| Today: a bit of perspective 18:41 - Nov 7 with 10997 views | NW5Hoop |
I'm prepared to be told how wrong I am, because I've been saying this on Twitter and people have been doing so. Though I see Clive has been saying many of exactly the same things.
The first 20 minutes was good. First time I can remember applause for moves in ages. But that was it - after that, in the second half especially, we were no better than we have been for weeks, and we didn't create a single chance all game.
It's not that I expect any manager to effect a miracle in three days, but today really highlighted, for me, double standards among some of our fans. The team didn't have to play badly for Ramsey to get slated; if we won, it was despite him, if we failed to win it was because of him. His team selections, regardless of how players performed, were ripped to shreds. So, if Ramsey had announced a team with Henry at right back, with Luongo, Chery and JET all on the bench, and with Hoilett starting, he'd have had to be prepared for the crowd to turn Loftus Road into Baghdad if we didn't go four up in the first 20 minutes.
And if he'd then overseen a game in which we created no chances against a very poor team, he'd have been slaughtered. If he'd then switched to 4-4-2 for the last 20, but with a player in JET who seemed to have no idea what job he was actually meant to be doing in a 4-4-2, he'd have been slaughtered - remember Brentford?
My point is not that Warnock should be slaughtered, because he shouldn't, but that the problems in the club run a whole lot deeper than Ramsey having been running the team for 10 months.
I've had people telling me it was a distinct improvement, that we had a shape (same shape as the rest of the season, pretty much). That the defence looked sound (as it has for the last four games, by and large - you can't blame Ramsey for Onouha switching off against Brentford). That we passed well (for 20 mins, after which we started hitting the channels. In fact, I could hear Warnock shouting "Hit the long diagonals!" at one point, which doesn't sound like a man craving intricate passing).
Henry and Hoilett did both play well. But that's not the point: the point is that a lot of Rangers fans decided they were an absolute crock of it and should never be near the team. Ramsey was an idiot for even playing Henry. Yet Warnock plays Henry, out of position, and not a whisper …
You can't have it both ways. [Post edited 7 Nov 2015 18:58]
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 18:57 - Nov 7 with 7254 views | AgedR |
Good post.
I think we shaped up well for the first half and, had we scored, would have won the game comfortably against an, almost painfully, negative Preston team.
Joint men of the match for me were Hoilett and Henry. And I never dreamt I would ever say that.
As for perspective, there is a world of difference playing Henry out of position at right wing as there is to playing him out of position at right back.
In Pearch's absence it made perfect sense playing him there, rather than playing Ned out of position. Ned is woeful with the ball at his feet, but, a good stopper. It's centre half or nothing for him as far as I'm concerned.
Hall looked great today and, until Preston reacted by effectively man marking him at quarter back, Ale was sublime at times.
We know Warnock's limitations and they were shown today in trying to break down a negative opposition. However, I like having him back and feel a lot happier having him on the side getting under the skin of anyone who opposes us. |  |
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 18:57 - Nov 7 with 7251 views | essextaxiboy |
We had all 5 of the "expectation changing" players on the pitch together for the first time this season today .
Some great passing but no cutting edge . |  | | |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 19:18 - Nov 7 with 7147 views | HollowayRanger |
RAMSEY was given 30 games the booing only started in last 6-8 games as it was clear from there that things were not improving
I think Warnock will need more than 1 game to sort anything out and undo this mess, henry was one of my top 3 today which aint saying much as phillips was a joke and sandro fer non events ,Austin never had a sniff and just looked like a player waiting for the January sales |  |
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 20:19 - Nov 7 with 6968 views | CHUBBS |
Warnock a very experienced successful championship manager won our first trophy in 25 years yet still got booed and had chants of "you don't know what your doing" leveled at him a few months later.
Ramsey of no managerial experience or previous success at our club relegated us without any fight(yes i know it wasn't all his fault)yet still got the fans support until they'd had enough of his ludicrous selections and non existent substitutions.
Our fans expectations are warped but thats down to our naive unrealistic ex chairman who makes promises he just can't deliver.
NW will get slated by fans again if he continually makes the same mistakes over and over,its just the way football is now.
BTW i thought Henry was our best player today after Grant Hall. |  | | |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 20:39 - Nov 7 with 6873 views | SomersetHoops |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 19:18 - Nov 7 by HollowayRanger |
RAMSEY was given 30 games the booing only started in last 6-8 games as it was clear from there that things were not improving
I think Warnock will need more than 1 game to sort anything out and undo this mess, henry was one of my top 3 today which aint saying much as phillips was a joke and sandro fer non events ,Austin never had a sniff and just looked like a player waiting for the January sales |
Warnock has been around the place for more than one game. Its time for fans to realise its not the manager that is the problem its the unrealistic demands made of them by the owners and that players these days decide how hard and well they play irrespective of what the manager says. As far as things not improving under Ramsey - he did at first this season try to do what he was asked and generally was achieving it. Anyone who thinks this team is anywhere near ready for promotion wants their head examined - starting with Fernandes. |  |
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 20:41 - Nov 7 with 6854 views | Pommyhoop |
>>>>>>>>
''I do have a horrible feeling KHR may keep his place though! ''
From your OP LBlock mate. This is another bug bear of mine. Loads of poster's [think you might be one, not sure tho] used cite ''His insistence in playing the crap Karl Henry'' as one of the major reasons they wanted CR sacked. Now I might be wrong but like you I've got a feeling Henry will keep his place.I've also got a sneaking suspicion that if Warnock or whoever picks Mr Henry they will not receive a 10th of the abuse CR did for said inclusion.I'd go so far as his inclusion will be downgraded from a'' reason to sack'' to a shrug and an acceptance as a ''necessary evil''.
Lets see whats said if Karlos is picked on Saturday.
A little prediction :: The ''Hate Henry'' blinkers might almost magically disappear from some
and Warnock or whoever will receive glowing plaudits for ''unearthing a gem ''
Ok that was a tad too far but you know what I mean
[Post edited 6 Nov 1:53] <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spooooooky ::: I posted the above a couple of days ago...
Relax, I'm no mystic Meg.It wasn't that hard really [Post edited 7 Nov 2015 20:43]
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 21:45 - Nov 7 with 6641 views | bosh67 |
There was a marked difference for me.
Chris Ramsey had 32 games and quite a few months to fashion some kind of playing style. Lovely guy, tried very hard but anyone who can tell me what kind of playing style he deployed please enlighten me, because I never saw one.
Neil Warnock's had 3 days this time. Let's look at the kick off. For as long as I can remember under Ramsey, play the ball to another player, belt it long and out of play up the pitch. Today, we kept the ball for the first 90 seconds, in play. First 20 minutes we had shape, we had space, we had players who knew where they were meant to be and for the first time in a very long time, before Ramsey even, we were on the front foot.
Yes it fizzled out. There are still dynamic issues up front, it's still disjointed, but then again you have a great forward still not looking 100% match fit, one winger who has not played a full game in ages (who did well) and another who couldn't miss Austin last season having a real dip in form this term. Fer played okay but wasn't on the wavelength with Austin because they haven't played that way before. It may well come in training but that was the weak link today. No cutting edge.
Ramsey was doing better with the defence before he left but today Faurlin and Sandro linked play and not only did they take some heat off the back four they also allowed the backline not to not be harassed and forced into errors. They continued to protect the back 4 second half but we did start to bypass them and not play it on the deck. That would have been noted by someone like Warnock.
I for one have never understood the Henry haters but today we saw a player used by an experienced manager in a position that his experience and ability actually suited. If it wasn't for Hall's faultless performance Henry would have been a contender for our MOTM.
Look, no one wanted Ramsey to fail. There are no fan double standards. JET and Austin didn't work too well against Brentford and that is more because there was no midfield at all to get the ball forward. Today it didn't work either but I suspect Warnock will perhaps look at the idea of playing JET in a more Zamora role centrally to support Austin or he may look at playing JET wide left until he knows if Austin will stay in the new year.
Today, for me, we saw a team that has had no direction show a few sparks that perhaps they are not quite as inept as we thought. It would also be unfair on Preston not to recognise that Preston dealt well at the back because they have made that a trademark part of their game. They came for a draw and they got it. But for Green they may have escaped with 3 undeserved points near the end.
It proved one thing that Ramsey just couldn't get his team to do and that was take the game to the opponents early and stamp authority on the start of a game. Remember, as someone else said, the fans only turned in recent games and that was because there was no playing style and certain decisions were just baffling. |  |
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 21:46 - Nov 7 with 6628 views | HollowayRanger |
who else but henry or onough could be rightback today
henry had to play and bloody well he played too
if theres a problem its the big names on big money who are under performing
green quite a few mistakes for a premiership paid keeper
onouha as above
sandro how much has he earned already and for what?
fer should be a world beater cant beat anyone lately
phillips must be the name as he's been terrible
Austin sorry but he aint happy and I hope he goes in January best for everyone | |
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 21:52 - Nov 7 with 6599 views | Pommyhoop |
Cheers 'Arry .
Nice one mate..
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 22:02 - Nov 7 with 6560 views | baz_qpr |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 21:45 - Nov 7 by bosh67 |
There was a marked difference for me.
Chris Ramsey had 32 games and quite a few months to fashion some kind of playing style. Lovely guy, tried very hard but anyone who can tell me what kind of playing style he deployed please enlighten me, because I never saw one.
Neil Warnock's had 3 days this time. Let's look at the kick off. For as long as I can remember under Ramsey, play the ball to another player, belt it long and out of play up the pitch. Today, we kept the ball for the first 90 seconds, in play. First 20 minutes we had shape, we had space, we had players who knew where they were meant to be and for the first time in a very long time, before Ramsey even, we were on the front foot.
Yes it fizzled out. There are still dynamic issues up front, it's still disjointed, but then again you have a great forward still not looking 100% match fit, one winger who has not played a full game in ages (who did well) and another who couldn't miss Austin last season having a real dip in form this term. Fer played okay but wasn't on the wavelength with Austin because they haven't played that way before. It may well come in training but that was the weak link today. No cutting edge.
Ramsey was doing better with the defence before he left but today Faurlin and Sandro linked play and not only did they take some heat off the back four they also allowed the backline not to not be harassed and forced into errors. They continued to protect the back 4 second half but we did start to bypass them and not play it on the deck. That would have been noted by someone like Warnock.
I for one have never understood the Henry haters but today we saw a player used by an experienced manager in a position that his experience and ability actually suited. If it wasn't for Hall's faultless performance Henry would have been a contender for our MOTM.
Look, no one wanted Ramsey to fail. There are no fan double standards. JET and Austin didn't work too well against Brentford and that is more because there was no midfield at all to get the ball forward. Today it didn't work either but I suspect Warnock will perhaps look at the idea of playing JET in a more Zamora role centrally to support Austin or he may look at playing JET wide left until he knows if Austin will stay in the new year.
Today, for me, we saw a team that has had no direction show a few sparks that perhaps they are not quite as inept as we thought. It would also be unfair on Preston not to recognise that Preston dealt well at the back because they have made that a trademark part of their game. They came for a draw and they got it. But for Green they may have escaped with 3 undeserved points near the end.
It proved one thing that Ramsey just couldn't get his team to do and that was take the game to the opponents early and stamp authority on the start of a game. Remember, as someone else said, the fans only turned in recent games and that was because there was no playing style and certain decisions were just baffling. |
I think that's the perfect riposte to Michael and Clive's point Bosh, don't think I could have put it better myself. Sorry I think the OP is as daft and over the top as some as the stuff posted about Ramsey by Lblock and others. We all can pick on something to fit our own viewpoint.
Warnock had them two days WTF do you expect him to do in that time, yet they were more balanced, and in the first half passed quicker and with more intensity than we have seen we could not break them down, but neither could the last 5 teams that have played them including Brighton. PNE came for a 0-0 and got it because we did not have enough guile in our locker to counter their ultra defensive tactics. |  | | |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 22:07 - Nov 7 with 6534 views | CiderwithRsie |
Does it matter, really?
I take the point of the OP, I think Ramsey got a bad rap, I think many of the problems aren't down to the manager anyway, and so on. But I also note that Ramsey attracts a more measured criticism of the sort you can read from Bosh above and as far as I can see there's something in it. Ramsey may not have been all or even most of the problem , but it's far from clear that he was the solution.
But, whatever, he's gone. Naturally I wish whoever is in charge all the best for the duration, and in this particular case NW is one of the good guys. No idea who is going to be there long term, but I'm vaguely encouraged by some of the noises about possible candidates. Bit worried frankly to find Hoilett, Fer and Phillips all playing while none of JET, Luongo or Chery did, but let's see, eh?
Onwards and upwards people. | | | |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 00:31 - Nov 8 with 6296 views | connell10 |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 22:02 - Nov 7 by baz_qpr |
I think that's the perfect riposte to Michael and Clive's point Bosh, don't think I could have put it better myself. Sorry I think the OP is as daft and over the top as some as the stuff posted about Ramsey by Lblock and others. We all can pick on something to fit our own viewpoint.
Warnock had them two days WTF do you expect him to do in that time, yet they were more balanced, and in the first half passed quicker and with more intensity than we have seen we could not break them down, but neither could the last 5 teams that have played them including Brighton. PNE came for a 0-0 and got it because we did not have enough guile in our locker to counter their ultra defensive tactics. |
mate im sorry but thats rubbish, their goalie went home with a clean kit! YOU HAVE TO WORK THE OPPO GOALIE AT HOME! |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 00:46 - Nov 8 with 6253 views | barbicanranger |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 22:02 - Nov 7 by baz_qpr |
I think that's the perfect riposte to Michael and Clive's point Bosh, don't think I could have put it better myself. Sorry I think the OP is as daft and over the top as some as the stuff posted about Ramsey by Lblock and others. We all can pick on something to fit our own viewpoint.
Warnock had them two days WTF do you expect him to do in that time, yet they were more balanced, and in the first half passed quicker and with more intensity than we have seen we could not break them down, but neither could the last 5 teams that have played them including Brighton. PNE came for a 0-0 and got it because we did not have enough guile in our locker to counter their ultra defensive tactics. |
Completely agree. Thought it was a very good post by Bosh.
For me it was brentford that ultimately did it for me, I'm all for longevity, I liked Ramsey and wanted him to succeed but after 32 games in charge, it came down to hoofing it and long throw ins. I'm not actually surprised people are saying it's the best football they have seen this season for 30mins. Warnock knows what he's doing. [Post edited 8 Nov 2015 0:51]
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 07:46 - Nov 8 with 6069 views | sevenhoop |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 00:46 - Nov 8 by barbicanranger |
Completely agree. Thought it was a very good post by Bosh.
For me it was brentford that ultimately did it for me, I'm all for longevity, I liked Ramsey and wanted him to succeed but after 32 games in charge, it came down to hoofing it and long throw ins. I'm not actually surprised people are saying it's the best football they have seen this season for 30mins. Warnock knows what he's doing. [Post edited 8 Nov 2015 0:51]
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No idea why anyone 'liked' Ransey as a manager (tho I'm sure he's a nice bloke). He was a very poor manager (and if all he was supposed to be was a 'first team coach, we was awful at that too).
Today was much better and was really promising until the two a lot of us have been crying out for in central mid both ran out of steam, not surprising due to lack of game time. And, in some respects we were unlucky with our line up to come up against the most well-drilled and best organised defence.
As for Henry, he was decent enough and far less dangerous for us there than in midfield. But no more than that and we really need one can offer us something going forward too as he is so limited as a footballer.
Strange, that picture of Danny Simpson. Was only saying at the game that the decision to bomb him out for a loanee and a system that was dropped after 3 games was one of the worst in recent memory. |  | | |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 08:28 - Nov 8 with 5984 views | RangersDave |
There's no doubt i have challenged Ramsey right to manage our club since he was appointed. However there is a couple of things i definitely know which i'm pretty sure no one on this forum can dispute.................
1) I'd trust the experienced NW to manage our team much more than i could trust the no experience CR to.
2) The rot is in the whole club, whether it's the chairman, Les, the training facilities, all the backroom staff or a mix of all of these i don't know (but suspect the latter). What is correct though is that if you get rid of a suspect member of staff and there is no improvement, you must look at others. So if fitness isn't there you change that position, same for injuries etc.
Maybe, just maybe, Rangers need a complete clear out, root and branch style, to divest themselves of this malaise? |  |
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 09:57 - Nov 8 with 5783 views | DejR_vu |
There's a world of difference between a manager with multiple promotions on his CV, including one here whilst playing some of the best football played by a QPR side for 20 years, picking his first team since coming back, and a novice with absolutely no track record. Surely it's pretty obvious one has earned the right to be trusted, one hasn't.
Looking at his twitter, I'm surprised Clive has felt the need to make some of the comments he has. It looks like the Chinese Water Torture that is Queens Park Rangers Football Club is finally getting to him. [Post edited 8 Nov 2015 10:16]
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 10:07 - Nov 8 with 5746 views | olderR |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 08:28 - Nov 8 by RangersDave |
There's no doubt i have challenged Ramsey right to manage our club since he was appointed. However there is a couple of things i definitely know which i'm pretty sure no one on this forum can dispute.................
1) I'd trust the experienced NW to manage our team much more than i could trust the no experience CR to.
2) The rot is in the whole club, whether it's the chairman, Les, the training facilities, all the backroom staff or a mix of all of these i don't know (but suspect the latter). What is correct though is that if you get rid of a suspect member of staff and there is no improvement, you must look at others. So if fitness isn't there you change that position, same for injuries etc.
Maybe, just maybe, Rangers need a complete clear out, root and branch style, to divest themselves of this malaise? |
Let's start a new club as the Mancs did.
See you all on the Scrubs next Saturday morning for the first training session of
Park Queens Rangers F.C. |  | | |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 10:18 - Nov 8 with 5703 views | daveB |
If Ramsey had picked that team it would have been meltdown, if we had played like that under Ramsey again meltdown.
We were absolutely crap yesterday, created nothing all game and were lucky not to get beat as Greens saved looked over the line to me. Our tactic was Onouha runs forward with the ball and pumps it out for a throw in. People actually clapped them off at the end, that was in the top five of worst football matches i have ever seen. |  | | |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 10:20 - Nov 8 with 5691 views | californiahoop |
CR had half a season, pre season, and the games this season, he should have played Vargas, Zarate, and the other players he was to stubborn to play, he may have kept us up, playing Henry at RW against W Ham, in a game we had to win is a crime!
Pre season, he thought we would lose our "star" players so had a different plan, once the window closed, he was guilty of not adjusting to the change of situation, he tried fitting square pegs in round holes.
The players that remained couldnt play the system he wanted, he should have continued implementing the system at youth level and slowly eased the first team into it over time!
In the end, he made to many mistakes, for me, the one that did it for me was the Forest game, the team had just kept there first clean sheet the game before and where on a three game winning streak, Doughty and Hall played well up to that point.
He then proceeded to bring in that girl Angella and Tozer, then had the cheek to say both where not up to speed.
Rule number one, never change a winning team for new signings, make them work to get into a winning team! | | | |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 10:20 - Nov 8 with 5687 views | DejR_vu |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 10:18 - Nov 8 by daveB |
If Ramsey had picked that team it would have been meltdown, if we had played like that under Ramsey again meltdown.
We were absolutely crap yesterday, created nothing all game and were lucky not to get beat as Greens saved looked over the line to me. Our tactic was Onouha runs forward with the ball and pumps it out for a throw in. People actually clapped them off at the end, that was in the top five of worst football matches i have ever seen. |
'that was in the top five of worst football matches i have ever seen. '
Seriously? | |
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 10:27 - Nov 8 with 5672 views | daveB |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 10:20 - Nov 8 by DejR_vu |
'that was in the top five of worst football matches i have ever seen. '
Seriously? |
yep, dreadful game, no shots, no sustained pressure, no urgency, it was awful to watch | | | |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 10:44 - Nov 8 with 5623 views | JonDoeman |
Have to say I don't really understand the point of this thread .
I said as soon as Ramsey got the job he needed a good start cos he wouldn't get cut much slack after last season, where he basically stank the gaff out. And that is one of the many reasons he was a ridiculous appointment . |  |
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 10:50 - Nov 8 with 5607 views | JonDoeman |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 21:45 - Nov 7 by bosh67 |
There was a marked difference for me.
Chris Ramsey had 32 games and quite a few months to fashion some kind of playing style. Lovely guy, tried very hard but anyone who can tell me what kind of playing style he deployed please enlighten me, because I never saw one.
Neil Warnock's had 3 days this time. Let's look at the kick off. For as long as I can remember under Ramsey, play the ball to another player, belt it long and out of play up the pitch. Today, we kept the ball for the first 90 seconds, in play. First 20 minutes we had shape, we had space, we had players who knew where they were meant to be and for the first time in a very long time, before Ramsey even, we were on the front foot.
Yes it fizzled out. There are still dynamic issues up front, it's still disjointed, but then again you have a great forward still not looking 100% match fit, one winger who has not played a full game in ages (who did well) and another who couldn't miss Austin last season having a real dip in form this term. Fer played okay but wasn't on the wavelength with Austin because they haven't played that way before. It may well come in training but that was the weak link today. No cutting edge.
Ramsey was doing better with the defence before he left but today Faurlin and Sandro linked play and not only did they take some heat off the back four they also allowed the backline not to not be harassed and forced into errors. They continued to protect the back 4 second half but we did start to bypass them and not play it on the deck. That would have been noted by someone like Warnock.
I for one have never understood the Henry haters but today we saw a player used by an experienced manager in a position that his experience and ability actually suited. If it wasn't for Hall's faultless performance Henry would have been a contender for our MOTM.
Look, no one wanted Ramsey to fail. There are no fan double standards. JET and Austin didn't work too well against Brentford and that is more because there was no midfield at all to get the ball forward. Today it didn't work either but I suspect Warnock will perhaps look at the idea of playing JET in a more Zamora role centrally to support Austin or he may look at playing JET wide left until he knows if Austin will stay in the new year.
Today, for me, we saw a team that has had no direction show a few sparks that perhaps they are not quite as inept as we thought. It would also be unfair on Preston not to recognise that Preston dealt well at the back because they have made that a trademark part of their game. They came for a draw and they got it. But for Green they may have escaped with 3 undeserved points near the end.
It proved one thing that Ramsey just couldn't get his team to do and that was take the game to the opponents early and stamp authority on the start of a game. Remember, as someone else said, the fans only turned in recent games and that was because there was no playing style and certain decisions were just baffling. |
This is a good post Bosh. Have a chufty badge! | |
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 10:59 - Nov 8 with 5571 views | 18StoneOfHoop |
The best bit at LR yesterday was impeccably observed 2 mins silence..which I'm about to do again. We shall remember them. |  |
| 'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please. |
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| Today: a bit of perspective on 11:02 - Nov 8 with 5567 views | JonDoeman |
| Today: a bit of perspective on 10:59 - Nov 8 by 18StoneOfHoop |
The best bit at LR yesterday was impeccably observed 2 mins silence..which I'm about to do again. We shall remember them. |
Yeah that's the best observed one I can remember . | |
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