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Saints At Middlesbrough The Verdict
Saints At Middlesbrough The Verdict
Monday, 23rd Apr 2012 11:21

A blow to Saints promotion hopes but hopefully only a temporary one as Saints throw away a great chance to win.

Saints couldnt have had a better start to the game, going ahead in the opening minutes and once again it was Billy Sharp who showed just why he is currently the most prolific finisher in the Championship after Rickie Lambert slid a ball across the box to him.

But from then on Saints although looking comfortable for most of the game, couldnt seem to get their game together against a Boro side who sensed they were in last chance saloon and so went for it, again it was the same old same old for Saints, who conceded two soft goals that really should have been dealt wit.

All season I have spoke about how our central defensive pairing seem to just make fatal errors in games that for the most part they have looked comfortable with, the equalising goal deep into first half injury time in many respects was a carbon copy of Pompey's second goal a few weeks back, a nothing cross in the area wasnt dealt with by Hooiveld whose poor header lacked power and distance and fell invitingly to the unmarked Bailey, whose shot wasnt the best in all fairness, Hooiveld should have easily blocked it, but he didnt and his attempt probably unsighted Davis who could do little.

Simiarly in the second half, Jutkiewics rattled Fonte who held on to his arm when he really had no need to as the ball was dropping over both their heads to Butterfield who would have swept up with no challenge, a needless free kick was conceded and Boro had won the game.

Certainly Saints had their moments, not least on 55 minutes when Lallana was brought down on thedge of the box by Hines, the Boro man had been shown a yellow card five minutes earlier and to be blunt the ref bottled showing him another when he really should have, if he had done so then the game would have swung in Saints favour, but it didnt.

It pains me to write this, especially because the same things are happening week in week out, but the fact is our central defenders are not good enough, or to put it bluntly they have flaws in their game which mean that they make mistakes at vital times, at this stage we really havent got much choice, but if we do get promoted this has to be a big area for improvement, I dont know what it is, because in the main both Fonte and Hooiveld are sound for the best part in all games, but they just have this flaw which means they lose concentration at vital moments, if each of them had done their job at these two vital times in the game, then we would have taken all three points.

But its all still in our hands, all we need to do now is beat Coventry and whatever the Hammers do wont be enough, get the job done and then we can worry about next season.

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OldRed added 12:09 - Apr 23
Our two central defenders have generally done well throughout the seasonl although I think Aaron Martin could have replaced Fonte a few games back but to be honest, the whole back four plus goalkeeper will need replacing for the Premiership for starters.
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Fordy added 12:22 - Apr 23
Mostly I agree. If Cortese hadn't made a hash of the Gorkss signing we would be champions by now.

But we must bring back Richardson and Morgan for Saturday. Butterfield is far too static, especially with Chaplow always cutting inside leaving space down the flank. Chaplow will be out but we still need Richardson back.

We definitely need Morgan back for Saturday. It's no coincidence that we have conceded a lot more goals from outside the box since he has been out. He's a much better player than Hammond anyway, but his positioning is much, much better.

We were outplayed in midfield on Saturday. Look at their first goal. For some reason Chaplow was over on the left, Cork got drawn to the right, Chaplow covered in the middle but Hammond was just drifting in no man's land ball watching and not picking up anyone. His positioning was awful. It's OK to blame the defence but we need Morgan back to marshall that space in front of the back four.

If we do go up we need to strengthen in this area and in defence.
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ThereIn76 added 12:25 - Apr 23
Boro's first goal had more to do with Chaplow than Hooiveld. The latter's header wasn't bad but Chaplow, instead of making a proper effort to block Bailey's shot, turned his back. Once the shot deflected off his leg there wasn't anything either Hooiveld or Davis could do about it.

What I couldn't understand was that Boro seemed to want it more than us. With Reading dropping points this was not only a great chance to seal promotion but also to give ourselves a decent chance of the title. We need to show Boro's level of desire on Saturday against Coventry.
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Whatsforpud added 12:26 - Apr 23
I think you'll find that there was an unfortunate deflection for their first goal. Re the second one, central defenders often seem to get away with man-handling forwards. Fonte is too often prone to do that, and paid the price here.

The midfield gave the ball away too often in the first half, allowing Middlesborough in. Also, where is the overlapping wing-back play we were so good at last season, and earlier this season? For this at least, Harding and Richardson are the better bet.
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SaintNick added 12:30 - Apr 23
Sorry therein, but Hooiveld's header was poor, he put it weakly right into the danger area, yes Chaplow turned his back, but Hooiveld didnt and could have then blocked the ball himself but had an air shot
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bstokesaint added 12:39 - Apr 23
It was a very disappointing trip, despite a very good following. I went to the game with a friend, who despite willing Saints to win, is actually a neutral. He was of the opinion that if we'd played as we did in the first half in the second then we would have come out comfortable winners. To be honest I'd say that was a fair assessment. The referee bottled was actually a very easy decision to make, and Lallana was denied a clear goal scoring opportunity and Boro were able to continue attacking at will. It was a clear turning point.

In my opinion the loss was caused by us sitting back having taken the lead. Kelvin didn't stand a chance with the first speculative effort and it appeared to take a slight delfection and the keeper was blind sided. Either way arguably if you restrict the opposition to pot shots from that position you're not defending too badly. On occasions goals will go in, after all this is the Championship and we're not playing a group of 10 year olds. The second goal was a perfectly executed free kick. Fonte was clumsy to give away a free kick from that position, but he hasn't been quite as effective generally this year and does have the tendency to give away needless free kicks.

To say that if we went up wholesale changes would be needed in defence is a bit drastic. Richardson has been brilliant for us this year and deserves his chance. He will need competition though as I'm not sure Butterfield is good enough. We will need one more centre back to complete with Jos and Fonte and probably someone to keep Fox on his toes. So not necessarily replacing what we've got but making sure that we get the best out of everyone, with decent cover. As for the keeper well, as fully deserved, Kelvin made the Championship team of the year. He's still good enough for number 1, although we need to find a capable replacement for the future as no-one knows now how Bart will recover from the Blackpool game.

I hope the lads can sort themselves out for Saturday as I think it's a game that will have to be won.
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landsdownsaint added 12:45 - Apr 23
I think we are playing with 4 players that ain't good enough,Hammond,Fox,Butterfield and Fonte.I also think Guly should play up with Lambert,I think the better the opposition the better Guly will become,he is a premiership player
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stmichael added 12:51 - Apr 23
Despite our weaknesses on Saturday the game was decided by 3 decisions from the officials.
Handball could easily have been a penalty , Ricky goal disallowed for ball out of play (it was'nt) , the clear sending off which was probably the worst piece of refereeing i have witnessed this season.
Id saints had got one of those decisons I think we win the game.
Problem is I can see the Trevor brooking inspired FA sending us another clown this weekend.
Control the controlables!!?
Well we cant control the officials.
It will be intersting to see what the ref is like tonight because there is no doubt the hirearchy would prefer WHAM in the premiership to ourselves.
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darkangelv2 added 12:53 - Apr 23
We've conceded quite a few goals from sucker punch shots taken from clearances this season. A pattern i've noticed is that most of these have been conceded when Schneiderlin is off the pitch. He tends to take up that position on the edge of the box when the ball comes across. Surely just a bit of positional training for Hammond or Cork could help solve this?

AGAIN the full backs did not block crosses (i counted one sliding block each for Fox and Butterfield). Neither seem to want to get close to their wingers and it is repeated week after week - where has this urgency that was present in league one gone? This puts our centre backs on increased pressure leading to the focus you're giving them in this write-up. They need protection from the full backs and i feel they're both letting them down at the moment.

Fox has been a huge asset with his set plays and Richardson from his open play crossing but unfortunately it seems to have unsettled our previously frugal defence. They need to step their game up BIG time in the prem (assuming we get there!).
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patred added 12:57 - Apr 23
Gorkss has been the best centre back in this division and was the catalyst for the run Reading had.
We had an opportunity to sign him, but dilly dallied.
If Gorkss had been signed we would be already up as Champions.
Our two centre backs are good Championship players and no more.
Both will have to replaced if we are to survive a season in the Premier, they will be cut to pieces.
Not only will they need replacing, we need two fullbacks that can defend.
Although it pains me to say we need to replace Kelvin. Sentiment has no place in football. Bart will never be able to cut it in the Premier.
It don't only stop there either, we need at least two more decent midfielders and a striker.
But what we don't need is to miss out on targets by dilly dallying around and letting rivals pick them up. We have to more proactive in the transfer market, or we could be back here in this division quicktime.
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simmo400 added 13:10 - Apr 23
Yes a first minute goal that should have settled us but it naver happened. Again we switched off at the end of the first half. Sharpe did score but why didnt he stop that volley for the equalizer ??? it was his man who scored so wake up Sharpe. We also let another shot hit the net but were saved by a dubious offside. Secondnd half lack of finishing probably cost us in that 20 min period when we dominated but Fonte cost us the game. His defending has been well below par and why Martin isnt playing is beyond me. Quick mention for Fox who was also out of position more times than not, his first priorty is to defend.
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stmichael added 13:11 - Apr 23
I think KD will be ok.
Think we can pick up some good premiership players from those that get relegated and those that dont make it from the play offs.
Blackurn have a couple of defenders I would take and Cardiff have Whittingham and one or 2 others for example!!!!
And I probably wouldnt say no to the GK Robinson!!
This group of players have exceeded all expectations however I am not sure you can coach concentration and the ability to be at it for 95 minutes.
Perhaps there is a reason why MOST of our players have not made it to the top level.
They often look good enough but then "bang" an avoidable goal.
Should we have walked this division given our recent wobbles or have we massively over acheived?
Lets worry about it when we get there.
Unfortunately we are one bad official away from a footballing disaster!
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131153 added 13:12 - Apr 23
Another nervy tonight tonight I guess. The sad part of Saturday was giving West Ham a chance. I felt the early goal should have settled us down but apart from the chance Chaplow missed after a patient build up pretty even until they scored.I felt a reasonable header out but just like pompey game fell straight to one of their players, the deflection in my opinion put both Davis and Hoiveld out of the game from the point of view of stopping the shot. Even then we managed to allow a "second goal" before half time and we were saved by a very tight offside decision in our favour.

As much as Fonte has tended to look a bit like an accident waiting to happen recently I would have thought on balance sticking with him for Saturday is the right decision. No question a poor decision by the Referee on Saturday in not sending their player off, he had a perfect view and very close to the incident. Difficult to believe he failed to send the player off, I know we have the benefit of some decisions (Brighton home penalty) even so pretty incomprehensible. Perhaps he was auditioning for the Premier League!!

I wouldn't mind swapping our FA Cup win at Coventry for a win on Saturday. Whilst mistakes have been made at the back throughout the season I feel that is football, it wouldn't have surprised me to hear Fergie hadn't been taken to hospital with blood pressure and hypertension problems yesterday after the Everton game. I have a feeling our greatest problem this year has been up front with the attack missing great oportunities to put the game beyond the opposition ( Lamberts miss when 1-0 up at home to Blackpool, keepers mistake almost certainly wouldn't have mattered then) Hope we get a "result" tonight if not very confident for Saturday.
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geezershoong added 13:22 - Apr 23
If we do not go up automatically, is it seriously going to be down to the fact we didn't sign Casper Gorkss?

Give over!

We should have gone for Ian Harte as well.

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Fordy added 13:27 - Apr 23
@Geezershoong Probably, yes! He was on the verge of signing for us and ultimately Warnock gave up and told him to try Reading and he went on to be probably their key player this season.

@Simmo400 I think it's a bit harsh to blame Sharp for their first goal!

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geezershoong added 13:30 - Apr 23
Nope, not buying it, that's making up lazy excuses.
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bstokesaint added 13:36 - Apr 23
Spot on Geezer. Our failure to win the league is not down to Gorkss. My Reading following mates (and there are a few of them - too many for my liking) are more upset about the Reading keeper not getting in the Championship team of the year. There's not even a mention of Gorkss! Jos has been great in defence for us this season and weighed in with some crucial goals. He's one of our better Adkins signings. As others have noted, maybe the defensive back two need some further protection from midfield.
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SaintNick50 added 14:03 - Apr 23
No one has metioned the TV curse, so I will.

2011/12 w2 d4 l4

2010/11 w1 d1 l2

relegation form

TOGETHER AS ONE!
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ExiledSupporter added 14:39 - Apr 23
Agree with this, but would also point out that we are less ruthless in front of goal than many other teams, Reading being the classic case recently -where we dominated for long periods, created chances but failed to put them away and then paid the penalty for lax defending.
The BBC stats for the M'boro game showed that we had 51% of possession yielding 12 shots with 25% on target, the opposition managed 10 shots with 40% on target. Bear in mind that M'boro have a very unimpressive scoring record and rarely get more than one goal per game recently
recently we have created lots of chances but taken relatively few while the opposition create fewer and take more eg.Reading
Not a recipe for sustained success!
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hortonsaint added 16:47 - Apr 23
Classic Nick blaming his usual favourites, yes Hooivelt's header wasn't the best but just watch Sharp, it was he who went to sleep for a split second and let Bailey get in front of him but Sharp is clearly a player you rate Nick so no blame can be apportioned to him. And to then to blame Hooiveld again for an air shot is very harsh, Chaplow turning his back in a game of such magnitude was far more disappointing. Never any mention of Fox's inability to stop crosses coming in from his side either!
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A1079 added 17:29 - Apr 23
I went to the Boro game and the build up was great, the support was great and the start was great, but then that seemed to be it. We made the same old errors, and I am tired of Fonte making the same ones. I agree it is not down to just the defence......the midfield offered very little and we really need to have a cutting edge with some clinical finishing on top of the copious amounts of possession we have. Also, when clearly Boro were on top after scoring what turned out the winner, why didn't we just try and get the ball in the box quicker. There seemed to be a lack of urgency and desire and too often I have felt disappointed and let down by the expectation. We can be great but when it matters we seem to lack that winning desire. I am not sure whether I have misread, misunderstood or a dose of paranoia but reading Lallana's summary he appears to indicate that Boro had the drive and that there support spurred them on. Is he suggesting our support was disappointing? I know there are threads about the numbers that went on Saturday but 3000 I believe is good. You have to remember the costs, the number of games etc, and it isn't a bottomless pit. Many of us would love to go to every game and I enjoy it when I do, but I have to be selective sometimes and if we do get to the premier, many games are going to be financially out of reach, so people will be even more selective of what they will see and be prepared to pay for. Just my thoughts, which people can tear to shreds now.
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SaintNick added 17:40 - Apr 23
Horton.

Yes sharp could have been faster, but he is an attacker not a defende, end of the day Hooiveld deals with the ball and the danger is cleared, and i wouldnt be writing about it in fact the more i watch it the more i feel that Hooivelds main failing was not bocking the shot, the header was just poorly directed, he makes a real girly attempt at stopping it.

There is no mention of Fox not stpping crosses because to be blunt it wasnt a problem on the day and didnt cause us any problems,
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hortonsaint added 17:51 - Apr 23
I meant during the season with Fox where it has been a problem but conveneiently overlooked by your good self! I will re-watch the attempt to stop the shot and see if it looks 'girly', but given the deflection and pace on it I'm not sure. also he had a Boro player very close to him. It's irrelevant whether Sharp is an attacker or a defender, if he is in that area of the pitch it is his job to get goal side of his man in that situation. At the time I blamed whoever it was who didn't do that job not realising it was Sharp, do you think when I watched it back I should have changed my view just because he's a forward?? In fairness I don't think he would expect that and would hold his hand up
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DJI added 19:47 - Apr 23
If you rewind your tapes back a further 20 seconds on their 1st goal, you will see that Chaplow's half-arsed attempt at a tackle resulted in him being nut-megged! From their they cross the ball high into the box where Jos headed it away. Then it's hit back in and Chaplow is now there and turns away! If Chaplow had been more committed in his initial attempt to tackle, the ball would not have got into our box!

I do agree with Nick about our general defending though and the mistakes that our central pairing seem to make (Fonte more than Jos to be fair). I cannot see why Nigel has not played Aaron more in recent games; after all, aren't we supposed to have competition for places? Fonte has never been as good this time out as last season and Aaron would at least have more desire to defend first and foremost. How will he ever gain experience if he isn't thrown in to get it?

And once again, we played a formation that restricted our use of the flanks which made is much easier for Boro to close us down and win the ball back. Adam should only come inside when an attack requires him to, otherwise he should hug the line and keep defenders guessing.

A disappointing day for me! It may still be in our hands, "control the controllable', etc. but it is slightly deflating to think that a West Ham result could see us promoted without evening kicking a ball, when we had a perfect chance on Saturday in front of our fantastic away following! Where were the leaders on that pitch to push the guys along and inject some urgency into us?
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Jesus_02 added 10:24 - Apr 24
bstokesaint: I am inclined to agree center midfield is where we are weekest. Its been a long season and Fonte is flagging a bit TBH but overall he an Jos have been a good pairing.

My worrie is that after a string of bad decisions I think Saints lost their heafds a bit. I have never seen Ricky so pissed of.

The game for me was a tale of the two free kicks. One yellow , one not, one with the saints wall being repositioned by the ref and thier player putting the ball where he wanted and Rickies, where when he struck the ball there were players about five yards from him.

Its easy to see why Saints lost concentration, they just need to ensure that they dont on Saturday
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