| Substitutes 17:51 - Nov 18 with 4062 views | VancouverHoop |
Why are almost all managers so predictable when it comes to substitutions?
Unless there's a serious injury they almost all make two subs for tactical reasons between 60' & 70', and save one for late on to waste time (if leading) or out of desperation (if losing.)
Today Olly had clearly decided he'd sub Luongo for Manning at HT, as the former would be jet lagged and needed on Tuesday. Fair enough. But why wait until the 63' when we'd conceded the second goal, to take off Cousins? He'd played well enough until he got a knock midway through the first half, after that he ceased to be a factor which gave Villa's speedy forwards the run of our right side. Why hang him, and Baptiste who was vainly trying to cover for him, out to dry when there were three possible subs for his position on the bench?
I'm not digging out Holloway here, as I say it seems to be hard-wired lack of managerial creativity throughout the game. Or perhaps I'm missing something...? |  | | |  |
| Substitutes on 18:00 - Nov 18 with 3289 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
I've always said infinite roll on roll off subs would be class for the game, and for player unity too.
I'm guessing Holloway has his hands tied with subs most of the time because of the current injuries and jet lag he has on his hands. Some of those subs might not have had any mileage in them. |  | | |
| Substitutes on 19:13 - Nov 18 with 3152 views | Lblock |
Jet lag? It’s bollox isn’t it? You’re either fit or you’re not
As one of our lot said - did Luongo fall asleep during the half time team talk or something ?!
I reckon he wanted to watch the rugby
Ollies subs are baffling sometimes and today one of those days
For me we lost that game in the three minutes between the harsh penalty and that change. Where the hell was Manning playing when he came on? |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
| |
| Substitutes on 19:36 - Nov 18 with 3108 views | actonman |
Yeah , them subs where a waste of time today. Unless luongo was asking to come off or injured visibly lacking then why ? Just why ? It's not like manning is playing most weeks and battling for his position !
Wash didn't get a sniff , did he actually come on ?
Sylla , same , I was shouting for sylla to come on as I thought he might give them problems while samba was busy tucking smith in his pocket but no we just carried on pumping it to smith to try and out jump a 6.5 foot giant ?
Another day it might have worked but when you make subs and carry on playing the same way that wasn't working in the first place then you get what you deserve.
I will mention it again but has the art of running down the wing and crossing the ball been banished to room 101 ?
I don't care how big you are as a central defender, running at them or crossing balls while they are running back and trying mark strikers ain't their bag ! Launching balls in the air 30 foot straight at them with a striker with his back to goal is like Christmas come early |  | | |
| Substitutes on 19:49 - Nov 18 with 3078 views | Hunterhoop |
| Substitutes on 19:13 - Nov 18 by Lblock |
Jet lag? It’s bollox isn’t it? You’re either fit or you’re not
As one of our lot said - did Luongo fall asleep during the half time team talk or something ?!
I reckon he wanted to watch the rugby
Ollies subs are baffling sometimes and today one of those days
For me we lost that game in the three minutes between the harsh penalty and that change. Where the hell was Manning playing when he came on? |
Luongo was the best player on the pitch in the first half. The difference in the second half without him was staggering.
If you think it's all about Scowen and/or Freeman, think again! Best case in point of showing his it's all about Luongo; he's our glue; he breaks up the oppo; he is our best player. We are far weaker without him. |  | | |
| Substitutes on 20:08 - Nov 18 with 3048 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Substitutes on 19:49 - Nov 18 by Hunterhoop |
Luongo was the best player on the pitch in the first half. The difference in the second half without him was staggering.
If you think it's all about Scowen and/or Freeman, think again! Best case in point of showing his it's all about Luongo; he's our glue; he breaks up the oppo; he is our best player. We are far weaker without him. |
Luongo is the footballing equivalent of this dress:
 | | | |
| Substitutes on 20:19 - Nov 18 with 3031 views | bosh67 |
If anyone else tells me that Cousins was playing well I will doubt I am living in the real world. He's not fit, he gets turned inside out, he can't tackle and he contributes nothing down the right at all. No idea why he is on the pitch because we have players that are so much better, faster, more clever and fitter. He looks like a fan in a shirt most of the time. That may be because he never looks remotely fit. [Post edited 18 Nov 2017 20:20]
|  |
| |
| Substitutes on 20:23 - Nov 18 with 3024 views | smegma |
Talking of subs, Jamie Mackie, 13 starts. Hasn't completed 90 minutes yet this season. Hmmmmm. | | | |
| Substitutes on 00:52 - Nov 19 with 2906 views | Hunterhoop |
| Substitutes on 20:08 - Nov 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Luongo is the footballing equivalent of this dress:
|
No. He's not. That's an insult to Luongo and an insult to anyone who knows anything about football. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Substitutes on 01:26 - Nov 19 with 2885 views | Boston |
| Substitutes on 00:52 - Nov 19 by Hunterhoop |
No. He's not. That's an insult to Luongo and an insult to anyone who knows anything about football. |
Bounder...Cad...
 | |
| |
| Substitutes on 02:07 - Nov 19 with 2874 views | timcocking |
| Substitutes on 20:19 - Nov 18 by bosh67 |
If anyone else tells me that Cousins was playing well I will doubt I am living in the real world. He's not fit, he gets turned inside out, he can't tackle and he contributes nothing down the right at all. No idea why he is on the pitch because we have players that are so much better, faster, more clever and fitter. He looks like a fan in a shirt most of the time. That may be because he never looks remotely fit. [Post edited 18 Nov 2017 20:20]
|
?
Bit of a weird post Bosh?
Not saying he played well, but Cousins pretty much our best athlete. I imagine he's our fittest and fastest player. Obviously not settled yet, he's been out for ages. He's absolutely tailor made for wingback. No doubt he's one of our best assets, if he can stay fit. He's barely played for us yet. |  | | |
| Substitutes on 10:32 - Nov 19 with 2780 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Substitutes on 00:52 - Nov 19 by Hunterhoop |
No. He's not. That's an insult to Luongo and an insult to anyone who knows anything about football. |
Reasonable response. | | | |
| Substitutes on 10:58 - Nov 19 with 2754 views | ozranger |
I think this thread and the Mackie thread could be brought together. What it appears is that Mackie cannot last the full 90 and he has not. The problem for Olly is to make sure that he has more than just his expected/forced options. By starting with Mackie, as everyone states, he will have to be substituted. That is one sub gone before the game starts. If Olly knows that Cousins cannot make it through as he is still getting back to fitness, then that is two subs gone prior to kickoff. If Olly knew that Luongo was ill on Friday, as has been suggested above, and thus may not be able to make it through the game then that is three subs gone already before a ball is kicked. Thus, one should ask why was such a starting lineup chosen, knowing that the three subs were already going to be made at some stage in the game's proceedings? Luongo would obviously be the player best to start of the three and that should really mean, to allow for a better chance to take advantage of other options for subs, that either Cousins or Mackie should not have started. I am sure that this could really start a separate debate. The answer lies in who can be best played in those two positions if one of Cousins or Mackie were not to start. Washington for Mackie or Wheeler/Furlong for Cousins? I know this is sort of moving away from the original question by the OP but I think it should also be viewed. |  | | |
| Substitutes on 11:05 - Nov 19 with 2745 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
When you are a club under the cosh financially, players that can’t last 90 minutes or play for distant countries are part and parcel.
Having the freedom to sub who you want when you want is a luxury beyond our means at the moment. | | | |
| Substitutes on 11:13 - Nov 19 with 2738 views | essextaxiboy |
There is a good player in Cousins , we know that because of his form at Charlton . Everyone seemed ok with it when he signed .
He has been unlucky with injury though and played out of position when he has played.
He isnt fully fit yet , thats obvious and is totally unsuited to providing cover for someone like Baptiste . We got out of jail once once in the first half when they broke on us and he just didnt get back but the guy pushed his shot past the post .
Thats no reflection on Baptiste who has been a revelation in the number of games and his consistency , but teams are watching and planning for our weaknesses .
Cousins , IMO has to accept that he is behind the 3 amigos and maybe Manning for a central midfield spot , bide his time build his fitness and take his chance if it comes.
Ollie has to trust Furlong a bit more IMO or play Pav back into form , or find another way in Jan . |  | | |
| Substitutes on 11:33 - Nov 19 with 2716 views | sexton |
I think I'm right in saying Cousins has been subbed in all his appearances this season, presumably because he isn't fit. So that's one of our subs used up. And Mackie. |  | | |
| Substitutes on 11:50 - Nov 19 with 2699 views | Hunterhoop |
I just think that sort of talk furthers this ridiculous narrative that it's perfectly reasonable to not rate Luongo, contrary to all evidence, statistics, and basic common sense. I just don't get it. Everyone should love him. | | | |
| Substitutes on 13:47 - Nov 19 with 2647 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Substitutes on 11:50 - Nov 19 by Hunterhoop |
I just think that sort of talk furthers this ridiculous narrative that it's perfectly reasonable to not rate Luongo, contrary to all evidence, statistics, and basic common sense. I just don't get it. Everyone should love him. |
I think he's the best player in the squad personally.
I Just trying to say different people see him very differently and neither side can understand where the other is coming from.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2017 16:39]
| | | |
| Substitutes on 16:38 - Nov 19 with 2578 views | BklynRanger |
Instead of bringing on Manning I'd have liked to see Cousins move into Luongo's position - a far more natural fit for him anyway. Furlong could have then come on to help Baptiste with his getting-run-ragged situation. And why Washington came on before Sylla is beyond me. |  | | |
| Substitutes on 18:30 - Nov 19 with 2529 views | VancouverHoop |
| Substitutes on 16:38 - Nov 19 by BklynRanger |
Instead of bringing on Manning I'd have liked to see Cousins move into Luongo's position - a far more natural fit for him anyway. Furlong could have then come on to help Baptiste with his getting-run-ragged situation. And why Washington came on before Sylla is beyond me. |
Yeah, that one was a particular puzzler. I guess you might argue Sylla was being saved for Derby on Tuesday. But most likely that'll be scotched when Washington and Mackie start.
I wonder if the striker shuffle isn't a bit of a red herring though. They are all producing goals , but we're getting zilch from elsewhere. Our strength's our mid-field, certainly, but how many goals have they produced? Similarly our central defence do SFA from corners. Yes it's important they do their main jobs first, but you'd hope, and expect, them to pop in a few. | | | |
| Substitutes on 18:39 - Nov 19 with 2514 views | joolsyp |
| Substitutes on 16:38 - Nov 19 by BklynRanger |
Instead of bringing on Manning I'd have liked to see Cousins move into Luongo's position - a far more natural fit for him anyway. Furlong could have then come on to help Baptiste with his getting-run-ragged situation. And why Washington came on before Sylla is beyond me. |
This. Thought it at the time and still think it would have been the right move. |  | | |
| Substitutes on 19:02 - Nov 19 with 2502 views | oldmisery |
| Substitutes on 18:30 - Nov 19 by VancouverHoop |
Yeah, that one was a particular puzzler. I guess you might argue Sylla was being saved for Derby on Tuesday. But most likely that'll be scotched when Washington and Mackie start.
I wonder if the striker shuffle isn't a bit of a red herring though. They are all producing goals , but we're getting zilch from elsewhere. Our strength's our mid-field, certainly, but how many goals have they produced? Similarly our central defence do SFA from corners. Yes it's important they do their main jobs first, but you'd hope, and expect, them to pop in a few. |
In any given season you would hope/expect goals to be scored from all areas of the pitch.
You may think the midfielders should score, say, 20 goals between them over the season and the central defenders to get perhaps 10 - 12 over the same period.
So far this season Freeman (2) Luongo (1) and Scowen (0) have 3 between them in a combined 51 appearances. The Centre Backs fare even worse with no goals coming from either Baptiste, Lynch, Robinson and The Chief in a combined 43 appearances.
I don't know the answer but that is surely part of the problem. | | | |
| Substitutes on 19:10 - Nov 19 with 2497 views | VancouverHoop |
| Substitutes on 19:02 - Nov 19 by oldmisery |
In any given season you would hope/expect goals to be scored from all areas of the pitch.
You may think the midfielders should score, say, 20 goals between them over the season and the central defenders to get perhaps 10 - 12 over the same period.
So far this season Freeman (2) Luongo (1) and Scowen (0) have 3 between them in a combined 51 appearances. The Centre Backs fare even worse with no goals coming from either Baptiste, Lynch, Robinson and The Chief in a combined 43 appearances.
I don't know the answer but that is surely part of the problem. |
Thanks for the stats. They support my impression, [Post edited 19 Nov 2017 19:11]
| | | |
| Substitutes on 19:37 - Nov 19 with 2475 views | gazza1 |
Luongo is a far better player this season than last. We missed him when he was taken off at half time - I hope IH took him off at half time because he was injured and not because he was tired, if IH did take him off to rest then IH makes yet another mistake(We will see if Luongo plays at Derby on Tuesday).
As for Lunogo being better then our other 2 centre midfielders(Scowen & Freeman) is debateable - I like Scowen personally.
Cousins was limping in the first half, about 35 odd minutes and felt sure he would be replaced - he wasn't but he was still limping when he came out for the 2nd half. When he was replaced I fail to see why Furlong was not his replacement.
I am frequently unhappy with IH substitutions. | | | |
| Substitutes on 22:51 - Nov 19 with 2389 views | bob566 |
| Substitutes on 19:02 - Nov 19 by oldmisery |
In any given season you would hope/expect goals to be scored from all areas of the pitch.
You may think the midfielders should score, say, 20 goals between them over the season and the central defenders to get perhaps 10 - 12 over the same period.
So far this season Freeman (2) Luongo (1) and Scowen (0) have 3 between them in a combined 51 appearances. The Centre Backs fare even worse with no goals coming from either Baptiste, Lynch, Robinson and The Chief in a combined 43 appearances.
I don't know the answer but that is surely part of the problem. |
This. Sick of hearing how good the midfield trio is. I want manning to get a game before his confidence is shot. | | | |
| Substitutes on 02:31 - Nov 20 with 2355 views | timcocking |
Well, they only have three they can make. One sub, will be a goalie, another two defenders. That means there are probably 4 players, two strikers two attacking mids. Substituition before half time and you've lost the squad. After 80 minutes a waste of time probably. So the only thing there is to do is make two subs between 55 and 80 minutes, the losing team bringing on an extra striker or attacking mid. So there isn't really anything else to do. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
