| Ashes thread 17:11 - Jul 15 with 91123 views | johnhoop |
Now that the World Cup’s done and dusted we can turn our attention to the next major event.
For me the most interesting questions about team selection are;
1) Do we open with Jason Roy? For me it’s a no brainer. I know all the arguments against- he doesn’t even open for Surrey, he struggles against the moving ball etc- but I feel that he’s in such good form and the alternatives are so mediocre that it would be silly not to. If he does come off he could give us control of the game in the first couple of hours. Him and Rory Burns for me.
2) Now that Jofra Archer has to have a place in the side, who are the other two quick bowlers going to be. If fit I guess Anderson has to play and I would give the third spot to Woakes but this means no place for Stuart Broad and the 90 mph+ Mark Wood.
3) Which spinner to go with - Ali or Rashid? Ali’s batting form seems to have dipped but it’s still not an easy decision to make.
Any thoughts? |  | | |  |
| Ashes thread on 16:40 - Aug 23 with 1873 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Ashes thread on 14:08 - Aug 23 by Nov77 |
Lowest score against oz since 1948, take a bow boys! |
That 1948 team were absolute shite. Stunk the world of cricket up for years. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Ashes thread on 16:40 - Aug 23 with 1873 views | Snipper |
That shot from Stokes was one of the worst shots I’ve ever seen played. Absolutely bloody ridiculous.
As for Root, he’s the worst captain I can remember. For his sake, he needs it taken away. My bloody cat would be a better captain.
The 2005 team would thrash this Australian team 5-0. Our lot aren’t fit to wear the shirt.
A bloody shambles. [Post edited 23 Aug 2019 16:41]
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| Ashes thread on 17:37 - Aug 23 with 1801 views | ted_hendrix |
Getting a right old battering in our own back yard. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Ashes thread on 17:55 - Aug 23 with 1773 views | toboboly |
Well done England, you’ve knackered one of your most potent weapons.
Baylis should be sacked tonight and Root should be relieved of Captaincy after September |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Ashes thread on 17:56 - Aug 23 with 1768 views | isawqpratwcity |
It's Joe Denly I feel sorry for.
They put up on screen that his 12 is the lowest 'top-score' in history. The poor bastard is wondering how the hell his name gets super-glued onto a god-awful statistic like that when the other ten in the side all did worse than him!
Edit: That was quoted from Channel 9's TV coverage last night; this morning the ABC website is saying that Denly is the "lowest English top-scorer", nowhere near as dubious an honour. [Post edited 24 Aug 2019 1:12]
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| Ashes thread on 18:29 - Aug 23 with 1738 views | ted_hendrix |
| Ashes thread on 14:52 - Aug 23 by nix |
That’s what I thought. They keep banging on about brilliant bowling from the Aussies but unless they led them into the poor shots with fantastic deliveries, it doesn’t look like it. Just from the wickets themselves it largely looked like terrible shots from our batsmen. |
Michael Vaughan;
"If you did a DVD of Australia's bowling this morning it would be a masterclass of how to bowl at Headingley. Full, on off stump. Working the batsmen over.
If you did a DVD of how not to bat at Headingley, just watch England this morning. The players all know what Headingley is like, when the ball's fresh you put the drive away. Don't drive.
They went chasing the drive early. You have to hang in there, do the hard yards and it will get easier for you.
They weren't prepared to do that. | |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Ashes thread on 18:49 - Aug 23 with 1715 views | toboboly |
| Ashes thread on 14:22 - Aug 22 by toboboly |
...cheating Khawaja... |
...cheating Paine... | |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Ashes thread on 19:05 - Aug 23 with 1688 views | johnhoop |
| Ashes thread on 18:29 - Aug 23 by ted_hendrix |
Michael Vaughan;
"If you did a DVD of Australia's bowling this morning it would be a masterclass of how to bowl at Headingley. Full, on off stump. Working the batsmen over.
If you did a DVD of how not to bat at Headingley, just watch England this morning. The players all know what Headingley is like, when the ball's fresh you put the drive away. Don't drive.
They went chasing the drive early. You have to hang in there, do the hard yards and it will get easier for you.
They weren't prepared to do that. |
I think a lot of it comes down to this “positive mindset” that’s driven by Bayliss and Root and that they all seem obsessed with. In practice It appears to mean they try to score runs off virtually every ball and you just can’t get away with that for long in test cricket, especially against a bowling attack as accurate as Australia’s.
They could do a lot worse than model their approach on that of Labuschagne, who appears to have the perfect technique and mindset for the Test Match game | | | |
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| Ashes thread on 19:45 - Aug 23 with 1625 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Ashes thread on 17:55 - Aug 23 by toboboly |
Well done England, you’ve knackered one of your most potent weapons.
Baylis should be sacked tonight and Root should be relieved of Captaincy after September |
Not really a lot of point sacking Bayliss when he's given his notice, is there?
Root on the other hand should never have been made captain and I'd have the captaincy off him at the end of this test. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 19:45 - Aug 23 with 1625 views | stowmarketrange |
| Ashes thread on 19:05 - Aug 23 by johnhoop |
I think a lot of it comes down to this “positive mindset” that’s driven by Bayliss and Root and that they all seem obsessed with. In practice It appears to mean they try to score runs off virtually every ball and you just can’t get away with that for long in test cricket, especially against a bowling attack as accurate as Australia’s.
They could do a lot worse than model their approach on that of Labuschagne, who appears to have the perfect technique and mindset for the Test Match game |
It might the fact that he’s been playing county cricket all summer,so he has been used to building an innings rather than our bash it all over the place batting line up. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 20:15 - Aug 23 with 1590 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Ashes thread on 19:45 - Aug 23 by stowmarketrange |
It might the fact that he’s been playing county cricket all summer,so he has been used to building an innings rather than our bash it all over the place batting line up. |
I'm incredibly impressed with the temperament of the bloke, too, but I'm inclined to say that may more reflect a profound internal resilience than anything else.
I am far from anything that could be described as 'orthodox Christian' but I have to say that this quote suggests a strong spirituality that grounds him:
"Marnus is a committed Christian and was brought up in a Christian household; however, he committed to his faith aged 17. On his faith, Marnus says, “Sport is a fickle game and injuries play a big part. In the big scheme of things, what you’re worth, what you put your value in, isn’t out there on the pitch; it’s internal and in Christ... cricket is always going to be up and down and if you have [Jesus Christ as] a constant in your life, it makes life a lot easier".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marnus_Labuschagne [Post edited 23 Aug 2019 20:16]
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| Ashes thread on 21:23 - Aug 23 with 1525 views | toboboly |
| Ashes thread on 19:45 - Aug 23 by CiderwithRsie |
Not really a lot of point sacking Bayliss when he's given his notice, is there?
Root on the other hand should never have been made captain and I'd have the captaincy off him at the end of this test. |
It would send a message | |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Ashes thread on 21:25 - Aug 23 with 1522 views | Hooparoo |
| Ashes thread on 20:15 - Aug 23 by isawqpratwcity |
I'm incredibly impressed with the temperament of the bloke, too, but I'm inclined to say that may more reflect a profound internal resilience than anything else.
I am far from anything that could be described as 'orthodox Christian' but I have to say that this quote suggests a strong spirituality that grounds him:
"Marnus is a committed Christian and was brought up in a Christian household; however, he committed to his faith aged 17. On his faith, Marnus says, “Sport is a fickle game and injuries play a big part. In the big scheme of things, what you’re worth, what you put your value in, isn’t out there on the pitch; it’s internal and in Christ... cricket is always going to be up and down and if you have [Jesus Christ as] a constant in your life, it makes life a lot easier".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marnus_Labuschagne [Post edited 23 Aug 2019 20:16]
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Amen |  |
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| Ashes thread on 22:53 - Aug 23 with 1422 views | LythamR |
| Ashes thread on 21:25 - Aug 23 by Hooparoo |
Amen |
Whats Chris Tavare doing these days |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 23:08 - Aug 23 with 1399 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Ashes thread on 21:23 - Aug 23 by toboboly |
It would send a message |
I get where you're coming from, but the bloke was hired after we'd been put out of the World Cup by Bangladesh (and only managed to beat Scotland and Afghanistan in the whole contest) with the job of winning the thing. Which he did, first time of asking, the only England team to ever do it, when no other has even come close this century.
I understand why you're livid, so am I, but I think sacking him deliberately a few weeks before he's due to retire when he did what was asked of him would actually be a terrible message to send out when we're trying to find the next guy. It'd also send the Aussies the message that we're rattled and now have no-one in charge for the rest of the Ashes.
I hope Giles will pick separate coaches for the Test and ODI sides and start to re-balance back to test cricket a bit. Hopefully the Test Championship will help but FWIW I think it was right to prioritise the WC over a series between the 4th and 5th best Test sides. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 23:20 - Aug 23 with 1391 views | thame_hoops |
| Ashes thread on 18:49 - Aug 23 by toboboly |
...cheating Paine... |
Was saying to the old man at lords lords night watching Middlesex, is Tim Paine one of the worst or luckiest captains in tests lol |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 00:06 - Aug 24 with 1369 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Ashes thread on 14:15 - Aug 23 by CamberleyR |
This is what happens when you have a test side that doesn't play a lot of first class four day games in a run up to a test series. On one of the Ashes Debate programmes during the last test they compared the current top 6 and their minutes in the middle and balls faced in first class cricket with the 2005 team prior to the start of the Ashes series.
All of the 2005 team had significant time in the middle and balls faced. A couple of the current team had zero minutes and balls (from memory Buttler and Roy) and Bairstow had only faced something like 23 balls.
Until the ridiculous scheduling of the county championship is changed where the fixtures are bookended at the start and end of a season and nothing inbetween, this situation is unlikely to change. |
This. Absolutely this. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 00:14 - Aug 24 with 1362 views | CiderwithRsie |
This, by Andy Bull in the Guardian, is genius:
There used to be thousands of lamplighters in London; these days there are just five left. British Gas keeps them on the payroll to work the stretch of Kensington Palace Gardens where English Heritage refused to install electric street lights. So they just about outnumber the surviving members of another of England’s dead professions, Test batsman, | | | |
| Ashes thread on 07:01 - Aug 24 with 1288 views | johnhoop |
It’s a shame because if they had tried the experiment of playing the one-day stars like Roy and to a lesser extent Buttler ( because he did succeed in the tests against India last summer) , on the faster harder wickets of a Australia, where there’s very little lateral movement ( unless sandpaper assisted) it might well have come off and been a game changer. But on a wicket like Headingley risky shots have to be cut out almost completely if you are going to stay in for long.
Here’s a thought. If the second innings is as spectacular a capitulation as the first we could collect the bails at the end, burn them and put the ashes in a little pot. Perhaps we could call it an urn? | | | |
| Ashes thread on 08:07 - Aug 24 with 1244 views | jonno |
| Ashes thread on 13:02 - Aug 23 by johnhoop |
I guess the reason for it is pretty obvious really. The constant emphasis on the crash bang wallop of 20/20 and other limited overs cricket means we’re simply not producing Test Match quality batsmen any more. And with the ludicrous “hundred” starting next year, it’s hard to see how it can get any better. |
Exactly right. As most will know on this thread, England's pretty much abysmal performances in this test series have come as no surprise to me. I predicted a 0-3 defeat in the series and have no reason to think any differently. I believe in the end it is down to money. These players can make a lot more money slogging away in the IPL so test cricket is very much lower down on their priorities. As a consequence none of the batters have the technique to deal with the moving ball. Even the bowling attack, Archer's pace aside, looks pretty toothless when they don't have the right conditions to assist them, and even when they do they still quite often bowl poorly - witness the Aussie first innings in this game when very poor bowling allowed them 100 more runs than they should have had in their first innings. Test cricket is very much a game of attrition where you wear the opposing bowlers down by leaving anything not hitting the stumps until they tire or start bowling deliveries you can score from without risk. Our batters are simply not used to playing that way and so have not developed the technique to do so. To be fair, Smith and to an extent Labuschagne aside, the Aussie batsmen aren't a lot better but they don't need to be to beat England I'm afraid. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 09:58 - Aug 24 with 1204 views | thame_hoops |
| Ashes thread on 08:07 - Aug 24 by jonno |
Exactly right. As most will know on this thread, England's pretty much abysmal performances in this test series have come as no surprise to me. I predicted a 0-3 defeat in the series and have no reason to think any differently. I believe in the end it is down to money. These players can make a lot more money slogging away in the IPL so test cricket is very much lower down on their priorities. As a consequence none of the batters have the technique to deal with the moving ball. Even the bowling attack, Archer's pace aside, looks pretty toothless when they don't have the right conditions to assist them, and even when they do they still quite often bowl poorly - witness the Aussie first innings in this game when very poor bowling allowed them 100 more runs than they should have had in their first innings. Test cricket is very much a game of attrition where you wear the opposing bowlers down by leaving anything not hitting the stumps until they tire or start bowling deliveries you can score from without risk. Our batters are simply not used to playing that way and so have not developed the technique to do so. To be fair, Smith and to an extent Labuschagne aside, the Aussie batsmen aren't a lot better but they don't need to be to beat England I'm afraid. |
Fine margains though. First two games were close (ish) and England tend to have a game where they absolutely capitulate. That said, this current England batting side don’t inspire me with confidence for the next two games once they are 2-0. Man for man with the exception of Smith there isn’t a lot of difference between the teams. Even Warner’s stats are not much better than Roy’s | | | |
| Ashes thread on 10:52 - Aug 24 with 1166 views | Nov77 |
Heard Michael Vaughan say that we have to replace Baylis with two specialist coaches, one for the white and one for the red ball game as they are so different in their requirements. We’re just not producing test batsmen anymore, kids are only being taught all the t20 shots.
Maybe Vaughan should put himself forward as test coach, he talks a lot of sense. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 11:09 - Aug 24 with 1152 views | ozexile |
| Ashes thread on 10:52 - Aug 24 by Nov77 |
Heard Michael Vaughan say that we have to replace Baylis with two specialist coaches, one for the white and one for the red ball game as they are so different in their requirements. We’re just not producing test batsmen anymore, kids are only being taught all the t20 shots.
Maybe Vaughan should put himself forward as test coach, he talks a lot of sense. |
Always liked Vaughan. Very shrewd reader of the game. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 11:50 - Aug 24 with 1135 views | johnhoop |
Switched it on this morning before heading to Rangers out of a kind of sick fascination and England keep on thinking up new ways to f-ck up. Broad produces a peach to get rid of the immovable Labuschagne ( only immovable in this innings because we’ve given him about five lives) and Bairstow dives across to take the ball out of Root’s hands and spill it on the floor. Get Foakes in FFS. He can hardly score any less runs and he’ll take the catches. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 12:28 - Aug 24 with 1115 views | Clive_Anderson |
359 to win
I'll be pleased if they last the day to be honest. Just a half decent batting performance. | | | |
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