| England Youth 10:28 - Jul 16 with 4689 views | kingsburyR |
Would any championship team benefit from adopting a policy of taking the cream of the young English/British talent on loan, with the parent club footing the bill in wages as a trade off for first team experience?
The likes of Foden at Man City will play bugger all first team football this coming season but is now at a level when he isnt out of place in the Prem or Champ.
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| Dont know why we bother. .... but we do! |
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| England Youth on 11:03 - Jul 16 with 4628 views | paulparker |
if I were Foden, Hudson-Odoi, Brewster, I would get the hell away from my clubs and be going to Germany, France Portugal or spain ,
they are neve rgoing to be anywhere near playing 1st team football , look at the transfer business the prem clubs have done its all foreign players , go and do what Sancho, Willock, Lookman have done , go and make a name for yourself and get some proper coaching and 1st team action in those countries , why go to a championship club and have the likes of Pullis and co coach it out of you , case in point is Kieran dowell who had a brilliant season at forest last year and now should be pushing for Everons 1st team , but you know they will loan him to Leeds or Boro , whats the point he is 20 now and should be at a higher level but Everton have no interest in playing him , another is Lewis baker who has been loaned here there and everywhere he should be in the Prem and knocking the door of the England squad but has been loaned to Boro and now leeds, why , whats the point , Patrick bamford has been ruined bumming around the championship , these lads need to go , I see panzo at Chelsea has gone to Monaco hopefully he is knocking down the door of being in the 1st team |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| England Youth on 11:38 - Jul 16 with 4558 views | kingsburyR |
| England Youth on 11:03 - Jul 16 by paulparker |
if I were Foden, Hudson-Odoi, Brewster, I would get the hell away from my clubs and be going to Germany, France Portugal or spain ,
they are neve rgoing to be anywhere near playing 1st team football , look at the transfer business the prem clubs have done its all foreign players , go and do what Sancho, Willock, Lookman have done , go and make a name for yourself and get some proper coaching and 1st team action in those countries , why go to a championship club and have the likes of Pullis and co coach it out of you , case in point is Kieran dowell who had a brilliant season at forest last year and now should be pushing for Everons 1st team , but you know they will loan him to Leeds or Boro , whats the point he is 20 now and should be at a higher level but Everton have no interest in playing him , another is Lewis baker who has been loaned here there and everywhere he should be in the Prem and knocking the door of the England squad but has been loaned to Boro and now leeds, why , whats the point , Patrick bamford has been ruined bumming around the championship , these lads need to go , I see panzo at Chelsea has gone to Monaco hopefully he is knocking down the door of being in the 1st team |
Good point well made! | |
| Dont know why we bother. .... but we do! |
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| England Youth on 13:55 - Jul 16 with 4441 views | daveB |
trouble is the fees clubs want mean the championship clubs can't afford them.
Real shame when you see how well England did then they return and the likes of Rashford, Lingaard, Loftus Cheek and Sterling have been replaced at club level by new big money signings already whilst the likes of Barkley are left rotting in the reserves |  | | |
| England Youth on 14:08 - Jul 16 with 4417 views | Northernr |
As DaveB says the real shame of it all is that Premier League clubs won't loan them out without huge fees being paid.
The Sam Gallagher example is the best one - very promising target man at Southampton not getting near their team, Birmingham paid all his wages (£10k a week) and added £10k a week to that themselves as well as paying a loan fee - north of £4m just to borrow him for a season. Norwich have just agreed to pay £1.5m plus all his £40k a week to borrow Jordan Rhodes. Bristol City paid big money to have Tammy Abraham.
It's disgusting really, detrimental to players not getting any football, detrimental to clubs at our level. But it's market forces. Aston Villa paid £12m for three separate forwards (Hogan, Kodija, McCormick) when they came to this level, Newcastle paid £10m for Gayle - so that now becomes the Championship ngoing rate for strikers. If clubs like Birmingham, Wolves etc are happy to pay it it becomes the going rate.
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| England Youth on 14:23 - Jul 16 with 4381 views | TacticalR |
People knock it, but rotting in the reserves is one of the big growth areas in employment and a very well-remunerated occupation. |  |
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| England Youth on 17:23 - Jul 16 with 4213 views | runningman75 |
I would have thought for career development a place in a Championship team would be good for both the player and loaning club so surprised there are barriers. Remember a player called Kyle Walker who did not do badly with us. What happened to him? |  | | |
| England Youth on 19:51 - Jul 16 with 4114 views | derbyhoop |
If England are going to build on the success at u17, u20 levels, and improve on a WC semi final place, the youngsters are going to have to start playing competitive football. The majority have been hoarded by the big PL teams and paid so much, only a handful of Championship clubs can afford them. If the PL teams are prepared to let them go. It is better to get them playing 1st team football and, if that means Germany, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, etc, no be it. But its a huge step for an 18 year old..
The best solution would be to get them out to a variety of Championship clubs. Our recent success in bringing them through to first team, and McLaren's coaching nay attract 1 or 2. Provide the PL clubs aren't too greedy. I'm not hopeful. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| England Youth on 20:33 - Jul 16 with 4088 views | daveB |
One thing you'd hope England players have learnt from this summer is you don't have to start at Chelsea or Man Utd to play in a World Cup.
Maguire, Trippier, Stones, Walker, Sterling, Vardy and Alli all started at non premier league clubs and made their own way in the game. Maguire showed you don't need years of champions league football to do well in a World Cup playing for mid table premier league sides is more beneficial to them than sitting in the reserves.
Some players will be happy to just stay at the big clubs and earn good money but I'd like to think most players have ambition and the chance to be involved in a summer like we've just had has to be a massive motivation to english players in their late teens early 20's at the moment and they have big career decisions to make soon | | | |
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| England Youth on 21:36 - Jul 16 with 4040 views | nadera78 |
Actually, there seems to be a trend at the moment of young players leaving PL academies and heading to European clubs. I think it's a great idea, and I'd encourage young players to do it - get the most out of the facilities and coaching in this country to get things moving, but don't sign a professional contract. They'll be exposed to so much more overseas, they'll be playing games instead of rotting in the U23s, and they won't be slugging out a monotonous season like in the Championship.
There was a list recently, something like: Jadon Sancho (Dortmund) / Mandela Egbo (Monchengladbach) / Keanan Bennetts (Monchengladbach) Jonathan Panzo (Monaco) / Noni Madueke (PSV Eindhoven) / Chris Willock (Benfica) / Kaylen Hinds (Wolfsburg) / George Hirst (Leuven).
Also, I think Ademola Lookman chose a loan at Leipzig over Derby, and Reece Oxford was in Germany too. | | | |
| England Youth on 11:17 - Jul 18 with 3879 views | themodfather |
a very big point imo.....we produce talent but few get regular games, especially in the prem, yet the prem is a proving ground for french, spanish, portugeese and argy talent/?/???
foden needs game time for him, club and country, to name one....
solving this dilemma is the next step to team england's recovery. | | | |
| England Youth on 15:28 - Jul 19 with 3656 views | whittocksRs |
| England Youth on 20:33 - Jul 16 by daveB |
One thing you'd hope England players have learnt from this summer is you don't have to start at Chelsea or Man Utd to play in a World Cup.
Maguire, Trippier, Stones, Walker, Sterling, Vardy and Alli all started at non premier league clubs and made their own way in the game. Maguire showed you don't need years of champions league football to do well in a World Cup playing for mid table premier league sides is more beneficial to them than sitting in the reserves.
Some players will be happy to just stay at the big clubs and earn good money but I'd like to think most players have ambition and the chance to be involved in a summer like we've just had has to be a massive motivation to english players in their late teens early 20's at the moment and they have big career decisions to make soon |
This is true and I think Southgate will be emboldened to get rid of deadwood like Phil Jones and Welbeck, who definitely were picked due to their clubs. (You could argue they were in because they're versatile but you wouldn't ask a versatile donkey to take you down a motorway, would you?) | | | |
| England Youth on 16:37 - Jul 19 with 3622 views | rsonist |
| England Youth on 15:28 - Jul 19 by whittocksRs |
This is true and I think Southgate will be emboldened to get rid of deadwood like Phil Jones and Welbeck, who definitely were picked due to their clubs. (You could argue they were in because they're versatile but you wouldn't ask a versatile donkey to take you down a motorway, would you?) |
Think they were more picked due to injury and the tournament coming just too soon for some to go all in on. I'd expect Gomez (who Walker's role in the three was originally intended for) and Lascelles to come in for Jones and Cahill soon enough, for instance - Sessegnon too most likely if he steps up as well as expected. Lallana would probably have had Welbeck's place. |  | | |
| England Youth on 07:51 - Jul 23 with 3472 views | rsonist |
Go on son get out of there. | | | |
| England Youth on 08:13 - Jul 23 with 3431 views | paulparker |
| England Youth on 07:51 - Jul 23 by rsonist |
Go on son get out of there. |
imo Lookman is a better prospect than Sterling, this lad can finish in front of goal, this boy has the lot , Everton are starting to resemble us under TF , buying loads of players without a system and a owner who doesn't have a clue, 50 million on Richarlson FFS
lookman is doing the right thing he had a great loan period there I hope southgate gets him in the full England team ASAP | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| England Youth on 08:31 - Jul 23 with 3399 views | headhoops |
sad thing is this is not exclusive to the Premiership Clubs. The Championship Clubs do it as well. Over inflate the fees of their squad/fringe players and make it hard for the Div 1 and 2 clubs to afford the signing on fees/wages. Everything about Football now is about the money. Leicesters premiership win certainly stunned the football world - figures suggest the squad and wages were still around £120 million. How many Championship could afford that? And the effect ripples down. |  |
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| England Youth on 08:38 - Jul 23 with 3389 views | rsonist |
This is very astute and something a lot of the old school in football are struggling to grasp IMO.
http://trainingground.guru/articles/bierhoff-why-germany-treats-players-like-ind
GERMANY team manager Oliver Bierhoff says modern players are ‘independent entrepreneurs’ who will not accept the ‘command and control’ style of leadership.
Bierhoff, who has been in post since 2004, said the days of strict hierarchies and players having to blindly follow orders have long gone.
“The new generation does not just want to execute, they want to shape things themselves, understand them and tackle challenges,” he told Adidas’s Gameplan A.
"They must be completely convinced of the vision. [... ]I am not a fan of just writing a few buzzwords on posters. If there is no energy or life behind the culture, it will never become established in a team." | | | |
| England Youth on 08:47 - Jul 23 with 3363 views | rsonist |
| England Youth on 08:13 - Jul 23 by paulparker |
imo Lookman is a better prospect than Sterling, this lad can finish in front of goal, this boy has the lot , Everton are starting to resemble us under TF , buying loads of players without a system and a owner who doesn't have a clue, 50 million on Richarlson FFS
lookman is doing the right thing he had a great loan period there I hope southgate gets him in the full England team ASAP |
Thing is as well, he (and plenty other young English players) have been on Leipzig's radar for years. They know his game, know their own game, they want to train him and play him. Clear intentions and pathways. It's completely straightforward stuff but compare that to whatever Everton's "strategy" has been throughout... snap him up before anyone else, sit on him, keep buying other players....?????.... | | | |
| England Youth on 11:09 - Jul 23 with 3252 views | rsonist |
Not English but sums it up. | | | |
| England Youth on 11:22 - Jul 23 with 3233 views | willis1980 |
Whether rightly or wrongly the clubs only care about their own interests and several large clubs will hoover up and warehouse young talent just to ensure that one of their competitors doesnt get one up on them.
i can imagine many of these young players get disillusioned when being sent from pillar to post or rotting away without the sniff of an opportunity.
i can imagine some of these clubs adopt a similar approach to my other half, see something buy something and put it in the wardrobe only to forget about it. Shes no imelda marcos but does have plenty of things in there with the tags on and doesnt seem to have any intention of wearing it. "throwaway culture" | | | |
| England Youth on 11:23 - Jul 23 with 3232 views | paulparker |
| England Youth on 11:09 - Jul 23 by rsonist |
Not English but sums it up. |
More fool these youngsters who go there still , Chelsea have ruined more young careers in the English game than , Birds, Booze, page 3 girls ever did | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| England Youth on 01:04 - Jul 25 with 3051 views | timcocking |
I don't think loans should ever be allowed any team period. |  | | |
| England Youth on 06:56 - Jul 25 with 2988 views | californiahoop |
| England Youth on 11:03 - Jul 16 by paulparker |
if I were Foden, Hudson-Odoi, Brewster, I would get the hell away from my clubs and be going to Germany, France Portugal or spain ,
they are neve rgoing to be anywhere near playing 1st team football , look at the transfer business the prem clubs have done its all foreign players , go and do what Sancho, Willock, Lookman have done , go and make a name for yourself and get some proper coaching and 1st team action in those countries , why go to a championship club and have the likes of Pullis and co coach it out of you , case in point is Kieran dowell who had a brilliant season at forest last year and now should be pushing for Everons 1st team , but you know they will loan him to Leeds or Boro , whats the point he is 20 now and should be at a higher level but Everton have no interest in playing him , another is Lewis baker who has been loaned here there and everywhere he should be in the Prem and knocking the door of the England squad but has been loaned to Boro and now leeds, why , whats the point , Patrick bamford has been ruined bumming around the championship , these lads need to go , I see panzo at Chelsea has gone to Monaco hopefully he is knocking down the door of being in the 1st team |
Bravo, well put! | | | |
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