| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss 23:29 - Nov 14 with 17625 views | QPR_John |
Labour have just announced free broadband for all implemented by nationalising part of BT. Just to be fair I do have an interest as I have BT shares bought through a sharesave scheme when I worked for them and also a pension from BT. Am I one of the rich Corbyn is after? [Post edited 14 Nov 2019 23:30]
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| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:26 - Nov 15 with 1565 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:12 - Nov 15 by CiderwithRsie |
Are you seriously suggesting that the proposal is not to provide world class broadband as done in Korea (which is what McDonnell was talking about on the radio this morning, and which I could happily support, if done properly) but to obtain a cash cow for the NHS?
What other profit-making companies do you object to making a profit, and how many of them do you propose to nationalise, and what will they fund?
Tesco made £2.2 bn last year. Bastards! How about nationalising them to pay for benefits for the poor bastards who have to shop there? |
Wether the money that this saves / generates goes into the NHS, Broadband infrastructure, Defence, or whatever, makes no difference to me. It will be going back into a public service which is the important thing.
Public services should not be privately owned (in my opinion) especially when they a) make money b) belonged to us in the first place.
That really is the extent of what I’m saying. I brought the profitability up because there were some on here asking how this would be paid for. [Post edited 15 Nov 2019 10:27]
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| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:26 - Nov 15 with 1563 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:21 - Nov 15 by BuckR |
Again you've missed the point. Labour have costed the rollout at £20billion. The Cheif Exec of BT has already said you are looking at almost double that if you were to do it. Where is the other £20billion coming from?
Also regarding the cost of maintenance I refer you to a quote from an article this morning in the financial times
Nick Delfas, an analyst with Redburn, said implementing the policy could be difficult. “There are some challenges for Labour,” he said. “Nationalisation and state aid of this sort are illegal under EU law, and the majority of the party wants to remain in the EU.
“The maintenance cost of a national fibre network will be at least £1bn-£2bn not £230m as claimed. And the public sector will be exposed to build cost overruns, as with HS2 and Crossrail. Finally TalkTalk and Virgin Media would go bankrupt.” [Post edited 15 Nov 2019 10:23]
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Nationalisation and state aid of this sort are illegal under EU law, and the majority of the party wants to remain in the EU.
This, you can't have both. |  |
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| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:38 - Nov 15 with 1546 views | gazza1 |
Simple madness by the Labour party.......
I wonder what all the other providers will think?? Sky, Virgin, etc, etc, etc.....
Nothing is free in this world. | | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:42 - Nov 15 with 1538 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:38 - Nov 15 by gazza1 |
Simple madness by the Labour party.......
I wonder what all the other providers will think?? Sky, Virgin, etc, etc, etc.....
Nothing is free in this world. |
It’s only one part of BT (Openreach) that is actually being nationalised so wouldn’t affect those providers very much. Those providers already pay BT for this service anyway. They would just be paying the state (You) instead. [Post edited 15 Nov 2019 10:49]
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| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:42 - Nov 15 with 1536 views | FDC |
1. We are allowed to have nice things.
2. Compared to most advanced economies, this country currently has extremely poor broadband connectivity. This shouldn't be a radical proposal.
3. If this shifts the conversation to "well if we're going to have free broadband why don't we have free XYZ", I'm fine with that. |  | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:49 - Nov 15 with 1513 views | stevec |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:21 - Nov 15 by BuckR |
Again you've missed the point. Labour have costed the rollout at £20billion. The Cheif Exec of BT has already said you are looking at almost double that if you were to do it. Where is the other £20billion coming from?
Also regarding the cost of maintenance I refer you to a quote from an article this morning in the financial times
Nick Delfas, an analyst with Redburn, said implementing the policy could be difficult. “There are some challenges for Labour,” he said. “Nationalisation and state aid of this sort are illegal under EU law, and the majority of the party wants to remain in the EU.
“The maintenance cost of a national fibre network will be at least £1bn-£2bn not £230m as claimed. And the public sector will be exposed to build cost overruns, as with HS2 and Crossrail. Finally TalkTalk and Virgin Media would go bankrupt.” [Post edited 15 Nov 2019 10:23]
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Spot on, and shows how Jez and his followers don't give a flying toss about the job losses in those affected companies and they're huge.
Also, has anyone ever met anyone who says 'I don't have Broadband as I can't afford it'.
I'm sure there will be a few but hardly enough to blow 20 bill on and some.
Most get their broadband through mobile phones these days. I got an iphone for £25 a month which equates to £600 over the 24 month contract. For that I get a phone (which bought individually would cost North of £600 in it's own right), so effectively getting broadband for free. If broadband was then supplied free as per Labour policy, I'd still get charged North of £600 for the phone instead, it's not like the companies who supply the phones are suddenly going to have an attack of morality, they'll still want £25 a month but for the phone instead.
Aside of the phone, the vast majority get their broadband via their work environment, so no benefit to them either.
It's as if Labour have no policy other than chucking stuff in for free that most of us access for 'free' already (NHS) or would make no discernible difference anyway (Broadband).
What Labour don't tell you about are the consequences of their idea of free broadband, that is, we will all end up paying through the nose for content instead and that you won't want. |  | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:49 - Nov 15 with 1511 views | Clive_Anderson |
So Labour's plan is to borrow money to buy a profit making business and then give away the product that makes them a profit.
So now the government has a massive loss making business and a load of extra debt to service. As well as the enormous unfunded BT pension liabilities.
This will somehow make us all billions that can be spent on even more "free" stuff.
I somehow wonder how Corbyn managed to get his 2 grade Es at A level. [Post edited 15 Nov 2019 11:03]
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| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:50 - Nov 15 with 1510 views | MrSheen |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:42 - Nov 15 by FDC |
1. We are allowed to have nice things.
2. Compared to most advanced economies, this country currently has extremely poor broadband connectivity. This shouldn't be a radical proposal.
3. If this shifts the conversation to "well if we're going to have free broadband why don't we have free XYZ", I'm fine with that. |
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/130842/International-Broadb
Broadband connectivity good by European if not Asian standards, costs less so. Data usage high. |  | | |
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| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:54 - Nov 15 with 1505 views | FDC |
The proposal is for full-fibre broadband, considered necessary to future-proof the network. The UK scores last in that doc? | | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:57 - Nov 15 with 1501 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:49 - Nov 15 by stevec |
Spot on, and shows how Jez and his followers don't give a flying toss about the job losses in those affected companies and they're huge.
Also, has anyone ever met anyone who says 'I don't have Broadband as I can't afford it'.
I'm sure there will be a few but hardly enough to blow 20 bill on and some.
Most get their broadband through mobile phones these days. I got an iphone for £25 a month which equates to £600 over the 24 month contract. For that I get a phone (which bought individually would cost North of £600 in it's own right), so effectively getting broadband for free. If broadband was then supplied free as per Labour policy, I'd still get charged North of £600 for the phone instead, it's not like the companies who supply the phones are suddenly going to have an attack of morality, they'll still want £25 a month but for the phone instead.
Aside of the phone, the vast majority get their broadband via their work environment, so no benefit to them either.
It's as if Labour have no policy other than chucking stuff in for free that most of us access for 'free' already (NHS) or would make no discernible difference anyway (Broadband).
What Labour don't tell you about are the consequences of their idea of free broadband, that is, we will all end up paying through the nose for content instead and that you won't want. |
‘What Labour don't tell you about are the consequences of their idea of free broadband, that is, we will all end up paying through the nose for content instead and that you won't want’
Your PornHub subscription will be fine Steve. | | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:11 - Nov 15 with 1470 views | davman |
The problem with Nationalisation is that those providing the service will be Civil Servants.
If anyone has to deal with those bunch of amateurs on a daily basis like I do, you should know why it is an appalling idea. |  |
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| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:17 - Nov 15 with 1460 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:11 - Nov 15 by davman |
The problem with Nationalisation is that those providing the service will be Civil Servants.
If anyone has to deal with those bunch of amateurs on a daily basis like I do, you should know why it is an appalling idea. |
Other than the logo on their shirts nothing will change.
Brain surgery on the NHS is currently conducted by civil servants. The people who drive your Tube trains are civil servants. [Post edited 15 Nov 2019 11:17]
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| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:28 - Nov 15 with 1434 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:17 - Nov 15 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Other than the logo on their shirts nothing will change.
Brain surgery on the NHS is currently conducted by civil servants. The people who drive your Tube trains are civil servants. [Post edited 15 Nov 2019 11:17]
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How is that even an argument?
No-ones saying there aren't very good competent Civil Servants are they? |  | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:30 - Nov 15 with 1430 views | MrSheen |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:54 - Nov 15 by FDC |
The proposal is for full-fibre broadband, considered necessary to future-proof the network. The UK scores last in that doc? |
Why is fibre to the home so necessary? UK scores very well for speed and data downloads despite the lack of that fibre final connection. Other European markets are cable TV strongholds, which provides the last bit, whereas the UK relies more on satellite. 5G will be a cheaper last mile connection to a fibre backbone in a couple of years anyway. | | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:35 - Nov 15 with 1420 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:28 - Nov 15 by CroydonCaptJack |
How is that even an argument?
No-ones saying there aren't very good competent Civil Servants are they? |
Yeah, Davman did. | | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:39 - Nov 15 with 1409 views | BuckR |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:57 - Nov 15 by BazzaInTheLoft |
‘What Labour don't tell you about are the consequences of their idea of free broadband, that is, we will all end up paying through the nose for content instead and that you won't want’
Your PornHub subscription will be fine Steve. |
No reply then? | | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:40 - Nov 15 with 1404 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:39 - Nov 15 by BuckR |
No reply then? |
To what? The accusation that content prices will go up?
I’m not sure how to answer it because it’s unfounded speculation. | | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:46 - Nov 15 with 1384 views | BuckR |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:40 - Nov 15 by BazzaInTheLoft |
To what? The accusation that content prices will go up?
I’m not sure how to answer it because it’s unfounded speculation. |
Standard | | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:50 - Nov 15 with 1378 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
I thought political threads were banned on here.... | |
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| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:53 - Nov 15 with 1369 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:46 - Nov 15 by BuckR |
Standard |
Not sure what it’s got to do with Labour or a free broadband service if Amazon or Netflix want to raise their prices?
If you want Labour to nationalise Netflix then you’ve got my support brother. | | | |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 12:01 - Nov 15 with 1354 views | davman |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:35 - Nov 15 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Yeah, Davman did. |
Yep, I did - my exposure to Civil Servants suggests this is the case. I know that there are loads of good individuals out there, but the departments and organisations I deal with are not great.
...but I also know I only deal with a small proportion.
...and no I am not going to tell you which departments 
Your comment on pay may be true of the AVERAGE wage, but I do not see that when we talk about technologists - the Government pay lots to tech companies for expertise that they do not have... | |
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| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 12:12 - Nov 15 with 1341 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 10:42 - Nov 15 by FDC |
1. We are allowed to have nice things.
2. Compared to most advanced economies, this country currently has extremely poor broadband connectivity. This shouldn't be a radical proposal.
3. If this shifts the conversation to "well if we're going to have free broadband why don't we have free XYZ", I'm fine with that. |
This.
Forget the Orkney Islands. I live in West London and have no access to Fibre Broadband in my block of flats. There’s obviously something very wrong with the current set-up.
On a downside I guess this will mean even more digging up of our streets. As if that were needed! [Post edited 15 Nov 2019 12:15]
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| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 12:18 - Nov 15 with 1322 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 12:01 - Nov 15 by davman |
Yep, I did - my exposure to Civil Servants suggests this is the case. I know that there are loads of good individuals out there, but the departments and organisations I deal with are not great.
...but I also know I only deal with a small proportion.
...and no I am not going to tell you which departments
Your comment on pay may be true of the AVERAGE wage, but I do not see that when we talk about technologists - the Government pay lots to tech companies for expertise that they do not have... |
Until May this year I was a civil servant for 12 years.
My company won awards for efficiency most years during that time, and I was paid significantly more than my private sector counterparts, in some cases by as much as 25%. I had 52 days holiday a year and free travel. The directors of this company were also civil servants and kept making the papers because of their huge salaries.
I left because I was bored, but have taken a job for a private organisation in which my pay and holidays are a lot less, and I pay for my commute every day.
Some of the highly trained and technical employees we had were regularly seconded to places like Hong Kong, China, Sydney, and New York to set up or maintain similar industries there. At any time they could have left to work for one of the many private companies available, but quite frankly it wasn’t worth it and most people stay until they retire.
Our Rail industry (a highly technical one) is run by the German and Dutch state right now and arn’t run out by our own ‘native’ private companies. [Post edited 15 Nov 2019 12:37]
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