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Championship losses last year 17:43 - May 16 with 6952 viewsflynnbo

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7034591/Championship-clubs-co

With apologies if it has been posted before and for linking such a rag..
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Championship losses last year on 17:51 - May 16 with 5453 viewsJuzzie

Every single League club need to unite and stand firm and say "right, from now on any new contact will be basically 20% of what it's been to date".

If a player can't survive on what is still higher than a normal persons wages then the game will break itself.


But they won't.
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Championship losses last year on 17:57 - May 16 with 5438 viewsqprd

running a club in the championship is an easy way to lose money fast....

but in typical daily mail fashion, they somehow manage to grossly distort/exaggerate these figures by excluding profits from player sales....
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Championship losses last year on 18:02 - May 16 with 5413 viewsqprd

Championship losses last year on 17:51 - May 16 by Juzzie

Every single League club need to unite and stand firm and say "right, from now on any new contact will be basically 20% of what it's been to date".

If a player can't survive on what is still higher than a normal persons wages then the game will break itself.


But they won't.


you couldnt do that due to contract law and competition law...

but even if you theoretically could do as you proposed, all the championship players would just go play in other leagues where the wages are higher. you dont think players like toni leister, polter, chery etc left their countries to come to qpr for any reason other than higher wages?
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Championship losses last year on 18:19 - May 16 with 5350 viewsJuzzie

Championship losses last year on 18:02 - May 16 by qprd

you couldnt do that due to contract law and competition law...

but even if you theoretically could do as you proposed, all the championship players would just go play in other leagues where the wages are higher. you dont think players like toni leister, polter, chery etc left their countries to come to qpr for any reason other than higher wages?


That's fine then, let them all go elsewhere. It just becomes a leveller and there are plenty of others who can take their place and be happy on £100,000 a year to kick a bit of leather around.
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Championship losses last year on 18:46 - May 16 with 5272 viewsRangersw12

It's a bit of a misleading headline as it doesn't take into account transfer sales
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Championship losses last year on 11:58 - May 17 with 4704 viewsTacticalR

I'm feeling a bit unsustainable.

Air hostess clique

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Championship losses last year on 13:28 - May 17 with 4577 viewsDavieQPR

Championship losses last year on 18:46 - May 16 by Rangersw12

It's a bit of a misleading headline as it doesn't take into account transfer sales


Although it gives a guideline as Player sales are not consistent. You can only sell an asset once.
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Championship losses last year on 14:48 - May 17 with 4475 viewssmegma

Championship losses last year on 13:28 - May 17 by DavieQPR

Although it gives a guideline as Player sales are not consistent. You can only sell an asset once.


But you can put in a 'sell on clause' like we did with Raheem Sterling.
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Championship losses last year on 14:53 - May 17 with 4449 viewsPlanetHonneywood

Championship losses last year on 18:02 - May 16 by qprd

you couldnt do that due to contract law and competition law...

but even if you theoretically could do as you proposed, all the championship players would just go play in other leagues where the wages are higher. you dont think players like toni leister, polter, chery etc left their countries to come to qpr for any reason other than higher wages?


Not sure I agree with your assessment.

A club is free to offer what it wants when negotiating a new or extended contract. If it decides to offer 20% less, what part of contract law is being broken? Especially if a club is operating within its own budget, and the player is free to reject the offer. Look no further than our Nedum as an example.

As for competition law, what’s your thinking here. I don’t think FFP has been successfully challenged as breaking EU competition law; which to be fair, FFP is based on a club’s overall expenditure as opposed to being salary specific. But clearly, wages and income go hand-in-hand.

Salary caps operate in the US without infringing competition and/or restraint of trade. While one could argue that a salary cap might restrain trade, but EU law also looks at whether any alleged restriction is ‘justified’ and ‘proportionate’ and balancing the books and living within your means might well be sufficient to stop offering silly money.

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Championship losses last year on 15:23 - May 17 with 4417 viewsqprd

Championship losses last year on 14:53 - May 17 by PlanetHonneywood

Not sure I agree with your assessment.

A club is free to offer what it wants when negotiating a new or extended contract. If it decides to offer 20% less, what part of contract law is being broken? Especially if a club is operating within its own budget, and the player is free to reject the offer. Look no further than our Nedum as an example.

As for competition law, what’s your thinking here. I don’t think FFP has been successfully challenged as breaking EU competition law; which to be fair, FFP is based on a club’s overall expenditure as opposed to being salary specific. But clearly, wages and income go hand-in-hand.

Salary caps operate in the US without infringing competition and/or restraint of trade. While one could argue that a salary cap might restrain trade, but EU law also looks at whether any alleged restriction is ‘justified’ and ‘proportionate’ and balancing the books and living within your means might well be sufficient to stop offering silly money.


Couple of things:

-yes, you're right on the contract law point. I missed the word "new" in "new contract", and thought he was referring to slashing the wages of existing contracts. my mistake

-Competition law prohibits employers from acting in concert to suppress the wages of their employees.

but as you've noted, FFP isnt just about costs. if youre man u and can generate a billion in revenues, you can, in theory, spend a billion on players. also, FFP isnt a hard cap on wages- rather it imposes a soft cap, whereby if you breach the rules, you're just deducted points; but you're not actually prevented from spending as much as you like on players wages. finally, since FFP has been implemented, players wages have actually managed to go up quite considerably, so im not persuaded that FFP restricts wages.

-salary caps in the US dont infringe competition law because the sports leagues were granted an explicit exemption from antitrust laws in the 1920s and then i believe the 1970s. the us sports leagues were able to successfully lobby to congress to get these laws passed.

putting aside the competition law arguments, salary caps cant work in football as it does with the american sports (nfl, mlb, etc). for the nfl, nba or mlb, america is the only country where you can play those sports and get paid really good money. if there was no salary cap, lebron would probably get $100m a year. but unfortunately for him, as there are no other competitive bball leagues where he could fetch comparable wages than what he can get in the nba, hes stuck. same with nfl (where there are no other leagues, other than canada) and baseball (other than some leagues in east asia). but with football, if english clubs imposed a salary cap, players would just go to spain italy france or germany where the clubs can still offer mental wages
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Championship losses last year on 15:35 - May 17 with 4390 viewsrsonist

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sky-bet-championship-clubs-accused-of-selling

https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/latest-owls-news/ef

Sheffield Wednesday and two other Championship clubs are believed to have followed the example of Derby County, who revealed last month that they sold Pride Park to the club’s owner Mel Morris for £80 million last year, enabling them to record a pre-tax profit of £14.6 million for the 2017-18 season. Aston Villa are understood to be considering selling Villa Park if they fail to win promotion to the Premier League in this month’s play-off final.
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Championship losses last year on 15:48 - May 17 with 4358 viewsCliveWilsonSaid

Championship losses last year on 15:35 - May 17 by rsonist

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sky-bet-championship-clubs-accused-of-selling

https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/latest-owls-news/ef

Sheffield Wednesday and two other Championship clubs are believed to have followed the example of Derby County, who revealed last month that they sold Pride Park to the club’s owner Mel Morris for £80 million last year, enabling them to record a pre-tax profit of £14.6 million for the 2017-18 season. Aston Villa are understood to be considering selling Villa Park if they fail to win promotion to the Premier League in this month’s play-off final.


Incredible really. What a fcking farce!

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Championship losses last year on 16:13 - May 17 with 4315 viewsPlanetHonneywood

Championship losses last year on 15:23 - May 17 by qprd

Couple of things:

-yes, you're right on the contract law point. I missed the word "new" in "new contract", and thought he was referring to slashing the wages of existing contracts. my mistake

-Competition law prohibits employers from acting in concert to suppress the wages of their employees.

but as you've noted, FFP isnt just about costs. if youre man u and can generate a billion in revenues, you can, in theory, spend a billion on players. also, FFP isnt a hard cap on wages- rather it imposes a soft cap, whereby if you breach the rules, you're just deducted points; but you're not actually prevented from spending as much as you like on players wages. finally, since FFP has been implemented, players wages have actually managed to go up quite considerably, so im not persuaded that FFP restricts wages.

-salary caps in the US dont infringe competition law because the sports leagues were granted an explicit exemption from antitrust laws in the 1920s and then i believe the 1970s. the us sports leagues were able to successfully lobby to congress to get these laws passed.

putting aside the competition law arguments, salary caps cant work in football as it does with the american sports (nfl, mlb, etc). for the nfl, nba or mlb, america is the only country where you can play those sports and get paid really good money. if there was no salary cap, lebron would probably get $100m a year. but unfortunately for him, as there are no other competitive bball leagues where he could fetch comparable wages than what he can get in the nba, hes stuck. same with nfl (where there are no other leagues, other than canada) and baseball (other than some leagues in east asia). but with football, if english clubs imposed a salary cap, players would just go to spain italy france or germany where the clubs can still offer mental wages


Good point regarding the applicability of salary caps to US sports.

As far as I know, FFP has yet to be challenged on the basis that it infringes European/national laws on restraint of trade/restricting the free movement of labour. Such an argument will likely be a lot harder to construct than Bosman’s. Thus, whether ‘justification’ - for FFP in this case - would be a successful defence is also hard to call.

FFP has, in effect, brought a ‘soft’ salary cap into play. I know some might think it heresy; but I think getting football clubs to be more financially responsible isn’t of itself, a bad thing! Especially given the money leaving the game in agents fees.

Further, I know of one club who spent hundreds of millions beyond their income, and they made a complete arse of it, and are pretty f....d as a result sure it’s a moot point as to what’s f....d them: FFP or financial profligacy, but we wouldn’t have been so f....d if the soppy sod who ran us into the ground, had of operated with a bit more financial common sense...which football has precious little of.

Edit: forgot to add the rugby’s have salary caps. In union, admittedly English, French leagues and some Welsh clubs (I think) but not the Scots and Irish. League the same, although that might have been subject to a challenge.
[Post edited 18 May 2019 6:48]

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Championship losses last year on 16:41 - May 17 with 4256 viewsOldPedro

Championship losses last year on 15:35 - May 17 by rsonist

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sky-bet-championship-clubs-accused-of-selling

https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/latest-owls-news/ef

Sheffield Wednesday and two other Championship clubs are believed to have followed the example of Derby County, who revealed last month that they sold Pride Park to the club’s owner Mel Morris for £80 million last year, enabling them to record a pre-tax profit of £14.6 million for the 2017-18 season. Aston Villa are understood to be considering selling Villa Park if they fail to win promotion to the Premier League in this month’s play-off final.


So does that mean Derby would have reported a loss of £65 million if they hadn't 'sold' their ground????

It will be interesting to see if the club 'buy' back the ground in a couple of years for a much lower price.

Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man

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Championship losses last year on 17:03 - May 17 with 4202 viewsMiss_Terraces

Championship losses last year on 16:41 - May 17 by OldPedro

So does that mean Derby would have reported a loss of £65 million if they hadn't 'sold' their ground????

It will be interesting to see if the club 'buy' back the ground in a couple of years for a much lower price.


They could buy back the ground, in the premier League. Where there is no ffp, then sell it again in the championship.
Of course, all above board.

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Championship losses last year on 17:45 - May 17 with 4133 viewsKonk

If I had £1bn in the bank, I would contact Fulham via an intermediary, who would meet with Tony Khan on a bench in Bishops Park. They would pass on the following instructions and then move to Montana and assume a new identify:

(1) Fulham sign Big Dan Burn

(2) Fulham sell me Big Dan Burn for £800m (Dan gets his 10%, which even if the tax man has his nibble, is still a pretty penny). As far as the authorities are concerned, I've signed Big Dan to help me out with some decorating, sorting out the garden and putting a mirror up in our downstairs loo.

(3) A week later, I release a statement, saying that Dan's not really settled into life in our house, and I loan Dan Burn back to the club that Fulham signed him from for a £500 annual fee.

(4) Fulham now have about £700m extra for Tony Khan to waste on shi t players that don't even play in positions that need attention.

I'm not a lawyer, but seeing as every other owner is charging themselves £6m for a pie and £50m to park in their own car park, I reckon this would work. This is probably full-proof, but don't blame me if you try it and it all goes tits up. And ffs, don't tell my wife.

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Championship losses last year on 18:04 - May 17 with 4086 viewsJuzzie

Championship losses last year on 17:45 - May 17 by Konk

If I had £1bn in the bank, I would contact Fulham via an intermediary, who would meet with Tony Khan on a bench in Bishops Park. They would pass on the following instructions and then move to Montana and assume a new identify:

(1) Fulham sign Big Dan Burn

(2) Fulham sell me Big Dan Burn for £800m (Dan gets his 10%, which even if the tax man has his nibble, is still a pretty penny). As far as the authorities are concerned, I've signed Big Dan to help me out with some decorating, sorting out the garden and putting a mirror up in our downstairs loo.

(3) A week later, I release a statement, saying that Dan's not really settled into life in our house, and I loan Dan Burn back to the club that Fulham signed him from for a £500 annual fee.

(4) Fulham now have about £700m extra for Tony Khan to waste on shi t players that don't even play in positions that need attention.

I'm not a lawyer, but seeing as every other owner is charging themselves £6m for a pie and £50m to park in their own car park, I reckon this would work. This is probably full-proof, but don't blame me if you try it and it all goes tits up. And ffs, don't tell my wife.


Economics explained with cows;


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Championship losses last year on 18:20 - May 17 with 4045 viewssmegma

Championship losses last year on 17:45 - May 17 by Konk

If I had £1bn in the bank, I would contact Fulham via an intermediary, who would meet with Tony Khan on a bench in Bishops Park. They would pass on the following instructions and then move to Montana and assume a new identify:

(1) Fulham sign Big Dan Burn

(2) Fulham sell me Big Dan Burn for £800m (Dan gets his 10%, which even if the tax man has his nibble, is still a pretty penny). As far as the authorities are concerned, I've signed Big Dan to help me out with some decorating, sorting out the garden and putting a mirror up in our downstairs loo.

(3) A week later, I release a statement, saying that Dan's not really settled into life in our house, and I loan Dan Burn back to the club that Fulham signed him from for a £500 annual fee.

(4) Fulham now have about £700m extra for Tony Khan to waste on shi t players that don't even play in positions that need attention.

I'm not a lawyer, but seeing as every other owner is charging themselves £6m for a pie and £50m to park in their own car park, I reckon this would work. This is probably full-proof, but don't blame me if you try it and it all goes tits up. And ffs, don't tell my wife.


Downstairs loo ??


You can take the boy out of Fulham, but you can't take the Fulham out of the boy.
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Championship losses last year on 18:24 - May 17 with 4036 viewsQPR_John

Championship losses last year on 17:03 - May 17 by Miss_Terraces

They could buy back the ground, in the premier League. Where there is no ffp, then sell it again in the championship.
Of course, all above board.


Currently buying back the ground will not be included in FFP as it is infrastructure. So this method is win win for the club. In theory a club can sell its ground to remove its debt then immediately buy it back for the same amount. There will still be the debt but it would not count against FFP
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Championship losses last year on 15:29 - May 25 with 3499 viewsrsonist

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/05/24/exclusive-middlesbrough-sue-derb

Middlesbrough have stunned Derby County by announcing their intention to sue the Championship club, days before the play-off final at Wembley.

[...]

Gibson’s attempt to force an independent inquiry of club finances was also rejected by all of the Championship clubs in another meeting last month.
[Post edited 25 May 2019 15:29]
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Championship losses last year on 15:49 - May 25 with 3460 viewsjonno

Championship losses last year on 17:03 - May 17 by Miss_Terraces

They could buy back the ground, in the premier League. Where there is no ffp, then sell it again in the championship.
Of course, all above board.


So it rather looks like we weren't "clever" enough to do something similar despite employing all the 'best legal advisors available'.
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Championship losses last year on 16:04 - May 25 with 3435 viewsEsox_Lucius

There is also the issue that the FL is essentially a Gentlemens Club and if you try to ruffle feathers they can just turn around and not offer you any fixtures against their members; something I believe happened to QPR, which was why we caved in our FFP appeal.

The grass is always greener.

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Championship losses last year on 16:16 - May 25 with 3413 viewsNed_Kennedys

Championship losses last year on 16:04 - May 25 by Esox_Lucius

There is also the issue that the FL is essentially a Gentlemens Club and if you try to ruffle feathers they can just turn around and not offer you any fixtures against their members; something I believe happened to QPR, which was why we caved in our FFP appeal.


How many times has this ever happened then?
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Championship losses last year on 22:31 - May 26 with 3016 viewsrsonist

Championship losses last year on 15:29 - May 25 by rsonist

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/05/24/exclusive-middlesbrough-sue-derb

Middlesbrough have stunned Derby County by announcing their intention to sue the Championship club, days before the play-off final at Wembley.

[...]

Gibson’s attempt to force an independent inquiry of club finances was also rejected by all of the Championship clubs in another meeting last month.
[Post edited 25 May 2019 15:29]


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/05/26/mel-morris-accuses-middlesbrough

Speaking for the first time in detail, Morris said: “I consider the timing of their action to be cynical, an open attempt to try and steal our focus ahead of a crucial game. Fortunately, we are motivated by such actions. I’ll call it out there because I think it needs calling out.

“The sale of fixed assets is allowed in the rules. In 2016 a club [Boro] got promoted who chose to sell the tax loss from the football club to the parent company, because that then makes it revenue which is a positive towards profit, to help remain within Financial Fair Play.

“When I raised that at a meeting in March, the representative from the club said it was allowed in the rules at that time. So is this! What is different? You set the mould and we copied your lead, now you’re bitching. He [Gibson] had the hypocrisy to do that.

“Even his own fans called it out on their forums and said ‘how dare we do this with our own history’. We discussed this issue again in April and there wasn’t a single vote against, including from their own club! They didn’t even vote for their own motion. It is absolutely hypocritical. I didn’t write the rules."
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Championship losses last year on 13:04 - May 27 with 2849 viewsTacticalR

@rsonist "Even his own fans called it out on their forums and said 'how dare we do this with our own history'. We discussed this issue again in April and there wasn't a single vote against, including from their own club! They didn't even vote for their own motion. It is absolutely hypocritical. I didn't write the rules."

Isn't there something strange about how these EFL votes always seem more unanimous than the votes in the North Korean Politburo?

Air hostess clique

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