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VAR 10:52 - Jan 28 with 10435 viewstraininvain

Just catching up on yesterday's football watching the Liverpool va WBA game. What a shambles!
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VAR on 16:17 - Jan 29 with 2316 viewstoboboly

Not sure how they can use it in one FA Cup game but not another. Not really fair on everyone else.

Apparently this is due to "not enough cameras" at certain grounds. You're telling me you can't install enough cameras in Cardiff's ground that was also on live tv? It is just Premier League bull$hit.

Sexy Asian dwarves wanted.

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VAR on 16:29 - Jan 29 with 2296 viewsDeepcutHoop

VAR on 16:11 - Jan 29 by PinnerPaul

Read my post - I'm not ignoring the positives - but if you're happy to wait 4 mins plus for a penalty to be confirmed or not cheer when a goal is scored until it is 'confirmed' then fine.

In the unlikely event it reaches the Rs level in its current format, I will stop going to matches.


Really, that's seems like a massive overreaction and cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I've no doubt the technology will become more streamlined as it goes on and those involved (including the players and officials) and it will become second nature.

People were threatening to stop watching with every major change to the rules, remember some OTT panic when the backpass rules changed for example. Looking back it is barely comprehensible that it used to be the norm for teams to just waste time by lumping it back to the keeper and letting him hold it for a bit.
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VAR on 16:34 - Jan 29 with 2289 viewsdaveB

VAR on 16:11 - Jan 29 by PinnerPaul

Read my post - I'm not ignoring the positives - but if you're happy to wait 4 mins plus for a penalty to be confirmed or not cheer when a goal is scored until it is 'confirmed' then fine.

In the unlikely event it reaches the Rs level in its current format, I will stop going to matches.


isn't that the point of trialing it to see how long it takes and if it works, if every decision is 4 minutes then it won't work and will quickly disappear but trialing it will show if that is the case and allow them to find a better way,

Would be interesting to see how long it takes normally for a penalty to be taken, is usually about 2 minutes after all the arguments, protests and gamesmanship
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VAR on 17:11 - Jan 29 with 2269 viewsVancouverHoop

"Until the advent of the instant replay, televised football had served simply as a substitute for physically attending the game; the advent of instant replay — which is possible only with the television — marks a post-convergent moment in the medium of television".

Said Marshall McLuhan in 1965. That's the moment when TV began orchestrating football viewing rather than supporters who actually attend matches. Video replay is an extension of that. These changes don't make watching the game better, they just make it different.

If football follows the North American models of VAR – some of which have been around for well over a decade – shortly there'll be mic'd referees explaining their decisions (on balance this is OK, but it does lead to further delay.) Worse, a manager soon will be able to challenge refereeing decisions. This now exists in all major league sports here. Every bench has someone with tablet looking at every play, and they can call a certain number of reviews. This slows down games even more, as the coach has to decide whether it's worth contesting a decision or not.
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VAR on 17:38 - Jan 29 with 2257 viewsPinnerPaul

This article sums it up brilliantly I think

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/var-is-a-battle-in-war-for-the-soul-of-
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VAR on 17:53 - Jan 29 with 2244 viewsPinnerPaul

VAR on 16:34 - Jan 29 by daveB

isn't that the point of trialing it to see how long it takes and if it works, if every decision is 4 minutes then it won't work and will quickly disappear but trialing it will show if that is the case and allow them to find a better way,

Would be interesting to see how long it takes normally for a penalty to be taken, is usually about 2 minutes after all the arguments, protests and gamesmanship


your last point is a fair one Dave - BUT WBA still argued the toss AFTER the review, so it doesn't solve that problem.

Plus as you know only too well from your professional life NO replay/review system is ever going to be instant. Doesn't really matter if its the match referee or bloke looking at EVS reviews an incident, there WILL always be a delay and it will ALWAYS take longer than a referee making an instant decision.
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VAR on 09:17 - Jan 30 with 2182 viewsMick_S

What is it good for?

Did I ever mention that I was in Minder?

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VAR on 09:44 - Jan 30 with 2169 viewsdaveB

VAR on 17:53 - Jan 29 by PinnerPaul

your last point is a fair one Dave - BUT WBA still argued the toss AFTER the review, so it doesn't solve that problem.

Plus as you know only too well from your professional life NO replay/review system is ever going to be instant. Doesn't really matter if its the match referee or bloke looking at EVS reviews an incident, there WILL always be a delay and it will ALWAYS take longer than a referee making an instant decision.


West Brom players arguing afterwards was ridiculous but I think that has a lot to do with the communication problem, if it was made more clear what is happening using big screens or announcements then that kind of thing would eventually change.

For me they have tried to run before they can walk with this system, easiest thing would have been to just check goals for offsides or fouls, that is an easy thing to show on big screens like in cricket did the ball cross the line, was he offside, all black and white issues. if that works then start looking at other things but any decision like that Salah penalty is going to take longer as it's not as clear cut. It will never be perfect but it's well worth trying it to see what the problems are and if they can be fixed.

Communication is the big problem though, not just in the ground but even watching on TV you have no idea what is going on which can't be good.
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VAR on 09:56 - Jan 30 with 2156 viewsisawqpratwcity

Clearly I am in a minority on this. To me, the most important thing the ref has to do is not keep the game moving, it is to enforce the rules of the game.

By all means, come up with a system to limit appeals, but most important thing to do is get the decision right.

You don't have to agree, but never, ever complain about a decision again. If you don't want to fix it, don't moan when it doesn't work.

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VAR on 10:55 - Jan 30 with 2123 viewsSpaghetti_Hoops

All in favour of VAR. It will get quicker with better communication. There are plenty of lengthy stoppages in the modern game for injuries, substitutions, referees having a debate with players (a particular dislike of mine). One or two more stoppages a game (on average) will hardly be noticed in the long term. On the plus side we have got rid of some of the lengthy stoppages and chaos which used to ensue with walls and the 10 yard rule. I have no doubt that there was ridicule in some quarters about that change at the time.

It is impossible for football to avoid the pressure for getting decisions right now that most other major sports are using video replays. It will help when a stadium replay is part of the drama. It will come.
[Post edited 30 Jan 2018 14:47]
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VAR on 11:16 - Jan 30 with 2111 viewsSpaghetti_Hoops

VAR on 17:38 - Jan 29 by PinnerPaul

This article sums it up brilliantly I think

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/var-is-a-battle-in-war-for-the-soul-of-


Not really.

It is partly to do with order and chaos and he makes some good points, but it is much more to do with the injustice and unfairness. In a society which goes back decades spending dozens of millions trying to right wrongs (in their opinion) waiting a couple of minutes to know whether a key decision is correct is nothing.
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VAR on 15:01 - Jan 30 with 2054 viewsPinnerPaul

VAR on 16:29 - Jan 29 by DeepcutHoop

Really, that's seems like a massive overreaction and cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I've no doubt the technology will become more streamlined as it goes on and those involved (including the players and officials) and it will become second nature.

People were threatening to stop watching with every major change to the rules, remember some OTT panic when the backpass rules changed for example. Looking back it is barely comprehensible that it used to be the norm for teams to just waste time by lumping it back to the keeper and letting him hold it for a bit.


Well its not changing the 'rules' - its just introducing a much more complicated way of enforcing them.

See above for article I posted link to - that sums up my feelings.

As for it will become more 'streamlined' - heard that a lot, but unlike goal line technology which is close enough to instant a REVEIW system never will be - the clue is in the name!
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VAR on 15:04 - Jan 30 with 2053 viewsPinnerPaul

VAR on 11:16 - Jan 30 by Spaghetti_Hoops

Not really.

It is partly to do with order and chaos and he makes some good points, but it is much more to do with the injustice and unfairness. In a society which goes back decades spending dozens of millions trying to right wrongs (in their opinion) waiting a couple of minutes to know whether a key decision is correct is nothing.


Fine if you call not being able to celebrate a goal as we do now 'nothing'.

For me its taking away a big part of the enjoyment of the game.
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VAR on 20:16 - Jan 30 with 2019 viewsSpaghetti_Hoops

VAR on 15:04 - Jan 30 by PinnerPaul

Fine if you call not being able to celebrate a goal as we do now 'nothing'.

For me its taking away a big part of the enjoyment of the game.


The celebration happens regardless. Then there's the suspense, just like other sports.
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VAR on 21:27 - Jan 30 with 1996 viewsisawqpratwcity

VAR on 15:01 - Jan 30 by PinnerPaul

Well its not changing the 'rules' - its just introducing a much more complicated way of enforcing them.

See above for article I posted link to - that sums up my feelings.

As for it will become more 'streamlined' - heard that a lot, but unlike goal line technology which is close enough to instant a REVEIW system never will be - the clue is in the name!


But there already is a REVIEW (I think that's how it's spelled) system in place and it happens days after the match has finished.

Sure, Bristol would be able to appeal their red card, but it was too late, because they had to play out most of the match with ten men...for one team, victory had already been cruelly placed out of reach...
[Post edited 31 Jan 2018 5:26]

Poll: Deaths of Thatcher and Mandela this year: Sad or Glad?

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VAR on 21:40 - Jan 30 with 1985 viewsLongsufferingR

VAR on 20:16 - Jan 30 by Spaghetti_Hoops

The celebration happens regardless. Then there's the suspense, just like other sports.


Can't agree with this at all. Take yourself back to Wembley 2014. To a man and woman we were going absolutely mental for who knows how long. Do you seriously think that the referee calling for a review of whether anybody handled the ball would be a positive?

I'd 100% rather have errors in refereeing than ruining the spontaneity involved in being a fan.
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VAR on 23:30 - Jan 30 with 1940 viewsVancouverHoop

Yeah. In the end this is an argument as to whether you believe in the perfectability of a game's rules via technology. Or whether you'd rather see twenty-two blokes doing their best to get a ball into a net, while three others try their best to arbitrate. Human frailty and failure is a given, it's part of the contest.
[Post edited 31 Jan 2018 0:37]
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VAR on 00:11 - Jan 31 with 1920 viewsCliveWilsonSaid

VAR on 21:40 - Jan 30 by LongsufferingR

Can't agree with this at all. Take yourself back to Wembley 2014. To a man and woman we were going absolutely mental for who knows how long. Do you seriously think that the referee calling for a review of whether anybody handled the ball would be a positive?

I'd 100% rather have errors in refereeing than ruining the spontaneity involved in being a fan.


A bit like the Faurlin enquiry at the end of promotion season. Kind of ruined it for me, just turned into a farce until the end.

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VAR on 17:39 - Jan 31 with 1837 viewsPinnerPaul

VAR on 21:40 - Jan 30 by LongsufferingR

Can't agree with this at all. Take yourself back to Wembley 2014. To a man and woman we were going absolutely mental for who knows how long. Do you seriously think that the referee calling for a review of whether anybody handled the ball would be a positive?

I'd 100% rather have errors in refereeing than ruining the spontaneity involved in being a fan.


With you 100% there!
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VAR on 17:50 - Jan 31 with 1830 viewsSpaghetti_Hoops

Don't worry you'll get used to it.
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VAR on 18:13 - Jan 31 with 1823 viewsNorthernr

VAR on 17:39 - Jan 31 by PinnerPaul

With you 100% there!


On that point, when I'm at rugby league and the video referee is there you celebrate in a different way when they score, almost like the celebration you do when QPR are awarded a penalty but before it's taken. It's good news, we've got the ball down, but we know what's coming. If the referee then makes the TV gesture there's a huge groan, load of booing, and then you all turn and look at the screen for anything up to four minutes while they go through it frame by frame looking for reasons to disallow it. By the time you do get to celebrate it's often more out of relief that you've been given the benefit of the doubt and the fcking game can start again.

And, as I've said before, the video referee repeatedly comes up with decisions that are perverse, and outright wrong. It's very rare that even the four Sky commentators agree that it will be a try or not after multiple replays.

The referees are so afraid of awarding a try that there later turns out to be something wrong with they send everything up to the screen regardless of what they think. They've had to move the kick off of televised night games earlier because the video referee was dragging 8pm kick offs long past 10pm.
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VAR on 18:27 - Jan 31 with 1817 viewsPinnerPaul

VAR on 18:13 - Jan 31 by Northernr

On that point, when I'm at rugby league and the video referee is there you celebrate in a different way when they score, almost like the celebration you do when QPR are awarded a penalty but before it's taken. It's good news, we've got the ball down, but we know what's coming. If the referee then makes the TV gesture there's a huge groan, load of booing, and then you all turn and look at the screen for anything up to four minutes while they go through it frame by frame looking for reasons to disallow it. By the time you do get to celebrate it's often more out of relief that you've been given the benefit of the doubt and the fcking game can start again.

And, as I've said before, the video referee repeatedly comes up with decisions that are perverse, and outright wrong. It's very rare that even the four Sky commentators agree that it will be a try or not after multiple replays.

The referees are so afraid of awarding a try that there later turns out to be something wrong with they send everything up to the screen regardless of what they think. They've had to move the kick off of televised night games earlier because the video referee was dragging 8pm kick offs long past 10pm.


Interesting that Klopp claimed that correct amount of added time was not added on because it would have mucked up BT's schedules.

Now I've no idea if that is correct (BT denied it) but if it used in World Cup it IS going to cause an issue to ITV.

Currently they assume a 'normal' amount of added time when scheduling breaks. For knock out matches they have 3 schedules - No E/T; E/T but no pens and E/T & pens - as the VAR added time is an unknown I'm not quite sure how they are going to manage that.
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VAR on 18:49 - Jan 31 with 1810 viewsLongsufferingR

VAR on 18:27 - Jan 31 by PinnerPaul

Interesting that Klopp claimed that correct amount of added time was not added on because it would have mucked up BT's schedules.

Now I've no idea if that is correct (BT denied it) but if it used in World Cup it IS going to cause an issue to ITV.

Currently they assume a 'normal' amount of added time when scheduling breaks. For knock out matches they have 3 schedules - No E/T; E/T but no pens and E/T & pens - as the VAR added time is an unknown I'm not quite sure how they are going to manage that.


Good! I hope it royally screws them over. Is it definitely going to be used at the World Cup then?
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VAR on 09:49 - Feb 1 with 1758 viewsterryb

VAR on 18:27 - Jan 31 by PinnerPaul

Interesting that Klopp claimed that correct amount of added time was not added on because it would have mucked up BT's schedules.

Now I've no idea if that is correct (BT denied it) but if it used in World Cup it IS going to cause an issue to ITV.

Currently they assume a 'normal' amount of added time when scheduling breaks. For knock out matches they have 3 schedules - No E/T; E/T but no pens and E/T & pens - as the VAR added time is an unknown I'm not quite sure how they are going to manage that.


I can't really see that this would be the case as they spend a fair time discussing the match afterwards.

However, it would be interesting to hear the explanation from the referee as to why he didn't add on the correct time for the reviews.
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VAR on 21:10 - Apr 16 with 1527 viewsCheshireR

Tonight's Bundesliga game between Mainz and Frieburg has witnessed a new level of madness in the application of VAR.
The ref blows for half time and the Frieburg players go to the dressing room. The ref then decides to use VAR to check for a handball - for which nobody had appealed.
Mainz are awarded a penalty and the Frieburg team have to return from the dressing room for it to be taken.
Mainz score and lead 1.0 at half time.
Bonkers.
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