| Today at Wimbledon — Column 14:41 - Jul 15 with 6114 views | Northernr |
Few bits and pieces on yesterday's friendly....
 Today at Wimbledon — Column 15th Jul 2018 14:34What better way to forget the inevitable, crushing disappointment of England’s World Cup exit by embarking on the inevitable, crushing disappointment of QPR’s 2018/19 campaign? LFW climbed back on the horse at Wimbledon on Saturday…  18
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 14:58 - Jul 15 with 4431 views | Dorse |
Worst. Spot-the-Ball. Ever. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 15:02 - Jul 15 with 4415 views | Rangersw12 |
I'm more concerned about this season than last and I think there is a genuine chance of going down if we don't add to the squad |  | | |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 15:08 - Jul 15 with 4397 views | Rangersw12 |
double post... [Post edited 15 Jul 2018 15:08]
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 22:37 - Jul 15 with 3745 views | rsonist |
Gee, if I didn't know any better I'd say the fruits of your month's reflections on Ollie bear an uncanny resemblance to your kneejerk reactions at the time :)
Thing is, when we talk about "the way it was done" then what it comes down to is simply the leaks. I don't see much to consider inappropriate anywhere else. Now there are "leaks" - backhand, deliberately manipulative and/or deceptive whispers by the administration - and then there are just leaks - information ineptly contained and irresponsibly released by a rogue element (for kudos on WATRBs oh let's say). There's no motive for the former here, so we're left with the latter; which was a shame but at the same time is no basis for questioning the nature, character, loyalty of the club as family/local institution and the way it operates. If one were feeling unkind one might even suggest the professionalism or lack thereof of the sacking rather matched that of Ollie's tenure... if one were feeling unkind.
As yourself and Baz have concurred, solid arguments for and against can be made and we'll see which way the cookie crumbles soon enough. But just wrt "if you’re from the school of thought that actually this team is a lot better than its recent league finishes and was being hampered by Holloway’s management, I fear you may be in for quite the awakening once we get underway on August 4" - if McLaren fails, even if the next ten managers fail, it won't automatically vindicate Ollie's methods or disprove the logic in trying something different. And if improving is harder than it looks will that mean we shouldn't have even bothered to try? No.
I also think that with this iPads techno-scepticism and England sliding doors reflection you're - consciously or otherwise- setting the stage for a failure narrative. We all know McClaren's got a tough job on; better we just wipe the slate clean and let his actions in charge with us speak for themselves. (For instance - is Leistner ever going to be quite the right defender for pushing up and playing the ball out? Not so sure myself Steve.) |  | | |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 22:45 - Jul 15 with 3730 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 15:02 - Jul 15 by Rangersw12 |
I'm more concerned about this season than last and I think there is a genuine chance of going down if we don't add to the squad |
It's alright. People were talking about us going down throughout last season. Even though we never came anywhere near going down. We're 4 weeks away from actually kicking a ball in the Championship.
I do see where you're coming from though but let's not panic yet eh? It's July! |  |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 22:56 - Jul 15 with 3697 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 22:37 - Jul 15 by rsonist |
Gee, if I didn't know any better I'd say the fruits of your month's reflections on Ollie bear an uncanny resemblance to your kneejerk reactions at the time :)
Thing is, when we talk about "the way it was done" then what it comes down to is simply the leaks. I don't see much to consider inappropriate anywhere else. Now there are "leaks" - backhand, deliberately manipulative and/or deceptive whispers by the administration - and then there are just leaks - information ineptly contained and irresponsibly released by a rogue element (for kudos on WATRBs oh let's say). There's no motive for the former here, so we're left with the latter; which was a shame but at the same time is no basis for questioning the nature, character, loyalty of the club as family/local institution and the way it operates. If one were feeling unkind one might even suggest the professionalism or lack thereof of the sacking rather matched that of Ollie's tenure... if one were feeling unkind.
As yourself and Baz have concurred, solid arguments for and against can be made and we'll see which way the cookie crumbles soon enough. But just wrt "if you’re from the school of thought that actually this team is a lot better than its recent league finishes and was being hampered by Holloway’s management, I fear you may be in for quite the awakening once we get underway on August 4" - if McLaren fails, even if the next ten managers fail, it won't automatically vindicate Ollie's methods or disprove the logic in trying something different. And if improving is harder than it looks will that mean we shouldn't have even bothered to try? No.
I also think that with this iPads techno-scepticism and England sliding doors reflection you're - consciously or otherwise- setting the stage for a failure narrative. We all know McClaren's got a tough job on; better we just wipe the slate clean and let his actions in charge with us speak for themselves. (For instance - is Leistner ever going to be quite the right defender for pushing up and playing the ball out? Not so sure myself Steve.) |
Look. It was an unnecessary sacking. Holloway was doing alright. We had Mark Bircham as assistant manager. Les Ferdinand as DOF.
Now we've got Steve Mclaren and a load of mint green umpa-lumpas who I know nothing about. | |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 05:49 - Jul 16 with 3534 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 22:56 - Jul 15 by CliveWilsonSaid |
Look. It was an unnecessary sacking. Holloway was doing alright. We had Mark Bircham as assistant manager. Les Ferdinand as DOF.
Now we've got Steve Mclaren and a load of mint green umpa-lumpas who I know nothing about. |
It wasn't a necessary sacking in that it had to be done to avoid relegation, but Holloway's two finishes in eighteen months were only C minus and C, bare passes. With some flashes of brilliance and plenty of god-awful results, it was f*ck knows which way we were going. He'd had a decent amount of time, so better make room for some-one else.
All this complaining over the sacking is trying to make out he was being badly treated. He wasn't. |  |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 08:00 - Jul 16 with 3436 views | Rs_Holy |
As usual Clive’s done a fantastic job in providing much food for thought… pretty impressive considering it’s a pre-season friendly against a League 1 side that he’s reporting on this time.
Also as usual most of what he writes really resonates with me (and almost certainly most other QPR fans too).
Like Clive I am incredibly uncomfortable at the way this whole thing has been handled by the club. You simply cannot get away from the fact that its piss poor management and a bloody awful way to treat a bloke who not only loves our club but did everything he was asked to do when given the manager’s job. Yes the away form was not great and some of his interviews were erratic but he did everything he was asked to do and looked like he was actually building some really solid foundations going forward. Even if you don’t think he was the right man for the job the way the news was leaked beforehand is out of order. Ollie would have seen the rumours; he may even have had friends and loved ones asking him what was going on days before he actually got the sack…Shocking!
I’d also add that I think there a many more high profile managers who probably wouldn’t have kept QPR up last season… It’s all conjecture I know but given everything about QPR right now unless you’ve got the passion that Ollie has it’s difficult to see how you can stomach the manager’s job when the going gets tough and you are told “that’s the squad, get on with it, good luck”.
And that brings me onto Shteve and in particular his body language. I didn’t like what I saw at his initial press conference if I’m honest. In some of the pictures he looked like he didn’t want to be there, he seemed uncomfortable answering some of the questions and Clive’s report sounds even more a case of “what the hell I am doing at this place”? As mentioned it really does feel like he’s drinking at the last chance saloon.
None of my mates support QPR but they do take an interest in us because they know that I’m a supporter i.e. I pay money and watch live games. I get the same comment from all of them “Its one thing to sack Ian Holloway but why the hell do it in favour of Steve McLaren”?
I sincerely hope we are all wrong. |  | | |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 09:30 - Jul 16 with 3307 views | stevec |
Probably your mates who don't support QPR, like mine, invariably support the big clubs and as such don't have a scooby doo about anything other than the top six and the last England tournament. That and failed England managers.
Consequently McLaren gets remembered almost exclusively for the Wally with the Brolly debacle whilst getting the QPR of the North, Middlesbro, to a League Cup win and to a UEFA cup final are both forgotten.
More recently, he coached a QPR promotion winning side rather ably whilst he was here and took over a Derby side a fair way behind us at the time into 3rd and the play off final.
I still believe, despite less than three weeks to kick off now, that he wouldn't have come here unless guaranteed he could bring a few decent players in. I fully expect at least a few loan signings from the Premier before Aug 4th.
This Division looks about as shÃt as it's ever been and for the Directors not to at least try and push forward this season would be a dereliction of duty. |  | | |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 10:24 - Jul 16 with 3235 views | daveB |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 05:49 - Jul 16 by isawqpratwcity |
It wasn't a necessary sacking in that it had to be done to avoid relegation, but Holloway's two finishes in eighteen months were only C minus and C, bare passes. With some flashes of brilliance and plenty of god-awful results, it was f*ck knows which way we were going. He'd had a decent amount of time, so better make room for some-one else.
All this complaining over the sacking is trying to make out he was being badly treated. He wasn't. |
The poorly treated part is in Fernandes being interviewed on a podcast saying Holloways position was under review and then the club leaking he was off days before they told the man himself. That was poor from the club |  | | |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 10:30 - Jul 16 with 3217 views | Myke |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 22:37 - Jul 15 by rsonist |
Gee, if I didn't know any better I'd say the fruits of your month's reflections on Ollie bear an uncanny resemblance to your kneejerk reactions at the time :)
Thing is, when we talk about "the way it was done" then what it comes down to is simply the leaks. I don't see much to consider inappropriate anywhere else. Now there are "leaks" - backhand, deliberately manipulative and/or deceptive whispers by the administration - and then there are just leaks - information ineptly contained and irresponsibly released by a rogue element (for kudos on WATRBs oh let's say). There's no motive for the former here, so we're left with the latter; which was a shame but at the same time is no basis for questioning the nature, character, loyalty of the club as family/local institution and the way it operates. If one were feeling unkind one might even suggest the professionalism or lack thereof of the sacking rather matched that of Ollie's tenure... if one were feeling unkind.
As yourself and Baz have concurred, solid arguments for and against can be made and we'll see which way the cookie crumbles soon enough. But just wrt "if you’re from the school of thought that actually this team is a lot better than its recent league finishes and was being hampered by Holloway’s management, I fear you may be in for quite the awakening once we get underway on August 4" - if McLaren fails, even if the next ten managers fail, it won't automatically vindicate Ollie's methods or disprove the logic in trying something different. And if improving is harder than it looks will that mean we shouldn't have even bothered to try? No.
I also think that with this iPads techno-scepticism and England sliding doors reflection you're - consciously or otherwise- setting the stage for a failure narrative. We all know McClaren's got a tough job on; better we just wipe the slate clean and let his actions in charge with us speak for themselves. (For instance - is Leistner ever going to be quite the right defender for pushing up and playing the ball out? Not so sure myself Steve.) |
Very interesting piece, rsonist. The last paragraph is particularly relevant. I think we all agree that Clive's reports, comments and analysis are of the very highest quality even if we disagree with individual bits and pieces contained within them. I believe also that Clive's opinion and knowledge is hugely influential not only on this site, but on the wider QPR community. For these reasons I think we must urge caution against too much negativity surrounding McClaren's appointment and the fledgling weeks of his tenure.
Let's remember what Steve has to do (and bear in mind he started when none of the players were actually present) Firstly, he has to actually get to know the players names particularly the younger, lesser-known ones. Then he has to analyse their strengths and weaknesses. He has to learn about their attitude and aptitude to new ideas. Then when he gets a chance to actually get them out on the training pitch, he has to start educating them about about how he want's them to play, what system he wants to use,how he wants them to react to a dozen different scenarios. This is difficult to do with a small group, but with 30 odd players it's a mammoth task. he is trying to make them all feel included, to keep them all onside from the get go, while all the while focusing on a very tough first task at Preston. And all this condensed into a few weeks.
In a nutshell, what I'm saying is, lets be patient,lets give the man a chance. We may well find ourselves in the bottom three after the first series of games, but nobody was ever relegated in September. Let's not have any mass hysteria if things begin slowly, because regardless of whether we agree with Steve's appointment or not ( I do), whether we agree that Holloway was shabbily treated or not (I do), we are all QPR supporters who want (or should want) the best for our little club | | | |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 10:40 - Jul 16 with 3178 views | Rs_Holy |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 09:30 - Jul 16 by stevec |
Probably your mates who don't support QPR, like mine, invariably support the big clubs and as such don't have a scooby doo about anything other than the top six and the last England tournament. That and failed England managers.
Consequently McLaren gets remembered almost exclusively for the Wally with the Brolly debacle whilst getting the QPR of the North, Middlesbro, to a League Cup win and to a UEFA cup final are both forgotten.
More recently, he coached a QPR promotion winning side rather ably whilst he was here and took over a Derby side a fair way behind us at the time into 3rd and the play off final.
I still believe, despite less than three weeks to kick off now, that he wouldn't have come here unless guaranteed he could bring a few decent players in. I fully expect at least a few loan signings from the Premier before Aug 4th.
This Division looks about as shÃt as it's ever been and for the Directors not to at least try and push forward this season would be a dereliction of duty. |
"Consequently McLaren gets remembered almost exclusively for the Wally with the Brolly debacle whilst getting the QPR of the North, Middlesbro, to a League Cup win and to a UEFA cup final are both forgotten".
Yes, 'the Wally with the Brolly' gets mentioned alot but in fairness they do know that he won the Top League in Holland and did very well at Boro.
The overiding opinion is that he's lost his mojo and has failed at every one of his recent jobs. | | | |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 10:46 - Jul 16 with 3156 views | dolcelatte |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 10:40 - Jul 16 by Rs_Holy |
"Consequently McLaren gets remembered almost exclusively for the Wally with the Brolly debacle whilst getting the QPR of the North, Middlesbro, to a League Cup win and to a UEFA cup final are both forgotten".
Yes, 'the Wally with the Brolly' gets mentioned alot but in fairness they do know that he won the Top League in Holland and did very well at Boro.
The overiding opinion is that he's lost his mojo and has failed at every one of his recent jobs. |
As had Holloway in his premier season and at Millwall before his "success" here.
I'd much rather have the likes of Steve in charge of bringing youth on. |  |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 10:51 - Jul 16 with 3147 views | SimonJames |
If we finish better than 14th and play consistently, I think we'll have done better than we would have if IH had stayed in charge.
But I'd like to finish Top 10 and there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of that happening under IH. |  |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 11:09 - Jul 16 with 3101 views | Dorse |
You know what scares me? I mean, apart from space bats and kids running with scissors.
4-2-3-1.
Have we ever made that work? And will someone please explain why successive managers keep playing Washington on the left?
Lynch in a 4 man defence = 90 solid minutes of blaming Bidwell for everything from the sack of Magdeburg to the cancellation of Star Trek. | |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 11:35 - Jul 16 with 3038 views | qprd |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 11:09 - Jul 16 by Dorse |
You know what scares me? I mean, apart from space bats and kids running with scissors.
4-2-3-1.
Have we ever made that work? And will someone please explain why successive managers keep playing Washington on the left?
Lynch in a 4 man defence = 90 solid minutes of blaming Bidwell for everything from the sack of Magdeburg to the cancellation of Star Trek. |
Yes. Just to add a bit of negativity regarding the 4-2-3-1 with our personnel.
-Two sitting midfielders (likely Luongo and Scowen) likely mean one or more of Cousins, Manning and Goss is going to struggle to get playing time
-Shifting Freeman out to a wing to accommodate Eze as a 10. Freeman is much less effective in attack from the wing. He's also very underrated defensively in the center of the park, and you lose that side of his game by shunting him to the wing. The drop off from Freman to Eze defending the center of the park is very very steep, considering htat Eze hasn't shown much interest in defending yet Finally, Freeman's shown pretty bad positional discipline defending the wing (think Brentford at home last season).
-wsahington as a wide man in a 4-2-3-1 leaves a lot to be desired, particularly as he cant take on defenders for sh*t. between the two flanks, hes much more effective occupying the left, where he can cut onto his right foot and shoot at goal with a broader angle... problem is that if you play him on the left, you force luke to the right, slightly neutralizing his incredible left foot crossing ability.
-matt smith leading the line as a solo striker is problematic too. hes just too immobile and his lack of speed will allow opposing backlines to creep further and further up the pitch in possession (as theres no counter attacking threat to punish).unlike a seb polter, who was effective at collecting in the middle of the park, holding the ball up and releasing others before joining in on the attack, smith doesn't have this piece to his game, so hes going to struggle to facilitate any counterattack
there are quite a few decent pieces on the squad, but they don't quite fit together. there are quite a few quirky things McLaren could do to address some of these issues (ie playing bright as a 9), but theyre somewhat risky [Post edited 16 Jul 2018 11:38]
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 12:22 - Jul 16 with 2963 views | rsonist |
If successive former managers haven't executed 4-2-3-1 successfully then you should be feeling more optimistic and not less that we've hired someone with greater experience in it.
No one is "shifted out to the wing" in a correct 4-3-2-1, not unless there's a covering movement elsewhere.
"there are quite a few decent pieces on the squad, but they don't quite fit together"
Yes this is fair. It's the product of having someone incoherent and irrational in charge fixated on having shiny new 'options' to play with and using them and losing them half-baked - inefficiency and wastage we can ill afford in our situation.
At least he didn't use an iPad though eh. | | | |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 12:34 - Jul 16 with 2931 views | TheChef |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 10:30 - Jul 16 by Myke |
Very interesting piece, rsonist. The last paragraph is particularly relevant. I think we all agree that Clive's reports, comments and analysis are of the very highest quality even if we disagree with individual bits and pieces contained within them. I believe also that Clive's opinion and knowledge is hugely influential not only on this site, but on the wider QPR community. For these reasons I think we must urge caution against too much negativity surrounding McClaren's appointment and the fledgling weeks of his tenure.
Let's remember what Steve has to do (and bear in mind he started when none of the players were actually present) Firstly, he has to actually get to know the players names particularly the younger, lesser-known ones. Then he has to analyse their strengths and weaknesses. He has to learn about their attitude and aptitude to new ideas. Then when he gets a chance to actually get them out on the training pitch, he has to start educating them about about how he want's them to play, what system he wants to use,how he wants them to react to a dozen different scenarios. This is difficult to do with a small group, but with 30 odd players it's a mammoth task. he is trying to make them all feel included, to keep them all onside from the get go, while all the while focusing on a very tough first task at Preston. And all this condensed into a few weeks.
In a nutshell, what I'm saying is, lets be patient,lets give the man a chance. We may well find ourselves in the bottom three after the first series of games, but nobody was ever relegated in September. Let's not have any mass hysteria if things begin slowly, because regardless of whether we agree with Steve's appointment or not ( I do), whether we agree that Holloway was shabbily treated or not (I do), we are all QPR supporters who want (or should want) the best for our little club |
Agreed - regardless of the rights or wrongs of Holloway's departure, we have to put that behind us and support the new manager and his squad.
Given his coaching ability I am cautiously optimistic that he might get more out of the players, but overall I don't expect our final table position to be that much different from last season. |  |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 12:36 - Jul 16 with 2925 views | simmo |
Too many cooks... |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 12:38 - Jul 16 with 2916 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 10:24 - Jul 16 by daveB |
The poorly treated part is in Fernandes being interviewed on a podcast saying Holloways position was under review and then the club leaking he was off days before they told the man himself. That was poor from the club |
As I remember the podcast, Fernandes said something innocuous like 'of course Holloway's position is being reviewed as you'd expect at this stage of the season' (I welcome anyone posting the actual quote). I certainly didn't find what he said particularly ominous.
You also have to consider Holloway's own comments after Leeds where he declared himself open to negotiating a contract extension.
https://www.football.london/queens-park-rangers-fc/ian-holloway-qpr-leeds-future
The comment about 'fans' rumours' gives the lie to the club leaking his impending dismissal, at that stage, at least. It may also have forced a change in how the club was preparing to broach the subject with Holloway.
Clive said that he knew about the sacking long before it happened, but no other details were forthcoming. I'd like to hear more about how the club was behaving badly before I'd criticise the club on that. Who did the leaking, why, and when?
It certainly does not automatically reflect badly on the club to dismiss a favoured son. Nor does it to do so within weeks of the deaths of another favoured son/close friend and Holloway's mother. Sometimes, the timing isn't the best, but things happen anyway. | |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 13:34 - Jul 16 with 2850 views | Jeff |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 11:09 - Jul 16 by Dorse |
You know what scares me? I mean, apart from space bats and kids running with scissors.
4-2-3-1.
Have we ever made that work? And will someone please explain why successive managers keep playing Washington on the left?
Lynch in a 4 man defence = 90 solid minutes of blaming Bidwell for everything from the sack of Magdeburg to the cancellation of Star Trek. |
i mean, we DID win the League playing 4231 not too long ago? |  |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 13:59 - Jul 16 with 2792 views | Northernr |
I quite like 4231, and we've got loads of talented players who can play in the three, so that's actually a positive if they can make it work. | | | |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 14:26 - Jul 16 with 2743 views | DannyPaddox |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 12:36 - Jul 16 by simmo |
Too many cooks... |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 14:33 - Jul 16 with 2726 views | Mick_S |
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| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 14:36 - Jul 16 with 2721 views | simmo |
| Today at Wimbledon — Column on 13:59 - Jul 16 by Northernr |
I quite like 4231, and we've got loads of talented players who can play in the three, so that's actually a positive if they can make it work. |
-----------Smith-------------
BOS------Eze----Freeeman
----Scowen--Luongo------
Bids---Hall--Leinster-Furs
---------Lumley-------------
We can make that work, but on Saturday we just looked narrow and basic. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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