| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! 14:53 - Mar 17 with 3944 views | ridethewave |
What a fantastic performance, and a fantastic week of results. Nothing beats ruining Fulham’s weekend!
But why, oh why, oh why, has it taken Holloway this long to figure out that we haven’t got the ability/players to play the ridiculous system he’s persisted with all bloody year?!
This is no coincidence. Furlong looks good, Bidwell looks like a different player when we’re not p*ssing about telling him to try and be a winger at the same time. The two center halfs look more comfortable. And it gives us more going forward.
Were we a change of formation away from promoation this year? No, absolutely not.
But don’t anybody tell me that it’s not about formation. Just staggering it’s taken this long to figure out.
Anyway, what a brilliant result, and performance. What a difference it makes to your weekend! [Post edited 17 Mar 2018 19:42]
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| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 14:57 - Mar 17 with 3924 views | Nov77 |
Holloway over complicates things. Trying different formations and players out of position.
Warnock was the opposite, everyone knew their job and stuck to it.
Hopefully the penny has dropped. No coincidence that results have picked up since reverting to a back four. |  |
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| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 14:59 - Mar 17 with 3894 views | Match82 |
Given the nonsense we went through abandoning a formation two games into the season I can't fault Ollie for sticking with it and hoping that the players grow into it. Probably could have changed a bit earlier but as you say wouldn't have made a difference to our prospects this season
Edit: I'd add that the times when the three at the back system worked best was went Hall was playing and could step up into midfield when we had the ball. We we're robbed of the chance to utilize that this season [Post edited 17 Mar 2018 15:00]
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| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 14:59 - Mar 17 with 3881 views | Esox_Lucius |
| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 14:57 - Mar 17 by Nov77 |
Holloway over complicates things. Trying different formations and players out of position.
Warnock was the opposite, everyone knew their job and stuck to it.
Hopefully the penny has dropped. No coincidence that results have picked up since reverting to a back four. |
and introducing Chris Ramsey into the 1st team set up. The attacking intent is back. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 15:01 - Mar 17 with 3849 views | kropotkin41 |
It seems like a long time since we went 4 unbeaten. |  |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 15:01 - Mar 17 with 3843 views | ridethewave |
It would have made a bloody big difference to my experience going to HQ every week though, might actually have seen some decent football! | | | |
| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 15:02 - Mar 17 with 3841 views | bosh67 |
| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 14:59 - Mar 17 by Esox_Lucius |
and introducing Chris Ramsey into the 1st team set up. The attacking intent is back. |
This. Credit has to go to Ramsey. Excellent come back today and unlucky not to get the 3 points. |  |
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| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 19:52 - Mar 17 with 3416 views | smegma |
| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 15:01 - Mar 17 by kropotkin41 |
It seems like a long time since we went 4 unbeaten. |
We've won more league games this year than we've lost !!!! |  | | |
| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 20:12 - Mar 17 with 3338 views | CiderwithRsie |
| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 14:59 - Mar 17 by Match82 |
Given the nonsense we went through abandoning a formation two games into the season I can't fault Ollie for sticking with it and hoping that the players grow into it. Probably could have changed a bit earlier but as you say wouldn't have made a difference to our prospects this season
Edit: I'd add that the times when the three at the back system worked best was went Hall was playing and could step up into midfield when we had the ball. We we're robbed of the chance to utilize that this season [Post edited 17 Mar 2018 15:00]
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One of the things I like about this post is that it has reminded me that with any luck Grant Hall will be available for most of next season, which is a nice bit of icing on a good football weekend.
Makes me feel slightly less nervous about the possibility of losing Onuaha and or Robinson in the summer (though I'd love it if we kept all three.) | | | |
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| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 20:16 - Mar 17 with 3318 views | DubaiR |
Yep I think things fell in to place by accident, fleming going to Boro and bringing Ramsey in, injuries forcing hand to a degree and the introduction of some fresh faced youngsters.
Still credit where it is due IH in past may have tried to play people out of position to cover the injuries.
Our thing now will be what happens in the summer and can we do it on a regular basis, we struggled to break down Sunderland for example. |  | | |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 20:29 - Mar 17 with 3272 views | WestbourneR |
It’s made a whole world of difference - and like you say many of us could see it needed to happen for a long time. It’s very odd got fixated on five.
Dave was saying on here a few days ago that we’d not have been safe and got many of the good results we’ve got (ignoring the numerous loses) if we hadn’t played five at the back - that the formation served its purpose.
It didn’t, it made us worse and it hamstrung the players.
We look a good team going forward now. |  |
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| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 23:03 - Mar 17 with 3087 views | stevec |
Without a doubt 4 at the back has transformed this team, but to be fair to Ollie his options changed with the introduction of Eze and Smyth .
Ironically, arguably the two best players from the previous formation, Robinson and Freeman, are seeing their positions most threatened. 4 at the back is probably best served as it stands with the option of Hall for Lynch. With Smyth and Pav wide , Eze centre and Manning able to play a number of roles, it becomes more difficult to see where Freeman fits in. Freeman has been excellent for us but you can see why Bristol,as they evolved, found him surplus to requirements. An unusual dilemma.
It’s beginning to look like the coaching staff have stumbled onto something, whether the board can come up with the funds for a couple of forwards, we will have to wait and see. |  | | |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 23:22 - Mar 17 with 3048 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
Maybe when you're lost. You have to bang at the wrong doors to find the right one? |  |
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| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 23:35 - Mar 17 with 2997 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Benefit of hindsight eh.
We had some decent wins under the 532 as well by the way. Not sure you can build a pattern around two games to be honest.
I don't want to sound like 2T2B but this seems like a contorted way of having a pop at Holloway after a good week.
Get done at Reading under 442 and we'll forget all about formations. |  | | |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 01:03 - Mar 18 with 2847 views | simmo |
Forest spanking us been a bit of a blessing in disguise, kicked everyone up the arse and made us change up |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 07:28 - Mar 18 with 2697 views | timcocking |
It did seem a bloody obvious thing to try much, much earlier in the season.
Nevermind, onwards and upwards (perhaps)... |  | | |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 08:31 - Mar 18 with 2596 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 23:35 - Mar 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Benefit of hindsight eh.
We had some decent wins under the 532 as well by the way. Not sure you can build a pattern around two games to be honest.
I don't want to sound like 2T2B but this seems like a contorted way of having a pop at Holloway after a good week.
Get done at Reading under 442 and we'll forget all about formations. |
4 at the back and we were 2 down on 45 mins, not really working at that point, was it?
Was it the formation or that we pushed up in the 2nd half that changed it around?
We only really went 442 in the last 20 it was more 451 as Eze was playing far too deep. and we were not pressing first half.
I like and have said many times we should play 442 more often but it's not the be all.
You need the strikers to be playing off each other and one being able to hold the ball up and that's not happened. [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 8:38]
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| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 09:05 - Mar 18 with 2498 views | WestbourneR |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 08:31 - Mar 18 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
4 at the back and we were 2 down on 45 mins, not really working at that point, was it?
Was it the formation or that we pushed up in the 2nd half that changed it around?
We only really went 442 in the last 20 it was more 451 as Eze was playing far too deep. and we were not pressing first half.
I like and have said many times we should play 442 more often but it's not the be all.
You need the strikers to be playing off each other and one being able to hold the ball up and that's not happened. [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 8:38]
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I think Ollie did really well at half time. He got us going.
His pressing and working hard high up the pitch philosophy really gels well well when we then have wide attacking options.
Simple fact is though 4 at the back allowed us to score twice against one of the best teams away from home.
I love the fact Ollie is intergrating young youth system players into the team. Eze, Smyth, Furlong and Manning. All we need is Shodipo back for left wing.
I’ve given him serious stick but in this system his good work has the platform to shine. [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 13:35]
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| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 09:14 - Mar 18 with 2470 views | paulparker |
| It’s not about formations... Really?! on 14:59 - Mar 17 by Esox_Lucius |
and introducing Chris Ramsey into the 1st team set up. The attacking intent is back. |
Thank god for Chris Ramsey , all hail the master coach |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 09:34 - Mar 18 with 2405 views | jonno |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 09:05 - Mar 18 by WestbourneR |
I think Ollie did really well at half time. He got us going.
His pressing and working hard high up the pitch philosophy really gels well well when we then have wide attacking options.
Simple fact is though 4 at the back allowed us to score twice against one of the best teams away from home.
I love the fact Ollie is intergrating young youth system players into the team. Eze, Smyth, Furlong and Manning. All we need is Shodipo back for left wing.
I’ve given him serious stick but in this system his good work has the platform to shine. [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 13:35]
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To be fair to Ollie, we were supposed to be playing like we did in the second half from the start according to his post match interview. He was not happy at HT, and got them to push up and close down much quicker. Suddenly, you could see why Fulham play the way they do, with lots of passing through the midfield, because they can't actually play any other way. Once we started to press them and force them to hit it long their front players could not hold onto the ball. Even so, in the first half I thought we weren't bad, we were punished due to a couple of individual mistakes which on another day we may have got away with and had some chances ourselves. Big improvement over recent weeks, may be the four at the back as McLaren suggested on the TV. |  | | |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 13:09 - Mar 18 with 2248 views | daveB |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 20:29 - Mar 17 by WestbourneR |
It’s made a whole world of difference - and like you say many of us could see it needed to happen for a long time. It’s very odd got fixated on five.
Dave was saying on here a few days ago that we’d not have been safe and got many of the good results we’ve got (ignoring the numerous loses) if we hadn’t played five at the back - that the formation served its purpose.
It didn’t, it made us worse and it hamstrung the players.
We look a good team going forward now. |
Not sure I ignored all the losses playing with a back 3, I've never said the system was perfect or had no flaws. I just think it was a system that worked for the players at the start of the season, allowed protection to the defence and allowed us to press high up the pitch and get Freeman in good areas to create things. To say it never worked and held us back seems ridiculous to me. It worked in some games and didn't in others but whenever we played a back 4 last season we got ripped apart so made a lot of sense to try something different this year. Also meant we could play 2 up front which suits the forwards we have.
The switch to a back 4 has helped us away from home, i'm not sure performance wise we were any different in the last 2 home games to what we were doing before that.
I still don't think we have good enough wide players to make his work long term, with manning on the right cutting in and Pawel was on the left cutting inside all game yesterday (he did it well to be fair to him) but meant we were very narrow and still relying on Bidwell to put the crosses in.
If we are going to play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 next season then we'll need to improve out wide |  | | |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 13:12 - Mar 18 with 2241 views | johnhoop |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 09:05 - Mar 18 by WestbourneR |
I think Ollie did really well at half time. He got us going.
His pressing and working hard high up the pitch philosophy really gels well well when we then have wide attacking options.
Simple fact is though 4 at the back allowed us to score twice against one of the best teams away from home.
I love the fact Ollie is intergrating young youth system players into the team. Eze, Smyth, Furlong and Manning. All we need is Shodipo back for left wing.
I’ve given him serious stick but in this system his good work has the platform to shine. [Post edited 18 Mar 2018 13:35]
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Agree with your post Westbourne but bit alarmed by the idea that Ollie is interfering with the young youth system players. (“introducing” perhaps?). | | | |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 13:37 - Mar 18 with 2177 views | WestbourneR |
| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 13:12 - Mar 18 by johnhoop |
Agree with your post Westbourne but bit alarmed by the idea that Ollie is interfering with the young youth system players. (“introducing” perhaps?). |
Haha.. unfortunate iPhone typo... intergrating. | |
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| 4 at the back - It’s not about formations... Really?! on 16:40 - Mar 18 with 2021 views | Northernr |
Fair play, it's made huge difference, the switch to the back four in particular. |  | | |
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