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If we take the child are we going to take any others she pumps out. Surely they will be as Brittish as Jarrah( cool name... named after a Jihadi Warlord)...
Good. Having worked in local govt I've seen the desolation that happens when children are neglected and is something which I care deeply about.
I agree absolutely with what NW5 wrote: "...She should be allowed back to Britain, where she should be investigated, and then prosecuted, if her actions are deemed prosecutable.
That's the way the law should work. Once you start picking and choosing who the law applies to, you're on your way to disaster.
I don't have the slightest bit of sympathy with her. I'd be perfectly happy to see her in a prison cell..."
As mentioned before, the Home Ofice strategy was published in 2018, was endorsed by Javed (since it's his Dept) and it clearly states that in circumstances like this, the actions mentioned above should take place. He's grandstanding for the PM job when May resigns and the care of a baby is at risk as a result of it.
Agree with all of this. The whole point of a legal system is that it has to be applied equally for it to work. If we suddenly decide that the rules don't apply to certain people, just because we don't like them, then things can fall apart scarily quickly.
Obviously any sane person would look at Begum's views and be repulsed by them, but your emotions are irrelevant to the legal processes which the government are obliged to follow. Bring her back here, interview her, identify whether or not she's committed a crime, and then prosecute her if there's reason to believe that she has.
Everything beyond that is tabloids stoking your outrage in order to sell papers, or Tories positioning themselves for a leadership election. It is depressing, though not particularly surprising, that so many people on here and elsewhere are falling for it.
Agree with all of this. The whole point of a legal system is that it has to be applied equally for it to work. If we suddenly decide that the rules don't apply to certain people, just because we don't like them, then things can fall apart scarily quickly.
Obviously any sane person would look at Begum's views and be repulsed by them, but your emotions are irrelevant to the legal processes which the government are obliged to follow. Bring her back here, interview her, identify whether or not she's committed a crime, and then prosecute her if there's reason to believe that she has.
Everything beyond that is tabloids stoking your outrage in order to sell papers, or Tories positioning themselves for a leadership election. It is depressing, though not particularly surprising, that so many people on here and elsewhere are falling for it.
[Post edited 21 Feb 2019 15:28]
I'm not falling for anything, most importantly her pretense at being sorry. She has regrets but only as it's all gone wrong, that's want she is sorry about
Agree with all of this. The whole point of a legal system is that it has to be applied equally for it to work. If we suddenly decide that the rules don't apply to certain people, just because we don't like them, then things can fall apart scarily quickly.
Obviously any sane person would look at Begum's views and be repulsed by them, but your emotions are irrelevant to the legal processes which the government are obliged to follow. Bring her back here, interview her, identify whether or not she's committed a crime, and then prosecute her if there's reason to believe that she has.
Everything beyond that is tabloids stoking your outrage in order to sell papers, or Tories positioning themselves for a leadership election. It is depressing, though not particularly surprising, that so many people on here and elsewhere are falling for it.
[Post edited 21 Feb 2019 15:28]
I don't read tabloids. I can make my own mind up. Ive listened to her interviews. I don't want her back in the country. End of.
Agree with all of this. The whole point of a legal system is that it has to be applied equally for it to work. If we suddenly decide that the rules don't apply to certain people, just because we don't like them, then things can fall apart scarily quickly.
Obviously any sane person would look at Begum's views and be repulsed by them, but your emotions are irrelevant to the legal processes which the government are obliged to follow. Bring her back here, interview her, identify whether or not she's committed a crime, and then prosecute her if there's reason to believe that she has.
Everything beyond that is tabloids stoking your outrage in order to sell papers, or Tories positioning themselves for a leadership election. It is depressing, though not particularly surprising, that so many people on here and elsewhere are falling for it.
[Post edited 21 Feb 2019 15:28]
100% in agreement with this. Radicalised here, should face the courts here and hopefully be rehabilitated here. Stripping her of her citizenship gives the extremists more ammunition in their attempts to radicalised more young people. We have to stop the cycle.
If she returned to society here she would need security costing £100's of thousands maybe a new identity, the cost with little or no return means she is a parasite. living off the good people of this Country.
If she returned to society here she would need security costing £100's of thousands maybe a new identity, the cost with little or no return means she is a parasite. living off the good people of this Country.
and still able to cause havock if she turnsout to be a 'sleeper', and blows apart a full tube train one morning.
If she did and if she killed one of your loved ones, will you still turn the other cheek and say 'oh bless, but we did the christian thing'?
If that's the way you see things then we may as well lock up all criminals for life as they may come out of prison and re offend. I don't like what she's done. I think she should answer for her actions in a UK court. If the courts decide she should go to prison then that's how it should be. Her baby certainly shouldn't be punished for the mistakes his mother made when she was 15.
If that's the way you see things then we may as well lock up all criminals for life as they may come out of prison and re offend. I don't like what she's done. I think she should answer for her actions in a UK court. If the courts decide she should go to prison then that's how it should be. Her baby certainly shouldn't be punished for the mistakes his mother made when she was 15.
She should answer for her actions in a Syrian court.
She should answer for her actions in a Syrian court.
She has committed the crime of joining or supporting a terrorist organisation. That crime was first committed in the UK when she decided to book a flight to Turkey to join IS. A bit like if a player is fouled outside the box but then goes down inside the box, the free kick is bought back to where the initial infringement took place. Besides, I doubt there are any courts in Syria that would be able to try her.
Well, she wouldn't be a very good sleeper, given everyone knows who she is. (And I imagine she'll be under heavy surveillance.)
Also … not the point. You can't pick and choose who the law applies to. It applies to everyone, or it has no meaning.
So, here's a what if.
What if someone with Irish grandparents did something illegal. They left the country and went to the US and, before returning, the UK government decided to remove their citizenship since, through their grandparents, they had Irish citizenship. It would be easier for the US or Irish to manage them.
If she returned to society here she would need security costing £100's of thousands maybe a new identity, the cost with little or no return means she is a parasite. living off the good people of this Country.
The problems with discussions like these are how quickly they devolve into people spewing misinformation.
I'm not defending this girl's right to retain her citizenship
but where do you get the claim that she would entitle to state-funded security? And why do you think this would cost hundreds of thousands? i mean...
The problems with discussions like these are how quickly they devolve into people spewing misinformation.
I'm not defending this girl's right to retain her citizenship
but where do you get the claim that she would entitle to state-funded security? And why do you think this would cost hundreds of thousands? i mean...
Straight from someone on the Politics today, forget his name There are people who would want to hurt her , she just has to say she is scared for her life , for many many years
I don't read tabloids. I can make my own mind up. Ive listened to her interviews. I don't want her back in the country. End of.
Right, you don't like her, neither do lots of people. I'm sure if she moved in next door to me, I'd have some mixed feelings too. All of that's completely irrelevant to whether or not it's legal for the government to revoke her citizenship and make her stateless.
If you believe the two questions are in any way linked then yep, sorry, you've absolutely bought into a tabloid narrative, wherever you happen to have picked it up from.
What if someone with Irish grandparents did something illegal. They left the country and went to the US and, before returning, the UK government decided to remove their citizenship since, through their grandparents, they had Irish citizenship. It would be easier for the US or Irish to manage them.
Fair?
If the person in your example already had US or Irish citizenship, it would be legal for the UK to revoke their British citizenship and refuse them entry to the UK.
If they were solely UK nationals, regardless of whether or not they might qualify for another country's citizenship through their grandparents or whatever, then it would be incompatible with the UK's international agreements & obligations for them to revoke that person's citizenship and make them stateless. This is the situation with Begum.
Whether you regard that distinction as "fair" or not is beside the point. That's the way international law works, the approach by which the UK government has agreed to abide, and the protection to which all UK citizens are entitled, regardless of what we think of their political views.
Right, you don't like her, neither do lots of people. I'm sure if she moved in next door to me, I'd have some mixed feelings too. All of that's completely irrelevant to whether or not it's legal for the government to revoke her citizenship and make her stateless.
If you believe the two questions are in any way linked then yep, sorry, you've absolutely bought into a tabloid narrative, wherever you happen to have picked it up from.
So people can`t be free thinking and should only digest what the tabloid and msm feel like drip feeding us when and if we need to know, or are we allowed to think outside the box for ourslves from time to time. It`s plain to see this piece of shite has no remorse or is she showing one once of compassion towards innocent victims thousands of miles from the frontline. As for her child, let it rot, just like the severed head she see in a bin who was someone elses baby, who she cared not one jot for. As for the law being exercised , i would take that from an MP who has a team of international lawyers at his beck and call, and is therefore fully aware of how the law works over someone who read up on it on wikipedia.
'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.'
Can't we have a reasoned debate where differing opinions are expressed without calling for a week old baby to rot? Think it might be best for all if this thread is shut down.
Can't we have a reasoned debate where differing opinions are expressed without calling for a week old baby to rot? Think it might be best for all if this thread is shut down.
Why because of one comment you don’t like, there’s five pages on here with lots of different opinions and none of it has got out of hand, Sharpy was just comparing the fact that she’s witnessed people’s death and wasn’t fazed by it, she is shocked by the home secretary’s decision but not shocked seeing a head in a bin!! So she shouldn’t be shocked if people are wishing I’ll on her and her family.
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
I don't think it had got particularly out of hand until it was suggested that it would be OK for a new born baby to die. For me that's taking it too far.
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