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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss 23:29 - Nov 14 with 17392 viewsQPR_John

Labour have just announced free broadband for all implemented by nationalising part of BT. Just to be fair I do have an interest as I have BT shares bought through a sharesave scheme when I worked for them and also a pension from BT. Am I one of the rich Corbyn is after?
[Post edited 14 Nov 2019 23:30]
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 08:16 - Nov 18 with 1857 viewsCliveWilsonSaid

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 22:00 - Nov 17 by QPR_John

You miss my point. If the basic check (band 1) shows further treatment is required who pays for it. Is the policy funded on £22.70 per person or the higher prices for bands 2 and 3.


That is a very good question QPR John.

One that I don't have the answer to

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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 09:37 - Nov 18 with 1820 viewsBlackCrowe

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 18:23 - Nov 17 by BazzaInTheLoft

The ones usually outsourced to India you mean? The Labour Party and Trade Unions fought against outsourcing for years and I don’t remember anyone on here giving a fck. When it becomes a really tenuous barrel scraping stick to beat the Labour Party with people turn into Che Guevara.

Otherwise the National Broadband Service will still need all those departments you mentioned, in the same way the NHS or Highways Agency does.

Even if there was job losses (there won’t be) for every one lost I imagine quite a few would be created in rural areas.
[Post edited 17 Nov 2019 18:35]


Err no....I'm not talking about call centres, I'm talking about thousands of UK-based jobs in sales and marketing and then the related advertising agencies, marketing/pr firms that support them. I work with some of them.

Nice try to deflect it onto a tory rant about offshoring though.

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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 09:53 - Nov 18 with 1813 viewsLythamR

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 09:37 - Nov 18 by BlackCrowe

Err no....I'm not talking about call centres, I'm talking about thousands of UK-based jobs in sales and marketing and then the related advertising agencies, marketing/pr firms that support them. I work with some of them.

Nice try to deflect it onto a tory rant about offshoring though.


unfortunately you cant make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

I agree that these companies will loose jobs, however they have had their chance to provide a fast broadband service to the population of this country and they have cherry picked and left large parts of the population without a viable service.

of course its more complicated than that, commercial realities dictate these companies and its very expensive to provide to some outlying regions and BT Openreach have a big part in the failure, but what do we, leave it to them and hope or do something different

Providing fast internet accesible to all will provide so many benefits to all, not just benefit scroungers, more people would be able to work more effectively from home cutting vehicle traffic and commuters times, reduce stress and anxiety, carbon footprints, etc etc etc. The private companies are only interested in providing that for those of us they can make a profit from.

This can all be covered by cancelling HS2, fast broadband for all seems a much better deal to me than . slightly shorter journeys for the few with primarily london centric benefits.
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:42 - Nov 18 with 1785 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 09:37 - Nov 18 by BlackCrowe

Err no....I'm not talking about call centres, I'm talking about thousands of UK-based jobs in sales and marketing and then the related advertising agencies, marketing/pr firms that support them. I work with some of them.

Nice try to deflect it onto a tory rant about offshoring though.


Yeah I know what you meant. I worked in a call centre for Sky many years ago as a student.

Again, all government agencies use them so why would a broadband service be any different?. The DVLA has them, Highways Agency has them, the DWP has them, the NHS has them.

Government services still need marketing and customer services departments is my point.

Either way, when the QE2 opened and cut journeys from Wales by 2 hours, a fleet of ferries went out of business. Should we have fvcked it all off and abandoned the £billions that flowed in both directions and the 1000s of jobs that the Bridge brings?
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 12:16 - Nov 18 with 1724 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

This is the service you are trying so hard to protect!

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/sky-broadband-dow
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 12:19 - Nov 18 with 1702 views2Thomas2Bowles

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 12:16 - Nov 18 by BazzaInTheLoft

This is the service you are trying so hard to protect!

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/sky-broadband-dow


They fixed it fairly quick See other thread

Labour would take 4 months and 6 committee meetings. and be split on 4 or 5 day working per week for staff to do it
[Post edited 18 Nov 2019 12:22]

When willl this CV nightmare end
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:10 - Nov 18 with 1648 viewsstevec

Just trying to imagine an internet controlled by the Labour Party with Bazza, Jezza and Shami Chakrabati checking our 'woke' credentials on a daily basis.

Might as well start packing the bags and shuffle off to the local Gulag.
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:17 - Nov 18 with 1658 viewsLythamR

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:10 - Nov 18 by stevec

Just trying to imagine an internet controlled by the Labour Party with Bazza, Jezza and Shami Chakrabati checking our 'woke' credentials on a daily basis.

Might as well start packing the bags and shuffle off to the local Gulag.


But surely as Labour cant run a piss up in a brewery they wont be very effective at it, at least not as effective as the highly profit motivated corporations that currently manipulate and sell your data to pretty much anyone willing to pay

so thats all good then
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 14:11 - Nov 18 with 1610 viewsQPR_John

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:17 - Nov 18 by LythamR

But surely as Labour cant run a piss up in a brewery they wont be very effective at it, at least not as effective as the highly profit motivated corporations that currently manipulate and sell your data to pretty much anyone willing to pay

so thats all good then


Well at least Shami Chakrabati will not be worried about the authorities listening in on internet traffic as she will be one of them
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:00 - Nov 21 with 1471 viewsTacticalR

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 17:04 - Nov 15 by Clive_Anderson

Actually this has already been tried by the Australian Labor party, with predictable consequences.

It cost a fortune and provided worse service than the private sector at a much higher cost, leaving the taxpayer to foot the bill:

From: https://www.smh.com.au/national/australia-announces-vast-national-broadband-plan

To: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7573603/Telstra-chairman-slams-National


The article Clive_Anderson linked to shows that the broadband scheme was introduced by the Australian Liberal Party (the leading partner of the conservative Coalition).

Similarly, the first legislation to nationalise the railways was passed by the Conservative party in 1844:

'Yet the first Act of Parliament giving the British Government power to take over the railways was passed over 100 years ago, more than half a century before the petrol motor was invented or the Labour Party was born. The Railway Regulation Act was passed in 1844 under Sir Robert Peel’s Conservative Government and was introduced into the House of Commons by Gladstone, at that time a Conservative Free Trader and President of the Board of Trade. The immediate purpose of the Act was to force the railways to reduce charges in the interests of the whole body of capitalist manufacturers and traders, by holding over their heads the threat of nationalisation.'

Edgar Hardcastle, The Nationalisation of the Railways, (1947)
https://www.marxists.org/archive/hardcastle/1947/railways.htm

The question was asked somewhere in this thread 'Can nationalisation of one industry be used to fund other industries or for other purposes'? This was the very reason Bismark nationalised the railways:

'If Bismarck, not under any economic compulsion, took over for the State the chief Prussian lines, simply to be the better able to have them in hand in case of war, to bring up the railway employees as voting cattle for the Government, and especially to create for himself a new source of income independent of parliamentary votes - this was, in no sense, a socialistic measure, directly or indirectly, consciously or unconsciously. Otherwise, the Royal Maritime Company, the Royal porcelain manufacture, and even the regimental tailor of the army would also be socialistic institutions.'

Frederick Engels, Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, (1880)
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm

One book that tries look beyond the labels and make a contemporary analysis of state intervention is Ha-joon Chang's 'Bad Samaritans'. Chang is a native of South Korea, a Keynesian, and currently Professor of Economics at Cambridge University. He considers many aspects of the free market to be a ficton, used by the US to assert its power:

'Moreover, even when it shifted to freer (if not absolutely free) trade, the US government promoted key industries by another means, namely, public funding of R&D. Between the 1950s and the mid-1990s, US federal government funding accounted for 50-70% of the country's total R&D funding, which is far above the figure of around 20%, found in such 'government-led' countries as Japan and Korea. Without federal government funding for R&D, the US would not have been able to maintain its technological lead over the rest of the world in key industries like computers, semiconductors, life sciences, the internet and aerospace.'

Ha-joon Chang, Bad Samaritans, The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism, (2008)

On a related note...now that the dust has settled on the Thatcher era it's become obvious that not simply have state monopolies have been replaced with private monopolies, but that in many cases we have monstrous hybrids where the private companies (such as G4S, Carillion) draw all their revenue from the state, or where Branson can bail out of railway contracts when he's decided that he's not making enough profit (but can still demand to be included in future bids for state contracts).

Air hostess clique

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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 14:15 - Nov 21 with 1422 viewsrobith

Not followed the thread, but do find it amusing as someone who works in advertising people being worried about the government controlling the internet given a) GCHQ is already spying on you non stop and b) the incredible amount of personal information you're all voluntarily handing over to private compnay marketeersand ad tech firms already
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 14:55 - Nov 21 with 1400 viewsessextaxiboy

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 14:15 - Nov 21 by robith

Not followed the thread, but do find it amusing as someone who works in advertising people being worried about the government controlling the internet given a) GCHQ is already spying on you non stop and b) the incredible amount of personal information you're all voluntarily handing over to private compnay marketeersand ad tech firms already


It depends how the Government of the day use the information they can obtain and what they do with it . There are laws governing private companies and their use of data .

The other aspect is access to the Internet . If I dont pay my bill my ISP will turn me off and can adjust my connection speed depending on how much I pay .

Whats to stop a Government turning off dissenting people or organisations ?
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 15:06 - Nov 21 with 1380 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 14:55 - Nov 21 by essextaxiboy

It depends how the Government of the day use the information they can obtain and what they do with it . There are laws governing private companies and their use of data .

The other aspect is access to the Internet . If I dont pay my bill my ISP will turn me off and can adjust my connection speed depending on how much I pay .

Whats to stop a Government turning off dissenting people or organisations ?


Ofcom.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 15:21 - Nov 21 with 1364 viewsessextaxiboy

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 15:06 - Nov 21 by BazzaInTheLoft

Ofcom.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom


"Our duties come from Parliament. Our priority is to look after you, and we sometimes do this by promoting competition among companies we regulate."
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 15:33 - Nov 21 with 1357 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 15:21 - Nov 21 by essextaxiboy

"Our duties come from Parliament. Our priority is to look after you, and we sometimes do this by promoting competition among companies we regulate."


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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 16:00 - Nov 21 with 1329 viewsrobith

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 14:55 - Nov 21 by essextaxiboy

It depends how the Government of the day use the information they can obtain and what they do with it . There are laws governing private companies and their use of data .

The other aspect is access to the Internet . If I dont pay my bill my ISP will turn me off and can adjust my connection speed depending on how much I pay .

Whats to stop a Government turning off dissenting people or organisations ?


Do you have Sky TV? If so the first ad in each break is being specifically targeted towards you based on your postcode, your credit history and your mastercard purchases
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 16:24 - Nov 21 with 1307 views2Thomas2Bowles

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 16:00 - Nov 21 by robith

Do you have Sky TV? If so the first ad in each break is being specifically targeted towards you based on your postcode, your credit history and your mastercard purchases


Tampons?

When willl this CV nightmare end
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 17:40 - Nov 21 with 1257 viewscolinallcars

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 15:06 - Nov 21 by BazzaInTheLoft

Ofcom.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom


Sure I read somewhere that Labour plans to abolish Ofsted, the body that oversees schools. No mention of Ofsteddybearspicnic the body that oversees children's songs.
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 19:56 - Nov 21 with 1197 viewsQPR_John

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 16:00 - Nov 21 by robith

Do you have Sky TV? If so the first ad in each break is being specifically targeted towards you based on your postcode, your credit history and your mastercard purchases


And in the next ad break a similarly targeted ad from a different company will be shown.
[Post edited 21 Nov 2019 19:57]
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 20:31 - Nov 21 with 1179 viewsessextaxiboy

Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 16:00 - Nov 21 by robith

Do you have Sky TV? If so the first ad in each break is being specifically targeted towards you based on your postcode, your credit history and your mastercard purchases


Jack Daniels !

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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 20:58 - Nov 21 with 1161 viewscolinallcars

Dignitas ?
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