| Priti Patel on 22:44 - Nov 8 with 2514 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Priti Patel on 22:32 - Nov 8 by Northernr |
But people entrenching in their views, digging in and saying things they know are ridiculous because it sticks with the party line of their chosen side? Where’s that getting anybody? Just turns the whole thing into a personality contest and witch hunt.
This demonisation of people in the centre is doing my head in.
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Aren't you doing the exact thing you are whining about when you claim the centre is being demonized?
Politics is nasty I'm afraid. It isn't a new thing, it just has Twitter and Facebook now. [Post edited 8 Nov 2017 22:47]
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| Priti Patel on 22:51 - Nov 8 with 2499 views | zicoshoops |
Judge her by her actions as an MP, rather than her self important opinion of herself on the world stage.
Check out her expenses claims while an MP.
Also voted to cut £30 per week in Benefits from the most vulnerable in Society.
Just another in a long line of MP's, who quickly forget that they were elected to serve their constituents. |  | | |
| Priti Patel on 23:00 - Nov 8 with 2476 views | LazyFan |
| Priti Patel on 19:47 - Nov 8 by Northernr |
Again, exactly my point.
They've fcked up here, clearly, Patel and Johnson. But you've nailed your colours to the mast and the standard of political discourse in this country, and the US, at the moment means you'd rather say something ridiculous that makes you look wilfully stupid than say "actually, they're my party and I support them but on this occasion a couple of them have fcked up".
We saw the same with Diane Abbott during the election. Good local MP by all accounts but clearly too fcking stupid to be pitched for the higher office they wanted her in. Now people on the left should have just said "yeh, she's not quite up to this" but instead they made anybody who said "look at this fcking berk" out to be a bully and/or a racist.
As somebody who's right wing on some things (prisons, benefits) left on others (privatisation of utilities/railways, immigration) and centrist on others (Europe) I find this polarisation of the whole country, this treatment of everything as a black and white issue, this division between right and left and never the two shall meet even for a second on any issue, demoralising, dispiriting and, most importantly, entirely counter productive to the national interest.
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Isn't that what the Liberals are for? A spread of political ideology?
Also these left and centre and right views you claim you have on different subjects sound very much like a way to put out the left or the right that we saw from Blair and also Cameron.
These two by the mainstream were considered the centre way, yet in the end they have divided the country rather than uniting it. Despite having the levers of power, the press cuddled up, all the money from big business and total control over their parties with an iron fist. They still ended up splitting the country.
Blair split the left in the Labour party over his own capitalism and Iraq, to the extent he is booed at party conferences and has to use the back door if at all. Cameroon split the right of the Tories over Europe by failing to get a deal he asked the EU for and then forcing a referendum on the arrogance he would win. And is now sunning himself on holiday abroad. Totally forgotten, but of course rich like Blair. This is the sensible centralist view that a dwindling small set of people keep telling me about.
The centre view has had its way for decades now. The end result is a mess.
As a Labour voter but not a member I totally agree Diane Abbott is useless as a left wing shadow govt MP. She made the left look like loonies and almost risked the election being handed as a win to useless May. Most of us on the left do not think Abbot is fit to hold cabinet office.
I will also say that I do not think Patel is useless if your a Tory. This is what the Tories want their people to be doing. The fact she did not clear it, is what us non-Tories are saying is wrong. But most Tories will be okay with it.
I also don't like Corbyns support of Hamas or Sien Fienn. He has said he has dropped his support for them. I think he should go further and say it was a past error of judgement and apologise totally.
Also a lot has been written about him in the press that is just plain wrong. For example when he said he would have Women only carriages on the Tube. This was a lie. He was asked "would you look at Women only carriages on the tube?" and he replied "we shall look at it". That's all, no commitment at all. Which is what you would expect a ANY seasoned clever politician to say. But the media lied and said he had stated it. This is why he does not talk to them in the street, as they lie about what he says all the time. Private Eye did a piece on it once.
If you listen to what he ACTUALLY says most but not all the time, he is correct. Where as if you listen to May, she is all over the place.
Corbyns real problem is that the Party loves him, but the majority of MP's are rebel centre Blairites who hate him. Which is why he must rely on people like Abbot.... that is for now. Better MP’s democratically selected by the party membership are coming through and his policies are mostly, not all, but mostly are great for the left. The country is seeing this too.
On another note, here is a great lie by the centrist view.
That the Labour Party has been infiltrated on mass by loony lefties. Well as the membership has risen by 250K+ or more, one has to question where all these loony lefties have come from?
You see I would say that Socialist Whatever and Socialist Party Whatever probably could only amass 10K between them. Thats how pitiful the loony left really are. They are as they should be a non-entity.
Thus one can only conclude that the majority of these so called hard lefties are in fact normal people who support the policies of Corbyn. But your centrist elite don’t like that and so, called great "Mr Fixer” like Watson keep stating that the party has been infiltrated. And just like you say the parties never own up to their own mess. What about the centrists owning up that the people of Britain have woken up and do not want this centre rubbish any more?
Can we have Watson resign after he told Corbyn he should go right before an election?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz [Post edited 8 Nov 2017 23:03]
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| Priti Patel on 23:05 - Nov 8 with 2465 views | Northernr |
| Priti Patel on 22:44 - Nov 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Aren't you doing the exact thing you are whining about when you claim the centre is being demonized?
Politics is nasty I'm afraid. It isn't a new thing, it just has Twitter and Facebook now. [Post edited 8 Nov 2017 22:47]
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Yeh maybe you’re right. Doesn’t seem to be getting us very far though - shambolic right wing government propped up by backwards thinking religious crackpots and extreme left wing opposition unable to win without Scotland. Both yelling at each other. |  | | |
| Priti Patel on 23:06 - Nov 8 with 2461 views | FDC |
| Priti Patel on 22:32 - Nov 8 by Northernr |
But people entrenching in their views, digging in and saying things they know are ridiculous because it sticks with the party line of their chosen side? Where’s that getting anybody? Just turns the whole thing into a personality contest and witch hunt.
This demonisation of people in the centre is doing my head in.
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I don't think demonisation is quite right. Prominent defenders of the centre ground are getting mocked at the moment because the ideas upon which the current order was built no longer apply, and yet apparently intelligent people argue that black is white because they can't or won't see that yesterday's common sense no longer applies, making them look ridiculous at best [Post edited 8 Nov 2017 23:09]
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| Priti Patel (n/t) on 23:15 - Nov 8 with 2425 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Priti Patel on 23:05 - Nov 8 by Northernr |
Yeh maybe you’re right. Doesn’t seem to be getting us very far though - shambolic right wing government propped up by backwards thinking religious crackpots and extreme left wing opposition unable to win without Scotland. Both yelling at each other. |
It's difficult to respond to statements like 'extreme left wing' and 'can't win without Scotland' without being that person who gets on your tits.
[Post edited 8 Nov 2017 23:28]
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| Priti Patel on 23:36 - Nov 8 with 2384 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Priti Patel on 16:51 - Nov 8 by GroveR |
I agree mate. I asked a co-worker out some years ago by wà nking like a demented gibbon and flicking harry at her like Multiple Miggs in the Silence of the Lambs so imagine my shock to be told that not only was this deemed 'the wrong way' but my career suffered too. We all need a sense of perspective here. |
Yeah, but if at first you don't succeed... | | | |
| Priti Patel (n/t) on 23:42 - Nov 8 with 2372 views | Northernr |
| Priti Patel (n/t) on 23:15 - Nov 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
It's difficult to respond to statements like 'extreme left wing' and 'can't win without Scotland' without being that person who gets on your tits.
[Post edited 8 Nov 2017 23:28]
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Well it's pretty difficult to deny that the people at the top of the Labour party now are very left isn't it? We surely agree on that.
And the way our electoral system works, it's simple maths to say Labour need Scotland. As per my earlier point about people being entrenched to the point of stupidity, the people of Uxbridge and Ruislip voted for Boris Johnson - the literal embodiment of pinning a rosette on a pig and people voting for it. Without Scotland you're relying on turning a decent amount of constituencies like that red.
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| Priti Patel on 23:51 - Nov 8 with 2365 views | ted_hendrix |
| Priti Patel on 15:03 - Nov 8 by robith |
Johnson's non apology and ranting partisan riposte made me stomach churn. I noted even key Tories turned on him. This isn't a party political issue - I very much doubt the Conservative government wants UK citizens to be abused overseas let alone due to the mistakes of the Foreign bloody Secretary. Yet he's there making it worse because he can't handle criticism. Won't even meet her family ffs. absolute bloody disgrace of a man |
I believe he has mumbled some kind of an apology albeit the damage has been done.
I always found Johnson to be gibbering idiot in the mould of an orangutan that made sometimes embarrassingly almost funny television so it was painfully obvious that one day he'd make Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs.
However on reading his comments on Monday about Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe I thought then as I do now, he's a thick stupid bastard who warrants a good kick in the face and a good kick up the arse. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Priti Patel on 23:55 - Nov 8 with 2356 views | CiderwithRsie |
I have to agree with every word NorthernR writs on this thread.
But one other issue: in all my life there has never been a time when the talent in all of the political parties was so bloody terrible. I didn't like Thatcher but the calibre of both her and her cabinet - Howe, Carrington, Lawson, Tebbit, Rifkind, Parkinson - was streets ahed of the current tries, even though I thought (and still do) that several of them were complete bastards. Same goes for Blair and his cabinet (Straw, Brown, Charles Clarke, Johnson, Robin Cook, Mo Mowlem). Even the LDs and Alliance had Ashdown, Clegg, Jenkins and David Owen.
Now we have Boris Johnson - Boris fooking Johnson - as Foreign Secretary. Why don't we just send a letter to the UN saying "Hi everyone, we've given up"? And Bernard Jenkins (Tory MP) was on the radio this morning defending Patel on the basis that you can't expect cabinet minsters to actually be competent. WTF?!? (A bloody stupid line to take anyway since absolutely everyone knew she was toast 24 hours ago. But since she was pro-Brexit he had to feed it through that prism and defend her. God help us.)
Tony Benn was bloody disastrous as a Labour politician in the 80s but the next Prime Minister of this country is going to be a bloke who looks up to him.God help us on that too. | | | |
| Priti Patel on 00:20 - Nov 9 with 2325 views | PunteR |
| Priti Patel on 23:55 - Nov 8 by CiderwithRsie |
I have to agree with every word NorthernR writs on this thread.
But one other issue: in all my life there has never been a time when the talent in all of the political parties was so bloody terrible. I didn't like Thatcher but the calibre of both her and her cabinet - Howe, Carrington, Lawson, Tebbit, Rifkind, Parkinson - was streets ahed of the current tries, even though I thought (and still do) that several of them were complete bastards. Same goes for Blair and his cabinet (Straw, Brown, Charles Clarke, Johnson, Robin Cook, Mo Mowlem). Even the LDs and Alliance had Ashdown, Clegg, Jenkins and David Owen.
Now we have Boris Johnson - Boris fooking Johnson - as Foreign Secretary. Why don't we just send a letter to the UN saying "Hi everyone, we've given up"? And Bernard Jenkins (Tory MP) was on the radio this morning defending Patel on the basis that you can't expect cabinet minsters to actually be competent. WTF?!? (A bloody stupid line to take anyway since absolutely everyone knew she was toast 24 hours ago. But since she was pro-Brexit he had to feed it through that prism and defend her. God help us.)
Tony Benn was bloody disastrous as a Labour politician in the 80s but the next Prime Minister of this country is going to be a bloke who looks up to him.God help us on that too. |
God will sort it out.
In fact you need just as much faith in god sorting everything out as you do a political party.
I vote for god |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Priti Patel (n/t) on 02:20 - Nov 9 with 2255 views | LazyFan |
| Priti Patel (n/t) on 23:42 - Nov 8 by Northernr |
Well it's pretty difficult to deny that the people at the top of the Labour party now are very left isn't it? We surely agree on that.
And the way our electoral system works, it's simple maths to say Labour need Scotland. As per my earlier point about people being entrenched to the point of stupidity, the people of Uxbridge and Ruislip voted for Boris Johnson - the literal embodiment of pinning a rosette on a pig and people voting for it. Without Scotland you're relying on turning a decent amount of constituencies like that red.
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I agree the current Labour Leadership is mildly left wing. The party is very left wing, and the MP's are mostly split between wannabe lefties and majority Blarities.
Scotland kept with the SNP as they believed Labour had no chance. Next time the Scots will think Labour does and shift from the SNP, especially as Labour will hammer the SNP on their do nothing record. The SNP are a walking UKIP. Once the referendum was done so, were they. Only the Tories kept them on life support and even then they lost to them in Scotland. The SNP are finished. Labour do need Scotland no doubt and they will get it.
Problem is they will lose those weird seats they won like Battersea and Canterbury. Those will fall back to the Tories with ease. The Tories will lose some seats to the Liberals, but not many and we shall have the same situation now, but with Labour being the biggest party but not winning outright.
At this point I doubt there will be a deal with the Liberals and there will be no SNP to have deal with. The Greens will have their 1 seat which wont be enough. So, it may in fact be worse. If that happens Corbyn will face down a leadership challenge, unless it is someone younger and more left wing than him. And we shall need another election.
After which the horror result could well be the same. And then what? I have no idea.
Does the Queen select our Govt? How does it work in continual stalemate? Does anyone know?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | |
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| Priti Patel on 05:04 - Nov 9 with 2230 views | PlanetHonneywood |
I will make this prediction now she's resigned...she'll lay low for about eight months, before returning in a junior post shortly thereafter.
I call it 'doing a Mandy' after serial c..t Peter Mandelsohn, who twice came back after serving time in the political wilderness for acts of seriously poor misjudgement; which should have seen him sent packing for good.
A shower of puss ridden sewer rats the lot of them. Wouldn't shit in their mouths if they were dying of starvation. FACT! |  |
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| Priti Patel on 05:23 - Nov 9 with 2217 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
I quite fancy her.
There I said it. | | | |
| Priti Patel on 08:16 - Nov 9 with 2153 views | MrSheen |
| Priti Patel on 05:23 - Nov 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I quite fancy her.
There I said it. |
Memberphilia - a deviant condition of advancing age, finding MPs attractive.
I have a severe form of it, Sid James Syndrome, helpless growling whenever Angela Rayner appears on my telly. |  | | |
| Priti Patel on 08:22 - Nov 9 with 2149 views | TheChef |
| Priti Patel on 22:32 - Nov 8 by FDC |
"Antifa" is the new anarchist "black bloc". Right wing fonts of knowledge used to speak with great authority about this dangerous group that had dastardly plans and were on the cusp of overthrowing society, apparently unaware that black bloc was a tactic and not an entity. Exactly the same with antifa networks - there is no Antifa group, it's just an abbreviation for antifacist, and anyone who turns up for an antifacist mobilisation to see off fash could be described as an antifa, same as anyone who wears black to evade police surveillance can be described as black bloc. |
It's all controlled opposition to keep us distracted from what's really going on.
George Soros supposedly behind a lot of this stuff.
http://21stcenturywire.com/tag/Soros/ |  |
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| Priti Patel on 08:34 - Nov 9 with 2131 views | ShotKneesHoop |
Loft For Words is required reading for anyone who wants to understand and discuss what is going on in the way our country is being run / not run. Seriously good, fair and objective posts with very little partisan "yah, boo, cripes, my party is cleaner than yours" comments.
The only other place where you stand a chance of finding out what is going on is Private Eye, all the other main stream papers are more comic than the Beano.
'Arry for Overseas Development Secretary? "'I've got a few top, top trifffikk mates who can help" [Post edited 9 Nov 2017 9:19]
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| Why does it feel like R'SWiPe is still on the books? Yer Couldn't Make It Up.Well Done Me! |
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| Priti Patel on 08:39 - Nov 9 with 2116 views | TheChef |
Bingo!
What I was thinking of is called the Horseshoe Theory apparently.
"The horseshoe theory asserts that the far left and the far right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, in fact closely resemble one another, much like the ends of a horseshoe."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory | |
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| Priti Patel on 08:52 - Nov 9 with 2104 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
By the way, in reaction to the scoffing when Labour thinks the media is biased, this is the UK’s top selling newspaper the day after the Tories are embroiled in an international scandal and ‘resignation’ of a cabinet minister:
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 8:53]
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| Priti Patel on 08:57 - Nov 9 with 2091 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Priti Patel on 08:39 - Nov 9 by TheChef |
Bingo!
What I was thinking of is called the Horseshoe Theory apparently.
"The horseshoe theory asserts that the far left and the far right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, in fact closely resemble one another, much like the ends of a horseshoe."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory |
An independent analysis of National Socialism and Communism as practiced by some post-WW2 despots might struggle to differentiate if not the objective, then certainly the methodology.
On the 'Paradise Papers' thread, I mentioned how the Russian establishment are funding both pro- and anti-Putin organisations.
If you will, it's not so much a horseshoe, for there is a gap, as it is the rounding of the circle with the minions in the middle. | |
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| Priti Patel on 09:10 - Nov 9 with 2069 views | TheChef |
| Priti Patel on 08:57 - Nov 9 by PlanetHonneywood |
An independent analysis of National Socialism and Communism as practiced by some post-WW2 despots might struggle to differentiate if not the objective, then certainly the methodology.
On the 'Paradise Papers' thread, I mentioned how the Russian establishment are funding both pro- and anti-Putin organisations.
If you will, it's not so much a horseshoe, for there is a gap, as it is the rounding of the circle with the minions in the middle. |
Yes to be fair I always thought of it as more of a circle. | |
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| Priti Patel on 09:11 - Nov 9 with 2065 views | TheChef |
| Priti Patel on 08:52 - Nov 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
By the way, in reaction to the scoffing when Labour thinks the media is biased, this is the UK’s top selling newspaper the day after the Tories are embroiled in an international scandal and ‘resignation’ of a cabinet minister:
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 8:53]
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Nothing to see here, move along...
'Pestminster'?? | |
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). I find Corbyn's position appealing because he's successfully shifted the Overton window, but nothing he's proposing would be considered particularly leftwing in much of the world outside of the UK, or even within the UK 20-odd years ago.