| Ramsey’s influence? 07:28 - Mar 14 with 11402 views | Hooparoo |
At the risk of starting a new bunfight - I wonder whether our seemingly new enlightened attacking tactics and formation have something to do with Chris Ramsey in the dugout? Coincidence or not?
He was a crap manager but is still a good coach |  |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:08 - Mar 14 with 2776 views | danehoop |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 11:17 - Mar 14 by gazza1 |
but spurs let him go!! |
Not sure it was so clear cut as that. A coach at spurs, at a time of manager turnover and timmytime as well. We were club on the up with opportunity to develop his own approach. That would have been tempting and suspect the management team and owners are likely to have been seen as more supportive. Either way we are lucky to have him as his approach is starting to pay dividends |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:47 - Mar 14 with 2737 views | smegma |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:08 - Mar 14 by danehoop |
Not sure it was so clear cut as that. A coach at spurs, at a time of manager turnover and timmytime as well. We were club on the up with opportunity to develop his own approach. That would have been tempting and suspect the management team and owners are likely to have been seen as more supportive. Either way we are lucky to have him as his approach is starting to pay dividends |
Most coaches leave clubs year on year. But the fact CR departed WHL means he must be useless. Four years ago watching the under 18s it was hard to find anyone who you would think would make it at our club or any other pro club. I could name over a dozen kids in the current Academy who have a bright future. This is the best Academy set up I've seen in 25 years since the likes of Gallen, Dichio, Challis , Brazier et al beat literally everyone over a 2 year period. But back then we had to play the likes of Spurs, Arsenal and the SW6 pikeys regularly. The current kids are not up to that standard but things are looking bright. Last night we had Furlong, Eze and Manning in the starting line up.
When was the last time we had 3 ex Academy players in the starting line up ??? Yes, 25 years ago with Kevin Gallen playing upfront. No coincidence at all. |  | | |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 14:11 - Mar 14 with 2700 views | WestbourneR |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 07:40 - Mar 14 by BrianMcCarthy |
I didn't want to say this last night for fear of wrecking the party. We did play well last night and Eze made a huge difference for us, keeping the ball to allow us to turn defence into attack, time and time again.
However, as you say, one factor in our win was that we converted chances into goals, and another was that we defended very well for nearly ninety minutes, neither of which has been the norm.
I do prefer 4231 and it has helped us, but the above two factors were just as important as the formation last night, I thought. |
It’s the formation and it was never rocket science.
I’m so glad because I think the team has real potential set up tips way.
Re Bidwell crosses. Always had nice arc and technique but often doesn’t clear be first man. I think hitting them deeper from full back will suit - but yeah he needs to get more height on them. Even Manking has to stoop and dive to get his head on the cross |  |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 14:25 - Mar 14 with 2678 views | simmo |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 07:31 - Mar 14 by daveB |
I think it's a lot more to do with how we lost to Forest than Ramsey coming in.
I don't think we've become more attacking, just taken our chances in the last few games which wasn't happening before |
Do you think it's a coincidence that a change of formation and system is yielding better individual performances and results? |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 17:55 - Mar 14 with 2585 views | WestbourneR |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 07:31 - Mar 14 by daveB |
I think it's a lot more to do with how we lost to Forest than Ramsey coming in.
I don't think we've become more attacking, just taken our chances in the last few games which wasn't happening before |
daveB... come on now... let it go. The formation was wrong, it's better now. That's abundantly clear. That argument is surely settled.
I know you stuck up strongly for wing-backs but we all make the wrong call sometimes, I've certainly made many (Mark Hughes anyone?). Ollie has done for 3/4 of the season. | |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 18:06 - Mar 14 with 2565 views | simmo |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 17:55 - Mar 14 by WestbourneR |
daveB... come on now... let it go. The formation was wrong, it's better now. That's abundantly clear. That argument is surely settled.
I know you stuck up strongly for wing-backs but we all make the wrong call sometimes, I've certainly made many (Mark Hughes anyone?). Ollie has done for 3/4 of the season. |
I don't think Dave ever 'stuck up for wing backs', just that a change of formation or system wasn't the cause of our problems and lack of results and making the switch won't be a magic wand.
I agreed with that, but was also of the opinion that we would at least be better playing people in the positions they are natural in and getting more out of the squad. It won't work every time and I think Dave is right that we have taken our chances better, but overall I think everybody looks more at ease with a back 4 and a return to wing backs would be the wrong move. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 23:14 - Mar 14 with 2439 views | GloryHunter |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 09:37 - Mar 14 by loftboy |
I’m a delivery driver, according to my customer feedback I’m good at my job and deliver a good service, however if this feedback gave me an opportunity to get promoted into an admin position I would probably be crap at my job and out of my depth, surely the same principal applies in all walks of life including the football management ladder. IE Ramsey is good at the job he’s paid to do but put him up a rung and he’s out his depth. He definitely itself deserves some kind of plaudit for the under 23’s. |
This is known as The Peter Principle - people get promoted until they reach their level of incompetence. Makes you wonder about our politicians, let alone our football managers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle |  | | |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 23:30 - Mar 14 with 2434 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 11:17 - Mar 14 by gazza1 |
but spurs let him go!! |
They also let Gerry Francis go and he then kept us up, they let Peter Shreeves go, and they didn't rate Venables when he was there and before he became the last good England manager. They let Crouch go. The list of people Spurs thought weren't good enough for them but who were good at their jobs is endless, the club has an unwarranted superiority complex going back to the Middle Ages.
Chelsea let Sexton go. Man City let Stan Bowles go.
I judge Ramsey and any other Rangers man on what they do for us not on the opinions of other clubs. The U-23s under Ramsey are a huge improvement on what he inherited. | | | |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 23:33 - Mar 14 with 2427 views | daveB |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 14:25 - Mar 14 by simmo |
Do you think it's a coincidence that a change of formation and system is yielding better individual performances and results? |
wouldn't say it was a coincidence, think we've had plenty of performances similar to the last 2 home games playing 3 at the back but switching formation has allowed Eze to play which has been good.
I just think last night was one of the rare nights we took our chances, have had many games this season when we should have won by 3 goals but only scored 1 as we missed some great chances [Post edited 14 Mar 2018 23:41]
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 23:39 - Mar 14 with 2416 views | daveB |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 17:55 - Mar 14 by WestbourneR |
daveB... come on now... let it go. The formation was wrong, it's better now. That's abundantly clear. That argument is surely settled.
I know you stuck up strongly for wing-backs but we all make the wrong call sometimes, I've certainly made many (Mark Hughes anyone?). Ollie has done for 3/4 of the season. |
wasn't about sticking up for wing backs, all i ever said was a change of formation wasn't a magic cure and wouldn't magically fix the problem we have in a lack of width. Even switching to a 4-3-3 we still don't have a left sided winger and the crosses are coming from deep where the wing backs were. In the two home games I thought the performances were no different to what we've seen playing 3 at the back really this season. Last night sounded special but as I say I didn't see a massive change in the width you were calling for, most of our play was through the middle through Eze last night rather than Freeman.Not hugely different really other than the result.
I don't buy Holloway has made the wrong call for 3/4 of the season, playing that way has helped us get points on the board and put us as good as safe before he changed it. Teams evolve over time and I think going forward we will end up playing 4-2-3-1 but still say if we had started the season that way with no left winger, one less centre half and Smith on his own up front all season then we'd be in trouble now. | | | |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 08:35 - Mar 15 with 2308 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 18:06 - Mar 14 by simmo |
I don't think Dave ever 'stuck up for wing backs', just that a change of formation or system wasn't the cause of our problems and lack of results and making the switch won't be a magic wand.
I agreed with that, but was also of the opinion that we would at least be better playing people in the positions they are natural in and getting more out of the squad. It won't work every time and I think Dave is right that we have taken our chances better, but overall I think everybody looks more at ease with a back 4 and a return to wing backs would be the wrong move. |
I think that's very fair, both as an assessment of what Dave said in the last while and in summing up the team's latest uptick in performance.
I would also add that the doubling-up of Villa's two wide miidfielders on Tuesday night was instrumental in our win. It kept them both largely quiet until we made our subs when the system broke down and Villa started crossing at will. |  |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 11:17 - Mar 15 with 2226 views | smegma |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 23:30 - Mar 14 by CiderwithRsie |
They also let Gerry Francis go and he then kept us up, they let Peter Shreeves go, and they didn't rate Venables when he was there and before he became the last good England manager. They let Crouch go. The list of people Spurs thought weren't good enough for them but who were good at their jobs is endless, the club has an unwarranted superiority complex going back to the Middle Ages.
Chelsea let Sexton go. Man City let Stan Bowles go.
I judge Ramsey and any other Rangers man on what they do for us not on the opinions of other clubs. The U-23s under Ramsey are a huge improvement on what he inherited. |
Is the correct answer. When our under 23s were conceding loads of goals two seasons ago, it was because of CR . Now he gets no credit whatsoever when things are improving. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
Can we just enjoy the fact that we know which division we will be playing in next season ????
As for that Evil Les and Lee Hoos bloke................. | | | |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 12:56 - Mar 15 with 2139 views | Hayesender |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 12:32 - Mar 14 by DaiHo0p |
Too much overthinking chaps - we dropped Washington that's all.. |
This, This, and this again |  |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:00 - Mar 15 with 2131 views | timcocking |
What i will say, irrespective of the result or performance, we can't possibly be better with Pavel down the left and Manning down the right as opposed to the other way around! I assume Ollie realised that and rectified it in the second half?
But yeah, as others have said, small margins, swap a mediocre striker who's totally shot for a fearless youngster who actually does seem to have some skills. |  | | |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:30 - Mar 15 with 2108 views | PinnerPaul |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 12:09 - Mar 14 by paulparker |
what players MR ITK ???? class of 93 friend of the players indeed
I know as much as you do which is probably fcuk all but its my OPINION based on what crap I witnessed and what was served up under his mis management , btw im no TF fan but how was he stitched up , he was given an opportunity which he never took , did you see any of our defensive displays during that time MR ITK ? if you did then you could see that they wasn't coached as a unit whatsoever , did you see the big target man JET take long throws to no one ? did you see our set piece routines ?
now the point im making is because he is sat next to Holloway doesn't mean we have suddenly become Real Madrid, yes he is a good youth coach but its no different to having Curtis fleming on the bench when we beat wolves or sheff utd,
its a great myth that when you look up coach in the dictionary we see chris Ramsey's face , |
Well one things not correct there, he doesn't sit next to Holloway.
Watched the Villa game from the gantry, making notes.
So from that I'm guessing his work with IH involves the training ground and not so much, at all?, on matchdays.
But, really, as someone said above - how a bunch of fans who have never taken a training session in our lives or ever seen Mr R take a session, can pass comment on his abilities as a coach, is beyond me! | | | |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:35 - Mar 15 with 2099 views | PinnerPaul |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 17:55 - Mar 14 by WestbourneR |
daveB... come on now... let it go. The formation was wrong, it's better now. That's abundantly clear. That argument is surely settled.
I know you stuck up strongly for wing-backs but we all make the wrong call sometimes, I've certainly made many (Mark Hughes anyone?). Ollie has done for 3/4 of the season. |
I've always benn sceptical, like Clive, that it was only playing 3 at the back that was stopping us from running away with this division but.... I think it has transformed the games of Furlong, Bidwell and Lynch - who all look so much happier in a four than either in a 3 or, worse pushed into service as a wing back.
So surely the change has been a factor in the last 3 games - but, obviously, other 'problems' - not least our lack of goals, still need to be addressed before we can become a top half of the table team. | | | |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:43 - Mar 15 with 2083 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:00 - Mar 15 by timcocking |
What i will say, irrespective of the result or performance, we can't possibly be better with Pavel down the left and Manning down the right as opposed to the other way around! I assume Ollie realised that and rectified it in the second half?
But yeah, as others have said, small margins, swap a mediocre striker who's totally shot for a fearless youngster who actually does seem to have some skills. |
I thought it worked a treat and got both of them running at Villa's statuesque centre-backs which is where all our early chances and dominance came from.
I'm not usually a fan, but thought it worked brilliantly on Tuesday night. | |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 14:09 - Mar 15 with 2052 views | WestbourneR |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:35 - Mar 15 by PinnerPaul |
I've always benn sceptical, like Clive, that it was only playing 3 at the back that was stopping us from running away with this division but.... I think it has transformed the games of Furlong, Bidwell and Lynch - who all look so much happier in a four than either in a 3 or, worse pushed into service as a wing back.
So surely the change has been a factor in the last 3 games - but, obviously, other 'problems' - not least our lack of goals, still need to be addressed before we can become a top half of the table team. |
It's made a massive difference.
Arguing anything else is sheer bloody mindedness.
That said - Fulham are still gonna win this weekend no matter what formation we play. | |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 14:15 - Mar 15 with 2042 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 11:17 - Mar 14 by gazza1 |
but spurs let him go!! |
pretty sure Ramsey got a promotion by joining us, and it's possibly Poch may have wanted his own men in. By that time, Ramsey was part of Timmy's first team set up anyway. [Post edited 15 Mar 2018 14:20]
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 14:15 - Mar 15 with 2042 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:00 - Mar 15 by timcocking |
What i will say, irrespective of the result or performance, we can't possibly be better with Pavel down the left and Manning down the right as opposed to the other way around! I assume Ollie realised that and rectified it in the second half?
But yeah, as others have said, small margins, swap a mediocre striker who's totally shot for a fearless youngster who actually does seem to have some skills. |
I believe the thinking behind that was to prevent Adomah & Snodgrass cutting inside against the weaker foot of both players. They were generally forced to go outside to get their crosses in. I think that was also the reasoning behind Pawel very poor attempt to get the ball across the Villa box to Furlong; he used his left foot and failed to either lift or power it past Johnstone. Pawel looked a much better player once he went over to the RH side and, as we have witnessed in the past, he does link up really well with Darnell. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 14:16 - Mar 15 with 2039 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 12:09 - Mar 14 by paulparker |
what players MR ITK ???? class of 93 friend of the players indeed
I know as much as you do which is probably fcuk all but its my OPINION based on what crap I witnessed and what was served up under his mis management , btw im no TF fan but how was he stitched up , he was given an opportunity which he never took , did you see any of our defensive displays during that time MR ITK ? if you did then you could see that they wasn't coached as a unit whatsoever , did you see the big target man JET take long throws to no one ? did you see our set piece routines ?
now the point im making is because he is sat next to Holloway doesn't mean we have suddenly become Real Madrid, yes he is a good youth coach but its no different to having Curtis fleming on the bench when we beat wolves or sheff utd,
its a great myth that when you look up coach in the dictionary we see chris Ramsey's face , |
We also played some lovely exciting attacking football under him - admittedly at the loss of solidity at the back. | |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 14:25 - Mar 15 with 2027 views | simmo |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:35 - Mar 15 by PinnerPaul |
I've always benn sceptical, like Clive, that it was only playing 3 at the back that was stopping us from running away with this division but.... I think it has transformed the games of Furlong, Bidwell and Lynch - who all look so much happier in a four than either in a 3 or, worse pushed into service as a wing back.
So surely the change has been a factor in the last 3 games - but, obviously, other 'problems' - not least our lack of goals, still need to be addressed before we can become a top half of the table team. |
Absolutely this, I don't think those of us advocating a switch away from the wing backs did so thinking we were going to be suddenly amazing, but the change to 4 plays to the strengths of all of our players rather than shoe-horning them in. Wszolek is far better as a winger (1st assist for an age on Tuesday) and whilst still solid defensively both Furs and Bidwell are capable of supporting attacks, as we saw against Villa (an assist each).
People knew their positions so well on Tuesday that we could actually do step-overs FFS. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Ramsey’s influence? on 14:40 - Mar 15 with 2018 views | vegasranger |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 13:47 - Mar 14 by smegma |
Most coaches leave clubs year on year. But the fact CR departed WHL means he must be useless. Four years ago watching the under 18s it was hard to find anyone who you would think would make it at our club or any other pro club. I could name over a dozen kids in the current Academy who have a bright future. This is the best Academy set up I've seen in 25 years since the likes of Gallen, Dichio, Challis , Brazier et al beat literally everyone over a 2 year period. But back then we had to play the likes of Spurs, Arsenal and the SW6 pikeys regularly. The current kids are not up to that standard but things are looking bright. Last night we had Furlong, Eze and Manning in the starting line up.
When was the last time we had 3 ex Academy players in the starting line up ??? Yes, 25 years ago with Kevin Gallen playing upfront. No coincidence at all. |
For me this is why a new training ground is so important. Then our youth teams can play at higher level. They need to be competing against the likes of Chelsea instead of Colchester United. | | | |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 20:39 - Mar 15 with 1899 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Ramsey’s influence? on 12:19 - Mar 14 by ngbqpr |
Can I venture to suggest that the management & coaching staff work together all week as a team...and perhaps rather than individualising it all, we commend the whole management team for performances like last night; and question the whole management team for performances like Forest? |
Good post and I've been thinking about this in context of the Ollie stay/go debate.
Personally I'm not so convinced that the Villa game puts the debate to bed forever but what I'd like to think is that it showed what we can do if Ollie's management and Ramsey's coaching come together (especially since we seem to at last be building a first team based on the U-23s and obvs CR ought to know them better than anyone else) and building on the work done by Penrice and Les on scouting and buying/selling.
That'd actually be better than if it's all down to one of them because it would show that the DoF approach is working and would make us less vulnerable to one person leaving. | | | |
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