through the motions at the EGM. Only Gauge and those in the Boardroom will know tge answer to that. If that's the case then yes, history could be kind should this deal go through. If it doesn't I'm hoping he hasn't burned bridges with others who might have been deemed suitable. |
One observation from me from last night.
I may be way off the mark but it seemed to me that Messrs Pockney, Guage and Knight appeared considerably relaxed with writing off the value of their shareholding. Actually scrub "value" and replace it with cost - i.e. collectively as at Jun 2022 they held 63000 shares costing £126k. In Jun 2023, between them they had purchased another 143207 shares (presumably at £2.35) costing £334K. In total £460k.
You can add to that the shareholdings of Jamie Sarsfield, Jan Wormald and Guy Courtney (collectively 128839 as at Jun 2023) which I calculate cost them c£290k.
So between the 6 of them they are writing off £750k. Is that right? Or does a proposed "deal" compensate some or all of this?
Actually thinking about it, if they are being compensated in preference to other shareholders (think The Trust and Andrew Kelly for example) then that would be at best immoral and most likely illegal so it must be the former and they are happy to write off £750k?
If that is the case they must be applauded | |
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 12:02 - Mar 1 with 2140 views | tony_roch975 |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 11:56 - Mar 1 by judd |
I just wanted to clarify a point made during last night's upbeat forum, and in no way wishing to detract from the positivity. It was such a relief to see Simon in such a relaxed and humorous mood, too.
It was said the the Trust had carried out due diligence on the investors who have signed the LOI.
Due diligence was carried out at a very top level on a named individual who I have not connected with this outfit so far, and not on the organisation, as I was not provided with their name. |
Important and needs clarification from the Trust - will they be carrying out due diligence on WSH and the individuals named in JumeriahDale's post on the WSH thread? | |
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 12:03 - Mar 1 with 2127 views | judd |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 12:02 - Mar 1 by tony_roch975 |
Important and needs clarification from the Trust - will they be carrying out due diligence on WSH and the individuals named in JumeriahDale's post on the WSH thread? |
Yes. It is great information. | |
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 12:21 - Mar 1 with 2009 views | DaleiLama |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 10:42 - Mar 1 by TalkingSutty |
Not sure why you are giving these half wits any oxygen. They are a tiny minority of 'fans'. I've never seen anything like that on this forum. Plenty of criticism and i think most of it is fair when you look at the implosion of the club/ decision making etc but too many people interpret criticism as hate when it isn't. I've never heard vitriol and chanting aimed at the Chairman during games and he walks around the bars pre match without being verbally harassed. I view him as a fella who didn't think it through when he took on the Chairman role and has had to keep ploughing money in to try to keep it going but also to find a way of recouping his and the Directors outlay. In hindsight he wouldn't have done it but it was his decision. I hope he is able to step back and just turn up as a fan on matchdays and enjoy himself, leave others to run their club. |
Every club has its morons TS - I wasn't giving them oxygen - just giving the current status quo context. This forum represents probably <10% of the fanbase and even less regular Dale fans who come into contact as quite a few exiles post on here too. Abuse matters. It affects people. It's why hate crime legislation has been introduced for extreme cases.
Simon admitted publicly he wouldn't have stepped in had he known what he knows now. With respect, you have thrown nothing but shade the way of the BoD from as long as you started posting again. Some of it has certainly been deserved, but you have gone the extra mile on several occasions in what seemed like a personal vendetta. It's not so long ago since you were advocating "properly reaching out to RMBC and appeal to local businesses and businessmen to help save our Club". I hope you got from last night how many people GD and SG have spoken to, including the council, which washed its hands of RAFC. I am not trying to argue with you for arguing's sake - that's not my bag - I have neither the time nor the energy, but when you said he's from Luton, I realised just how much you disliked him. As for "leaving others to run their club", well ..............
Anyway, it's all opinions, and likely going to be water under the bridge soon, as I would imagine a new board will eventually be established to run the club, with the possible departure of Simon sooner or later. |  |
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 13:44 - Mar 1 with 1788 views | TalkingSutty |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 12:21 - Mar 1 by DaleiLama |
Every club has its morons TS - I wasn't giving them oxygen - just giving the current status quo context. This forum represents probably <10% of the fanbase and even less regular Dale fans who come into contact as quite a few exiles post on here too. Abuse matters. It affects people. It's why hate crime legislation has been introduced for extreme cases.
Simon admitted publicly he wouldn't have stepped in had he known what he knows now. With respect, you have thrown nothing but shade the way of the BoD from as long as you started posting again. Some of it has certainly been deserved, but you have gone the extra mile on several occasions in what seemed like a personal vendetta. It's not so long ago since you were advocating "properly reaching out to RMBC and appeal to local businesses and businessmen to help save our Club". I hope you got from last night how many people GD and SG have spoken to, including the council, which washed its hands of RAFC. I am not trying to argue with you for arguing's sake - that's not my bag - I have neither the time nor the energy, but when you said he's from Luton, I realised just how much you disliked him. As for "leaving others to run their club", well ..............
Anyway, it's all opinions, and likely going to be water under the bridge soon, as I would imagine a new board will eventually be established to run the club, with the possible departure of Simon sooner or later. |
Well it will be up to the investors to run their club i would imagine and not Simon Gauges responsibility. It will be their club won't it?
Yes, I've been consistent with throwing shade in the direction of the BOD because like everybody else I've seen some of the daft decisions they've made, false promises regarding the financial health of the club, lip service paid to the Trust and the fanbase and the club go down veey quickly. It's not been a personal vendetta it's been a realisation that the BOD isn't fit for purpose ( my opinion)..it's not their fault, they were parachuted in and very few of them have absolutely no experience of running a football club. I still have no faith that all avenues have been fully explored before the EGM vote and when there's money involved then i won't just take people at their word, whether that be the Chairman or anybody else.
For the club to take the next step, I'd like to see a completely new BODs put in place by the investors and see the club tap into their expertise that the Chairman has identified. How many potential investors have the Trust met up with over the last couple of weeks because apparently there has been plenty of interest. That's the type of thing that as trust members and shareholders we should be aware of because at the end of the day the fan base purchased the Trust shares. I'm guilty of asking questions and not accepting things at face value, i think that's what we all should do as fans and I certainly don't have a personal vendetta in respect of the Chairman and the Directors. If you want to accuse me of that then that's up to you. For all their perceived failings all of those will pale into insignificance if they have finally struck gold with these investors and that will be a great legacy for all of them. I like the look of the potential American investors, they seem like very decent people, fingers crossed. [Post edited 1 Mar 13:52]
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 14:08 - Mar 1 with 1697 views | NorthernDale |
If the takeover is completed, hopefully it will bring a degree of stability to the club and the club can move forward.
The are bigger questions going forward for the whole of the footballing community, we have a number of clubs with financial concerns, like Morecambe (who like us may be close to be taken over), Salford needing investment, Reading being deducted more points due to financial issues, Accrington's chairman stopping his financial support and creating a large financial black hole in their books, this is besides Torquay going into administration and Kings Lynn like us, may not see the season out. Is this the tip of the iceberg for football and will we see more clubs revealing financial pressures on their clubs, which is worrying. | | | |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 14:35 - Mar 1 with 1586 views | TalkingSutty |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 14:08 - Mar 1 by NorthernDale |
If the takeover is completed, hopefully it will bring a degree of stability to the club and the club can move forward.
The are bigger questions going forward for the whole of the footballing community, we have a number of clubs with financial concerns, like Morecambe (who like us may be close to be taken over), Salford needing investment, Reading being deducted more points due to financial issues, Accrington's chairman stopping his financial support and creating a large financial black hole in their books, this is besides Torquay going into administration and Kings Lynn like us, may not see the season out. Is this the tip of the iceberg for football and will we see more clubs revealing financial pressures on their clubs, which is worrying. |
Regarding your first paragraph, i will give those in the Boardroom credit for appointing McNulty, he wasn't a popular choice but he's doing a great job. Bringing in the recruitment company was also a good idea. I actually think that if we can keep the majority of this squad together it won't need major recruitment to make us a force to be reckoned with. Maybe bring in four or five quality signings and have some luck with injuries, i would fancy us to challenge the play offs at least. We have the foundations of a solid squad. [Post edited 1 Mar 14:36]
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 14:38 - Mar 1 with 1574 views | D_Alien |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 14:35 - Mar 1 by TalkingSutty |
Regarding your first paragraph, i will give those in the Boardroom credit for appointing McNulty, he wasn't a popular choice but he's doing a great job. Bringing in the recruitment company was also a good idea. I actually think that if we can keep the majority of this squad together it won't need major recruitment to make us a force to be reckoned with. Maybe bring in four or five quality signings and have some luck with injuries, i would fancy us to challenge the play offs at least. We have the foundations of a solid squad. [Post edited 1 Mar 14:36]
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Yep, it's better than we think, and much better than a squalid sod [Post edited 1 Mar 14:38]
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 14:58 - Mar 1 with 1476 views | Rodingdale |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 14:35 - Mar 1 by TalkingSutty |
Regarding your first paragraph, i will give those in the Boardroom credit for appointing McNulty, he wasn't a popular choice but he's doing a great job. Bringing in the recruitment company was also a good idea. I actually think that if we can keep the majority of this squad together it won't need major recruitment to make us a force to be reckoned with. Maybe bring in four or five quality signings and have some luck with injuries, i would fancy us to challenge the play offs at least. We have the foundations of a solid squad. [Post edited 1 Mar 14:36]
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The discussion on loans was informative. We are quite exposed on loans, which is quite unsettling, as we’ve seen this season. As Jim said with more certainty at the start of the season he/we should be in a stronger position. Having some financial certainty will help securing better loanees, I’m assuming we’ll need some. Oh and we could really could do to sign Hayes - we are so much better with him in the side! | | | |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 15:15 - Mar 1 with 1396 views | Dale69er |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 06:02 - Feb 29 by 100569 |
It was explained at the meeting last Sunday that this was purely a cost cutting exercise thereby saving the club in excess of £25000. |
As far as I'm aware, the cost saving won't be "in excess of £25000". Although that is the figure quoted in the accounts, I raised it at the AGM as to why it was more than double the previous year's figure. The answer given (by Tony Pockney if memory serves) was that WMG had undertaken additional one-off audit work
How much the saving will be depends on how much the previous year's fee £10,525 has been increased. This is one of teh questions the Trust has b put to the BoD |  | | |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 15:21 - Mar 1 with 1367 views | Dale69er |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 09:37 - Feb 29 by Mundell |
You’re absolutely right D Alien. Resolution 5 is absolutely bonkers in the circumstances. Why on earth would you want to give away control and then immediately undermine the rigour and reliability of financial information? If anything, existing shareholders should be trying to move in the opposite direction. It is at best muddled thinking and it certainly doesn’t inspire confidence. Is it a precondition for a sale?!! [Post edited 29 Feb 9:38]
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Agree it is bonkers, but it was mentioned at the AGM that an EGM would be called to remove the need for an auditor.
I'm assuming that at that stage there were no potential investors etc in the wings, so it was a purely cost saving measure.
Excuse me for being naive! | | | |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 03:03 - Mar 2 with 986 views | nordenblue |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 10:29 - Mar 1 by TalkingSutty |
Sorry, you misinterpreted my reply to your post. I'm not suggesting that the Chairman thinks he is better than people from Rochdale, it was yourself who seemed to indicate that in your post. Apologies if i misinterpreted that. Generation's of fans have kept this club going throughout its history, Cloughie dedicated his life and estate to it. The majority are Rochdalians but obviously what Simon and the Directors put into the club is a fantastic gesture. Collectively the value of the fans shares is about to disappear, and that's a magnificent gesture and combined it's a awful lot of money the shareholders/ Trust members/ fans are writing off. That's something that i haven't seen mentioned in all of this, some fans stand to lose thousands of pounds and it's a situation that they have very little say in. As I said, if all options have been properly explored by the Chairman and approving the motions at the EGM was the only choice then fair enough. [Post edited 1 Mar 10:44]
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I'm not saying Gauge is better than anyone I'm just shining some light on the fact he's gone above and beyond what literally all the rest of us have done purely by the amount hes invested just to keep the club operating, I'd imagine resulting at a fairly large loss for him long term, for that alone he deserves a shit load of credit.
His shortfalls in day to day operating can be discussed till the end of time that's a totally different topic though, and rightly he's been called out on that numerous times already. | | | |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 06:22 - Mar 2 with 915 views | TalkingSutty |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 03:03 - Mar 2 by nordenblue |
I'm not saying Gauge is better than anyone I'm just shining some light on the fact he's gone above and beyond what literally all the rest of us have done purely by the amount hes invested just to keep the club operating, I'd imagine resulting at a fairly large loss for him long term, for that alone he deserves a shit load of credit.
His shortfalls in day to day operating can be discussed till the end of time that's a totally different topic though, and rightly he's been called out on that numerous times already. |
Yes, he is deserving of a lot of credit for the money he's put into the club, time will tell regarding whether he recoups his money or not. I think he will. He actually stated at the forum that there are negotiations for money to be recouped in some way. Maybe if the investors decide to cash in on their bargain £2 million purchase further down the line? Remember they will sell the club to a person of their choosing and not ours.
None of the fans who bought their shares and also bought the Trust shares will recoup anything. Fans who all their life have stumped up cash to keep the club going, generations before them also. My family have four generations of Dale fans, my grandad, dad, myself and my son. I'm sure there are many others also who can make the same claim.
It doesn't sit well with me that we have come to the point were next week we are going to have to vote to hand over the club to outside investors. I also can't be sure what other options potential investors have brought to the table, none of us can and I'm sorry I refuse to just take the Chairman and his fellow Directors at their word. This is a investor of his own choosing, if the Trust have been invited in on negotiations with all the recent ones then i would be amazed. In fact, maybe the Trust Director could give full clarity on that and if not, why not? A question that should have been asked at the forum in hindsight. I would still like to see the EGM cancelled next week to give the Trust time to fully consider all other options on the table. It's being rushed through for a reason and the deadlines set mean it's impossible for due diligence to be done properly on other interested parties.
I keep changing my mind but also keep coming back to the fact that as a Trust member and shareholders we have been given no information on other potential investors and because of that I'm wondering if the Trust have been hamstrung by the BOD and blinded to the fact that they represent their members who own those Trust shares. I remember Forever Bury handing over their shares to the club, it contributed to killing the club and they were never forgiven. I view this as a blind vote because i dont think the Trust have been given time to do their own due diligence on other investors, if they have then it would be easy to put out a statement to that effect. Do I smell a rat, yes i do and i think this investor is the one that will protect the BOD financial outlay, the trade off being the investor gets the club lock, stock and barrel for a ridiculously low price. [Post edited 2 Mar 8:14]
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 07:34 - Mar 2 with 809 views | Sandyman |
Who else is going to buy out / invest to that level in RAFC? Directors over decades have been looking round and found no-one suitable. Remember Morton House, Lawrance, the "Black Dog" chancers, even Keytech! Now, we have a chance to get that investment over the line with the best sounding organisation to yet approach the club.
We're told the cash has almost run out. Who is going to plug that gap while the further due diligence on other offers you want is carried out? Due diligence most likely has been done on them already.
"Can't have it all ways" said yer mam or nan when whatever was on offer didn't meet one's ideal requirements. My irrelevant, small shareholding is voting in favour of the resolutions next Thursday. The larger shareholders will call the tune should poll votes ensue. Unless someone is going to burst through the turnstiles with hundreds of thousands of pounds to keep us going in the short term (as the Chairman has), there isn't a realistic alternative. |  | | |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 07:43 - Mar 2 with 785 views | TalkingSutty |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 07:34 - Mar 2 by Sandyman |
Who else is going to buy out / invest to that level in RAFC? Directors over decades have been looking round and found no-one suitable. Remember Morton House, Lawrance, the "Black Dog" chancers, even Keytech! Now, we have a chance to get that investment over the line with the best sounding organisation to yet approach the club.
We're told the cash has almost run out. Who is going to plug that gap while the further due diligence on other offers you want is carried out? Due diligence most likely has been done on them already.
"Can't have it all ways" said yer mam or nan when whatever was on offer didn't meet one's ideal requirements. My irrelevant, small shareholding is voting in favour of the resolutions next Thursday. The larger shareholders will call the tune should poll votes ensue. Unless someone is going to burst through the turnstiles with hundreds of thousands of pounds to keep us going in the short term (as the Chairman has), there isn't a realistic alternative. |
Well other investors have come forward, we were told that last week.We've been told a lot of things by numerous people over the last few years but it transpired that most of it wasn't true. Maybe a potential investor might agree to plug that gap in order to buy some time because Gauge has stipulated numerous times that he's not putting anymore into the club after the end of this month. The clubs not going to be liquidated if we take another month to explore all options, nobody is going to let that happen to a asset rich club with potential investors lined up. The council won't sit back and let that happen for a start, irrespective of what some suggest..lose the football and rugby club for the sake of covering a one or two months shortfall, there would be a National outcry for a start. The end of March deadline is set to create panic and the opposite is now needed, clear heads, especially if there are better alternatives to the one that Gauge has presented us with. [Post edited 2 Mar 7:54]
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 07:48 - Mar 2 with 759 views | D_Alien |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 06:22 - Mar 2 by TalkingSutty |
Yes, he is deserving of a lot of credit for the money he's put into the club, time will tell regarding whether he recoups his money or not. I think he will. He actually stated at the forum that there are negotiations for money to be recouped in some way. Maybe if the investors decide to cash in on their bargain £2 million purchase further down the line? Remember they will sell the club to a person of their choosing and not ours.
None of the fans who bought their shares and also bought the Trust shares will recoup anything. Fans who all their life have stumped up cash to keep the club going, generations before them also. My family have four generations of Dale fans, my grandad, dad, myself and my son. I'm sure there are many others also who can make the same claim.
It doesn't sit well with me that we have come to the point were next week we are going to have to vote to hand over the club to outside investors. I also can't be sure what other options potential investors have brought to the table, none of us can and I'm sorry I refuse to just take the Chairman and his fellow Directors at their word. This is a investor of his own choosing, if the Trust have been invited in on negotiations with all the recent ones then i would be amazed. In fact, maybe the Trust Director could give full clarity on that and if not, why not? A question that should have been asked at the forum in hindsight. I would still like to see the EGM cancelled next week to give the Trust time to fully consider all other options on the table. It's being rushed through for a reason and the deadlines set mean it's impossible for due diligence to be done properly on other interested parties.
I keep changing my mind but also keep coming back to the fact that as a Trust member and shareholders we have been given no information on other potential investors and because of that I'm wondering if the Trust have been hamstrung by the BOD and blinded to the fact that they represent their members who own those Trust shares. I remember Forever Bury handing over their shares to the club, it contributed to killing the club and they were never forgiven. I view this as a blind vote because i dont think the Trust have been given time to do their own due diligence on other investors, if they have then it would be easy to put out a statement to that effect. Do I smell a rat, yes i do and i think this investor is the one that will protect the BOD financial outlay, the trade off being the investor gets the club lock, stock and barrel for a ridiculously low price. [Post edited 2 Mar 8:14]
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You've every right to be concerned and with good people such as yourself and plenty of other Daleys, we won't cease to be vigilant
I've argued before that the Trust rep on the board suits the BoD, perhaps even more than the Trust, by keeping the Trust in a box. Were it not for one individual i'd have no faith in the Trust at all. If said individual wasn't back "on board" i suspect Trust membership would've fallen through the floor at renewal time. Having said that, it's a burden to put that on one individual. Seems like Murray has managed to smooth things over and he probably needed to, in order for his own role not to become too overwhelming
However, i've cast my Trust vote, to pass the first four resolutions but not the last. Audit should be continued and as others have pointed may, should be seen as being more necessary than ever under new ownership. If WSH haven't set removal of audit as a precondition for investment, they can afford to continue paying it without it being an issue. The one thing all shareholders will have left is at least sight of accounts
I don't think the EGM should be delayed, and i'll also vote as an individual shareholder along the same lines. Everyone will do what they think is right
I mentioned good individuals, but there's not good individuals too. This forum can get very heated at times, but that's where it should stay; anyone taking it beyond needs to think more than twice [Post edited 2 Mar 7:59]
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| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 08:19 - Mar 2 with 697 views | nordenblue |
| Fans' Forum Tomorrow on 06:22 - Mar 2 by TalkingSutty |
Yes, he is deserving of a lot of credit for the money he's put into the club, time will tell regarding whether he recoups his money or not. I think he will. He actually stated at the forum that there are negotiations for money to be recouped in some way. Maybe if the investors decide to cash in on their bargain £2 million purchase further down the line? Remember they will sell the club to a person of their choosing and not ours.
None of the fans who bought their shares and also bought the Trust shares will recoup anything. Fans who all their life have stumped up cash to keep the club going, generations before them also. My family have four generations of Dale fans, my grandad, dad, myself and my son. I'm sure there are many others also who can make the same claim.
It doesn't sit well with me that we have come to the point were next week we are going to have to vote to hand over the club to outside investors. I also can't be sure what other options potential investors have brought to the table, none of us can and I'm sorry I refuse to just take the Chairman and his fellow Directors at their word. This is a investor of his own choosing, if the Trust have been invited in on negotiations with all the recent ones then i would be amazed. In fact, maybe the Trust Director could give full clarity on that and if not, why not? A question that should have been asked at the forum in hindsight. I would still like to see the EGM cancelled next week to give the Trust time to fully consider all other options on the table. It's being rushed through for a reason and the deadlines set mean it's impossible for due diligence to be done properly on other interested parties.
I keep changing my mind but also keep coming back to the fact that as a Trust member and shareholders we have been given no information on other potential investors and because of that I'm wondering if the Trust have been hamstrung by the BOD and blinded to the fact that they represent their members who own those Trust shares. I remember Forever Bury handing over their shares to the club, it contributed to killing the club and they were never forgiven. I view this as a blind vote because i dont think the Trust have been given time to do their own due diligence on other investors, if they have then it would be easy to put out a statement to that effect. Do I smell a rat, yes i do and i think this investor is the one that will protect the BOD financial outlay, the trade off being the investor gets the club lock, stock and barrel for a ridiculously low price. [Post edited 2 Mar 8:14]
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While I share your caution I'm not quite as sceptical, only folk deep within the trust will know the full details regarding what has/hasn't been discussed regarding potential investors, that's not my place to speculate on.
This "bargain" £2 million purchase is not really a bargain from where im looking, they're buying a business that's knowingly losing money hand over fist and currently hasn't a pit to piss in, and a current chairman wanting a considerable amount of his money back, the only real way I can see that they'll make any real "profit" is if we manage to jump up the leagues, that could be 10 years down the line but again that will take a shit load of investment to stand any chance of that anyway so they're intial £2 million could well prove a drop in the ocean to what it actually takes to make us a more attractive proposition to sell on to possibly best case break even by that point.
Unless anyone can find a fan that's willing to pump thousands in a month just to stand still I'm afraid we have to be open to outside investors, there's not many other options currently on the table. [Post edited 2 Mar 8:24]
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was rude, possibly a bit direct though. These Forums are there for 2 way question and answers. Sometimes elephants in the room need raising and my point was around the Dale Trust votes prior to the new information coming to light and should it be reset as people may now have a different view / opinion after some honest truths were shared by Simon. 
