| QPR and Football Hooliganism. 13:21 - Nov 11 with 7025 views | Esox_Lucius |
If Clive wishes to remove this thread I am more than happy for him to do so but it isn't about me trying to glorify football hooliganism, it honestly wasn't ever my 'thing' after I was hit with an orange with a razor blade in it around 1968 and later up at Maine Road when the Kippax began raining pieces of slate down at us and one R had his face sliced open.
My thinking is that I wanted to put a small piece together for AKUTR'S about the various crews that QPR had during those times and the bizarre rivalry they had among each other. I am hoping to speak to one or two of the faces whilst at games but I will have to rely on input from posters on here and other message boards for a wider picture. I am not really interested in stories of how (x) QPR mob ran such and such at a game but I am fascinated by the rivalry between the different QPR mobs which, considering that we aren't one of the 'big' clubs strikes me as quite bizzare and it seems to be centred around the Northolt/ Ruislip R's not getting on with any of the others.
As I say I have very little experience of this other than a meet up with mobs from a few of the other clubs who had had problems with the MIG's at Kennilworth Road during the ban so decided to hire a couple of mini buses and intercepted the Luton coaches in a service station on their way to either Ipswich or Norwich.
If people are uncomfortable about identifying themselves as being involved in what was criminal activity then broad brush descriptions are more than helpful enough but as I say, it isn't to glorify the fighting etc. it is to reach an understanding why QPR mobs didn't get on with each other.
There are a number of posters on here who can vouch that I am not old Bill or looking to get anyone stitched up
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| The grass is always greener. |
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| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 20:55 - Nov 11 with 2717 views | paulparker |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 14:31 - Nov 11 by qprxtc |
At Wembley in 1986 it all kicked off between Ladbroke Grove and Shepherds Bush (or something) and I missed the first goal.
Shame they stopped fighting as I could have missed the whole bastard thing if they’d carried on. |
You must have been near me as I saw a massive punch up before the first goal with one unlucky sod getting it in the head with the pointed end of a flag |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 07:04 - Nov 12 with 2542 views | distortR |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 17:13 - Nov 11 by LythamR |
"I have had a couple of people on another forum respond with the sort of info I am looking for"
What other forum! eh, EH! |
Call that a facking font? |  | | |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 17:59 - Nov 13 with 2122 views | kitkev |
i believe you are trying to understand the rivalryin essence it would mainly be territirial cmob were bush boys ladbroke grove were not mainly grove bush acton at each other cmob included white city and busg where as grove and latimer rd but i do know some latimer rd where with cmob | | | |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 20:14 - Nov 13 with 1978 views | loftboy |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 20:55 - Nov 11 by paulparker |
You must have been near me as I saw a massive punch up before the first goal with one unlucky sod getting it in the head with the pointed end of a flag |
I always thought that was a rogue oxford fan who was in our end, I vividly remember seeing someone getting the flag pole jabbed on their head. |  |
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| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 10:07 - Nov 14 with 1727 views | Esox_Lucius |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 17:59 - Nov 13 by kitkev |
i believe you are trying to understand the rivalryin essence it would mainly be territirial cmob were bush boys ladbroke grove were not mainly grove bush acton at each other cmob included white city and busg where as grove and latimer rd but i do know some latimer rd where with cmob |
Territorial rivalry seems to be at the bottom of it but I have been in correspondence with a few people who have been helping to shed light on this little curate's egg of a story and a number of other factors have come to light. Concensus appears to be that QPR lacked an outright leadership the way Millwall, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea etc. did. There were also some who were only in it for the clothes, music, women and drugs but if a fight came their way then they were up for it. There was also a mob from Essex and another fom SW London who were never really accepted but did on occasions join together with the more West London centric mobs. A more worrying aspect is that there was a large number of the hooligans who were only interested in the fighting and football was a pole to fly their flag on, these people would go and join up with crews from Chelsea and Arsenal predominantly but weren't averse to joining in with quite a few other clubs if there was to be a meet up.
There are still one or two other people I am hoping to catch up with at games but so far my thoughts are that QPR definitely had a hard core of people who included scrapping as part and parcel of football but there was a very distinct line and if you weren't interested in it then you weren't likely to get caught up in it. Many people have told me that so much of the whole vibe at that time was about the music, the clothes, the drugs, the alcohol ans, interestingly, the lack of racism among football hooligans. Apparently only Chelsea and Charlton had racism in their ranks whereas everyone else including Millwall & WHU all welcomed black members and the black members felt that they belonged somewhere compared to a lot of the overt racism that was evident in the media at the time. I appreciate that this has been a touchy subject for some to talk about and there are some of the "faces" from that time who don't want to talk about it any more and put it all behind them. I'd like to thank those who have contacted me and tried to put some sense into what is a complicated issue. I am not sure if I have the journalistic nous to convert these snippets into an article but I will be giving it a try. | |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 10:23 - Nov 14 with 1702 views | CiderwithRsie |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 10:07 - Nov 14 by Esox_Lucius |
Territorial rivalry seems to be at the bottom of it but I have been in correspondence with a few people who have been helping to shed light on this little curate's egg of a story and a number of other factors have come to light. Concensus appears to be that QPR lacked an outright leadership the way Millwall, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea etc. did. There were also some who were only in it for the clothes, music, women and drugs but if a fight came their way then they were up for it. There was also a mob from Essex and another fom SW London who were never really accepted but did on occasions join together with the more West London centric mobs. A more worrying aspect is that there was a large number of the hooligans who were only interested in the fighting and football was a pole to fly their flag on, these people would go and join up with crews from Chelsea and Arsenal predominantly but weren't averse to joining in with quite a few other clubs if there was to be a meet up.
There are still one or two other people I am hoping to catch up with at games but so far my thoughts are that QPR definitely had a hard core of people who included scrapping as part and parcel of football but there was a very distinct line and if you weren't interested in it then you weren't likely to get caught up in it. Many people have told me that so much of the whole vibe at that time was about the music, the clothes, the drugs, the alcohol ans, interestingly, the lack of racism among football hooligans. Apparently only Chelsea and Charlton had racism in their ranks whereas everyone else including Millwall & WHU all welcomed black members and the black members felt that they belonged somewhere compared to a lot of the overt racism that was evident in the media at the time. I appreciate that this has been a touchy subject for some to talk about and there are some of the "faces" from that time who don't want to talk about it any more and put it all behind them. I'd like to thank those who have contacted me and tried to put some sense into what is a complicated issue. I am not sure if I have the journalistic nous to convert these snippets into an article but I will be giving it a try. |
I'd be cautious tbh.
I think you are trying to produce some sort of sociological study of QPR hooligans, which might have some academic merit (your point about acceptance of black people in firms is interesting and probably contrary to what your average sociologist would expect.)
But if you don't have the resources of a uni sociology dept. behind you, you risk either unintentionally glorifying it (which you've been clear is not your aim) - even talking about the appeal of clothes, music etc can provoke a sort of false nostalgia from people who weren't there ("I wish we had something like that") or of just cocking it up.
If you could team up with an actual sociologist and stop them from making obvious ignorant errors, give them a bit of a way into the world of football, you might get somewhere. | | | |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 11:39 - Nov 14 with 1645 views | Esox_Lucius |
Thanks for the feedback Cider, I take your point about the "wish I'd been there brigade" and as I wasn't a part of that scene either musically (underground rock for me) or fashion wise (biker clobber back then) I don't feel caught up in vicarious thrills afforded by this particular football related problem so I won't be glorifying it. I hadn't realised about the disaffected black youth in mobs until it was told to me but I can see fully why they were as this was about the time Frank Pulley and his cronies were framing a lot of black kids around Ladbroke Grove, Holland Park and Shepherds Bush. I was also surprised to discover that the leader of the Millwall crew was a black guy, very much against the perceived wisdom of today.
I definitely don't have access to a uni level socio economic collaborator for this so it seems it might just wither on the vine as I am definitely not going to be naming names or pointing fingers so it feels like a bit of a wasted exercise. I naively thought there might be some genuine interest in throwing a little light on a strange situation which appears to be almost unique to QPR but I suppose when one considers all the different message boards there are and all the different fanzines there used to be perhaps I shouldn't be too surprised that QPR fans couldn't even work as a team back then  | |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 13:25 - Nov 14 with 1536 views | hubble |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 20:05 - Nov 11 by Esox_Lucius |
Not your old one honestly guv. I don't want the Manc R's on me case.  |
The identical thread Esox started "on another QPR messageboard" is utterly fascinating. Personally I find it ludicrous that people - particularly here on another QPR football forum - would wish to suppress this important slice of our social history. The discussion (on this other messageboard) is deeply revealing about social trends, attitudes, fashion, class and demographics, the fact that there was little racial division - in fact many people from ethnic minorities found solidarity in these 'firms'. Either we embrace and acknowledge ALL that we are, or we remain ignorant about ourselves and our society. That's my take on it anyway. |  |
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| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 14:28 - Nov 14 with 1461 views | CiderwithRsie |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 11:39 - Nov 14 by Esox_Lucius |
Thanks for the feedback Cider, I take your point about the "wish I'd been there brigade" and as I wasn't a part of that scene either musically (underground rock for me) or fashion wise (biker clobber back then) I don't feel caught up in vicarious thrills afforded by this particular football related problem so I won't be glorifying it. I hadn't realised about the disaffected black youth in mobs until it was told to me but I can see fully why they were as this was about the time Frank Pulley and his cronies were framing a lot of black kids around Ladbroke Grove, Holland Park and Shepherds Bush. I was also surprised to discover that the leader of the Millwall crew was a black guy, very much against the perceived wisdom of today.
I definitely don't have access to a uni level socio economic collaborator for this so it seems it might just wither on the vine as I am definitely not going to be naming names or pointing fingers so it feels like a bit of a wasted exercise. I naively thought there might be some genuine interest in throwing a little light on a strange situation which appears to be almost unique to QPR but I suppose when one considers all the different message boards there are and all the different fanzines there used to be perhaps I shouldn't be too surprised that QPR fans couldn't even work as a team back then |
I definitely don't have access to a uni level socio economic collaborator
Yeah, that's sociologists for you, can never find one when you want one but probably half a dozen of 'em will turn up on here and start dissecting the Corny Jokes thread when you don't. If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times. | | | |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 16:24 - Nov 14 with 1365 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 13:25 - Nov 14 by hubble |
The identical thread Esox started "on another QPR messageboard" is utterly fascinating. Personally I find it ludicrous that people - particularly here on another QPR football forum - would wish to suppress this important slice of our social history. The discussion (on this other messageboard) is deeply revealing about social trends, attitudes, fashion, class and demographics, the fact that there was little racial division - in fact many people from ethnic minorities found solidarity in these 'firms'. Either we embrace and acknowledge ALL that we are, or we remain ignorant about ourselves and our society. That's my take on it anyway. |
I am with you Hudster. |  | | |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 23:53 - Nov 14 with 1185 views | acricketer |
"important slice of our social history." Utter $hite.
Hooliganism is a symbol of hopelessness. A sign of helplessness and inadequacy that equates to "we hate ourselves , so why should everyone else be happy. Let's f00k 'em."
If your life and motivation as a human being operates at the level of hurt others because my life is $hit and I don't have any mates if I don't join up, then maim, injure, wound and kill (ooh! It was an accident . My knife did it)
How can hooligans love or empathsise or care or contribute to a better world?
Scary that these coonts reminisce. Cancer on all of them and their own. | | | |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 09:07 - Nov 15 with 1070 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Think the stick Esox is getting is a bit unfair.
Haven’t detected one once of glorification from him.
I think it’ll be a interesting subject for an article and I look forward to reading it. |  | | |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 11:35 - Nov 15 with 1018 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| QPR and Football Hooliganism. on 23:53 - Nov 14 by acricketer |
"important slice of our social history." Utter $hite.
Hooliganism is a symbol of hopelessness. A sign of helplessness and inadequacy that equates to "we hate ourselves , so why should everyone else be happy. Let's f00k 'em."
If your life and motivation as a human being operates at the level of hurt others because my life is $hit and I don't have any mates if I don't join up, then maim, injure, wound and kill (ooh! It was an accident . My knife did it)
How can hooligans love or empathsise or care or contribute to a better world?
Scary that these coonts reminisce. Cancer on all of them and their own. |
Something can be regretful and important you know!
Your last line suggests you aren't so caring yourself by the way. | | | |
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