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So, it looks like Boris Johnson will be named as next PM tomorrow. This country has hit rock bottom. If you think Theresa May was the worst, then think again.
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A day that will live in infamy on 15:30 - Jul 23 with 1408 views
A day that will live in infamy on 15:14 - Jul 23 by Ned_Kennedys
what a load of rubbish. Democracy restored if YOU get the result you want?
unfortunately thats pretty much what has happened to this country, we have gone from a population primarily of the middle ground to a population with a close to 50/50 split of diametrically opposed views on an issue now seen as of primary importance and to quote Metallica "nothing else matters"
Very sad
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A day that will live in infamy on 15:31 - Jul 23 with 1409 views
A day that will live in infamy on 14:46 - Jul 23 by baldyoldgit
really? The two things I've seen him on, this clip and the one on the BBC panel show he's been absolutely spot on about brexit and then labour and brexit. Not arsed if it upsets you but he's describing me and loads of people I know who traditionally vote labour perfectly. excited when he came to be leader about the stuff he wanted to try and do but his lexit fudge has sent me packing. I voted Labour in every election since I turned 18 but ended up not voting at all in the last local elections. Unless Labour manifesto explicitly states there will be another ref or he'll revoke A50 I won't vote Labour again. I suspect I won't be alone.
In that clip Behr is saying that John McDonnell and 'Corbynites' -- by which we have to assume he mains Labour activists who support Corbyn -- are now doing a cost v benefit calculation to determine whether it's time to give Corbyn the boot. That is untrue. And I'm not sure how he would claim to know this if it were, since he has no connection to either, and is hardly an investigative journalist. We'll have to disagree over Behr's analysis of Brexit and Labour.
I obviously wouldn't dispute there are people who feel very strongly about Brexit on either side who have the hump over Labour having tried to bridge the gap between them with a soft Brexit. But I would contend that actually the majority of the country (and certainly the majority of Labour supporters) would have been satisfied with a soft Brexit and moving on, but I guess we'll never know. I think your wish will be met and Labour will now have to adopt a remain position -- which will ultimately be damaging to their electoral chances I think, making a hard Brexit supporting Tory government more likely.
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A day that will live in infamy on 15:32 - Jul 23 with 1408 views
A day that will live in infamy on 14:46 - Jul 23 by baldyoldgit
really? The two things I've seen him on, this clip and the one on the BBC panel show he's been absolutely spot on about brexit and then labour and brexit. Not arsed if it upsets you but he's describing me and loads of people I know who traditionally vote labour perfectly. excited when he came to be leader about the stuff he wanted to try and do but his lexit fudge has sent me packing. I voted Labour in every election since I turned 18 but ended up not voting at all in the last local elections. Unless Labour manifesto explicitly states there will be another ref or he'll revoke A50 I won't vote Labour again. I suspect I won't be alone.
I was a labour member for 3 years until they decided to disregard my views on Brexit.Now I won’t vote for them for the opposite reasons that you won’t. This country really is fuc ked.
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A day that will live in infamy on 15:36 - Jul 23 with 1395 views
A day that will live in infamy on 15:23 - Jul 23 by Ned_Kennedys
Let's hope you remain disappointed then.
my disappointment is irrelevant. the point i was making was that an individuals perception of democracy seems inextricably linked to the result of the vote. "you lost, get over it". Because your side 'won' the referendum absolutely no evidence at all will convince you that if we have another referendum without leaving first that "it will be the end of democracy". we could have a video of Aaron Banks stuffing 2 million postal votes into a post box and you still wouldn't believe that the vote was flawed. the same is true the other way: if we leave on 'no deal', something not a single person voted for, democracy could also be perceived to be dead. the idea of true democracy exists in the mind of the voter.
Out of interest - do you think Boris will be forced to have a GE before October 31st?
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A day that will live in infamy on 15:37 - Jul 23 with 1392 views
A day that will live in infamy on 15:31 - Jul 23 by FDC
In that clip Behr is saying that John McDonnell and 'Corbynites' -- by which we have to assume he mains Labour activists who support Corbyn -- are now doing a cost v benefit calculation to determine whether it's time to give Corbyn the boot. That is untrue. And I'm not sure how he would claim to know this if it were, since he has no connection to either, and is hardly an investigative journalist. We'll have to disagree over Behr's analysis of Brexit and Labour.
I obviously wouldn't dispute there are people who feel very strongly about Brexit on either side who have the hump over Labour having tried to bridge the gap between them with a soft Brexit. But I would contend that actually the majority of the country (and certainly the majority of Labour supporters) would have been satisfied with a soft Brexit and moving on, but I guess we'll never know. I think your wish will be met and Labour will now have to adopt a remain position -- which will ultimately be damaging to their electoral chances I think, making a hard Brexit supporting Tory government more likely.
i actually meant his synopsis of the position of a lot of labour voters rather than people monitoring corbyn's popularity.
You may be right about a softer brexit although I don't really know what that is. The only way to leave with the GFA intact is to stay in the single market and customs union. Pretty sure a few on this board would say that isn't leaving and "the end of democracy!"
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A day that will live in infamy on 15:44 - Jul 23 with 1338 views
A day that will live in infamy on 15:44 - Jul 23 by LythamR
yeah but its not going to stop it really is it, just move some of it elsewhere
Where i work is going to become a car park and ill probably lose my job but hey! I just hope all the pro runway people getting a fuc king new flight path over their houses!
AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
A day that will live in infamy on 15:52 - Jul 23 by connell10
I thank you!
Apologies to BuckR obviously but that one did make me laugh. Which on a day when we've got a Boris Johnson thread, a Tom Watson thread, and a hijacked 'youth of today' thread is really valuable.
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A day that will live in infamy on 15:55 - Jul 23 with 1273 views
A day that will live in infamy on 15:53 - Jul 23 by Northernr
Apologies to BuckR obviously but that one did make me laugh. Which on a day when we've got a Boris Johnson thread, a Tom Watson thread, and a hijacked 'youth of today' thread is really valuable.
Your not wrong there mate!
AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
A day that will live in infamy on 15:53 - Jul 23 by Northernr
Apologies to BuckR obviously but that one did make me laugh. Which on a day when we've got a Boris Johnson thread, a Tom Watson thread, and a hijacked 'youth of today' thread is really valuable.
No apology needed! This thread surely cant get as good as the moon landing one
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A day that will live in infamy on 16:01 - Jul 23 with 1223 views
YEEHAA BORIS is finally in, now maybe i can vote for someone without having to wonder if its really worth the walk down to the local primary school. maybe now I will start to finally get MY COUNTRY BACK before its too late and im in my box. yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaa come on you rrrrrrsssssssss
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A day that will live in infamy on 16:29 - Jul 23 with 1147 views
A day that will live in infamy on 15:36 - Jul 23 by baldyoldgit
my disappointment is irrelevant. the point i was making was that an individuals perception of democracy seems inextricably linked to the result of the vote. "you lost, get over it". Because your side 'won' the referendum absolutely no evidence at all will convince you that if we have another referendum without leaving first that "it will be the end of democracy". we could have a video of Aaron Banks stuffing 2 million postal votes into a post box and you still wouldn't believe that the vote was flawed. the same is true the other way: if we leave on 'no deal', something not a single person voted for, democracy could also be perceived to be dead. the idea of true democracy exists in the mind of the voter.
Out of interest - do you think Boris will be forced to have a GE before October 31st?
I'm not sure calls for a second referendum are really about democracy. The new Lib Dem leader has said today that she wouldn't vote to leave in parliament even if leave won a second time:
Would you accept the result if people voted to leave again?
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A day that will live in infamy on 16:39 - Jul 23 with 1119 views
A day that will live in infamy on 16:29 - Jul 23 by Clive_Anderson
I'm not sure calls for a second referendum are really about democracy. The new Lib Dem leader has said today that she wouldn't vote to leave in parliament even if leave won a second time:
Would you accept the result if people voted to leave again?
although some on here won't believe me I probably would IF we could all agree on what leaving actually meant prior to the vote. Clearly any workable WA is not going to cut it - it's the only thing everyone can agree on. So the vote would have to be be remain Vs no deal. If after all the consequences of no deal are fully and explicitly explained and the vote is still to leave then so be it.
personally as I rarely travel abroad and work for myself in a services roll I'm not sure I'll be that much worse off. It's my kids future I was voting for.
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