| Advise Please (HR Related ) 12:52 - Jan 5 with 22980 views | paulparker |
ok so at work we have a woman who is very, very , very racist and outspoken
I have now clashed with this woman as she has been "bullying" other people and I cannot sit by and watch that ( I hate bullys) , to the trained eye I look like the aggressor because i stood up for her and told her to f off as a male I can see how this looks
I have now made a complaint to the upper management about her "comments " about other races , some of it is very near the knuckle
now am I wrong to do this? have I opened up a huge can of worms for myself
most of the office floor are blanking me
as anyone else had to do this ?
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| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 16:08 - Jan 10 with 3789 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 15:53 - Jan 10 by paulparker |
I don't want to do the mediation but my "boss" thinks that by me not doing it im showing myself as the person who is in the wrong because she apparently leapt at the chance,
I plan on saying that "spear chucker " etc makes me feel uncomfortable and that I don't want to be around that language or be around people being bullied
hopefully with this tactic she goes down the route of "its banter" or "ive taken it the wrong way" etc that way she drops herself in it if it goes further
the funny thing is she effs and jeffs like a navvy and had a stand up row with our credit manager the other week resulting in them having a ding dong outside the premises
this woman is a hypocrite of the highest order |
Do the mediation mate.
Here’s some tips I always tell my members when attending mediation, disciplinaries, or fact finding interviews :
- Be calm
- Don’t rush answers or jump into silences from the mediator.
- Be succinct.
- Take a adjournment if you feel it isn’t going your way.
- Don’t offer anything that isn’t asked for, even if you think it will score you points. Your rep / workplace colleague can do that.
I suspect that mediation means the’re not intending to discipline anyone anyway. [Post edited 10 Jan 2018 16:15]
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 16:19 - Jan 10 with 3738 views | Dorse |
Mediation is a convenient cop-out by the company as it effectively frames the whole thing as two colleagues falling out. Tactically, they have placed you at a disadvantage as they do not have to address the core issue: her use of racist language.
However, the fact that you are agreeing to mediation means that you are able to bring her language and behaviour to light in front of HR. You've already been given great advice from so many others on here and I won't labour the point.
Be open about what you did, own it early and apologise succinctly. You can point out that it is actually out of character: after all, it's not like you've ever done it before! Then move onto the reasons for your outburst: Neil's advice is brilliant on this point.
Open body-language, open gestures, positive statements rather than reactions. Take a breath before biting. If she's looking to push your buttons, let her: anyone watching will see her try something that doesn't come off.
They already know what you said: you've owned it. What they don't know is what she said and why it prompted such a strong reaction. You have not done anything you're not owning up to. She has and will try to use any means necessary to hide it. Not to get too philosophical but remember 'satyagraha': 'the weapon of truth'. The truth is objective and needs no explaining. No matter what lies, half-truths, strategems etc employed against it, the truth remains unaltered.
If you don't feel that the session has resolved anything then make an appointment to see the relevant decision-maker(s) at another time but don't leave that room without looking like you are anything other than positive. Also, ask yourself what you want to achieve from this. If it is a change in her behaviour and this process achieves that end, then good. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 16:25 - Jan 10 with 3715 views | stevec |
Sounds like you are totally in the right but when you bring up her racist comments and mention it's been happening long term, i'm guessing you might get asked why you hadn't mentioned it before (assume you hadn't?). In which case have a good answer that covers it.
On the other hand, if you have, it puts the Company on the back foot big time. You shouldn't have any problems after that.
Fck, work is a proper minefield these days. Used to get sorted with a massive row and 5 minutes later, all forgotten about. Good luck though, PP. |  | | |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 16:27 - Jan 10 with 3727 views | hopphoops |
Last but not least, focus on not calling her a munter or hedgepig. |  |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 16:36 - Jan 10 with 3698 views | stevec |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 16:27 - Jan 10 by hopphoops |
Last but not least, focus on not calling her a munter or hedgepig. |
Yeah, and hope she don't read QPR message boards | | | |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 17:26 - Jan 10 with 3656 views | RangersDave |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 16:36 - Jan 10 by stevec |
Yeah, and hope she don't read QPR message boards |
By her attitude she’s more than likely a chelscum fan, and sister of John Terry! |  |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 19:45 - Jan 10 with 3572 views | Ashdown_Ranger |
Well, mediation is better than nothing.
Meetings will be recorded (or minutes kept at least) and it can't be swept under the carpet.
The vileness of racism is self-evident. If the company hierarchy don't get it, then put it terms they might understand...
Racism causes friction in the workplace, productivity suffers, staff turnover increases, more days are taken off 'sick'.
If the company gets a name for supporting racism - or at the very least, doing nothing to quash it - key customers and suppliers could walk, share prices could be affected - especially if it gets out on social media.
Oh, and directors' bonuses shrink (that might get their attention...)
Quiet, confident assertiveness. Don't make it personal about 'the woman' - make it specifically about her words, nothing else. Words that could very well have been spoken by anyone, man or woman. You don't want to turn a racist argument (with her at fault) into a sexist one (where she turns the blame on you). |  | | |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 22:16 - Jan 10 with 3509 views | qprjeff1882 |
If you have to have any 'meetings' or one on ones with anyone over this then you are within your rights to record it all if you suspect it could either go against you or they may brush it under the carpet. I had similar where my old boss was very verbally abusive and no one would dare speak against him. |  | | |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 23:16 - Jan 10 with 3469 views | johncharles |
You’ve been getting some great advice on here. Should have boosted your confidence. It’s a real piss off situation to be in. You’ve got friends.
Be polite and honest and attentive but let them know this is more than an office spat. Buy some new plastic files from Smiths. Nice shiny new ones and leave price tag/receipts on them to show that you’ve been doing your research in the last couple of weeks. They’ll think you know more about the situation than they do and let’s face it, by now, you probably do. [Post edited 10 Jan 2018 23:25]
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| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 23:28 - Jan 10 with 3453 views | Konk |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 15:59 - Jan 10 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
She will be all sweetness and light and will fight dirty.
You will be Mr Nasty, you can bank on her playing it that way. |
Good for you, PP. Stay calm, be reasonable, agree to any sort of chat and hopefully at worst, she’ll have to start behaving properly from now on. She’ll be arguing you’re aggressive and overly touchy - you have to show the opposite. Go zen. Mediation is obviously the simple/cheap route for your work, but your specific complaints will be on official record. You’ve done your bit - chapeau! - as we say in lefty cycling circles. Good luck - keep fighting the good fight. Peace out. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 04:13 - Jan 11 with 3354 views | EastLondonR |
Fair play to you for making a stand. Loads of good advice from everyone here but I just wanted to add a couple of things.
You mentioned that in your 1-2-1's over the last 6 months you had raised the issue of the racist manager. Usually 1-2-1's are documented and if this is the case you should imo raise this at the mediation. Your line manager has a duty to advise HR of your concerns. If the individual fails to do so the Company will be in trouble if the matter ultimately gets to a tribunal. Someone correctly pointed out that most businesses lose at tribunals against employees due to not following procedures or not having documented policies.
The company are trying to sweep this under the carpet otherwise they would not be going down this route. All of these meetings with HR will be documented but you are entitled to a copy of same and frankly HR should be circulating minutes of all meetings with the participants afterwards and asking for their signatures for approval to confirm the minutes are accurate. The mediation will be the same and by you getting in that you have had to suffer open racism over the last 3 years to the extent you raised it in your last 1-2-1's is the reason you lost it and openly swore at the manager. This is a mitigating factor behind your behaviour which will be against your company's terms and conditions of employment.
That said, I don't believe the company are going down the route of dishing out punishment to you both otherwise they would not be setting up a mediation. My knowledge of any other meetings with HR is as others have said, that you are entitled to take someone in with you and you should do so as they should take notes for you as it would be difficult for anyone to do so whilst also answering questions. I always believed the person you took in was not allowed to say anything unless specifically asked?
I am pretty sure any racism is gross misconduct which is instant dismissal. The problem you have is proving it but at least this whole incident will now be on record and if the manager does it again in the future and anyone reports her she should get the boot.
Best of luck mate. Never posted before despite reading this site for 10 years plus but felt compelled to try to help you as it is not easy making a stand against a more senior person and it is sad when no one steps up to back you when all you were doing was looking out for them in the first place! [Post edited 11 Jan 2018 4:18]
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 04:40 - Jan 11 with 3340 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 12:17 - Jan 10 by paulparker |
ok , a quick update here
the bigot has made a counter claim against me for threatening behaviour (no surprise)
one of the bosses has asked me to do a mediation session with her and HR to "iron these differences out"
is this the companies way of trying to sweep it under the carpet or do I do this and let her do the talking and hope she hangs her self
or do I let her carry on and hope people come out and back my side of the story |
Pretty much as I predicted back on page 1.
I assume no one has backed you? In which case you’re somewhat backed into the mediation route. Now I don’t know who you work for, but anyone suggesting this will be swayed by publicity, is talking out their ‘arris!
There’s a lot worse than this going on everyday in the workplace and hundreds of discrimination cases before an ET that don’t open the 10o/c news. However, if you work in the public sector, then you should point to the duty such organisations are under to eradicate discrimination.
I’d also suggest that you prepare in advance and detail as best you can, each and every incident and ensure that: the inappropriateness is highlighted and, that weak pissy HR note it in the minutes - which you’ll ask for a copy of and which you’ll ensure is correct.
You may also need to get your defence straight to her allegations. Why you said/did what you did because of..... By any chance have you and/or others told her to stop or such like?
She’ll also be in receipt of advice and HR will hope to drive thus toward kisses and making up. However, from your point of view, you want to see how this is recorded in your personnel file. I’m sure you can work out why!
Feel free to PM me, as this was once my stock in trade. |  |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 08:54 - Jan 11 with 3268 views | paulparker |
thanks for all the advice once again lads & lasses ive never had any aggro before in any work company so your posts are very welcome and have helped a lot
Mrs P has made peace with the father in law ( a union man ) so he is going to represent me , me telling them this has made them sh1t themselves they are now backtracking and saying its between me , the bigot and the lady in HR and at this stage I shouldn't have anyone with me(its an informal chat , is what they are saying)
now here is the cruncher my boss has only been with the company for 7 months but has never recorded a meeting between us either in writing or on tape , everything Ive said has been between the four walls , where I stand on this I don't know as ive been banging on about her behaviour and the behaviour of her other bullying friends for months, the funny thing is my boss said to me in her first week in charge that there was a bullying culture around the office and she was aware of the culprits ,
its now also transpired that one of her many band of followers has accused me of having an affair with my boss to the top brass, ( honestly you cannot make this stuff up., I never knew middle aged woman could be so bitter and twisted )
I do know a couple of people who have backed me as they were called in to the office , and senior boss where I work has actually said I believe you but there is nothing we can do to get rid of this woman | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 09:14 - Jan 11 with 3229 views | karl |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 08:54 - Jan 11 by paulparker |
thanks for all the advice once again lads & lasses ive never had any aggro before in any work company so your posts are very welcome and have helped a lot
Mrs P has made peace with the father in law ( a union man ) so he is going to represent me , me telling them this has made them sh1t themselves they are now backtracking and saying its between me , the bigot and the lady in HR and at this stage I shouldn't have anyone with me(its an informal chat , is what they are saying)
now here is the cruncher my boss has only been with the company for 7 months but has never recorded a meeting between us either in writing or on tape , everything Ive said has been between the four walls , where I stand on this I don't know as ive been banging on about her behaviour and the behaviour of her other bullying friends for months, the funny thing is my boss said to me in her first week in charge that there was a bullying culture around the office and she was aware of the culprits ,
its now also transpired that one of her many band of followers has accused me of having an affair with my boss to the top brass, ( honestly you cannot make this stuff up., I never knew middle aged woman could be so bitter and twisted )
I do know a couple of people who have backed me as they were called in to the office , and senior boss where I work has actually said I believe you but there is nothing we can do to get rid of this woman |
Good luck PP, sorry I have no advice to offer but looks like there's plenty on offer from others which is great as it sounds like a very difficult situation. Keep your head up |  | | |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 09:51 - Jan 11 with 3190 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 08:54 - Jan 11 by paulparker |
thanks for all the advice once again lads & lasses ive never had any aggro before in any work company so your posts are very welcome and have helped a lot
Mrs P has made peace with the father in law ( a union man ) so he is going to represent me , me telling them this has made them sh1t themselves they are now backtracking and saying its between me , the bigot and the lady in HR and at this stage I shouldn't have anyone with me(its an informal chat , is what they are saying)
now here is the cruncher my boss has only been with the company for 7 months but has never recorded a meeting between us either in writing or on tape , everything Ive said has been between the four walls , where I stand on this I don't know as ive been banging on about her behaviour and the behaviour of her other bullying friends for months, the funny thing is my boss said to me in her first week in charge that there was a bullying culture around the office and she was aware of the culprits ,
its now also transpired that one of her many band of followers has accused me of having an affair with my boss to the top brass, ( honestly you cannot make this stuff up., I never knew middle aged woman could be so bitter and twisted )
I do know a couple of people who have backed me as they were called in to the office , and senior boss where I work has actually said I believe you but there is nothing we can do to get rid of this woman |
Here is a valid lesson for all. Namely, the value of confirming things in writing and keeping a copy.
As I predicted, your HR is like most HR departments, shit scared of their own shadow and your big boss is a moron if s/he says you cannot get rid of someone or, alternatively, issue warnings. That’s why you have effing disciplinary procedures!
If your boss ‘knows’ and nothing has been done, then not only are they a shower of monkey gizz, but they are culpable. You’re not entitled to a rep in a chat, but as I said earlier: take a note if they don’t; send them a copy and ask them to confirm your record as a true and accurate account and, ‘nudge’ with pointed emphasis on the juicy bits.
This type of deliberate avoidance by HR is the thing that used to boil my piss! If it were me, I’d like to get in a comment like: ‘Having raised these concerns previously with (insert names, dates, conversations) I’m concerned that an outsider could form a view that there has been a failure to act upon the institutional knowledge of a bullying and potentially, racist culture within the organisation; which may potentially be seen to have contributed to and/or facilitated these alleged behaviours to go unchecked’.
Bit incendiary, but I first mentioned victimisation (as understood in law) and what is paramount is that your ‘whistleblowing’ doesn’t come back to bite you on the butt. As I said, she’ll counter with a complaint but by trying to show you and maybe others have raised allegations and, the organisation had prior knowledge, offers you some protection.
Now I don’t know about her allegations against you, which might be valid, but your firm could be like a poor ref in a game between a big side at home against say, QPR, who finally books a player from the home side, and under pressure feels he has to even the score and book one of ours.
If anyone has a decent HR department at their workplace, treasure them as your in the minority! Timid do nothings who metely seek to cover their derrières by doing nothing that might involve making a decision....world over!! | |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 10:35 - Jan 11 with 3152 views | PunteR |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 08:54 - Jan 11 by paulparker |
thanks for all the advice once again lads & lasses ive never had any aggro before in any work company so your posts are very welcome and have helped a lot
Mrs P has made peace with the father in law ( a union man ) so he is going to represent me , me telling them this has made them sh1t themselves they are now backtracking and saying its between me , the bigot and the lady in HR and at this stage I shouldn't have anyone with me(its an informal chat , is what they are saying)
now here is the cruncher my boss has only been with the company for 7 months but has never recorded a meeting between us either in writing or on tape , everything Ive said has been between the four walls , where I stand on this I don't know as ive been banging on about her behaviour and the behaviour of her other bullying friends for months, the funny thing is my boss said to me in her first week in charge that there was a bullying culture around the office and she was aware of the culprits ,
its now also transpired that one of her many band of followers has accused me of having an affair with my boss to the top brass, ( honestly you cannot make this stuff up., I never knew middle aged woman could be so bitter and twisted )
I do know a couple of people who have backed me as they were called in to the office , and senior boss where I work has actually said I believe you but there is nothing we can do to get rid of this woman |
Theres old posts on here from you about that work colleague, im sure you've mentioned her before.
Hope it sorts itself out mate. You've had great advice on here. Try not to lose sleep over it as you've done the right thing. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 11:11 - Jan 11 with 3116 views | Brightonhoop |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 08:54 - Jan 11 by paulparker |
thanks for all the advice once again lads & lasses ive never had any aggro before in any work company so your posts are very welcome and have helped a lot
Mrs P has made peace with the father in law ( a union man ) so he is going to represent me , me telling them this has made them sh1t themselves they are now backtracking and saying its between me , the bigot and the lady in HR and at this stage I shouldn't have anyone with me(its an informal chat , is what they are saying)
now here is the cruncher my boss has only been with the company for 7 months but has never recorded a meeting between us either in writing or on tape , everything Ive said has been between the four walls , where I stand on this I don't know as ive been banging on about her behaviour and the behaviour of her other bullying friends for months, the funny thing is my boss said to me in her first week in charge that there was a bullying culture around the office and she was aware of the culprits ,
its now also transpired that one of her many band of followers has accused me of having an affair with my boss to the top brass, ( honestly you cannot make this stuff up., I never knew middle aged woman could be so bitter and twisted )
I do know a couple of people who have backed me as they were called in to the office , and senior boss where I work has actually said I believe you but there is nothing we can do to get rid of this woman |
Middle aged women can be the worst. It sounds like the affair accusation is in reaction to knowledge your Father in Law will be representing you/be present, meaning they are $hitting themselves. Mention the accusation to FiL so he's not surprised and recognises it for the viscous tactic it is. You can use it to illustrate the bullying culture that HR are failing to challenge. She's trying to press your buttons so keep your cool.
It sounds like she has something on HR if they are not prepared to discipline her in the day to day, they have absolute Duty in Law to ensure bullying and racism are not occurring in the work place. And the legal penalties are severe.
Stay strong through it all. Good also your Mrs and her father have buried the hatchet. Silver linings and all that.
Take the bitch down without mercy. And keep your cool, be professional at all times and enjoy watching them squirm. It will come right. |  | | |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 13:27 - Jan 11 with 3034 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 08:54 - Jan 11 by paulparker |
thanks for all the advice once again lads & lasses ive never had any aggro before in any work company so your posts are very welcome and have helped a lot
Mrs P has made peace with the father in law ( a union man ) so he is going to represent me , me telling them this has made them sh1t themselves they are now backtracking and saying its between me , the bigot and the lady in HR and at this stage I shouldn't have anyone with me(its an informal chat , is what they are saying)
now here is the cruncher my boss has only been with the company for 7 months but has never recorded a meeting between us either in writing or on tape , everything Ive said has been between the four walls , where I stand on this I don't know as ive been banging on about her behaviour and the behaviour of her other bullying friends for months, the funny thing is my boss said to me in her first week in charge that there was a bullying culture around the office and she was aware of the culprits ,
its now also transpired that one of her many band of followers has accused me of having an affair with my boss to the top brass, ( honestly you cannot make this stuff up., I never knew middle aged woman could be so bitter and twisted )
I do know a couple of people who have backed me as they were called in to the office , and senior boss where I work has actually said I believe you but there is nothing we can do to get rid of this woman |
Can I come to your next works Christmas do? |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 13:30 - Jan 11 with 3027 views | TheBlob |
Paul.
Works every time.
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 13:47 - Jan 11 with 3009 views | Dorse |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 13:27 - Jan 11 by Northolt_Rs |
Can I come to your next works Christmas do? |
We could all come. What could go wrong? | |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 18:03 - Jan 11 with 2913 views | johncharles |
If a print out of some these just happen to be in your folder during your mediation...... not that you would want to try to intimidate anyone, it could just be half seen for a moment.
There guys are amateurs with very little training in this area. | |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 15:00 - Jan 13 with 2673 views | Neil_SI |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 18:03 - Jan 11 by johncharles |
If a print out of some these just happen to be in your folder during your mediation...... not that you would want to try to intimidate anyone, it could just be half seen for a moment.
There guys are amateurs with very little training in this area. |
Here’s a potential strategy that might be useful.
Firstly try not to allow your observations to cloud your judgement or behaviour, because this isn’t about whether anybody is “running scared” or “back tracking” and so on. It’s irrelevant to your purpose and think about the mediation as an opportunity to present your case calmly and clearly.
You mentioned a strategy where you let this lady do the talking and that you hope she hangs herself, but actually, if you go first, then you can pre-empty her potential attack and strip it down easily and quickly. You also cannot be sure that she will speak first, so you have to be prepared to speak first or second.
But, for example, if you open by talking about what happened on this particular occasion where you swore, you can immediately back that up with your regret at the way you handled this part and apologise as I described before.
That may soften her attack and leave her with very little to add, especially as you are going to given an accurate account of what happened, and because you show some remorse of how you handled it personally and have apologised, you have diffused the situation. Otherwise, you may be put on the back foot and having to defend yourself against exaggerated claims.
If she feels the apology isn’t enough for her, she can be encouraged to clarify her expectations of what is and isn’t acceptable. The trick here, is if she goes down this route she’s already setting herself up for a fall on what comes next, because you can move on to the racist behaviour.
If she counters your events and tries to magnify the perceived level of threatening behaviour you’ve shown, you can still apologise if she felt that way and say that was never your intention, but still politely agree to disagree that your behaviour was as threatening as she claims.
Similarly, if it’s all going well and she accepts your apology and the situation appears to have improved, you then move on to the real issue of racism, where you have a number of great options and terminology to use.
As hard as it might be, when talking about the threatening behaviour, try not to mix it up too much with the racist comments or get into a tit-for-tat argument and debate, because you want to clear the decks to the point that you can solely focus the racist comments in isolation. This is particularly useful if she has been heavy handed in her expectations of what level of apology and action should be taken for the perceived threatening behaviour by you, and it's here, where she might hang herself because if she demands too much she's setting a level of expectation that she already understands about action for racist comments.
If you reach this point you can clarify there’s been more than one occasion and make note of the consistency they’ve occurred.
If I were you I would use very specific terminology and openly express how “disappointed” you are by her actions and how “depressed” it makes you feel.
People tend to feel really bad when someone says they are “disappointed” with them. It’s all you need, if you say it calmly and in a matter-of-fact way it will most likely resonate and hit home.
While the term “disappointed” is a good one to aim at her and also in general on how the case has been handled by the company (so you link disappointment either to individual, the company or both), “depressed” is a very big one towards your company.
Tread carefully when you use this, there is a difference to saying you ARE depressed to saying it makes you FEEL depressed. I would concentrate on the latter term, because they can’t dispute how you think you feel, but if you were medically accessed, there can be a clinical conclusion to whether you are actually depressed or not.
Hope that helps in some way. Good luck! [Post edited 13 Jan 2018 15:07]
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 13:00 - Jan 14 with 2436 views | paulparker |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 15:00 - Jan 13 by Neil_SI |
Here’s a potential strategy that might be useful.
Firstly try not to allow your observations to cloud your judgement or behaviour, because this isn’t about whether anybody is “running scared” or “back tracking” and so on. It’s irrelevant to your purpose and think about the mediation as an opportunity to present your case calmly and clearly.
You mentioned a strategy where you let this lady do the talking and that you hope she hangs herself, but actually, if you go first, then you can pre-empty her potential attack and strip it down easily and quickly. You also cannot be sure that she will speak first, so you have to be prepared to speak first or second.
But, for example, if you open by talking about what happened on this particular occasion where you swore, you can immediately back that up with your regret at the way you handled this part and apologise as I described before.
That may soften her attack and leave her with very little to add, especially as you are going to given an accurate account of what happened, and because you show some remorse of how you handled it personally and have apologised, you have diffused the situation. Otherwise, you may be put on the back foot and having to defend yourself against exaggerated claims.
If she feels the apology isn’t enough for her, she can be encouraged to clarify her expectations of what is and isn’t acceptable. The trick here, is if she goes down this route she’s already setting herself up for a fall on what comes next, because you can move on to the racist behaviour.
If she counters your events and tries to magnify the perceived level of threatening behaviour you’ve shown, you can still apologise if she felt that way and say that was never your intention, but still politely agree to disagree that your behaviour was as threatening as she claims.
Similarly, if it’s all going well and she accepts your apology and the situation appears to have improved, you then move on to the real issue of racism, where you have a number of great options and terminology to use.
As hard as it might be, when talking about the threatening behaviour, try not to mix it up too much with the racist comments or get into a tit-for-tat argument and debate, because you want to clear the decks to the point that you can solely focus the racist comments in isolation. This is particularly useful if she has been heavy handed in her expectations of what level of apology and action should be taken for the perceived threatening behaviour by you, and it's here, where she might hang herself because if she demands too much she's setting a level of expectation that she already understands about action for racist comments.
If you reach this point you can clarify there’s been more than one occasion and make note of the consistency they’ve occurred.
If I were you I would use very specific terminology and openly express how “disappointed” you are by her actions and how “depressed” it makes you feel.
People tend to feel really bad when someone says they are “disappointed” with them. It’s all you need, if you say it calmly and in a matter-of-fact way it will most likely resonate and hit home.
While the term “disappointed” is a good one to aim at her and also in general on how the case has been handled by the company (so you link disappointment either to individual, the company or both), “depressed” is a very big one towards your company.
Tread carefully when you use this, there is a difference to saying you ARE depressed to saying it makes you FEEL depressed. I would concentrate on the latter term, because they can’t dispute how you think you feel, but if you were medically accessed, there can be a clinical conclusion to whether you are actually depressed or not.
Hope that helps in some way. Good luck! [Post edited 13 Jan 2018 15:07]
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thanks neil it helps a lot
in an interesting side note ive done some digging and found some pretty near to the knuckle stuff on her FB page, even sharing posts from a nationally banned organisation
ive copied saved and printed these off as its got the company logo on there too which doesn't look good whatsoever | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 13:51 - Jan 14 with 2384 views | Neil_SI |
| Advise Please (HR Related ) on 13:00 - Jan 14 by paulparker |
thanks neil it helps a lot
in an interesting side note ive done some digging and found some pretty near to the knuckle stuff on her FB page, even sharing posts from a nationally banned organisation
ive copied saved and printed these off as its got the company logo on there too which doesn't look good whatsoever |
That's excellent ammunition to have, especially as it's some form of hard evidence, which is what you have lacked until now.
However, you should still tread carefully and think how best to use and present that evidence because you don't want this to come across as a personal attack against an individual, but more a stand for what is and isn't considered acceptable behaviour by any individual or company.
Don't put all of your eggs in one basket, as they say.
If it comes across as a personal attack, grudge or score to settle, then you stand less chance of being satisfied with the outcome. All you want to do is present a case that is crystal clear and let the powers that be take responsibility and accountability for what happens next.
No matter how right you are and how well within your reason it is to try and find conclusive evidence, which I think is a good thing for you overall, others will always likely view collecting information like this from personal sites such as Facebook and social media as a bit intrusive and perhaps distasteful.
If you unveiled this in front of everybody in the meeting including the lady it may lend weight to any claim that you are coming across as threatening and aggressive, which is what you want to avoid. In addition, if you are able to calmly pin her down through verbal mediation alone, without the use of any evidence, then you have scored well and the evidence becomes a powerful freebie.
I personally would only use this material in the mediation as a last resort, and if I felt it were absolutely necessary. In my mind, this is best used at some point afterwards, perhaps if further investigations are required, or directly after depending on how the mediation went, but I'd only provide it to HR and the bosses privately.
There are some good reasons as to why:
1) If she denies the racist comments she has made, this backs up your claim, but while this evidence doesn't prove what she has said in the work place, you can flip the argument to having the company logo associated with these Facebook posts and adds another avenue and dimension that needs to be investigated further.
2) If she plays down her behaviour and comments, you can use this afterwards to privately demonstrate that you are not exaggerating or have made things up out of thin air. This reinforces your argument and will plant doubt about the integrity of her case.
3) If she accepts that her behaviour was unacceptable, then this simply further validates the outcome. It may even add or solidify the company's need to take serious action because it also adds new weight and isn't just an internal issue, but potentially an external one that could cause harm to the companies public image and reputation.
4) Separately from the above, you have already raised that you'd like someone to be present in the form of an independent witness, so you are already demonstrating that you're taking this very seriously and have already loaded your weapon. So, just now, there's probably no need to be any more heavy handed than this. They already seem to realise how seriously you're taking this, and usually the best way to "win" with these sort of things is to take them slowly out into deep water and drown them there, so perhaps holding onto this just a tad longer will provide you with that opportunity and ensure you don't turn up to any further meetings without any ammo.
For me, the positive of having some hard evidence is this; it should allow you to perform more calmly and rationally in the mediation, which without it, may easily lend to emotions running high when it's one persons word versus another, and especially if the other is making stuff up and you're having to defend yourself or try and prove your case. Nobody likes having their integrity falsely questioned, but that should be easier for you to mentally deal with now so use this as a method of ensuring you perform at your best when the time comes. [Post edited 14 Jan 2018 14:18]
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