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Brexit (again) 13:21 - Jul 17 with 3104 viewsQPR_John

If I or anybody else went to live in the USA or Australia or India or anywhere I would be subject to the laws of that country and the British courts could not interfere. Why does the EU demand that EU citizens living in this country have their rights protected by the EU when we leave. Nobody has suggested that citizens of non EU countries living here have their rights protected by their own governments. I am not really a political animal so could be missing something here so if somebody could explain
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Brexit (again) on 13:25 - Jul 17 with 2012 viewsBoston

I have a headache already.
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Brexit (again) on 13:27 - Jul 17 with 2016 viewsStanisgod

Basically we will let ourselves get shafted when we are out of the EU the same way we're shafted in it.

It's being so happy that keeps me going.

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Brexit (again) on 13:43 - Jul 17 with 1965 viewsHayesender

Apparently none of us leavers knew what we were voting for

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Brexit (again) on 13:46 - Jul 17 with 1955 viewsBrightonhoop

Simple really. There are several million Brits living in the EU other states who enjoy protection from the state by way of law.
With millions who have moved to the UK in good faith these rights would be upheld it is not unreasonable to expect continued protection for all under laws we've become accustomed to, regardless of the leave vote.
Besides which, only a tyranical Government would seek to water down peoples rights, and the fact they dont want to reciprocate on very reasonable grounds stinks of a rotten government with malice against its own people and others in mind. It really is that simple.
Also without going through reams of Legislation on individual Acts, likely to take about 10 years to achieve through arliament, we've been told 99% of EU Law will be assimilated into UK Law anyway. Why they cant just get on and offer a decent reciprocal arrangement for all those living in the UK, and those Brits living in the EU speaks volumes of this Governments capacity for decent economic management. They are complete morons. Hammond, May, Johnsone, Fox and the other tw4t do not seem to have a brain cell between them. Meanwhile the infationary pressures growing, and their implictions for households in the UK are frankly frightening, whilst these lums re-arrange the deck chairs as the Titanic goes down.
It was the Tolpuddle weekender this weekend, who, without they're sacrifice there wouldn't be weekends, you'd be working 7 days a week, without holidays, certainly not paid holidays. Government never gave us these benefits, they had to be fought for, some paid with their lives.
Point being now the Government of the day is a tyrant, utterly incompetent, in open warfare at Cabinet level and couldn't run a bath, let alone negotiations to Leave the EU. UK desperatrly needs a new Government that can negotiate a Leave deal that does least economic harm to the UK, and only Corbyn can do that. The Tories are a shambles that have allowed their rabid ultra right to wreak havoc not just in the Tory arty but across the UK now demanding a hard brexit without any consideration to the harm that will be done, and is being done, to the economy.

Rant over.
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Brexit (again) on 13:56 - Jul 17 with 1917 viewsQPR_John

Brexit (again) on 13:46 - Jul 17 by Brightonhoop

Simple really. There are several million Brits living in the EU other states who enjoy protection from the state by way of law.
With millions who have moved to the UK in good faith these rights would be upheld it is not unreasonable to expect continued protection for all under laws we've become accustomed to, regardless of the leave vote.
Besides which, only a tyranical Government would seek to water down peoples rights, and the fact they dont want to reciprocate on very reasonable grounds stinks of a rotten government with malice against its own people and others in mind. It really is that simple.
Also without going through reams of Legislation on individual Acts, likely to take about 10 years to achieve through arliament, we've been told 99% of EU Law will be assimilated into UK Law anyway. Why they cant just get on and offer a decent reciprocal arrangement for all those living in the UK, and those Brits living in the EU speaks volumes of this Governments capacity for decent economic management. They are complete morons. Hammond, May, Johnsone, Fox and the other tw4t do not seem to have a brain cell between them. Meanwhile the infationary pressures growing, and their implictions for households in the UK are frankly frightening, whilst these lums re-arrange the deck chairs as the Titanic goes down.
It was the Tolpuddle weekender this weekend, who, without they're sacrifice there wouldn't be weekends, you'd be working 7 days a week, without holidays, certainly not paid holidays. Government never gave us these benefits, they had to be fought for, some paid with their lives.
Point being now the Government of the day is a tyrant, utterly incompetent, in open warfare at Cabinet level and couldn't run a bath, let alone negotiations to Leave the EU. UK desperatrly needs a new Government that can negotiate a Leave deal that does least economic harm to the UK, and only Corbyn can do that. The Tories are a shambles that have allowed their rabid ultra right to wreak havoc not just in the Tory arty but across the UK now demanding a hard brexit without any consideration to the harm that will be done, and is being done, to the economy.

Rant over.


"Why they cant just get on and offer a decent reciprocal arrangement for all those living in the UK, and those Brits living in the EU speaks volumes of this Governments capacity for decent economic management."

You mean the EU should offer British citizens living in the EU the right to be subject to British law rather than EU law once we leave
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Brexit (again) on 14:17 - Jul 17 with 1871 viewsBrightonhoop

Brexit (again) on 13:56 - Jul 17 by QPR_John

"Why they cant just get on and offer a decent reciprocal arrangement for all those living in the UK, and those Brits living in the EU speaks volumes of this Governments capacity for decent economic management."

You mean the EU should offer British citizens living in the EU the right to be subject to British law rather than EU law once we leave


No. I mean maintain the legal standards we've all grown to expect to date. Future EU Law wont have to become British Law. The yes vote was more than a year ago and the pathetic incumbents in Government cant even organise or give assurrances on current law. Over 12 months and they have achieved not one thing.
No wonder the EU have already kicked Mays proposal into the long grass.
There's a deluded superioty complex in the British psyche that the rest of the world are laughing at meanwhile. With little capacity for economic growth and a production rate that belongs in the dark ages. Leaderless, rudderless, going nowhere and sinking fast. Wake up! Silly w4nkery about EU Law we've all llived with being assimilated into UK Law.
ffs. Do you think a Cabinet of Millionaires give a toss or have any understaning on the ordinary bloke trying to raise a family? And Hammond yesterday claiming nurses were already overpaid.....jesus wept. And some of you vote for that shyte? UK's going to have a very crude wake up call. It;s economically dead in the water in a raidly changing world economy. A sitting duck, with the US et al sizing up assetts like the NHS.
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Brexit (again) on 14:21 - Jul 17 with 1857 viewsQPR_John

Brexit (again) on 14:17 - Jul 17 by Brightonhoop

No. I mean maintain the legal standards we've all grown to expect to date. Future EU Law wont have to become British Law. The yes vote was more than a year ago and the pathetic incumbents in Government cant even organise or give assurrances on current law. Over 12 months and they have achieved not one thing.
No wonder the EU have already kicked Mays proposal into the long grass.
There's a deluded superioty complex in the British psyche that the rest of the world are laughing at meanwhile. With little capacity for economic growth and a production rate that belongs in the dark ages. Leaderless, rudderless, going nowhere and sinking fast. Wake up! Silly w4nkery about EU Law we've all llived with being assimilated into UK Law.
ffs. Do you think a Cabinet of Millionaires give a toss or have any understaning on the ordinary bloke trying to raise a family? And Hammond yesterday claiming nurses were already overpaid.....jesus wept. And some of you vote for that shyte? UK's going to have a very crude wake up call. It;s economically dead in the water in a raidly changing world economy. A sitting duck, with the US et al sizing up assetts like the NHS.


Well then I guess the EU is glad we are leaving will make negotiations all the more simple if both parties want the same thing
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Brexit (again) on 14:25 - Jul 17 with 1849 viewstoboboly

Brexit (again) on 14:17 - Jul 17 by Brightonhoop

No. I mean maintain the legal standards we've all grown to expect to date. Future EU Law wont have to become British Law. The yes vote was more than a year ago and the pathetic incumbents in Government cant even organise or give assurrances on current law. Over 12 months and they have achieved not one thing.
No wonder the EU have already kicked Mays proposal into the long grass.
There's a deluded superioty complex in the British psyche that the rest of the world are laughing at meanwhile. With little capacity for economic growth and a production rate that belongs in the dark ages. Leaderless, rudderless, going nowhere and sinking fast. Wake up! Silly w4nkery about EU Law we've all llived with being assimilated into UK Law.
ffs. Do you think a Cabinet of Millionaires give a toss or have any understaning on the ordinary bloke trying to raise a family? And Hammond yesterday claiming nurses were already overpaid.....jesus wept. And some of you vote for that shyte? UK's going to have a very crude wake up call. It;s economically dead in the water in a raidly changing world economy. A sitting duck, with the US et al sizing up assetts like the NHS.


That's not how laws work.

If a country decided to introduce the death penalty and as a foreign citizen you did something that would have got you nothing more than a slap on the wrist two weeks previously but now gets you shot at dawn you can't just turn round and say well it wouldn't happen in my country, I shouldn't be subject to that.

Laws change constantly in all countries and the point, for many, of leaving the EU was that laws made in Britain would be adhered to rather than changed from a foreign institution.

The original poster has a point.

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Brexit (again) on 14:39 - Jul 17 with 1824 viewsBrightonhoop

Brexit (again) on 14:21 - Jul 17 by QPR_John

Well then I guess the EU is glad we are leaving will make negotiations all the more simple if both parties want the same thing


EU has got every right to expect UK to respect it's citizens that have moved to the UK and would be negligent ultimately to do otherwise. May is quite content to use UK Citizens in the EU a pawns. She's a disgusting rodent unfit for office. Their's a rump of right wing loons in the Tory party that have no understanding of the harm being done to the UK right now. And a Media content to hide it from the population by non-reporting.

I met someone off a flight at Alicante last week and it took an hour to clear, when usually it takes ten mins. Every UK Passport was scanned into the system when usually just waived through. When I asked what the hold up was, they laughed and said Brexit, get used to what you voted for..... they are already implementing on a perceived basis of a hard Brexit, long before we actually leave. UK has been so rude and arrogant, stupidly so, whatever decent standing UK had is gone.
I want the UK out of the EU too but it has to be done in an organised, respectful and co-ordinated manner that serves all well. The chaos that is going on currently is going to have dour repercussions for UK economically and creditability for decades to come. Englands dreaming.
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Brexit (again) on 14:41 - Jul 17 with 1817 viewsTacticalR

Britain should have split after the vote. Any constituency that voted for Brexit would be part of the Grand Duchy of Brexitania ('Little Britain').

The rest would be Remainia. Scotland would be North Remainia, Northern Ireland would be East Remainia, and London and associated constituencies would be South Remainia.

The new countries to be separated by an enormous wall.

Air hostess clique

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Brexit (again) on 14:46 - Jul 17 with 1808 viewsloftboy

Brexit (again) on 14:41 - Jul 17 by TacticalR

Britain should have split after the vote. Any constituency that voted for Brexit would be part of the Grand Duchy of Brexitania ('Little Britain').

The rest would be Remainia. Scotland would be North Remainia, Northern Ireland would be East Remainia, and London and associated constituencies would be South Remainia.

The new countries to be separated by an enormous wall.


Shouldn't NI be west Remainia or have I got my compass points wrong?

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Brexit (again) on 14:48 - Jul 17 with 1804 viewsdistortR

Brexit (again) on 14:41 - Jul 17 by TacticalR

Britain should have split after the vote. Any constituency that voted for Brexit would be part of the Grand Duchy of Brexitania ('Little Britain').

The rest would be Remainia. Scotland would be North Remainia, Northern Ireland would be East Remainia, and London and associated constituencies would be South Remainia.

The new countries to be separated by an enormous wall.


two walls. Remainia's to be built by eastern european's, Brexitania's to be built by native Brexitanian's.
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Brexit (again) on 14:48 - Jul 17 with 1795 viewsQPR_John

Brexit (again) on 14:39 - Jul 17 by Brightonhoop

EU has got every right to expect UK to respect it's citizens that have moved to the UK and would be negligent ultimately to do otherwise. May is quite content to use UK Citizens in the EU a pawns. She's a disgusting rodent unfit for office. Their's a rump of right wing loons in the Tory party that have no understanding of the harm being done to the UK right now. And a Media content to hide it from the population by non-reporting.

I met someone off a flight at Alicante last week and it took an hour to clear, when usually it takes ten mins. Every UK Passport was scanned into the system when usually just waived through. When I asked what the hold up was, they laughed and said Brexit, get used to what you voted for..... they are already implementing on a perceived basis of a hard Brexit, long before we actually leave. UK has been so rude and arrogant, stupidly so, whatever decent standing UK had is gone.
I want the UK out of the EU too but it has to be done in an organised, respectful and co-ordinated manner that serves all well. The chaos that is going on currently is going to have dour repercussions for UK economically and creditability for decades to come. Englands dreaming.


"EU has got every right to expect UK to respect it's citizens that have moved to the UK and would be negligent ultimately to do otherwise."

Of course it has as has the UK every right to expect other countries throughout the world to respect its citizens. That was not my point. The UK does not have the right to expect UK citizens not to be subject to the laws of the country they live in. You seem to have changed your argument from demanding EU citizens to be subject to different laws to the country they live in to the perfectly understandable one of being respected by the country they live in.
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Brexit (again) on 14:49 - Jul 17 with 1790 viewsTacticalR

Brexit (again) on 14:46 - Jul 17 by loftboy

Shouldn't NI be west Remainia or have I got my compass points wrong?


Good point. I see the fledgling nation is off to a bad start.

Air hostess clique

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Brexit (again) on 14:55 - Jul 17 with 1768 viewsBrightonhoop

Brexit (again) on 14:25 - Jul 17 by toboboly

That's not how laws work.

If a country decided to introduce the death penalty and as a foreign citizen you did something that would have got you nothing more than a slap on the wrist two weeks previously but now gets you shot at dawn you can't just turn round and say well it wouldn't happen in my country, I shouldn't be subject to that.

Laws change constantly in all countries and the point, for many, of leaving the EU was that laws made in Britain would be adhered to rather than changed from a foreign institution.

The original poster has a point.


Disagree Toboboly. It's like going to make a claim on your car insurance and the comany saying 'we dont cover cars anymore.' 'But, you sold me car insurance.' 'Well that was then and this is now.'

The only eole that will benefit from realing any EU Law in the UK will be unscrupulous emloyers and corporations. Guess which side this Government is on.
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Brexit (again) on 14:56 - Jul 17 with 1760 viewstoboboly

Brexit (again) on 14:55 - Jul 17 by Brightonhoop

Disagree Toboboly. It's like going to make a claim on your car insurance and the comany saying 'we dont cover cars anymore.' 'But, you sold me car insurance.' 'Well that was then and this is now.'

The only eole that will benefit from realing any EU Law in the UK will be unscrupulous emloyers and corporations. Guess which side this Government is on.


Surely your analogy is incorrect though.

Car insurance is a contract that you sign up and pay for. Living in a country isn't a contract it is a choice.

www.m25football.com

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Brexit (again) on 15:07 - Jul 17 with 1729 viewsBrightonhoop

Brexit (again) on 14:48 - Jul 17 by QPR_John

"EU has got every right to expect UK to respect it's citizens that have moved to the UK and would be negligent ultimately to do otherwise."

Of course it has as has the UK every right to expect other countries throughout the world to respect its citizens. That was not my point. The UK does not have the right to expect UK citizens not to be subject to the laws of the country they live in. You seem to have changed your argument from demanding EU citizens to be subject to different laws to the country they live in to the perfectly understandable one of being respected by the country they live in.


It may not have been your point, but it is the point. UK Government and citizens are not respected around the world because they wont respect the obligations to EU citizens that have made a life in the UK for decades before Brexit, and are now regarded as trash by the UK.
Who is going to respect that?
And all UK Gov has to do is respect those people by upholding existing rights on a condition of reciprocal arrangements for UK Citz in the EU. They are spineless retarded cretins. The worst Gov UK ha ever had, at a critical junction in its history. The rest of the world looks on astonished wondering what happened to that once great nation.
They have achieved litterally nothing in 13 months. What are these gims going to be able to do on thorny matters as Gibraltar? The inflation that is going to absolutely clobber the UK domestic economy, interest rate rises that will likely cause a housing crash an thousands of reposessions, it's one heck of a stinking mess with some very grim times ahead.
And all they've got to do is say, ok all those EU citizens in the UK on the day of Brexit maintain those rights. And they are too weak to do so, even offered the same reciprocly.
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Brexit (again) on 15:32 - Jul 17 with 1681 viewsBrightonhoop

Brexit (again) on 14:56 - Jul 17 by toboboly

Surely your analogy is incorrect though.

Car insurance is a contract that you sign up and pay for. Living in a country isn't a contract it is a choice.


All contracts are induced which imforms choice. If we had known Brexit was likely or even possible, better choices might have been made. So the analogy stands.
To not stand by those people who made informed choices on the basis UK wouldn't lose its marbles and elect Boris effing Johnstone as Foreign Secreatary have a clear right to greivance in any civilized system.
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Brexit (again) on 16:22 - Jul 17 with 1593 viewsQPR_John

Brexit (again) on 15:07 - Jul 17 by Brightonhoop

It may not have been your point, but it is the point. UK Government and citizens are not respected around the world because they wont respect the obligations to EU citizens that have made a life in the UK for decades before Brexit, and are now regarded as trash by the UK.
Who is going to respect that?
And all UK Gov has to do is respect those people by upholding existing rights on a condition of reciprocal arrangements for UK Citz in the EU. They are spineless retarded cretins. The worst Gov UK ha ever had, at a critical junction in its history. The rest of the world looks on astonished wondering what happened to that once great nation.
They have achieved litterally nothing in 13 months. What are these gims going to be able to do on thorny matters as Gibraltar? The inflation that is going to absolutely clobber the UK domestic economy, interest rate rises that will likely cause a housing crash an thousands of reposessions, it's one heck of a stinking mess with some very grim times ahead.
And all they've got to do is say, ok all those EU citizens in the UK on the day of Brexit maintain those rights. And they are too weak to do so, even offered the same reciprocly.


"UK Government and citizens are not respected around the world because they wont respect the obligations to EU citizens that have made a life in the UK for decades before Brexit, and are now regarded as trash by the UK. "

That is just ridiculous. Of course remainders will push this idea as will the EU but in reality where is the proof. Next you'll be saying the day after we leave there will be snatch squads up and down the country dragging EU citizens from their beds and deporting them. Pictures on the TV of crying children as their parents are dragged away. My wife is an EU citizen as are two of my friends none of them are worried. Real people are not worried only those with an agenda. As an aside when you talk about UK citizens I assume you are only referring to those who voted for Brexit.
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Brexit (again) on 16:41 - Jul 17 with 1568 viewsBasingstokeR

Brexit (again) on 16:22 - Jul 17 by QPR_John

"UK Government and citizens are not respected around the world because they wont respect the obligations to EU citizens that have made a life in the UK for decades before Brexit, and are now regarded as trash by the UK. "

That is just ridiculous. Of course remainders will push this idea as will the EU but in reality where is the proof. Next you'll be saying the day after we leave there will be snatch squads up and down the country dragging EU citizens from their beds and deporting them. Pictures on the TV of crying children as their parents are dragged away. My wife is an EU citizen as are two of my friends none of them are worried. Real people are not worried only those with an agenda. As an aside when you talk about UK citizens I assume you are only referring to those who voted for Brexit.


"Real people are not worried only those with an agenda."

^^^ Startling, gigantic sweeping generalisation at the very least.
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Brexit (again) on 17:25 - Jul 17 with 1510 viewsQPR_John

Brexit (again) on 16:41 - Jul 17 by BasingstokeR

"Real people are not worried only those with an agenda."

^^^ Startling, gigantic sweeping generalisation at the very least.


EU citizens regarded as trash by the UK is not?
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Brexit (again) on 18:36 - Jul 17 with 1425 viewsstevec

Shocked by this thread, is Brighton the only leftie in the village? Have all the Momentum boys decamped to Tuscany for the summer?

We should be told, I think

Sort it out, or something
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Brexit (again) on 19:24 - Jul 17 with 1378 viewsLblock

A lot of hyperbole and one sided slant on things

The world hasn't fallen in yet

If anyone thinks we'll get a fair deal out of the EU then they're mad. Why would they? It'd be the green light for others to leave the failed experiment behind and crack on. I do however think the UK is strong enough and well placed enough as a service provider, entertainer, carer and sayer of knowledge etc to smash through it

Five years time we'll know and hopefully Merkels club will continue to crumble
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Brexit (again) on 20:31 - Jul 17 with 1298 viewsNortholt_Rs

Brexit (again) on 19:24 - Jul 17 by Lblock

A lot of hyperbole and one sided slant on things

The world hasn't fallen in yet

If anyone thinks we'll get a fair deal out of the EU then they're mad. Why would they? It'd be the green light for others to leave the failed experiment behind and crack on. I do however think the UK is strong enough and well placed enough as a service provider, entertainer, carer and sayer of knowledge etc to smash through it

Five years time we'll know and hopefully Merkels club will continue to crumble


Amen brother

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Brexit (again) on 22:30 - Jul 17 with 1197 viewsderbyhoop

EU citizens in the UK have acquired rights due to their EU citizenship. Those rights are protected by the ECJ, as the final arbiter.
As part of the negotiations the UK could agree to a mutually acceptable position, but then change the rules post Brexit.EU citizens, who'd arrived in good faith and had acquired residency status would become 2nd class citizens in the UK. And with lesser rights than UK citizens in the EU.
Note the ECJ would only be involved on issues relating to citizenship.

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain) Find me on twitter @derbyhoop

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