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Holloway's Post-Match Comments 20:42 - Jan 7 with 14491 viewsDWQPR


QPR boss Ian Holloway:

"That team, who haven't played before, will never be picked again. Simple as that.

"I wanted that team to fight and do it for each other. Unfortunately they couldn't do it.

"Simple things we don't do well enough as a group. It's very disappointing.

"There will be changes. You've got to get your foot in and we didn't do it well enough. Jamie Mackie did - he tackled everybody. But where's the rest? Come on.

"I've made some changes but I wanted to win and I thought that was a strong enough team."

Glad he thought it was strong enough. Playing Gladwin from the start immediately reduced us to ten men. More worrying though these comments strike me that there doesn't seem to be much redox left between the management and the players.

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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 12:32 - Jan 9 with 1665 viewsCamberleyR

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 12:18 - Jan 9 by isawqpratwcity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFL_Championship#Relegated_teams_.28from_Champions

Season Clubs
2004—05 Gillingham (50), Nottingham Forest (44), Rotherham United (29)
2005—06 Crewe Alexandra (42), Millwall (40), Brighton & Hove Albion (38)
2006—07 Southend United (42), Luton Town (40), Leeds United (36)
2007—08 Leicester City (52), Scunthorpe United (46), Colchester United (38)
2008—09 Norwich City (46), Southampton (45), Charlton Athletic (39)
2009—10 Sheffield Wednesday (47), Plymouth Argyle (41), Peterborough United (34)
2010—11 Preston North End (42), Sheffield United (42), Scunthorpe United (42)
2011—12 Portsmouth (40), Coventry City (40), Doncaster Rovers (36)
2012—13 Peterborough United (54), Wolverhampton Wanderers (51), Bristol City (41)
2013—14 Doncaster Rovers (44), Barnsley (39), Yeovil Town (37)
2014—15 Millwall (41), Wigan Athletic (39), Blackpool (26)
2015—16 Charlton Athletic (40), Milton Keynes Dons (39), Bolton Wanderers (30)


Bloody hell, that was harsh on Peterborough going down with 54 points. That must be some sort of record in the three points for a win era.

Poll: Which is the worst QPR team?

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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 12:49 - Jan 9 with 1618 viewsisawqpratwcity

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 12:29 - Jan 9 by daveB

Well yeah of course if the results continue as they are we will go down but if we had continued with the same results under JFH of 2 wins in every 12 we'd be close to going down as well. Pretty obvious that needs to improve


Look, I'm not posting this stuff because I want Olly out. I didn't think Ramsey or JFH were bad enough to be sacked so early, but I don't intend to get my Schadenfreude by seeing the same thing happen to Olly, too.

I want Olly to see the season out, regardless. Get it together? You beauty! And if he really isn't up to the job, that's just our tough luck because the club changed horses mid-stream.

But face the facts for what they are: Hasselbaink's 20 points from 16 games extrapolates to 57 points and safety.
[Post edited 9 Jan 2017 12:50]

Poll: Deaths of Thatcher and Mandela this year: Sad or Glad?

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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 12:50 - Jan 9 with 1623 viewsElHoop

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 11:48 - Jan 9 by daveB

As I said in terms of league position we are pretty much in the same position.

Some players may want to leave but if JFH had stayed then I think it's safe to say he'd have been trying to sell Sandro this window and the offer Chery has got would have seen the same outcome so again I don't think it's that different.

I think to say our chances of staying up are reduced by managerial change is a matter of opinion rather than fact, I don't think the chances have changed at all but time will tell if i'm right or not, we could easily have gone down under JFH and could do with Holloway as well and could have finished mid table under either manager as well. We'll never know how it would have turned out under JFH but I don't see our recent performances as significantly worse than they were under JFH it's pretty much the same as it's the same players so to improve it changes were going to be happen regardless of who the manager was.


But we're not where we were two months ago are we? That's what you said.

Our chances of staying up now are unlikely to be exactly the same as they were with a different manager - so either they're better or they're worse. There's lots of reasons to suppose that attitudes have changed with the change of manager. Of course the biggest problem is probably the support, including me. I didn't want to go and watch the JFH team as it was so dull and I'd just about had enough of it all. So whilst I didn't want to sack JFH, I didn't want to go either, so I don't really have any right to criticise. Others were more vocal in their dissent but there was a lot of negativity of one form or another, and more than likely not sacking JFH when we did sack him just meant that he would have been sacked again anyway by now. So JFH has gone, Holloway doesn't seem to be delivering what was promised in terms of him being an improvement upon JFH. In fact it seems as if the players have turned against Holloway when they can actually directly compare him to JFH.
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 13:11 - Jan 9 with 1582 viewsBurnleyhoop

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 12:30 - Jan 9 by fakekerby

I thought the whole point of a director of football was that the club would dictate signings, style of play, preferred formations and that managers were far more disposable and essentially would be hired on the premise that they suited the club's desired footballing requirements; therefore, you wouldn't have this cull of players every time a new manager came in, like Southampton, Watford, and others have successfully implemented.

Holloway was brought in to improve the players we had and it's taken 7 games to decide we need more new blood.

How about we appoint better coaches, or an assistant manager (like every other club in the footballing pyramid has)? Or stick with a plan, a style of play? Why did we hear constantly about high pressing, more legs in midfield, and none of it has happened? Why did we lose two great players who the fans all loved and still had plenty to offer at this level?

Why haven't Luongo, Cousins, Bidwell improved as players? Why has Shodipo gone from regular use under one manager to barely anything under the next one? Why does Perch (currently doing his best Bosingwa impression) get so much game time? Where is the consistency? Where has Polter disappeared off to, why wasn't Sylla turning up for training... this is a mid table Championship club that still seems to have players acting like spoilt Premiership primadonnas.

Except for Lee Hoos who we are lucky to have, this place is an utter shambles from top to bottom.


Well, Hoos is in charge of the entire running of the club now, including football issues. So we wait with bated breath for his (supposed) considerable boundless talents to pull the current sh#tstorm together.
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 13:35 - Jan 9 with 1535 viewsSimonJames

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 12:13 - Jan 9 by isawqpratwcity

Pinner, you and I both seem to be suffering from some kind of numerical dyslexia (hopefully temporary).

Holloway's record is three wins and six losses, nine points, out of nine games (Cup excluded).

Correcting my previous post, Holloway's point-a-game is 20% worse than JFH's record this season. I take DaveB's point that we are basically at the same table position as before the change, but I am concerned that 46 points (assuming we maintain this run of results) may have seen us relegated 5 years out of the last twelve.

Edit: I just had a look at the last 12 Championship EOS tables and 46 points would have seen us safe only twice.
[Post edited 9 Jan 2017 12:35]


In fact if JFH's 1.23 points per game had continued it would have left us finishing on 57 points for the season (and presumably some measure of consistency/continuity).

Whereas in the 11 years since Olly left us, during 9 different seasons he's managed to achieve a better average in only three: Plymouth (2006-7), and Blackpool's play off seasons of 2009-10 & 2011-12.
So whilst the mood amongst fans might have improved, I'm not sure why there was ever an expectation that results would also be better.
[Post edited 9 Jan 2017 15:36]

100% of people who drink water will die.

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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 13:37 - Jan 9 with 1528 viewsdaveB

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 12:50 - Jan 9 by ElHoop

But we're not where we were two months ago are we? That's what you said.

Our chances of staying up now are unlikely to be exactly the same as they were with a different manager - so either they're better or they're worse. There's lots of reasons to suppose that attitudes have changed with the change of manager. Of course the biggest problem is probably the support, including me. I didn't want to go and watch the JFH team as it was so dull and I'd just about had enough of it all. So whilst I didn't want to sack JFH, I didn't want to go either, so I don't really have any right to criticise. Others were more vocal in their dissent but there was a lot of negativity of one form or another, and more than likely not sacking JFH when we did sack him just meant that he would have been sacked again anyway by now. So JFH has gone, Holloway doesn't seem to be delivering what was promised in terms of him being an improvement upon JFH. In fact it seems as if the players have turned against Holloway when they can actually directly compare him to JFH.


Not sure players have turned against Holloway, we did win back to back games a week ago
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 13:49 - Jan 9 with 1481 viewsisawqpratwcity

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 13:35 - Jan 9 by SimonJames

In fact if JFH's 1.23 points per game had continued it would have left us finishing on 57 points for the season (and presumably some measure of consistency/continuity).

Whereas in the 11 years since Olly left us, during 9 different seasons he's managed to achieve a better average in only three: Plymouth (2006-7), and Blackpool's play off seasons of 2009-10 & 2011-12.
So whilst the mood amongst fans might have improved, I'm not sure why there was ever an expectation that results would also be better.
[Post edited 9 Jan 2017 15:36]


I think it is reasonable to compare successive managers performance (ie, same club, similar squad, conditions, etc.) but I wouldn't compare point returns for a manager at different clubs. Too many variables.

Poll: Deaths of Thatcher and Mandela this year: Sad or Glad?

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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 14:42 - Jan 9 with 1416 viewsElHoop

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 13:37 - Jan 9 by daveB

Not sure players have turned against Holloway, we did win back to back games a week ago


We did win back to back games and most people thought that we were trying and prior to that we lost 6 on the trot without there being much fuss about non-triers, so why did Holloway publicly batter them on Saturday? It's irrational. None of us know what's really going on or what would have happened if JFH had stayed, but from the outside looking in, more players seem to want to leave and the manager is inconsistent in his responses to defeat. This does look different to how things were under the previous manager. It's pretty thin evidence but it's all we have.
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 15:34 - Jan 9 with 1356 viewsSimonJames

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 13:49 - Jan 9 by isawqpratwcity

I think it is reasonable to compare successive managers performance (ie, same club, similar squad, conditions, etc.) but I wouldn't compare point returns for a manager at different clubs. Too many variables.


Fair point.
But the reality is still that after managing at QPR (and then Plymouth), Olly's results have been inconsistent and generally not very good. So if he starts alienating his players now, I'm struggling to see what improvement (versus JFH) he's bringing to the club.

100% of people who drink water will die.

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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 15:43 - Jan 9 with 1328 viewskensalriser

He's brought no improvement, the results tell us that. The only difference is that the fans seem to prefer him and the blame has switched from manager to players.

Poll: QPR to finish 7th or Brentford to drop out of the top 6?

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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 15:52 - Jan 9 with 1308 viewsdaveB

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 14:42 - Jan 9 by ElHoop

We did win back to back games and most people thought that we were trying and prior to that we lost 6 on the trot without there being much fuss about non-triers, so why did Holloway publicly batter them on Saturday? It's irrational. None of us know what's really going on or what would have happened if JFH had stayed, but from the outside looking in, more players seem to want to leave and the manager is inconsistent in his responses to defeat. This does look different to how things were under the previous manager. It's pretty thin evidence but it's all we have.


Did he really batter them? I watched the interview on QPR player and it didn't seem that bad, just said they didn't play well
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 16:05 - Jan 9 with 1287 viewsPinnerPaul

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 15:43 - Jan 9 by kensalriser

He's brought no improvement, the results tell us that. The only difference is that the fans seem to prefer him and the blame has switched from manager to players.


Yep - spot on
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 16:58 - Jan 9 with 1220 viewsdaveB

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 15:43 - Jan 9 by kensalriser

He's brought no improvement, the results tell us that. The only difference is that the fans seem to prefer him and the blame has switched from manager to players.


Not sure fans prefer anyone these days, been calls for him to go for weeks on social media.

I think some things have improved but any manager needs time to implement their own ideas, i doubt he'll get that time though
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 17:46 - Jan 9 with 1180 viewsSimonJames

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 16:58 - Jan 9 by daveB

Not sure fans prefer anyone these days, been calls for him to go for weeks on social media.

I think some things have improved but any manager needs time to implement their own ideas, i doubt he'll get that time though


What things have improved specifically?

100% of people who drink water will die.

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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 18:05 - Jan 9 with 1145 viewsdaveB

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 17:46 - Jan 9 by SimonJames

What things have improved specifically?


I think the style of play has improved, which wasn't hard. We're a lot more attacking than we were which of course has meant we're also a lot more open but i've enjoyed games more in the last 2 months than i did before that even if results haven't been great.

Other than that he's obviously identified where he wants to improve and who he wants to get rid of so I'd judge him more at the end of the season when he has a better chance to bring his own team in. I'd love a manager to get 18 months at QPR but most are lucky if they get 2 months before being written off these days.
[Post edited 9 Jan 2017 18:06]
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 19:50 - Jan 9 with 1067 viewsterryb

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 12:13 - Jan 9 by isawqpratwcity

Pinner, you and I both seem to be suffering from some kind of numerical dyslexia (hopefully temporary).

Holloway's record is three wins and six losses, nine points, out of nine games (Cup excluded).

Correcting my previous post, Holloway's point-a-game is 20% worse than JFH's record this season. I take DaveB's point that we are basically at the same table position as before the change, but I am concerned that 46 points (assuming we maintain this run of results) may have seen us relegated 5 years out of the last twelve.

Edit: I just had a look at the last 12 Championship EOS tables and 46 points would have seen us safe only twice.
[Post edited 9 Jan 2017 12:35]


"Edit: I just had a look at the last 12 Championship EOS tables and 46 points would have seen us safe only twice."

Looking at the list you then posted, 46 points would have kept us up 7 times & in one other season would have been down to goal difference!

Unless I misread of course!
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 20:26 - Jan 9 with 1015 viewsDejR_vu

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 19:50 - Jan 9 by terryb

"Edit: I just had a look at the last 12 Championship EOS tables and 46 points would have seen us safe only twice."

Looking at the list you then posted, 46 points would have kept us up 7 times & in one other season would have been down to goal difference!

Unless I misread of course!


Those were the clubs that were relegated. To have stayed up they would have had to have secured more points than the team immediately above, who will have had higher totals.

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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 20:33 - Jan 9 with 995 viewsterryb

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 20:26 - Jan 9 by DejR_vu

Those were the clubs that were relegated. To have stayed up they would have had to have secured more points than the team immediately above, who will have had higher totals.


Perhaps, but 46 points would have avoided relegation during those seasons!

That is 50% of the time.
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 20:35 - Jan 9 with 992 viewsloneranger1

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 18:05 - Jan 9 by daveB

I think the style of play has improved, which wasn't hard. We're a lot more attacking than we were which of course has meant we're also a lot more open but i've enjoyed games more in the last 2 months than i did before that even if results haven't been great.

Other than that he's obviously identified where he wants to improve and who he wants to get rid of so I'd judge him more at the end of the season when he has a better chance to bring his own team in. I'd love a manager to get 18 months at QPR but most are lucky if they get 2 months before being written off these days.
[Post edited 9 Jan 2017 18:06]


Totally agree with you... may have missed something but I make that the first time anyone´s really talked about style of play on this thread.

I´ve been to 7 games this season and seen us win once (Norwich), was there on Saturday (unfortunately). However mediocre we´ve been, we´ve shown more attacking threat in all the Ollie games I´ve been to than we did under JFH. Which, as long as we stay up, I prefer.

Likewise, would love to have a manager for 18 months, hope Holloway just means what he says with his comments and he won´t pick that lot as an 11 again.. don´t think he really meant getting rid of everyone excluding Mackie!
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 23:22 - Jan 9 with 873 viewsisawqpratwcity

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 19:50 - Jan 9 by terryb

"Edit: I just had a look at the last 12 Championship EOS tables and 46 points would have seen us safe only twice."

Looking at the list you then posted, 46 points would have kept us up 7 times & in one other season would have been down to goal difference!

Unless I misread of course!


But when you go to the wiki table that I linked, and then click on each season in turn (the left-hand column) and look at how the league table actually finished, it potentially changes the outcome. In most of the seasons that provide the discrepancy between my original comment and my later edit, the club immediately above the relegation zone scored more than 46 points.

So how do you assess if a given number of points is going to result in relegation: if it is as bad or worse than the 22nd position, or just worse than 21st? That is a problem with hypothetically inserting an extra club into the table.

Anyway, whether 46 points is 'risky' or 'near certain relegation', it isn't good.

Poll: Deaths of Thatcher and Mandela this year: Sad or Glad?

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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 01:33 - Jan 10 with 1173 viewsisawqpratwcity

'Style of play', if not on this thread, is regularly bandied about on other threads.

Ok, some stats (all 2016-17 Championship averages) to tease out how we can measure 'attacking' or 'defensive' football, or even 'effective' football...

Hasselbaink:
Goals For: 1.06
Goals Against: 1.38
Shots For: 11.69
Shots Against: 12.81
Shots on Target For: 4.06
Shots on Target Against: 3.69
Points per Game: 1.25

Holloway:
Goals For: 0.78, down 27%
Goals Against: 1.56, up 13%
Shots For: 12.33, up 6%
Shots Against: 15.44, up 21%
Shots on Target For: 3.67, down 10%
Shots on Target Against: 6.56, up 78%
Points per Game: 1.00, down 20%

The only parameter that works for Olly there is "Shots For", and that is still the smallest change of all fields compared. That turned out a lot more grim than I was expecting.

(All data from BBC reports, my calculation by spreadsheet)
[Post edited 10 Jan 2017 1:50]

Poll: Deaths of Thatcher and Mandela this year: Sad or Glad?

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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 07:08 - Jan 10 with 1103 viewsloneranger1

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 01:33 - Jan 10 by isawqpratwcity

'Style of play', if not on this thread, is regularly bandied about on other threads.

Ok, some stats (all 2016-17 Championship averages) to tease out how we can measure 'attacking' or 'defensive' football, or even 'effective' football...

Hasselbaink:
Goals For: 1.06
Goals Against: 1.38
Shots For: 11.69
Shots Against: 12.81
Shots on Target For: 4.06
Shots on Target Against: 3.69
Points per Game: 1.25

Holloway:
Goals For: 0.78, down 27%
Goals Against: 1.56, up 13%
Shots For: 12.33, up 6%
Shots Against: 15.44, up 21%
Shots on Target For: 3.67, down 10%
Shots on Target Against: 6.56, up 78%
Points per Game: 1.00, down 20%

The only parameter that works for Olly there is "Shots For", and that is still the smallest change of all fields compared. That turned out a lot more grim than I was expecting.

(All data from BBC reports, my calculation by spreadsheet)
[Post edited 10 Jan 2017 1:50]


Yeah... that didn't make nice reading I have to say
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 09:54 - Jan 10 with 1056 viewsPinnerPaul

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 07:08 - Jan 10 by loneranger1

Yeah... that didn't make nice reading I have to say


but not unexpected.
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 10:06 - Jan 10 with 1034 viewsdaveB

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 01:33 - Jan 10 by isawqpratwcity

'Style of play', if not on this thread, is regularly bandied about on other threads.

Ok, some stats (all 2016-17 Championship averages) to tease out how we can measure 'attacking' or 'defensive' football, or even 'effective' football...

Hasselbaink:
Goals For: 1.06
Goals Against: 1.38
Shots For: 11.69
Shots Against: 12.81
Shots on Target For: 4.06
Shots on Target Against: 3.69
Points per Game: 1.25

Holloway:
Goals For: 0.78, down 27%
Goals Against: 1.56, up 13%
Shots For: 12.33, up 6%
Shots Against: 15.44, up 21%
Shots on Target For: 3.67, down 10%
Shots on Target Against: 6.56, up 78%
Points per Game: 1.00, down 20%

The only parameter that works for Olly there is "Shots For", and that is still the smallest change of all fields compared. That turned out a lot more grim than I was expecting.

(All data from BBC reports, my calculation by spreadsheet)
[Post edited 10 Jan 2017 1:50]


so are those stats done over the same number of games? If it's over the season then of course Hasselbainks stats will be better as he had 10 more games.

Really I don't care what the stats say. I'm only saying what i see and for me we are more attacking now than we were before and I've enjoyed the games more under Holloway than I did under Hasselbaink. That doesn't make him better or worse, I don;t think he's been here anywhere near long enough to make a fair comparison.
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Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 12:12 - Jan 10 with 973 viewsPinnerPaul

Holloway's Post-Match Comments on 10:06 - Jan 10 by daveB

so are those stats done over the same number of games? If it's over the season then of course Hasselbainks stats will be better as he had 10 more games.

Really I don't care what the stats say. I'm only saying what i see and for me we are more attacking now than we were before and I've enjoyed the games more under Holloway than I did under Hasselbaink. That doesn't make him better or worse, I don;t think he's been here anywhere near long enough to make a fair comparison.


Ignoring the dubious mathematical logic of your opening paragraph - Ollie had a 100% record after 1 game for example! - and the fact you want to ignore the stats because they don't back up your argument - I really can't agree the games have been more entertaining.

Of course no one enjoys losing 6 in a row, but the quality of football & match v Ipswich was dire I thought & we won!

We'll have to agree to disagree but I am really struggling to find the "improvement" you talk about under IH.
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