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talking to a west ham fan at work and we have spent the last 4 hours chewing the fat , well arguing basically about the great players, pretty much everyone he said was brilliant , ive said was sh1te
Ian rush - never got it , terrible for wales, Juventus, leeds , Newcastle
Eden Hazard - never seen him really be a world beater in any game , goes missing especially in the big games
Alan Hansen- the biggest myth that he was Britain's best defender ,
Alexis Sanchez - I don't think he is worth 2 million let alone 53 million
jack Wilshire- I keep hearing he is the man we are missing in our midfield for England and that he was a world beater in a game against Barcelona about 6 years ago , I just see a bloke with a broken leg who smokes a lot
oh and cantona as well , retired before 30 and never done it in Europe or in a tournament
anyone else got players who everyone loves and raves about but you cannot see it ?
anyone else
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 20:51 - Nov 12 with 2854 views
Players everyone rates but you dont on 19:16 - Nov 12 by wood_hoop
One can only think not much competion for a couple of years, the title of the OP reflects perfectly my viewpoint, but then having seeing live many of the 'greats' since the middle sixties I have little experience in how to judge a players talent
"One can only think not much competition for a couple of years"
I assume your tongue is firmly in your cheek but if not how about for starters: Platini, Cruyff, Krol, Krankl, Rummenigge, Zoff, Bettega, Boniek.
John Stones and Lallana. Both decent players don’t get me wrong but stones seems to be (over)rated just because he’s better on the ball than most defenders. But defensively stones always seems a bit dodgy to me. Lallana....just don’t get it. Not got real pace, dribbles decently but not top class, passing is safe without getting killer passes too often and hardly deadly in front of goal.
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 21:51 - Nov 12 with 2809 views
I'll nominate Tony 'Donkey ' Adams sh*t centre back led a merry dance by Van Basten at the Euros and then all conveniately forgotten when he got lucky with the gooners. Also an absolutely sh*te manager in a succession of appointments!
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 23:48 - Nov 12 with 2751 views
Players everyone rates but you dont on 18:20 - Nov 10 by sexton
Stevie G. Ran around like a headless chicken blasting hollywood passes into touch. Decent shot.
Absolutely this.
Every time I see his image or hear is name mentioned my immediate thoughts are of Clive Tyldesley screaming GEEEERRRRRAAAAAAARD!!!!!!! during one his upteen commentaries whilst the ball rockets off into Row Z for the millionth time.
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 13:02 - Nov 13 with 2640 views
Players everyone rates but you dont on 21:28 - Nov 12 by JamesB1979
John Stones and Lallana. Both decent players don’t get me wrong but stones seems to be (over)rated just because he’s better on the ball than most defenders. But defensively stones always seems a bit dodgy to me. Lallana....just don’t get it. Not got real pace, dribbles decently but not top class, passing is safe without getting killer passes too often and hardly deadly in front of goal.
'Adam Lallana...!'
'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'
2
Players everyone rates but you dont on 13:04 - Nov 13 with 2633 views
Players everyone rates but you dont on 21:28 - Nov 12 by JamesB1979
John Stones and Lallana. Both decent players don’t get me wrong but stones seems to be (over)rated just because he’s better on the ball than most defenders. But defensively stones always seems a bit dodgy to me. Lallana....just don’t get it. Not got real pace, dribbles decently but not top class, passing is safe without getting killer passes too often and hardly deadly in front of goal.
Stones has looked pretty good this season. But surely a few years too early to judge him either way.
Players everyone rates but you dont on 12:56 - Nov 13 by Silverfoxqpr
Absolutely this.
Every time I see his image or hear is name mentioned my immediate thoughts are of Clive Tyldesley screaming GEEEERRRRRAAAAAAARD!!!!!!! during one his upteen commentaries whilst the ball rockets off into Row Z for the millionth time.
This is one I can't get my head round. Seen a few people saying Gerrard's overrated yet he won Champions League, FA Cups etc all with one club. Often pretty much on his own putting in big performances to win finals.
Granted he didn't win the Premiership but he was part of some quite mediocre Liverpool teams and came very close on a few occasions.
Now imagine if one of our players did the same. Surely we wouldn't label him overrated?!
1
Players everyone rates but you dont on 13:35 - Nov 13 with 2590 views
Rio Ferdinand and John Terry — were always caught out at international level by good attacks.
From the modern era, Phil Jones and Chris Smalling have benefitted from three years of United playing ultra-defence. People think they defend well, but if you've got £400m-worth of footballers playing back eight you'd expect not to concede many. Again, they're always found out against decent opposition.
Never really got Iker Casillas as a top class goalkeeper — certainly wasn't up there with Buffon, Schmeichel, Neuer, Seaman or Pagliuca like many seem to think he is.
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 13:38 - Nov 13 with 2584 views
Was going to bite and put together an over-rated 11 that would rule the world, but it turns out that full-backs are just not over-rated, and I'm not convinced Barnes and Giggs would track back enough to play the wing-back role.
Oh well.
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 12:53 - Nov 14 with 2338 views
Players everyone rates but you dont on 19:41 - Nov 9 by Hayesender
He only went the right way for every penalty as he waited till they hit the back of the net before he moved
Ridiculous that Shilton played for that long, he went downhill once he left Forest.
You had the likes of Seaman and Coton who were arguably just as good as, and I would say better than Woods and Bailey. They should have been playing much earlier than they did, and criminal that Coton did not get even one full cap.
Players everyone rates but you dont on 13:12 - Nov 13 by traininvain
This is one I can't get my head round. Seen a few people saying Gerrard's overrated yet he won Champions League, FA Cups etc all with one club. Often pretty much on his own putting in big performances to win finals.
Granted he didn't win the Premiership but he was part of some quite mediocre Liverpool teams and came very close on a few occasions.
Now imagine if one of our players did the same. Surely we wouldn't label him overrated?!
Agree. I don't get the Gerrard criticism.
If anything I think he is vastly underrated by a lot of football fans, especially sine this weird retrospective love in with Paul Scholes began post Zidane's comment.
Gerrard played in a far weaker side than Scholes and Lampard but singlehandedly dragged towards relative success. He put in some absolutely massive performances when the chips were down. He was a one man team against West Ham, led them by the scruff of the neck to victory in Istanbul. He was far more of a leader than Scholes, Lampard, or dare I say it, Roy Keane ever were. He didn't do it by intimidation, rather through setting a standard that he rarely dipped below and which every one of his teammates aspired to reach.
He was a genuinely all round midfielder. He is the closest thing England have produced in 30 years to Patrick Viera.
Where Roy Keane didn't get goals, Scholes couldn't tackle, Lampard didn't track back (and had a system built entirely to allow him to arrive from deep on the edge of the box unmarked), Gerrard had to be all things to all men. He was Liverpool's enforcer, their play marker, and, most seasons their 2nd top goal scorer.
I think he was a phenomenal player and one of the most underrated and badly used players England have ever had. Christ, England spent years playing him on the left, to accommodate Lampard down the middle. Then, when they played together in a 442, Gerrard was asked to play as the sitting midfielder to allow Lampard to do what he wanted. Gerrard should have been the box-to-box player in that side, with a holding midfielder behind him, if England insisted on just playing 2 central midfielders. His all round game was so so much better than Lampard's.
In terms of overrated players, at present, I think every goalkeeper (bar De Gea) is overrated. Genuinely, I think Smithies should be in the England squad. How the likes of Mignolet, can be playing for a top club whilst Smithies is keeping for us in the lower reaches of the Championship, is beyond me.
I think Rooney has been overrated for years. He was brilliant in his youth, but I think his body has aged differently to most. When he was 16, he was built like he was 24. I think the last 5 years of his career, he's been dreadful and slowed England down. He's living off past form, and legs that deserted him earlier than most.
Of England's big name players, I think Dier is overrated. I'm not sure he's good enough as either a centre half or central midfielder to play for England, but everyone seems to see him as the answer....to what question, I don't know!
Of world stars....Zlatan Ibrahimovich. Just don't get it. Yes, he CAN do many impressive things and score some wonderful goals. But he often doesn't. And he's always lazy. His record outside of Ligue 1 isn't amazing, and he's played for some huge clubs who create lots of chances. Compared to Messi and Ronaldo, or even the likes of Neymar, Suarez...even Bale, i just don't think he's close to that level. The cult of personality overtakes reality on his front, IMO.
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 14:36 - Nov 14 with 2270 views
Players everyone rates but you dont on 14:16 - Nov 14 by Hunterhoop
Agree. I don't get the Gerrard criticism.
If anything I think he is vastly underrated by a lot of football fans, especially sine this weird retrospective love in with Paul Scholes began post Zidane's comment.
Gerrard played in a far weaker side than Scholes and Lampard but singlehandedly dragged towards relative success. He put in some absolutely massive performances when the chips were down. He was a one man team against West Ham, led them by the scruff of the neck to victory in Istanbul. He was far more of a leader than Scholes, Lampard, or dare I say it, Roy Keane ever were. He didn't do it by intimidation, rather through setting a standard that he rarely dipped below and which every one of his teammates aspired to reach.
He was a genuinely all round midfielder. He is the closest thing England have produced in 30 years to Patrick Viera.
Where Roy Keane didn't get goals, Scholes couldn't tackle, Lampard didn't track back (and had a system built entirely to allow him to arrive from deep on the edge of the box unmarked), Gerrard had to be all things to all men. He was Liverpool's enforcer, their play marker, and, most seasons their 2nd top goal scorer.
I think he was a phenomenal player and one of the most underrated and badly used players England have ever had. Christ, England spent years playing him on the left, to accommodate Lampard down the middle. Then, when they played together in a 442, Gerrard was asked to play as the sitting midfielder to allow Lampard to do what he wanted. Gerrard should have been the box-to-box player in that side, with a holding midfielder behind him, if England insisted on just playing 2 central midfielders. His all round game was so so much better than Lampard's.
In terms of overrated players, at present, I think every goalkeeper (bar De Gea) is overrated. Genuinely, I think Smithies should be in the England squad. How the likes of Mignolet, can be playing for a top club whilst Smithies is keeping for us in the lower reaches of the Championship, is beyond me.
I think Rooney has been overrated for years. He was brilliant in his youth, but I think his body has aged differently to most. When he was 16, he was built like he was 24. I think the last 5 years of his career, he's been dreadful and slowed England down. He's living off past form, and legs that deserted him earlier than most.
Of England's big name players, I think Dier is overrated. I'm not sure he's good enough as either a centre half or central midfielder to play for England, but everyone seems to see him as the answer....to what question, I don't know!
Of world stars....Zlatan Ibrahimovich. Just don't get it. Yes, he CAN do many impressive things and score some wonderful goals. But he often doesn't. And he's always lazy. His record outside of Ligue 1 isn't amazing, and he's played for some huge clubs who create lots of chances. Compared to Messi and Ronaldo, or even the likes of Neymar, Suarez...even Bale, i just don't think he's close to that level. The cult of personality overtakes reality on his front, IMO.
Nail on head re Gerrard.
On the subject of Smithies in the England squad, I heard a good idea on the Quickly Kevin 90's football podcast about how we should take a penalty saving specialist to major tournaments and make it well known that we will use him in a penalty shootout .
The rationale being that at least one of the opposition penalty takers would end up missing as a result. Van Gaal did something similar at the 2014 World Cup with Krul but didn't make a point of letting the opposition know beforehand.
It's not a full proof idea but it makes as much sense as practicing penalties in a meaningless friendly at Wembley.
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 16:11 - Nov 14 with 2224 views
Players everyone rates but you dont on 14:16 - Nov 14 by Hunterhoop
Agree. I don't get the Gerrard criticism.
If anything I think he is vastly underrated by a lot of football fans, especially sine this weird retrospective love in with Paul Scholes began post Zidane's comment.
Gerrard played in a far weaker side than Scholes and Lampard but singlehandedly dragged towards relative success. He put in some absolutely massive performances when the chips were down. He was a one man team against West Ham, led them by the scruff of the neck to victory in Istanbul. He was far more of a leader than Scholes, Lampard, or dare I say it, Roy Keane ever were. He didn't do it by intimidation, rather through setting a standard that he rarely dipped below and which every one of his teammates aspired to reach.
He was a genuinely all round midfielder. He is the closest thing England have produced in 30 years to Patrick Viera.
Where Roy Keane didn't get goals, Scholes couldn't tackle, Lampard didn't track back (and had a system built entirely to allow him to arrive from deep on the edge of the box unmarked), Gerrard had to be all things to all men. He was Liverpool's enforcer, their play marker, and, most seasons their 2nd top goal scorer.
I think he was a phenomenal player and one of the most underrated and badly used players England have ever had. Christ, England spent years playing him on the left, to accommodate Lampard down the middle. Then, when they played together in a 442, Gerrard was asked to play as the sitting midfielder to allow Lampard to do what he wanted. Gerrard should have been the box-to-box player in that side, with a holding midfielder behind him, if England insisted on just playing 2 central midfielders. His all round game was so so much better than Lampard's.
In terms of overrated players, at present, I think every goalkeeper (bar De Gea) is overrated. Genuinely, I think Smithies should be in the England squad. How the likes of Mignolet, can be playing for a top club whilst Smithies is keeping for us in the lower reaches of the Championship, is beyond me.
I think Rooney has been overrated for years. He was brilliant in his youth, but I think his body has aged differently to most. When he was 16, he was built like he was 24. I think the last 5 years of his career, he's been dreadful and slowed England down. He's living off past form, and legs that deserted him earlier than most.
Of England's big name players, I think Dier is overrated. I'm not sure he's good enough as either a centre half or central midfielder to play for England, but everyone seems to see him as the answer....to what question, I don't know!
Of world stars....Zlatan Ibrahimovich. Just don't get it. Yes, he CAN do many impressive things and score some wonderful goals. But he often doesn't. And he's always lazy. His record outside of Ligue 1 isn't amazing, and he's played for some huge clubs who create lots of chances. Compared to Messi and Ronaldo, or even the likes of Neymar, Suarez...even Bale, i just don't think he's close to that level. The cult of personality overtakes reality on his front, IMO.
I'd say the opposite with Zlatan. Criminally underrated by many pundits. I wouldn't have him up with Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane, other Ronaldo, but I'd have him next tier for sure.
His record outside of France is also brilliant isn't it? OK 23 in 70 for Juve not amazing (although not bad - we'd take a striker like that now), but he had a tough time there. After that, he was away: 57 in 88 for Inter, 16 in 29 for Barca, 42 in 61 for Milan, 113 in 122 for PSG, 17 in 28 for United, even at 35. I'd say that's amazingly consistent - added to that I think I'm right in saying he won league championships for seven consecutive years. That's pretty incredible. Also 62 in 116 for a very average Sweden side. He can do it all - head, pass, dribble, score from distance, karate kick it in from 2 yards. Incredible player who for years was sniffed at by British pundits who maintained he'd never be able to do it in in England - when the truth is that he'd have smashed the PL up with ease in his prime. Great player. Wonderful to watch.
Think you make excellent points about Gerrard, but I'd have had him out the England team years before he retired. Never, ever performed in a major international championship, either, which was a real shame. I'm sure that bugs him. What angered me was just a few weeks after his celebrated dragging of Liverpool back into the West Ham FA Cup final despite being out on his feet, when it went to pens in the World Cup the look on his face on the halfway line was like a lost little boy's. He inevitably missed. Couldn't hack the pressure. He could lead when the pressure was off - 3-0 in the CL Final. But not when it was on - his mistake, remember, that cost Liverpool the title he did really deserve.
I'd say the merits you give to Gerrard were his deficits. Keane could have scored more goals - but he knew his role at United and that wasn't to get 20 goals (at Forest he got a goal every 5 games - a goal every 10 at United, and was a better payer for it). Benitez had real trouble with Gerrard, as England did, because he wanted to do it all. And that was not smart football. No coincidence that Benitez got the best out of him by playing him off Torres so that he had less chance or opportunity to go haring round the pitch like a madman. He just wasn't an intelligent enough footballer - nowehere near as smart as Scholes. And you're right that he was supposed to sit and let Lampard go forward, but he could never 'just' do that - that was one of the reasons that partnership never worked. Having said all that, he was a brilliant player. Don't think he was particularly overrated except by his biggest admirers, which is the same as any player really!
Bare bones.
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 17:08 - Nov 14 with 2201 views
Players everyone rates but you dont on 16:11 - Nov 14 by Antti_Heinola
I'd say the opposite with Zlatan. Criminally underrated by many pundits. I wouldn't have him up with Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane, other Ronaldo, but I'd have him next tier for sure.
His record outside of France is also brilliant isn't it? OK 23 in 70 for Juve not amazing (although not bad - we'd take a striker like that now), but he had a tough time there. After that, he was away: 57 in 88 for Inter, 16 in 29 for Barca, 42 in 61 for Milan, 113 in 122 for PSG, 17 in 28 for United, even at 35. I'd say that's amazingly consistent - added to that I think I'm right in saying he won league championships for seven consecutive years. That's pretty incredible. Also 62 in 116 for a very average Sweden side. He can do it all - head, pass, dribble, score from distance, karate kick it in from 2 yards. Incredible player who for years was sniffed at by British pundits who maintained he'd never be able to do it in in England - when the truth is that he'd have smashed the PL up with ease in his prime. Great player. Wonderful to watch.
Think you make excellent points about Gerrard, but I'd have had him out the England team years before he retired. Never, ever performed in a major international championship, either, which was a real shame. I'm sure that bugs him. What angered me was just a few weeks after his celebrated dragging of Liverpool back into the West Ham FA Cup final despite being out on his feet, when it went to pens in the World Cup the look on his face on the halfway line was like a lost little boy's. He inevitably missed. Couldn't hack the pressure. He could lead when the pressure was off - 3-0 in the CL Final. But not when it was on - his mistake, remember, that cost Liverpool the title he did really deserve.
I'd say the merits you give to Gerrard were his deficits. Keane could have scored more goals - but he knew his role at United and that wasn't to get 20 goals (at Forest he got a goal every 5 games - a goal every 10 at United, and was a better payer for it). Benitez had real trouble with Gerrard, as England did, because he wanted to do it all. And that was not smart football. No coincidence that Benitez got the best out of him by playing him off Torres so that he had less chance or opportunity to go haring round the pitch like a madman. He just wasn't an intelligent enough footballer - nowehere near as smart as Scholes. And you're right that he was supposed to sit and let Lampard go forward, but he could never 'just' do that - that was one of the reasons that partnership never worked. Having said all that, he was a brilliant player. Don't think he was particularly overrated except by his biggest admirers, which is the same as any player really!
All due respect, Antti, especially given what a great poster you are, but I think most of that is tosh, mate!!
"He could lead when the pressure was off "....err...what?! Cup finals? No pressure?
3-0 down in the CL final does not mean "the pressure is off". Far from it. Have you been in a hugely important moment in your career, and it's all going wrong, and you're in charge....and you think "ah, the pressure's off now"?? Nonsense. Had Liverpool lost that, Gerrard would have been criticised and made partly responsible given he was their leader. If he'd failed to rally them to fight back, he'd have been panned as a leader. The pressure was most certainly ON, and he stepped up. Same in a ding dong FA cup final. Same in countless big Prem games.
Completely disagree with your assessment of Benitez and Gerrard. He did do it all repeatedly. Liverpool didn't have the luxury Utd had with Keane and Scholes where they only needed to be asked to perform 1-2 roles. Gerrard had to perform all roles (and well) because Liverpool didn't have much else compared to those at the top table.
And for England, we'll just have to disagree. The issue wasn't that Gerrard couldn't do that sitting role; he could and did do it well. The issue was Lampard was not dynamic enough in the advanced role. His drifted in and out of games and never grabbed them as Gerrard could have done (and did for Liverpool) if Eng had given him a chance to rather than leashing him.
There's also a reason Gerrard was asked to play LW for England, and holding midfield too....even when they weren't his best positions...it was precisely because he WAS that intelligent a footballer. He could adapt and play different roles in a way Keane, Scholes and Lampard could not, were never asked to, and did not. That's a strength not a weakness. And it was selfless...like a good leader should be. It was precisely this meant England misused him.
Afraid we completely disagree. I think your narrative is that of all those who underrate him.
In terms of Zlatan, you prove my point. Those stats just aren't in the same league as Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, Suarez....he's in the tier down, which was all I was saying....but he behaves (and others adore the cult of Zlatan) as if he's at the same level as those players I mention.
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 14:37 - Nov 15 with 2045 views
Players everyone rates but you dont on 16:11 - Nov 14 by Antti_Heinola
I'd say the opposite with Zlatan. Criminally underrated by many pundits. I wouldn't have him up with Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane, other Ronaldo, but I'd have him next tier for sure.
His record outside of France is also brilliant isn't it? OK 23 in 70 for Juve not amazing (although not bad - we'd take a striker like that now), but he had a tough time there. After that, he was away: 57 in 88 for Inter, 16 in 29 for Barca, 42 in 61 for Milan, 113 in 122 for PSG, 17 in 28 for United, even at 35. I'd say that's amazingly consistent - added to that I think I'm right in saying he won league championships for seven consecutive years. That's pretty incredible. Also 62 in 116 for a very average Sweden side. He can do it all - head, pass, dribble, score from distance, karate kick it in from 2 yards. Incredible player who for years was sniffed at by British pundits who maintained he'd never be able to do it in in England - when the truth is that he'd have smashed the PL up with ease in his prime. Great player. Wonderful to watch.
Think you make excellent points about Gerrard, but I'd have had him out the England team years before he retired. Never, ever performed in a major international championship, either, which was a real shame. I'm sure that bugs him. What angered me was just a few weeks after his celebrated dragging of Liverpool back into the West Ham FA Cup final despite being out on his feet, when it went to pens in the World Cup the look on his face on the halfway line was like a lost little boy's. He inevitably missed. Couldn't hack the pressure. He could lead when the pressure was off - 3-0 in the CL Final. But not when it was on - his mistake, remember, that cost Liverpool the title he did really deserve.
I'd say the merits you give to Gerrard were his deficits. Keane could have scored more goals - but he knew his role at United and that wasn't to get 20 goals (at Forest he got a goal every 5 games - a goal every 10 at United, and was a better payer for it). Benitez had real trouble with Gerrard, as England did, because he wanted to do it all. And that was not smart football. No coincidence that Benitez got the best out of him by playing him off Torres so that he had less chance or opportunity to go haring round the pitch like a madman. He just wasn't an intelligent enough footballer - nowehere near as smart as Scholes. And you're right that he was supposed to sit and let Lampard go forward, but he could never 'just' do that - that was one of the reasons that partnership never worked. Having said all that, he was a brilliant player. Don't think he was particularly overrated except by his biggest admirers, which is the same as any player really!
Zlatan has spent most of his career playing in backwater leagues and couldn't hack it at Barcelona.
Granted he did well in the Premiership last season but I'll always remember him as a player who no showed big games and scored most of his goals during weak eras in France, Italy etc.
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 16:04 - Nov 15 with 2007 views
Players everyone rates but you dont on 20:33 - Nov 14 by Hunterhoop
All due respect, Antti, especially given what a great poster you are, but I think most of that is tosh, mate!!
"He could lead when the pressure was off "....err...what?! Cup finals? No pressure?
3-0 down in the CL final does not mean "the pressure is off". Far from it. Have you been in a hugely important moment in your career, and it's all going wrong, and you're in charge....and you think "ah, the pressure's off now"?? Nonsense. Had Liverpool lost that, Gerrard would have been criticised and made partly responsible given he was their leader. If he'd failed to rally them to fight back, he'd have been panned as a leader. The pressure was most certainly ON, and he stepped up. Same in a ding dong FA cup final. Same in countless big Prem games.
Completely disagree with your assessment of Benitez and Gerrard. He did do it all repeatedly. Liverpool didn't have the luxury Utd had with Keane and Scholes where they only needed to be asked to perform 1-2 roles. Gerrard had to perform all roles (and well) because Liverpool didn't have much else compared to those at the top table.
And for England, we'll just have to disagree. The issue wasn't that Gerrard couldn't do that sitting role; he could and did do it well. The issue was Lampard was not dynamic enough in the advanced role. His drifted in and out of games and never grabbed them as Gerrard could have done (and did for Liverpool) if Eng had given him a chance to rather than leashing him.
There's also a reason Gerrard was asked to play LW for England, and holding midfield too....even when they weren't his best positions...it was precisely because he WAS that intelligent a footballer. He could adapt and play different roles in a way Keane, Scholes and Lampard could not, were never asked to, and did not. That's a strength not a weakness. And it was selfless...like a good leader should be. It was precisely this meant England misused him.
Afraid we completely disagree. I think your narrative is that of all those who underrate him.
In terms of Zlatan, you prove my point. Those stats just aren't in the same league as Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, Suarez....he's in the tier down, which was all I was saying....but he behaves (and others adore the cult of Zlatan) as if he's at the same level as those players I mention.
Love your posts too mate, but we'll disagree on Gerrard! Of course the pressure was off. They were 3-0 down. It couldn't get much worse. The game was over. If he was such a great leader, what happened first half? That was when the pressure was really on. After that, he had nothing to lose. He was adaptable, I don't deny it. But he wasn't played left *because* he was adaptable, it was because managers didn't want to drop him when really only two of him Lampard and Scholes should have played. Both Scholes and Gerrard got shifted about because of their ability to adapt (Scholes played a lot on the left for England), but the reality is those three shouldn't have played in the same side, unless, perhaps, as part of a 4-3-3. Benitez certainly struggled with Gerrard's inability to play a particular role - his whole problem with Gerrard was that he wanted to do it all, and often to the detriment of his team, but yes he was brilliant and he was everywhere, so that went unnoticed. His lack of tactical discipline is really a great example of why England are such a poor side at international level in my opinion. Also, I'll never forget Gerrard totally disappearing the night we came back to beat them 3-2. Like a meek mouse as we steamrollered his team. Sorry mate, just don't buy it. Extremely good player, could and should have been so much better. To say Liverpool didn't have the same options as United - they had Hamann and the superb Alonso. It's not like he was trying to make do with playing next to Jake Livermore is it?
Trainman, Italy may have been a weaker league than the Prem, but it's still always been harder to score goals there than here. It's probably the hardest place to get regular goals, even now. He could hack Barca - a goal every other game, but Pep froze him out. Literally scored goals and won championships everywhere he's been (except here). Phenomenal player if not, totally agree, Messi level. Who is?
Bare bones.
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Players everyone rates but you dont on 17:06 - Nov 15 with 1954 views
Players everyone rates but you dont on 16:04 - Nov 15 by Antti_Heinola
Love your posts too mate, but we'll disagree on Gerrard! Of course the pressure was off. They were 3-0 down. It couldn't get much worse. The game was over. If he was such a great leader, what happened first half? That was when the pressure was really on. After that, he had nothing to lose. He was adaptable, I don't deny it. But he wasn't played left *because* he was adaptable, it was because managers didn't want to drop him when really only two of him Lampard and Scholes should have played. Both Scholes and Gerrard got shifted about because of their ability to adapt (Scholes played a lot on the left for England), but the reality is those three shouldn't have played in the same side, unless, perhaps, as part of a 4-3-3. Benitez certainly struggled with Gerrard's inability to play a particular role - his whole problem with Gerrard was that he wanted to do it all, and often to the detriment of his team, but yes he was brilliant and he was everywhere, so that went unnoticed. His lack of tactical discipline is really a great example of why England are such a poor side at international level in my opinion. Also, I'll never forget Gerrard totally disappearing the night we came back to beat them 3-2. Like a meek mouse as we steamrollered his team. Sorry mate, just don't buy it. Extremely good player, could and should have been so much better. To say Liverpool didn't have the same options as United - they had Hamann and the superb Alonso. It's not like he was trying to make do with playing next to Jake Livermore is it?
Trainman, Italy may have been a weaker league than the Prem, but it's still always been harder to score goals there than here. It's probably the hardest place to get regular goals, even now. He could hack Barca - a goal every other game, but Pep froze him out. Literally scored goals and won championships everywhere he's been (except here). Phenomenal player if not, totally agree, Messi level. Who is?
The difference is that Zlatan was playing for the best team in Serie A and Ligue A by some distance. So it was without doubt easier to score goals.
Guardiola froze Zlatan out because he started causing problems when he couldn't get in the Barcelona team.
That was his chance to show that he's a world class player and he couldn't cut it so ended up going back to a weaker league.
I'm not saying that he's a poor player but for me he's not world class.
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