| Tory Leadership Race 09:57 - May 31 with 58041 views | Dorse |
Not a party political thing or a reason for an LFW punch-up, but I keep having the eerie feeling that eventually every single Tory MP will put themselves forward leaving Teresa May with the casting vote. At which point, she cackles maniacally and slowly points at Jacob Rees Mogg sitting at the back, with the entire parliamentary party turning to stare at him... He is seen to gulp and mutter 'Oh, copulate my happenstance' |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 17:09 - Jun 9 with 2373 views | Sharpy36 |
| Tory Leadership Race on 12:09 - May 31 by Sharpy36 |
Steve baker or Priti patel for me. |
Both came out in support of Boris today, lets hope they have received assurances from him that the 31st of October will finally be independance day. |  |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 21:04 - Jun 9 with 2201 views | Mistication92 |
All logic points to a GE, as baldyoldgit illustrates well. But logic has gone out of the window in the last 4 years, so I'm more inclined to think that it won't happen, simply because it's the last thing the Tories want.
IMO: Johnson wins, gets told to FRO by the EU when he tries to reopen negotiations. Clock ticks down to Oct 31st. Either: a) Johnson delays enough that a VoNC + GE can't take place within the Oct 31st date or b) the VoNC is tabled and the government wins. The UK leaves with no deal. (The FTPA stipulates a minimum timetable for these things, which would come up against the summer recess and the party conference season)
Why is everyone so sure that even 5 Tory MPs will vote down their own government? I just can't see it.
I'm so glad I'm leaving for Canada in November, this country's politics is too depressing. *unt saying he'd like to lower the abortion law, McVey saying there's nothing wrong with kids not being taught about tolerance. Eurgh. [Post edited 10 Jun 2019 0:05]
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| Tory Leadership Race on 22:07 - Jun 9 with 2145 views | TacticalR |
@baldyoldgit 'You could promise no border in the Irish Sea.'
It's a crowded market and people are promising all sorts of things. Raab's promising to shut down parliament and McVey is promising not to allow any remainers in the cabinet.
Perhaps someone will promise to get rid of the Irish Sea completely. It's simply a matter of political will. |  |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 22:18 - Jun 9 with 2123 views | colinallcars |
| Tory Leadership Race on 22:07 - Jun 9 by TacticalR |
@baldyoldgit 'You could promise no border in the Irish Sea.'
It's a crowded market and people are promising all sorts of things. Raab's promising to shut down parliament and McVey is promising not to allow any remainers in the cabinet.
Perhaps someone will promise to get rid of the Irish Sea completely. It's simply a matter of political will. |
Whenever a PM steps down there should be a General Election. It's not right that a small number of Tory party members should choose the next PM. There is apparently a petition on the parliamentary website calling for this process to be abolished but I can't seem to find it. |  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 22:27 - Jun 9 with 2114 views | BostonR |
| Tory Leadership Race on 11:41 - Jun 8 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Only Labour want a GE and then it would most likely end up another hung parliament. |
Not sure that will be the case. The Peterborough by-election is exactly what Labour want. The Tory vote deserts to Farage but that is enough for Labour to win the marginals. The Labour vote always holds up - they are loyal - and it would probably put Corbyn in No10.
The Tories would be destroyed for a generation. |  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 23:34 - Jun 9 with 2046 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Tory Leadership Race on 22:27 - Jun 9 by BostonR |
Not sure that will be the case. The Peterborough by-election is exactly what Labour want. The Tory vote deserts to Farage but that is enough for Labour to win the marginals. The Labour vote always holds up - they are loyal - and it would probably put Corbyn in No10.
The Tories would be destroyed for a generation. |
I'm not sure it's just about simple loyalty with the labour vote. I'm fairly unpolitical personally but always end up voting labour. I can relate to them more than any other party. Everyone always goes on about Diane Abbott and what a liability she is. I went to school with lots of girls similar to her. I understand people like her more than I do the others. |  |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 06:38 - Jun 10 with 1965 views | distortR |
I see Johnson is pledging tax cuts for the rich.
Yeah, that works.
Anyone who offers tax cuts for the rich and austerity for the rest of us should be booted into the sea, if for no other reason that it makes no economic sense..........................for the rest of us | | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 07:27 - Jun 10 with 1915 views | BostonR |
| Tory Leadership Race on 23:34 - Jun 9 by CliveWilsonSaid |
I'm not sure it's just about simple loyalty with the labour vote. I'm fairly unpolitical personally but always end up voting labour. I can relate to them more than any other party. Everyone always goes on about Diane Abbott and what a liability she is. I went to school with lots of girls similar to her. I understand people like her more than I do the others. |
Your post is spot-on. What you describe is the base of the Labour vote. Corbyn just needs to watch from the sidelines as the Tories implode. Farage and his gang are one-trick pony’s and are being rumbled by the public. Interesting times ahead.
As someone who lives and works in the US we really need to halt the hard-right. The spread of hate and intolerance is frightening and must be stopped. As a Londoner I despair at the videos showing two gay women being attacked on a bus and then a mob of female bullies assaulting a young girl in Essex! | | | |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 08:12 - Jun 10 with 1862 views | paesanu |
Gove saying he was 'lucky' not to go to prison.
He just didn't have the balls to say 'rich' did he. |  |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 08:15 - Jun 10 with 1856 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Tory Leadership Race on 07:27 - Jun 10 by BostonR |
Your post is spot-on. What you describe is the base of the Labour vote. Corbyn just needs to watch from the sidelines as the Tories implode. Farage and his gang are one-trick pony’s and are being rumbled by the public. Interesting times ahead.
As someone who lives and works in the US we really need to halt the hard-right. The spread of hate and intolerance is frightening and must be stopped. As a Londoner I despair at the videos showing two gay women being attacked on a bus and then a mob of female bullies assaulting a young girl in Essex! |
Labour Party policies are also incredibly popular, here and abroad.
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| Tory Leadership Race on 08:43 - Jun 10 with 1832 views | FDC |
| Tory Leadership Race on 06:38 - Jun 10 by distortR |
I see Johnson is pledging tax cuts for the rich.
Yeah, that works.
Anyone who offers tax cuts for the rich and austerity for the rest of us should be booted into the sea, if for no other reason that it makes no economic sense..........................for the rest of us |
The leadership contest is really highlighting the absolute intellectual bankruptcy of British conservatism. Honestly think they're done for. |  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 09:32 - Jun 10 with 1770 views | ingeminate |
| Tory Leadership Race on 08:43 - Jun 10 by FDC |
The leadership contest is really highlighting the absolute intellectual bankruptcy of British conservatism. Honestly think they're done for. |
This Tory lineup reminds me of the Terry, Lampard, Drogba Chelsea team. Hated them all, but for slightly different reasons.
Wife is a nurse and I can't tell you how despised Hunt is by her and the nurses she knocks about with.
He was a combo of clueless (e.g tweeting out a picture of staffing scheduler that showed virtually every ward on emergency understaffing measures with a cheery, great to see hospital x on top of things) and deceit, deliberately misrepresenting time and again the 7 days working week/mortality figures.
He's also got one of those faces that would drive a nun to murder. It's like there was a worldwide competition to design the smuggest face possible and he won. Sauntering round with his NHS badge like he gives a shit.
He's probably not even the worst! Vomit inducing Hancock, charlatan Johnson, loves a gagging clause Raab, boot em out Khan, the list goes on.
Following that Grange Hill logic from less enlightened times - "he might be a xxxx, but hes our xxxx" maybe just give it to Gove. |  |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 09:56 - Jun 10 with 1738 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Tory Leadership Race on 06:38 - Jun 10 by distortR |
I see Johnson is pledging tax cuts for the rich.
Yeah, that works.
Anyone who offers tax cuts for the rich and austerity for the rest of us should be booted into the sea, if for no other reason that it makes no economic sense..........................for the rest of us |
He knows where his support is Middle England Middle-class rich Tory members Average age 57, almost guarantees him winning the leadership. |  |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 10:25 - Jun 10 with 1710 views | stevec |
| Tory Leadership Race on 08:15 - Jun 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Labour Party policies are also incredibly popular, here and abroad.
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Those policies are most likely to be popular the world over, the problem for us in the UK is somehow or other he's going to have to find a way to pay for them and from previous experience with Labour we usually end up bankrupt.
I'm all for free University tuition, but increasing the tax rate on the top 5% of earners won't even touch the cost of that, let alone the rest of his policies.
Rent prices capped at rate of inflation, good idea some years back, but you'll find these days rent prices on the open market are falling for new renters or not moving for existing renters. There's also the law of unintended consequences which usually rip through Labour policy, in this case, whilst Landlords prices particularly in London are outrageously high if you actually work out their rate of return on money invested, it's quite often in the 2 - 4% range, not a bad return admittedly, but with house prices stagnating at last, that kind of return will result in Landlords selling up and result in even less homes available for rent. In any case, the first sniff of a Labour government and rents will get massively hiked prior to policy change, wiping out any benefit this otherwise might have had. I know you'll tell me you'll build hundreds of thousands of council homes but you and I know realistically that won't happen, it never does.
The scandal of £9000 tuition fees (higher I believe now) needs tackling, but you need to remember that a large part of your support comes from those who have suffered this indignity. That's about 700,000 students a year finishing University and then having to find a way to pay that back (which most never will). At my estimate, a very rough one, we've probably got 7 million ex students, probably more, paying 9% tax more per year than the rest of us on the part of pay that tends to fund the luxury part of a persons lifestyle. Again, the law of unintended consequences is likely to kick in.
So if you were paying 9% more tax than everyone else and someone comes along (Boris in this case) and says we'll move the 40% tax rate on earnings above £50k to £80k, who is that going to benefit most in the long term? The students who have been burdened with an unfair tax in the first place! Whilst the Labour party will moan about the historical unfairness of student loans, this 7 million plus students will be thinking actually we've been clobbered once, sadly there's nothing we can do about that now, so lets at least take advantage of a potential £30k of earnings per year being taxed at 20% instead of 40%. That potentially reduces the burden on their debt by £6000 per year.
Some may argue that a lot will never reach the 'burden' of 40% tax on £50k let alone £80k but the particular positive of a University education is that virtually all students come out with the notion they will want to, in fact have to, become high earners if only to rid the debt burden that's been lumped on them.
I imagine it won't take long for educated young Labour supporters to do the maths. |  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 10:26 - Jun 10 with 1709 views | derbyhoop |
You may well be right. But I don't think the people who voted Leave, because of austerity or immigration, will welcome handouts to the wealthier. And that wont be forgotten come the next GE. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 10:44 - Jun 10 with 1661 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Victoria Derbyshire
 she got that right
[Post edited 10 Jun 2019 10:45]
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| Tory Leadership Race on 10:57 - Jun 10 with 1628 views | FDC |
| Tory Leadership Race on 08:12 - Jun 10 by paesanu |
Gove saying he was 'lucky' not to go to prison.
He just didn't have the balls to say 'rich' did he. |
That's it. I couldn't give a shit that they're all buried up to their tits in coke per se, it's the rank hypocrisy of it that gets me. Gove's blanket ban on teachers found to have taken drugs, the futile war on drugs in general etc etc.
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| Tory Leadership Race on 11:08 - Jun 10 with 1608 views | FDC |
| Tory Leadership Race on 09:56 - Jun 10 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
He knows where his support is Middle England Middle-class rich Tory members Average age 57, almost guarantees him winning the leadership. |
£50k is well into the top 10% of earners | | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 12:02 - Jun 10 with 1530 views | johncharles |
| Tory Leadership Race on 11:08 - Jun 10 by FDC |
£50k is well into the top 10% of earners |
Tory leadership Race ? Pin the Tail on the Donkey more like. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 13:53 - Jun 10 with 1368 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Tory Leadership Race on 10:25 - Jun 10 by stevec |
Those policies are most likely to be popular the world over, the problem for us in the UK is somehow or other he's going to have to find a way to pay for them and from previous experience with Labour we usually end up bankrupt.
I'm all for free University tuition, but increasing the tax rate on the top 5% of earners won't even touch the cost of that, let alone the rest of his policies.
Rent prices capped at rate of inflation, good idea some years back, but you'll find these days rent prices on the open market are falling for new renters or not moving for existing renters. There's also the law of unintended consequences which usually rip through Labour policy, in this case, whilst Landlords prices particularly in London are outrageously high if you actually work out their rate of return on money invested, it's quite often in the 2 - 4% range, not a bad return admittedly, but with house prices stagnating at last, that kind of return will result in Landlords selling up and result in even less homes available for rent. In any case, the first sniff of a Labour government and rents will get massively hiked prior to policy change, wiping out any benefit this otherwise might have had. I know you'll tell me you'll build hundreds of thousands of council homes but you and I know realistically that won't happen, it never does.
The scandal of £9000 tuition fees (higher I believe now) needs tackling, but you need to remember that a large part of your support comes from those who have suffered this indignity. That's about 700,000 students a year finishing University and then having to find a way to pay that back (which most never will). At my estimate, a very rough one, we've probably got 7 million ex students, probably more, paying 9% tax more per year than the rest of us on the part of pay that tends to fund the luxury part of a persons lifestyle. Again, the law of unintended consequences is likely to kick in.
So if you were paying 9% more tax than everyone else and someone comes along (Boris in this case) and says we'll move the 40% tax rate on earnings above £50k to £80k, who is that going to benefit most in the long term? The students who have been burdened with an unfair tax in the first place! Whilst the Labour party will moan about the historical unfairness of student loans, this 7 million plus students will be thinking actually we've been clobbered once, sadly there's nothing we can do about that now, so lets at least take advantage of a potential £30k of earnings per year being taxed at 20% instead of 40%. That potentially reduces the burden on their debt by £6000 per year.
Some may argue that a lot will never reach the 'burden' of 40% tax on £50k let alone £80k but the particular positive of a University education is that virtually all students come out with the notion they will want to, in fact have to, become high earners if only to rid the debt burden that's been lumped on them.
I imagine it won't take long for educated young Labour supporters to do the maths. |
The Labour party didn't fck the economy , the financial crash did. It did it to Conservative governments too, including the US's.
Also, this government of nine years has not reduced it at all.
Guess who the last party in government was that produced a surplus?
Also, the nationalisation of industries that are profitable will be another income stream, and the crackdown of tax havens, most of which are UK territories or dependancies. It's difficult with this government to clamp down on them because a lot of the ministers have intertwined relationships with the biggest offenders
 [Post edited 10 Jun 2019 13:54]
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| Tory Leadership Race on 14:03 - Jun 10 with 1353 views | QPR_Jim |
| Tory Leadership Race on 10:25 - Jun 10 by stevec |
Those policies are most likely to be popular the world over, the problem for us in the UK is somehow or other he's going to have to find a way to pay for them and from previous experience with Labour we usually end up bankrupt.
I'm all for free University tuition, but increasing the tax rate on the top 5% of earners won't even touch the cost of that, let alone the rest of his policies.
Rent prices capped at rate of inflation, good idea some years back, but you'll find these days rent prices on the open market are falling for new renters or not moving for existing renters. There's also the law of unintended consequences which usually rip through Labour policy, in this case, whilst Landlords prices particularly in London are outrageously high if you actually work out their rate of return on money invested, it's quite often in the 2 - 4% range, not a bad return admittedly, but with house prices stagnating at last, that kind of return will result in Landlords selling up and result in even less homes available for rent. In any case, the first sniff of a Labour government and rents will get massively hiked prior to policy change, wiping out any benefit this otherwise might have had. I know you'll tell me you'll build hundreds of thousands of council homes but you and I know realistically that won't happen, it never does.
The scandal of £9000 tuition fees (higher I believe now) needs tackling, but you need to remember that a large part of your support comes from those who have suffered this indignity. That's about 700,000 students a year finishing University and then having to find a way to pay that back (which most never will). At my estimate, a very rough one, we've probably got 7 million ex students, probably more, paying 9% tax more per year than the rest of us on the part of pay that tends to fund the luxury part of a persons lifestyle. Again, the law of unintended consequences is likely to kick in.
So if you were paying 9% more tax than everyone else and someone comes along (Boris in this case) and says we'll move the 40% tax rate on earnings above £50k to £80k, who is that going to benefit most in the long term? The students who have been burdened with an unfair tax in the first place! Whilst the Labour party will moan about the historical unfairness of student loans, this 7 million plus students will be thinking actually we've been clobbered once, sadly there's nothing we can do about that now, so lets at least take advantage of a potential £30k of earnings per year being taxed at 20% instead of 40%. That potentially reduces the burden on their debt by £6000 per year.
Some may argue that a lot will never reach the 'burden' of 40% tax on £50k let alone £80k but the particular positive of a University education is that virtually all students come out with the notion they will want to, in fact have to, become high earners if only to rid the debt burden that's been lumped on them.
I imagine it won't take long for educated young Labour supporters to do the maths. |
To be fair the current government policy is causing landlords to sell up and reducing the number of houses available to rent anyway. Short term it's freeing up houses to first time buyers but ultimately this is a supply and demand issue and we need to build more homes and it's something local councils need to be encouraged to invest in.
That brings me back to your initial point about Labour and spending. Yes things cost money but if it's invested wisely then it can be of more benefit in the long term.
Students have to repay their student loan out of their earnings, so as you say it's an extra tax while they are repaying. Free tuition was sneered at as a bribe to students but it is an investment in people and could be a great way of encouraging people into careers where we are short of skilled workers or to improve our pool of talent in sectors where we are trying to encourage investment from abroad. I've been to university and would much rather others were given the opportunity to do the same than more tax breaks being handed out. |  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 14:56 - Jun 10 with 1296 views | baldyoldgit |
| Tory Leadership Race on 21:04 - Jun 9 by Mistication92 |
All logic points to a GE, as baldyoldgit illustrates well. But logic has gone out of the window in the last 4 years, so I'm more inclined to think that it won't happen, simply because it's the last thing the Tories want.
IMO: Johnson wins, gets told to FRO by the EU when he tries to reopen negotiations. Clock ticks down to Oct 31st. Either: a) Johnson delays enough that a VoNC + GE can't take place within the Oct 31st date or b) the VoNC is tabled and the government wins. The UK leaves with no deal. (The FTPA stipulates a minimum timetable for these things, which would come up against the summer recess and the party conference season)
Why is everyone so sure that even 5 Tory MPs will vote down their own government? I just can't see it.
I'm so glad I'm leaving for Canada in November, this country's politics is too depressing. *unt saying he'd like to lower the abortion law, McVey saying there's nothing wrong with kids not being taught about tolerance. Eurgh. [Post edited 10 Jun 2019 0:05]
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That's why their manifesto will be so important. when the new PM gets hoiked out with a vote of no confidence and they call a general election, everyone will have to decide on their brexit stance and write it down.
Everyone knows what Libs and UKIP2.0s will be. If Labour do some fudge/dither/bollocks options the Tories will see an opportunity. I can see them offering a new referendum if they're elected. Labour and Libs and SNP can't complain about it or oppose it. Ref can go either way but it's no longer the Tory's fault. Checkmate. [Post edited 10 Jun 2019 15:02]
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| Tory Leadership Race on 14:57 - Jun 10 with 1295 views | TacticalR |
Gove's constituents know what's going on...
'Gove has been MP for Surrey Heath since 2005, but he is not held in high regard by all in this close-knit community. Many believe his cocaine confession was designed to increase his profile, but feel the damage to his reputation locally and his ambitions to be the next party leader will be minimal.
One resident, who wished to remain anonymous, said: "He is trying to build his profile, it's classic, to show he's got something in his cupboard. Leak a bit of stuff that he can get away with.
"I don't think it will affect him. I have been here for five years, Gove has been pro-planning then pro-green. It was a PR stunt, he has not been caught off guard."
The man's wife said: "I think everyone has got low opinions about politicians considering all the other stuff that has been going on. Boris [Johnson] was accused of lying to the public. Gove is not well thought of, he was booed at the Chobham festival."
Among young people, the perception is that the former justice secretary was trying to appear more relatable and "gritty" in a saturated Tory leadership race.
Catherine Jones said: "With what goes on in the City, a lot of people can relate to him but not me.
"It won't affect him among people who support him. With Boris being Boris, Dominic Raab being an anti-feminist, perhaps he thought there needs to be a bit of scandal."'
Michael Gove admits to taking cocaine on 'several occasions'
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/08/a-rich-thread-of-hypocrisy-gove- | |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 15:14 - Jun 10 with 1265 views | Sharpy36 |
| Tory Leadership Race on 07:27 - Jun 10 by BostonR |
Your post is spot-on. What you describe is the base of the Labour vote. Corbyn just needs to watch from the sidelines as the Tories implode. Farage and his gang are one-trick pony’s and are being rumbled by the public. Interesting times ahead.
As someone who lives and works in the US we really need to halt the hard-right. The spread of hate and intolerance is frightening and must be stopped. As a Londoner I despair at the videos showing two gay women being attacked on a bus and then a mob of female bullies assaulting a young girl in Essex! |
Although i think this better suited for the other thread. Could i ask you why you feel the Brexit party is being rumbled ? | |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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