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Plagiarism 20:02 - Jul 6 with 2319 viewsROTTWEILERS

Nicked this comment from another site but thought it was bob on.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/02/specialists-warn-huge-rise-child-abu

"If you can seriously look me in the eye and tell me that lockdown was worthwhile, when the casualties of the disease have a median age of over 80 and the victims of the the policy include a nearly 15 fold increase in serious physical child abuse, you are despicable".
[Post edited 6 Jul 2020 20:07]

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Plagiarism on 20:10 - Jul 6 with 2301 viewsbasilrobbiereborn

I take the point about child abuse - though how they know is beyond me.

But the casual dismissal of the over 80s has a whiff of eugenics about it.

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Plagiarism on 20:52 - Jul 6 with 2289 viewsROTTWEILERS

I included a link re Great Ormond Street.

Bit strong using the E word around the over 80s. It is the virus killing these people, not other people although there is a strong case for establishment manslaughter.

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Plagiarism on 21:10 - Jul 6 with 2280 viewsbasilrobbiereborn

I think my point was that the societal impact of the disease should be not underplayed because of the perceived economic consequences. Once you start advancing the argument that the effect on one age group matters less than that on others you are on a slippery slope.

Interesting debate though.

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Plagiarism on 21:21 - Jul 6 with 2276 viewsROTTWEILERS

I don't see any mention of economics, Robbie. I think we are both agreed that older adults should've been afforded more safety.

Should children have been locked up - with all the deleterious effects that come with that - for a less-than negligible benefit for the older age group however?

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Plagiarism on 21:23 - Jul 6 with 2271 viewsBringBackTheRedRoom

"If you can seriously look me in the eye and tell me that lockdown was worthwhile, when the casualties of the disease have a median age of over 80"

I'm sort of with BRR on this one. Saw another article a few days ago saying something along the lines of "50% of them would have died anyway". Really? totally unprovable and quite scary. It's the sort of quote that leads to a very slippery slope.

It's one of the many reasons why I want to see an inquiry. Why wasn't more done to keep more schools open? Temporary buildings could have been put up to use as classrooms, student teachers used, and local authorities/government (use to) have plans to use buildings as temporary schools anyway.

It's not either/or, should have been both.

Bottom line and most shocking, is the real villains are the members of the families committing the abuse.

Doubt now there will be an inquiry, government doesn't seem to want one, and the opposition parties don't have the numbers to force one.

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Plagiarism on 21:24 - Jul 6 with 2268 viewsbasilrobbiereborn

That's a fair question and I don't know the answer.

I think we owe the over 80s something we don't owe others. A small number of them served in WW2. A much greater number suffered a lot of hardship because of the stand we took back then. They invested a hell of a lot in the country's long term future. They deserve to be seen as an equal part of it.
[Post edited 6 Jul 2020 21:25]

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Plagiarism on 21:27 - Jul 6 with 2263 viewsROTTWEILERS

I think it is established we all agree the older generation have not been shielded properly. But what about the kiddywinkles?

And then there is the cancer sufferers...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53300784
[Post edited 6 Jul 2020 21:34]

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Plagiarism on 21:57 - Jul 6 with 2231 viewsspudgun

First, I would dispute even the median age of 80.

I quickly googled a random death analysis (happens to be New York - but could have been any developed country/area really).

Deaths up to March 13th 2020:


Age..................Deaths...............%
0-17 ................9 ..................... 0.06
18-44............... 601.................. 3.9
45-64 ............. 3413..................22.4
65-74 ..............3788..................24.9
75+ ................7419................. 48.7

There would have had to be an awful lot of `Sir Toms` in that to have a median age of over 80, and an average of the above would be considerably less.

Second, your syllogism is based on a false premise; why should someone be `despicable` for believing what was presented as `the best scientific advice available` - all things considered?

And a reductive argument (the child abuse) to augment your claim is too simplistic and misleading.

In the fullness of time we may find that the death tolls in countries that didn`t lockdown properly were many,many more times those countries that did, and that locking down was the better strategy.

And as we have no figures for what it could have been in the UK (had we not locked down - because it obviously didn`t happen) we cannot truly answer whether it was worthwhile or not.

The increase in child abuse is sad and disturbing.

Finally the metaphoric shrug of conscience that the deaths were only of 80 somethings is heading a little too close to the Toby Young school of thought for me too.

And as for plagiarism, remember originality is only judicious imitation - I think I heard that quote from Noel Gallagher, but he probably nicked it from the Beatles....
[Post edited 6 Jul 2020 22:07]
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Plagiarism on 22:13 - Jul 6 with 2214 viewsROTTWEILERS

Nice one, spud.

I'm glad that everyone is vocal on this one as it shows that people care. You are a lockdown zealot, I am not.... We are both good machines.

Many points raised but I don't think Sweden or Japan (amongst many) are countries that haven't fared badly through not locking down. Belgium (rarely mentioned) have managed appallingly however.
[Post edited 6 Jul 2020 22:35]

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Plagiarism on 22:27 - Jul 6 with 2205 viewsspudgun

Yep, debate is good and constructive when conducted in the right manner - which it is on here.

You`re absolutely wrong in labelling me a `lockdown zealot` though, Rotts.

I hope that I am not viewed as a fanatical sort of fella, and (hopefully) tend to be more calibrated and nuanced in my views (comes with age), and certainly open to persuasion. I would say that I believe the probability is that lockdown was the better strategy, even though it was poorly handled by this abysmal government. But it is not a bridge I am prepared to die on.

In fact there are very few bridges I am prepared to die on, and I spend time on here in the hope of being educated by smarter people than me, and try not to labour entrenched views too much.

Good thread...
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Plagiarism on 22:44 - Jul 6 with 2191 viewsROTTWEILERS

Yep, good thread.

I'm drunk so am going to bed.
[Post edited 6 Jul 2020 23:08]

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