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Not a party political thing or a reason for an LFW punch-up, but I keep having the eerie feeling that eventually every single Tory MP will put themselves forward leaving Teresa May with the casting vote. At which point, she cackles maniacally and slowly points at Jacob Rees Mogg sitting at the back, with the entire parliamentary party turning to stare at him... He is seen to gulp and mutter 'Oh, copulate my happenstance'
'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'
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Tory Leadership Race on 16:48 - Jun 25 with 2244 views
Tory Leadership Race on 16:40 - Jun 25 by BucksRanger
No mention of Johnson or Hunt in that article. Neither of them ever brought before a judge on a manslaughter charge. You are just throwing left wing rhetoric at the Tory boys again. All politicians with a soupcon of power could be trashed in similar fashion. Politicians on the left and the right are all as despicable as each other. Open your eyes. The whole political edifice needs pulling down. The boys you support are as bad as the ones you traduce.
I'm not sure how else I can put it?
The boys (and girls) I support have never been in government so maybe they would be a good fit for the 'pull the house down' situation you want.
Let's not get into a boring argument that will piss everyone off including ourselves. I Just put a statement out there and backed it up with a independent article but it's not enough for you (which is your prerogative) so lets leave it here.
[Post edited 25 Jun 2019 16:53]
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Tory Leadership Race on 17:05 - Jun 25 with 2197 views
Tory Leadership Race on 16:48 - Jun 25 by BazzaInTheLoft
I'm not sure how else I can put it?
The boys (and girls) I support have never been in government so maybe they would be a good fit for the 'pull the house down' situation you want.
Let's not get into a boring argument that will piss everyone off including ourselves. I Just put a statement out there and backed it up with a independent article but it's not enough for you (which is your prerogative) so lets leave it here.
[Post edited 25 Jun 2019 16:53]
You stood for the Labour Party and they most certainly have been in government. Surely Tony Blair is a much better candidate for standing trial for manslaughter I'd have thought. However as Karl Marx is your icon here at LFW perhaps you prefer to be thought of as a communist or a revolutionary socialist and you have just buried your true proclivities within the Labour party for now.
It's true I have no faith in either the Conservatives or the Labour parties but I don't want any anti-democratic communists taking their place. It's time for a realignment of political thinking and for people to have a voting system that allows for something greater than first past the post. What you seem to want is a one party state.
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Tory Leadership Race on 17:12 - Jun 25 with 2187 views
Tory Leadership Race on 17:05 - Jun 25 by BucksRanger
You stood for the Labour Party and they most certainly have been in government. Surely Tony Blair is a much better candidate for standing trial for manslaughter I'd have thought. However as Karl Marx is your icon here at LFW perhaps you prefer to be thought of as a communist or a revolutionary socialist and you have just buried your true proclivities within the Labour party for now.
It's true I have no faith in either the Conservatives or the Labour parties but I don't want any anti-democratic communists taking their place. It's time for a realignment of political thinking and for people to have a voting system that allows for something greater than first past the post. What you seem to want is a one party state.
Agree about Blair but other than that your post is deranged. Have good night.
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Tory Leadership Race on 17:22 - Jun 25 with 2178 views
Tory Leadership Race on 17:12 - Jun 25 by BazzaInTheLoft
Agree about Blair but other than that your post is deranged. Have good night.
Not half as deranged as you not wanting drug dealers incarcerated for the filth they import and sell. I could make a good case for them to all be charged with attempted manslaughter. Much stronger than your silly left wing rhetoric against Johnson and Hunt.
You have a good night too.
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Tory Leadership Race on 22:27 - Jun 25 with 2067 views
Tory Leadership Race on 15:46 - Jun 25 by kensalriser
I'm actually starting to want Johnson to win because his ensuing monumental fck ups and fall from grace will be an absolute pleasure to witness. It'll be like Portillo losing his seat x100.
Your wish is very likely to be granted. The question is will he take everything down with him?
Air hostess clique
1
Tory Leadership Race on 23:28 - Jun 25 with 2022 views
Tory Leadership Race on 17:05 - Jun 25 by BucksRanger
You stood for the Labour Party and they most certainly have been in government. Surely Tony Blair is a much better candidate for standing trial for manslaughter I'd have thought. However as Karl Marx is your icon here at LFW perhaps you prefer to be thought of as a communist or a revolutionary socialist and you have just buried your true proclivities within the Labour party for now.
It's true I have no faith in either the Conservatives or the Labour parties but I don't want any anti-democratic communists taking their place. It's time for a realignment of political thinking and for people to have a voting system that allows for something greater than first past the post. What you seem to want is a one party state.
The constant vitriol against Blair from the right over supposed war crimes is an interesting one. If the conservatives had been in power at the time, do you think they would have told the US to get stuffed and refused to take part in the hostilities because they were based on lies? No, me neither. Not really their style is it?
Australia had a right wing government at the time and they were on board just as quickly as the UK and Labour. Singling out Blair over this is a bit ridiculous IMO.
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Tory Leadership Race on 00:01 - Jun 26 with 1992 views
Tory Leadership Race on 23:28 - Jun 25 by SydneyRs
The constant vitriol against Blair from the right over supposed war crimes is an interesting one. If the conservatives had been in power at the time, do you think they would have told the US to get stuffed and refused to take part in the hostilities because they were based on lies? No, me neither. Not really their style is it?
Australia had a right wing government at the time and they were on board just as quickly as the UK and Labour. Singling out Blair over this is a bit ridiculous IMO.
Just saying that Blair could be held on a charge of manslaughter way more easily than Johnson and Hunt but left wingers do like to pontificate about Tories being the only bad guys rather than looking at people on their side of the political divide being bad guys too. Unfortunately, their left wing doctrine dictates that all opposition to them must be evil and a thing to be hated and this leads to ridiculous charges such as the opposition being killers. The left suffer from a belief in moral superiority and it blinds them to their own hypocrisy.
I grant you that Blair is an easy option for a manslaughter indictment but then again, in my lifetime their have only been 4 Labour Prime Ministers against which I can hold such a charge. Seeing as 2 of them, Callaghan and Brown, were more pathetic than malicious I might struggle there. Harold Wilson, well that man holds promise but I really don't want to start researching him so late into the night.
[Post edited 26 Jun 2019 0:03]
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Tory Leadership Race on 11:47 - Jun 26 with 1863 views
'Johnson's slapdash dilettantism can't be defeated by Hunt's ministerial CV. If anything, a record of departmental diligence and attention to detail is offputting because it has a whiff of bureaucracy and Whitehall risk-aversion. It is the halitosis of remain to Brexiteer noses. Hunt's message is all about seriousness. "I'm not going to say it's going to be easy," he tells his audience. But if the Tories were minded to contemplate the complexity of Brexit — and the strategic, legal and economic implications of rupture from the EU — they would have accepted May's deal or abandoned the project by now. They are too deep in denial to ponder the downside.
Hunt doesn't really want to pull at those threads, but nor can he ignore them. His campaign is a nervous fidget around the truth, supported by a beleaguered minority, nostalgic for a Conservative style that was fashionable before 2016. He is the candidate of a bygone era when most Tory MPs thought Johnson was a sinister clown who should never be allowed near Downing Street.
Now even many pro-European Conservatives are resigned to Johnson's victory as the logical culmination of an ethos that treats any rational calibration of Brexit risks as a sign of moral debilitation. For Hunt there is no scrubbing off the stain of remain. Instead Tory Brexiteers need to see intractable problems confronted by the man who told them it would all be easy.'
The was an interesting discussion between Will Davies and Jeremy Gilbert at Gilbert's Culture Power Politics lecture series recently, around the question of what exactly is going on at the moment? (and loosely Davies' book Nervous States). Part of the discussion concerned the thesis that essentially representational democracy is in crisis, and in fact has been since the 30s when large numbers of people were either actively connected to their local Conservative club or were in a union. Since then there has been an increasing disconnect between the identity of the electorate and those they elect. (Gilbert talks about how neoliberalism was always unpopular, but credit-fueled consumption and the sense that There Is No Alternative suppressed active dissent).
Gilbert maintains that Corbynism and the current Tory identity crisis is just a continuation of this crisis of representative democracy, the outcome of which will be the splitting of both Labour and the Tories into two or three smaller parties.
Can't really see a way out for the Tories at the moment, the Boris train is going to take them off the tracks for sure. And ultimately I think the Corbyn project won't survive trying to maintain the coalition of warring tribes within the Labour party for ever. I could see a Corbyn minority government leading on electoral reform, introducing PR, ultimately allowing breakaways to happen.
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Tory Leadership Race on 12:22 - Jun 26 with 1784 views
The was an interesting discussion between Will Davies and Jeremy Gilbert at Gilbert's Culture Power Politics lecture series recently, around the question of what exactly is going on at the moment? (and loosely Davies' book Nervous States). Part of the discussion concerned the thesis that essentially representational democracy is in crisis, and in fact has been since the 30s when large numbers of people were either actively connected to their local Conservative club or were in a union. Since then there has been an increasing disconnect between the identity of the electorate and those they elect. (Gilbert talks about how neoliberalism was always unpopular, but credit-fueled consumption and the sense that There Is No Alternative suppressed active dissent).
Gilbert maintains that Corbynism and the current Tory identity crisis is just a continuation of this crisis of representative democracy, the outcome of which will be the splitting of both Labour and the Tories into two or three smaller parties.
Can't really see a way out for the Tories at the moment, the Boris train is going to take them off the tracks for sure. And ultimately I think the Corbyn project won't survive trying to maintain the coalition of warring tribes within the Labour party for ever. I could see a Corbyn minority government leading on electoral reform, introducing PR, ultimately allowing breakaways to happen.
Tad Tietze argues something similar (about the crisis of representation). His interview on Alpha to Omega is well worth listening to, although I am not sure if I am completely convinced by what he is saying:
Election in Oz by isawqpratwcity18 May 2019 9:23 The polls have just closed in the eastern states, two hours to go in Western Australia.
Also noted for the death on Thursday of the sublime Australian Prime Minister, Bob Hawke.
Air hostess clique
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Tory Leadership Race on 13:24 - Jun 26 with 1702 views
Tory Leadership Race on 12:22 - Jun 26 by TacticalR
Tad Tietze argues something similar (about the crisis of representation). His interview on Alpha to Omega is well worth listening to, although I am not sure if I am completely convinced by what he is saying:
Election in Oz by isawqpratwcity18 May 2019 9:23 The polls have just closed in the eastern states, two hours to go in Western Australia.
Also noted for the death on Thursday of the sublime Australian Prime Minister, Bob Hawke.
Thanks. I dip in and out of A to O but hadn't listened to that one.
UK population rises including migration up 10 per cent. Whilst I am not in favour of Brexit we need sensible controlled immigration. Priority needs to be given to people such as medical professionals. When I commute at certain times in London am often amongst the minority of British people on the train. Workers are needed but we need a sensible debate on immigration without people wanting to limit the numbers of immigrants being labelled as racist.
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Tory Leadership Race on 13:49 - Jun 26 with 1654 views
UK population rises including migration up 10 per cent. Whilst I am not in favour of Brexit we need sensible controlled immigration. Priority needs to be given to people such as medical professionals. When I commute at certain times in London am often amongst the minority of British people on the train. Workers are needed but we need a sensible debate on immigration without people wanting to limit the numbers of immigrants being labelled as racist.
Genuine question....
How do you determine wether someone is British or not without asking them for their passport?
[Post edited 26 Jun 2019 13:51]
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Tory Leadership Race on 14:16 - Jun 26 with 1621 views
There have been some great lectures in the series, although the quality of the audio is frustratingly erratic sometimes!
Thanks. I have just downloaded that Britain’s Nervous Breakdown podcast. I see it's over 2 hours. I am really at the coal face of podcasts, listening from dawn 'til dusk.
Air hostess clique
0
Tory Leadership Race on 15:29 - Jun 26 with 1575 views
The was an interesting discussion between Will Davies and Jeremy Gilbert at Gilbert's Culture Power Politics lecture series recently, around the question of what exactly is going on at the moment? (and loosely Davies' book Nervous States). Part of the discussion concerned the thesis that essentially representational democracy is in crisis, and in fact has been since the 30s when large numbers of people were either actively connected to their local Conservative club or were in a union. Since then there has been an increasing disconnect between the identity of the electorate and those they elect. (Gilbert talks about how neoliberalism was always unpopular, but credit-fueled consumption and the sense that There Is No Alternative suppressed active dissent).
Gilbert maintains that Corbynism and the current Tory identity crisis is just a continuation of this crisis of representative democracy, the outcome of which will be the splitting of both Labour and the Tories into two or three smaller parties.
Can't really see a way out for the Tories at the moment, the Boris train is going to take them off the tracks for sure. And ultimately I think the Corbyn project won't survive trying to maintain the coalition of warring tribes within the Labour party for ever. I could see a Corbyn minority government leading on electoral reform, introducing PR, ultimately allowing breakaways to happen.
Spoke to a career civil servant earlier who said the talk inside the trade is that either Corbyn goes in the next couple of weeks (which he might) or by 2020-21 Swinson ends up being given the mop and bucket and asked to clean up whatever sorry mess the country is in by then.
They're giving Johnson a year in the job.
[Post edited 26 Jun 2019 15:29]
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Tory Leadership Race on 16:40 - Jun 26 with 1528 views
Tory Leadership Race on 14:16 - Jun 26 by TacticalR
Thanks. I have just downloaded that Britain’s Nervous Breakdown podcast. I see it's over 2 hours. I am really at the coal face of podcasts, listening from dawn 'til dusk.
Ha, solidarity comrade. I'm running out of things to do for an excuse to get through another hours worth. May have to buy a dog.
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Tory Leadership Race on 16:43 - Jun 26 with 1524 views
Tory Leadership Race on 15:29 - Jun 26 by DannytheR
Spoke to a career civil servant earlier who said the talk inside the trade is that either Corbyn goes in the next couple of weeks (which he might) or by 2020-21 Swinson ends up being given the mop and bucket and asked to clean up whatever sorry mess the country is in by then.
They're giving Johnson a year in the job.
[Post edited 26 Jun 2019 15:29]
There's just no way Corbyn will walk away, none at all. Despite none of it ever making it on to the airways there are some genuinely transformative plans for models of investment etc. being made and circulated around his and John McD's offices, they're not going to pack it all in now.
And PM Swinson? That's some powerful gear.
1
Tory Leadership Race on 19:03 - Jun 26 with 1425 views
There's just no way Corbyn will walk away, none at all. Despite none of it ever making it on to the airways there are some genuinely transformative plans for models of investment etc. being made and circulated around his and John McD's offices, they're not going to pack it all in now.
And PM Swinson? That's some powerful gear.
Seconded.
All we are being told is to brace ourselves for when the Purdah restrictions come in and Labour policy is put on equal footing with everyone else's.
At the last election Labour made up 20 pts because of it. Now the polling is mostly in Labour's favour Purdah is going to be very important because when we knock on doors people tell us they have no idea what Labour's policy is (thanks MSM) and all the people can talk about is Brexit.
JC has a exit plan I reckon but he'll see through the next GE first even if it's 2022 but i'll be amazed if there isn't one this year.
And yeah, Swinson as PM? lunacy.
[Post edited 26 Jun 2019 19:32]
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Tory Leadership Race on 19:30 - Jun 26 with 1400 views
There's just no way Corbyn will walk away, none at all. Despite none of it ever making it on to the airways there are some genuinely transformative plans for models of investment etc. being made and circulated around his and John McD's offices, they're not going to pack it all in now.
And PM Swinson? That's some powerful gear.
I hear you. But the logic is Corbyn will shortly be forced to make a choice between Big John and Seamus/McCluskey when the internal Brexit contradictions finally collapse on everyone's head. And he may bottle it and go.
The risk is that if he does is that Grace Blakeley and the Novara lot go too, but as things stand it's going to be a wipe out in Scotland, London and every university town in the country.
The Swinson thing is funny I agree. But the logic is that when the country goes kaput under Johnson and they have to call an emergency GE, it will likely play out not too differently from the European elections the other week, with both Labour and Tories in pieces and *anyone* who can put together a coalition of Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid and the Greens suddenly looking weirdly plausible as an alternative to the mad far-right.
Not what I would want personally and all just war games really, but interesting that civi service now talking about once-in-a-liftime transformations around the corner. It's just that nobody knows quite what kind.
[Post edited 26 Jun 2019 19:35]
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Tory Leadership Race on 20:41 - Jun 26 with 1328 views
Tory Leadership Race on 19:33 - Jun 26 by DannytheR
I hear you. But the logic is Corbyn will shortly be forced to make a choice between Big John and Seamus/McCluskey when the internal Brexit contradictions finally collapse on everyone's head. And he may bottle it and go.
The risk is that if he does is that Grace Blakeley and the Novara lot go too, but as things stand it's going to be a wipe out in Scotland, London and every university town in the country.
The Swinson thing is funny I agree. But the logic is that when the country goes kaput under Johnson and they have to call an emergency GE, it will likely play out not too differently from the European elections the other week, with both Labour and Tories in pieces and *anyone* who can put together a coalition of Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid and the Greens suddenly looking weirdly plausible as an alternative to the mad far-right.
Not what I would want personally and all just war games really, but interesting that civi service now talking about once-in-a-liftime transformations around the corner. It's just that nobody knows quite what kind.
[Post edited 26 Jun 2019 19:35]
I'd be amazed if Corbyn and JMcD go separate ways, but it's possible I suppose. Having met and spoken to JMcD very briefly once he left me fairly convinced that he sees this as a once in a generation opportunity for the left in Britain, and that without Corbyn as the unlikely figurehead it's a non-starter. I have friends and colleagues that have written reports for JMcD too, and I'm fairly convinced that he and the leader's office are far more excited by and interested in implementing domestic policy than they are over who gets their way over Brexit.
Something that goes unremarked upon in my view is how much guts Corbyn has shown in the brief time he's been head of the party - coups, endless smears, gas-lighting par excellence etc. I'm told he struggled with it mentally at first, but has found some zen from somewhere and just keeps on going on. So i'd be surprised if he bottled it at this point.
Yeah it is interesting to hear that the civil service are playing out those kind of scenarios. And yeah I've wondered what the outriders and newcomers (myself included in the latter tbh) will do if / when the current leadership hand over - even if it's a Clive Lewis / Pidcock or whoever from the left there will need to be a clear continuity in direction and ambition to retain the new active membership.
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